That Thing You Do! (1996): Tom Hanks, Tom Everett Scott, Liv Tyler

[00:00:00] Remember when getting your song on the radio could turn four guys from Erie into overnight celebrities? We're heading back to 1964 by way of 1996 for The Wonders, Playtone Records, and a song we've willingly had stuck in our heads for 30 years.

[00:00:14] Welcome to the No More Late Fees Podcast. I'm Danielle. And I'm Jackie. And we're just two best friends and ex-blockbuster employees rewatching some of the best and worst movies from the late 90s and early 2000s. This week we're revisiting the 1996 poppy dramedy That Thing You Do.

[00:00:44] But before we dive in, let's get into some... Housekeeping! If you love the podcast and you want to support us, here's how you can. Turn your list over to nomorelatefees.redbubble.com and shop No More Late Fees merch to add to your wardrobe.

[00:01:04] Back for an unbelievable seventh appearance, it's our longtime friend Nick proving that no matter how much we give him a hard time, he hasn't sung I Quit to Us Yet. Hello. Hello. I think I have, actually. I vaguely remember doing that, but I'm still on back again. We just rip it up. You put in your resignation letter every time. I feel like you sent us the meme more than once in our James Bond superfans group.

[00:01:33] Oh, this is great. This is great. I'm so happy to be here again. Well, if you want to get to know Nick better, if you've missed his other six episodes, please go check them out. He's on Monsters, Inc., Clerks, GoldenEye, Life Aquatic, Heartbreakers, and Almost Famous. And also, check out this week's bonus episode because we are going to be having a fictional movie musical festival situation going on

[00:02:02] where we are picking our favorite fictional bands and where we would place them at a festival. So it's a lot of fun. All right, Jackie, tell us what That Thing You Do is about. So in 1964, Erie, Pennsylvania. Erie, Pennsylvania is mentioned more times in this movie than, like, I think any location in any movie ever. Aspiring drummer Guy Patterson gets his big break when he fills in for a local band at a talent show

[00:02:29] and speeds up their ballad, turning That Thing You Do into an instant crowd pleaser. Soon, the Oneaters become the wonders, sign with Playtone Records, and trade appliance stores and local gigs for screaming fans, matching suits, radio play, and a whirlwind trip up the charts. It stars Tom Everett Scott, Liv Tyler, Jonathan Seich. I should look these names up before I have to say them.

[00:02:57] Steve Zahn, Ethan Embry, Tom Hanks, Charlize Theron. It was written and directed by Tom Hanks, and you can currently watch it on Prime Video. But before we start, let's get into our ratings rewind. So, you know the drill. The drill before we get into the movie will reveal the rating our UI 2K versions of ourselves would give. Then at the end, we'll see if our current selves agree with our initial rating. Our scale consists of would buy it, would buy it again. The best would play on repeat.

[00:03:27] Five-day rental. Would watch again. Two-day rental. Okay, but nothing to write home about. And same-day rental. Trash. Last place at the talent show. I was just going to do, I quit. All right, Nick. What was your Y2K rating of this movie? Easily would buy it, would buy it again. I watched it because I pulled the DVD off my shelf. Yeah. And kind of like, it's a theme that we talk about.

[00:03:55] I was not as, I didn't have as, still developing it, but didn't have as critical an eye for like social cultural things. As much as I do now, I had much less then. So Y2K me was definitely would buy it, would buy it again. I absolutely love this movie. Jackie? Same. I owned it. I had the song on many burned CDs. DVD.

[00:04:24] I love this movie, but I checked. I don't own it. Ooh! I know. I don't. I don't own this movie. So five-day for you? Five-day. I'm sorry to ruin the streak. It's not because I don't love it. I just didn't buy it. And I remember what the DVD cover looked like. It was like a beige background and it had the snappy one. That's the one that I remember seeing. Hmm.

[00:04:52] Well, tell us about the box office, Danielle. It came out October 4th, 1996. The budget was $26 million. It made $34.5 million worldwide. The box office was pretty tight. This was a crazy run. Yeah. So at the box office, we had at number one, the First Wise Club. Number two, the Glimmer Man. Number three, That Thing You Do. Number four, D3, The Mighty Ducks. And five, Extreme Measures.

[00:05:22] I don't know about Extreme Measures, but I was seated for a good amount of these movies. The film's entire reported worldwide gross came from its domestic theatrical run. So there's not anything international to pull from. Interesting. It kind of makes sense, though, given the story. It doesn't seem like something that would have massive international appeal. Yeah. Yeah. It's Tom Hanks. Who knows? I don't know. Also, yeah. Critics. Okay.

[00:05:49] So Kenneth Turin of Los Angeles Times praised Hank's ability to make the movie upbeat without allowing it to become overly sentimental. He described it as cheerful and high-spirited and noted that the movie deliberately avoids pretending to offer profound insights into its characters or era. Facts. But I guess the tone of the way you say those words really matters. Yes. Are we saying that's a good thing or a bad thing here, Kenneth?

[00:06:18] It's something. So Roger Ebert, Lil Raj from Chicago Sometimes, gave the movie three out of four stars. He praised the film for remembering its 1964 setting with great warmth, particularly its depiction of records, radio, Beatlemania, and the machinery surrounding a one-hit wonder. Lil Raj is one of those people that remembers with rose-colored glasses.

[00:06:47] It's funny because in some ways, yes, in some ways, not. Because when we did Roll Bounce, he specifically talked about how accurate it was for that era and growing up in the Chicago area. So he's aware, but is he? I don't know. Still a boomer. Yeah. Before we get into the cast and crew, let's hear a message from our pod pals.

[00:07:23] If you like small-town mystery, crazy news, and wild history, then the Florida Men on Florida Man podcast is for you. Each week, Josh Mills and Wayne McCarty bring you the absolute best Florida has to offer. So if you're looking for a show that's safe for the family, but funny enough to help you escape everyday life, then listen to the Florida Men on Florida Man podcast. That's Florida Men, plural, on Florida Man podcast.

[00:07:54] This was Tom Hanks' directorial debut. He also wrote this movie while he was on his press tour for Forrest Gump. He wrote the screenplay in 30 days. Honestly, the language didn't feel... It didn't stand out. I was like, oh, what the hell is this? I thought it flowed. I think he did a good job. Did he direct or write anything else after this? I don't know.

[00:08:23] I know he named his production company Playtone after this movie, but I will look to see if he has any other writing credits or director credits. Both one of his sons, Colin Hanks, and his daughter, Elizabeth, have cameos in the movie. Colin was the usher who seats Faye during the Hollywood portion of the movie. His daughter is in a background dress scene. And then his wife, Rita Wilson, also has a role. She plays the waitress, Marguerite.

[00:08:53] And funny enough, her birth name is Margarita. And so she was named very close to her birth name, which is interesting. I never thought Rita was short for something. I just thought that was her name. I have another... Oh, I was going to say another interesting production note. Steve Zahn was already a musician. He was already... Which it kind of tracks a lot of actors and are performers kind of in a broad range of things. You know, they kind of learn a lot of skills.

[00:09:21] But the entire cast learned how to perform the song. So they could... And actually, I remember seeing a clip of like on an anniversary. Like they got back together and played the song again live, like on their instruments. So each member of the cast was able to perform the song on their instrument, which is kind of cool. I remember when like this was on HBO. Because I was like, oh, I didn't have the DVD. How do I know this? Have this knowledge of behind the scenes?

[00:09:46] And I remember on HBO that they were showing how like they all learned the instruments. But Tom Everett Scott was actually pretty good with... If I recall correctly, he was pretty good with the drumming. So I thought that was cool that they all learned how to play their instruments. And speaking of Tom Everett Scott, this was his film debut. Hanks was hesitant to cast him because he thought Scott resembled a younger version of him, himself. And his wife, Rita, helped convince him to cast Scott.

[00:10:16] I remember when he came out and in this movie and everyone kept saying that. And now rewatching it, I'm like, you're giving yourself a lot of props, Tom. I'm just saying. Peter Scolari appears as Troy Chesterfield. Scolari previously starred along Hanks on the television series Booz and Buddies. But Buzz and Buddies, and I love that show.

[00:10:42] And I was really sad that he stopped doing TV after this. But did you ever see that show, Jackie? Yeah, mom used to watch it all the time. In this film, Ethan Embry plays Ethan Embry. I feel like it's a very Ethan Embry-esque role. And he's perfect. But his character has no official name. And in the credits, he's listed simply as TB player. TB standing for the bass.

[00:11:09] He's just, and he's always just referred to as where's your bass player? Who's the bass player? He's the bass player. I love that. I remember that. I love that. Yeah. Who's in it for like three minutes. But like, Ethan Embry has like a whole side story arc and everything. And just gets the bass player.

[00:11:34] And it feels like, to me at least, like just, you know, my cursory knowledge of music scenes is kind of like, because bass players tend to very much be interchangeable. Like, they just, they're just holding it down in the back and nobody notices them. And they're always just the bass player. I don't know. It's very rare in a rock band where the bass player is the hottest one. Mark Hoppus. Sorry. I said it's very rare. I didn't say it didn't happen.

[00:12:04] I mean, you're kind of cheating if it's a trio. Like, there's just not a lot of competition there. But Charlize Theron was the very first actress to audition for the film and the first person officially cast as guys left behind girlfriend Tina. I would have left him for the dentist too. I'm sorry. That man was coming out the seams in that outfit. But good riddance though. She was the worst.

[00:12:30] Oh, well, in the realm of unnecessary characters in a movie, she's pretty high up there. However, they thought she was gorgeous and they were like, they probably kept on saying, let's give her more. Because how much more can you show disinterested? Yes. Yeah. And I think they needed the Tina character to be especially shitty to make the Fae character look especially great.

[00:12:59] Like, by contrast. Yeah. I think the entire movie is, yes, we have the band, but like the love story part of it is just nuggets to get to how these two people get to each other in the end because she is the catalyst essentially for that. Because when you're first looking at it, you don't look at Fae.

[00:13:22] I believe you don't look at Fae and Guy as a potential of anything until she sees Fae and meets Fae and she automatically, like they have a whole girl world conversation essentially because that girl was not interested in seeing her man go play at this damn show or whatever until she realizes there's this other girl there.

[00:13:46] And she makes a comment to Guy, oh, her and her boyfriend, Jimmy are like so good together. What you already tell that she is intimidated by this woman being around her boyfriend. Even the boyfriend that she's not interested in. But I think it's the first nugget that puts it in the viewer's mind that those, she's doing this because maybe they could be together. Yeah.

[00:14:12] So I think that's her vehicle essentially why she's there. So let's, let's jump into it. So we meet Guy Patterson. He's working his family's appliance store in Erie, Pennsylvania that they remind us of often. He's just kind of a laid back dude, likes jazz, wants to play music. And his dad expects him to be like serious, going to take over the business someday, quit leaving the fucking light on.

[00:14:42] And so he's kind of at, not at odds with his dad. His dad just has very stringent expectations of Guy and Guy is just not living up to those. Because he really doesn't give a shit about appliances. There's a lot of good character development in like the opening credits here. Like just, you kind of get a lot of that context and like guys playing drums to the Del Paxton record. You're just kind of like, okay, like you kind of get a sense of who these people are in like five minutes. Kind of.

[00:15:13] Yep. Like storytelling. And then we meet the rest of the band. They're friendly with Guy, but Guy at this point is not in their band. So it's Jimmy, lead singer and songwriter, it seems. Is it Chad is the drummer played by Giovanni Ravisi? As we had mentioned before, Ethan Embry is simply the bass player. And then we have, is it Lenny? Yes. Lenny.

[00:15:40] So what it seems like is that they're all, they all know Guy, maybe probably from school, but it seems like Lenny and Guy are actual friends. Because there's like a lot of references to things of Guy's life. Like he knows Guy's uncle. He knows about like that, all the things about his life. So it seems like they're really good friends outside of like him being in his band. So. Right. And it seems like the other guys don't really love Guy for whatever reason.

[00:16:09] Like Jimmy seems to not really care about Guy. Like they just like, I don't like it. It felt like there was beef there, like from the jump. But Lenny kind of seemed to have a rapport with him. Yeah. I think the bass player doesn't care. It's really just Jimmy. Yeah. And when I watched this movie, and I think previously Jimmy is made to be a bad guy, right? Like kind of like a villain.

[00:16:33] But rewatching the movie, the things that I would fault him for is how he treats Faye. Like he's a shitty boyfriend. But he is very, it's interesting that in a lot of movies, especially about music, the person who is very dedicated to the craft really wants the band to go somewhere. And his focus on that is demonized. Yeah. He was just driven and passionate about his music and his band.

[00:17:00] And I think because like, it's probably not that common of a story, but it's a tragic one where like the devotion to the art makes you shitty at relationships. And so like, you know, it's not the devotion to the art that's being villainized. It's the fact that like that becomes sort of a cause and effect of his devotion to the art makes him not the greatest band member and not the greatest boyfriend because he's so dedicated to the craft. I think, I don't know, he could be nicer to the band.

[00:17:30] Like he's devoted, but he doesn't have to be a dick about it. And his devotion to the music doesn't, two things can exist at the same time. He doesn't have to be an asshole to his girlfriend who has literally been dragging and supporting this band. She's not just like the girlfriend and she comes, she's a part of the band and that's put into the movie a lot.

[00:17:51] But I do think that like now with the lens of everything that's happening, him asking these questions about first, he's like, I'm not signing just anything. He, he asked like, when can we, like, he's not falling. Record more music. Right. He's not falling for that. The fact that this is a machine, he has been put into this machine. And every time he asked questions, everyone's upset and there it's because they're just in for the ride.

[00:18:21] And let me tell you, this premise, Cheetah Girls, the first movie, you laugh, but this is what happens. Yeah. In the, in that movie. And I think it's, it makes sense that the premise would kind of track, because I think this is kind of how the industry operates in a lot of ways. It's like, this is the story of a lot of artists. And it is interesting.

[00:18:42] Speaking of the machine of like, I remember the first few times that I watched this, like, and even in this one, I kind of, again, two things can be true at the same time, but I was noticing like Mr. White, we'll get there. But like Mr. White, Tom Hanks' character, felt like this sort of like stage guy who kind of sees everyone and sees everything and kind of knows how to make this all work and kind of knows the right alchemy. And he is kind of that.

[00:19:06] But I also recognize like his sort of alchemy for getting success out of this band might have been the self-fulfilling prophecy that kind of ran Jimmy sort of off the cliff. Like, that was part of his alchemy. So like, in a way, like, Tom Hanks is also a bit of a villain in this movie, because he kind of like, he clocked Jimmy immediately for who he is. And then just like, you know, just got the one hit out of him and then drove him away.

[00:19:33] Like he was part of that machine that broke Jimmy. I don't think Jimmy broke. I think there's a few things that could have happened. They had a hit, right? And I think he already, like you said, I think he looked at the lens of everything, the lay of the land and knew where the pieces were going to fall because all of the other three band members were not. This was a fun summer for them.

[00:20:00] So he was like, you know what, let me launch this because this is a machine. We build it, tear it apart, build it, tear it apart. And when you tear apart the bands, you pull from the talent and you build something else. Because at the end, we find out that Jimmy had a million, like how many gold records and was still with the same labels. So this was a way to get him cheap under contract.

[00:20:26] Because if you had pulled Jimmy aside and said, you're the talent, which Jimmy already knew, you already know your worth, right? He already knew that. Let me get him in on this contract with these other idiots. And then I can pull the talent out. Guy was great, but guy was smart, but the easiest one to kind of manipulate. Yeah. Right. He could have never gone. If you just tell, yeah, you just tell a guy he gets to play drums and he's in. Right.

[00:20:56] Wear these sunglasses. Cool. Am I playing drums? I'm playing drums? Cool. And you notice that he kept saying, you're the smart one. He's not. Jimmy was the smart one. Jimmy was the talent. Jimmy was the point of this whole thing. But you can't extract that talent. So now you've got Jimmy in this contract, right? Because he came in with the entire band because they sold him on this one hit. And you can't set. Now he's got it. He's got it.

[00:21:25] He's locked into this contract. He has to play it along. The other guys, they probably just released them. No big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Because Jimmy was always the point. I am just now seeing that. And I think along with the like how he treated face shitty, the only other fault he had was he couldn't see other people's point of view. Like when when guy sped up the song, he's like, no, it's about like he had.

[00:21:52] This is my vision for this song. And so that's where he would kind of butt heads with the rest of the band, too, is just like he had a very specific vision on how his music should be played and performed. And he wasn't willing to collaborate or listen to other opinions. And for most of the band members, they were fine with that. Like if they got on stage and got to play, cool, whatever. We'll play Jimmy shit. But that's not sustainable. Right.

[00:22:22] But that's not that's not even it. Like, you're right. I don't think Jimmy was not willing to collaborate. Jimmy didn't look at these people as his equals. He's in Erie, Pennsylvania. He just happens to have a band. He does not find their their thoughts valid or. Right. But when you when he goes on tour and yes, it shows that maybe he's stepping out on his girlfriend.

[00:22:49] But really, you could see that what he has is admiration for this woman who's made in the business. He appreciate he looks maybe even as an equal or he is looking up to her because the conversations that we know that they had is that he can't trust the label and all this other stuff because I think he had conversations with her. He can't have the band because he actually values what she was saying, whether he liked her physically or not. So I don't know.

[00:23:17] I don't know if I have evidence to say that Jimmy won't collaborate with other people. I just know that he won't collaborate with these people because he doesn't value them. Right. He'll collaborate with Diane Dane. Yeah. Yeah. On many levels. How long were you sitting on that? So we see a scene where Brad or Chad. Yeah. Interchangeable.

[00:23:42] I only I only know his name because the bass player like in this scene where they're hopping meters is like such an Ethan Embry just quintessential. What do you got it? He comes up and he's like, guys, Chad fell down. That's the only reason I remember his name is because I got Ethan Embry's voice in my head. Chad fell down. So, yeah, Chad breaks his arm hopping over meters and they're part of like this talent show, I guess. Yeah.

[00:24:12] And they're going to perform their one ballad, but they need a drummer. And so that's when Lenny ropes guy in is like, it's just one song one night. Like, just come help us out because Brad Chad broke his arm. I have a question on math. OK. He says he'll do it if they buy two. Two record needles. Two record needles and a radio alarm clock or whatever. And the clock is like 14 something.

[00:24:40] He says if they win, they split $100. So what they're collectively going to buy is probably going to equal or be a little bit less than the $25 that they're going to win. So I was thinking the same thing. I was like, they spent like $18 to get guy in the band. Yeah. They could win 25. I don't know, guys. I just did calculations.

[00:25:05] So adjusted for inflation, just the $14.95 alarm clock is the same buying power as $161 today. Damn. Well, so, but he says yes. So, hey, it worked. So Guy goes to rehearsal. Like, this is where we start to see the tension between Jimmy and Guy. So he learns the arrangement. They go and perform.

[00:25:36] And, you know, guys just feel... Sorry, pause one second. Like, this is, like, I just want to track every... This is going to be a Steve Zahn stand podcast from here on out. I hope you know. Because, like, every line that Steve Zahn has in this movie is great. And so in this, like, at the rehearsal, and the bass player is like, Ethan Embry, it took Chad a week to learn that. And then Steve Zahn is like, Chad? Who's Chad?

[00:26:05] I want to say that he... You can't tell me Steve didn't ad-lib a lot of stuff in this movie. Yeah. My favorite Steve Zahn money line in this whole movie is, you're signing, I'm signing, we're all signing. We're all signing. A man in a really nice camper wants to put our song on the radio. I like when they get interviewed and they're like, who are your... Who are your inspirations? Inspirations. And he says the fake fans. Captain Geach of the Drift Check. Oh, my God.

[00:26:34] Steve took me out. And everyone's just looking at him like, what the fuck, man? Even Tom Hanks is like, Lenny, what the fuck? Take anything serious, Lenny. And he thinks the Wonders is such a stupid name that he incorrectly corrects people. So it's like, oh, it's the O'Netters. That's the O'Netters. He's like, do you know what this is? Residential flashcards?

[00:27:04] Oh, Steve's one. He's so good. He's so good. So good. But yeah, that was the first one was, yeah, like Chad. Who's Chad? Poor Chad. But I think Chad is definitely a placeholder because the Beatles are mentioned quite a bit. And obviously we know that it's Ringo Starr, I think, who comes into... Is it Ringo? Yeah.

[00:27:31] Yeah, Ringo, who comes into the Beatles before they become popular. Somebody else was there. So I feel like that was, you know, obviously a correlation there. And I was thinking about this a lot of like, man, yeah, how must it feel to be that original drummer of the Beatles? Like, oh, God. Right? So I have empathy for Chad to kind of watch this whole thing unfold. Like, man.

[00:27:58] They practice and now they're at the talent show. Talent show. And obviously Guy is the one who sets the tone for how they start off. And he starts going way too fast. And the band has to quickly adjust. And I think Jimmy, one of the reasons, Jimmy is just probably in a state of being kind of like miserable. Yeah.

[00:28:22] But I think something about the carefree demeanor of Guy is one of the things that probably bothers him. And also Guy has effortless talent and it's never questioned. Right? You know, there's not. I feel like also Jimmy puts a lot of pressure on himself too, right? He wants his songs to do well. He cares about that. And Guy just looks like everything is coming up roses for him.

[00:28:50] So I think that also could be why there's some friction. And also as musicians, like, that's a fucked up thing to do, Guy. Like, on stage at the show, like, you know what? Let's just do a completely different song. Like, just make that call on your own. Like, bro, that's rude. That's a bad musicianship. We might have liked the song better, but it was really fucked up to do that.

[00:29:19] And so now it's almost like Jimmy has lost control of his vision. Well, because now they're pigeonholed into this tempo because so many people experienced it for the first time as a certain type of song. Right. Yeah. Because they win. They do win the talent show. And then really quickly after, one of the restaurant owners books them a gig to work somewhere near the airport.

[00:29:48] So, yes, you're right. They are pigeonholed to play every night now that thing you do, which I feel for so many bands where you're trying to expand your craft. And the one song people come for, that's what they want to hear. I can't imagine how difficult that is. Unless you like Michael Jackson where everything's a banger. Well, and we get it. In these couple of scenes, we get seen him in everything.

[00:30:13] Sean Whalen, Roach from People Under the Stairs is my favorite role of his. As kind of the catalyst for like, play the song because I want to dance. I want to meet girls. And so it's like, you already have a fan base from this song from the jump too. Right. To which Steve Zahn says, hey, wasn't that our fan? And so they, because of his request, they now have to make an album.

[00:30:42] And they were thinking about selling. And of course, Faye is, she's like, I don't know what you would call it. She's not just costume. She handles everything. It's like a manager. She's logistics. Yeah. So they're trying to figure out if they're going, where they're going to be able to actually record something. And I think the bass players, like the booths at one of the department stores or something. And they're like, that's like a photo booth.

[00:31:12] Like there's no room. Where am I putting my drums? Like, come on. And then we find out Guy has his uncle, because again, him and Lenny have this connection of friendship. And Lenny's like, hey, your uncle doesn't need to record. Yeah. Christian music or whatever. And who's Uncle Bob played by? Chris Isaac. Yes. Thank you. Because I was like, oh, so good looks running the jeans, except for your daddy. What's going on? It must be the mom side of the family.

[00:31:39] I love that, again, another Steve's on Ethan Embry stealing the show. There's a moment where they're like, okay, we're going to go do this thing in a church. And then like Lenny says, but we'll have to watch our language and looks right at Ethan Embry. And Ethan Embry gives that like, I don't know, that classic Ethan Embry, like knowing like, oh, yeah, yeah, we will. Like, what are you? What was like, oh, yeah, Ethan Embry, watch your language. Yeah.

[00:32:02] And then on top of it, when, of course, Jimmy is like wanting to know who, like when they're going to get it back, he gives scripture. And it's the bass player who actually can recite it. Yeah. I'm like, what's going on? But no one questions. Who are you? No one asks any questions about this man. No.

[00:32:25] And Jimmy is also slighted again because they only, the B side, they don't take enough time to like actually sing it, which is a slower song that he's like, okay. And again, it comes up when he's like, should we re-record it? And they're like, no, just hush, hush, hush, hush, hush. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So now they're selling the albums at Villa Piano's. The restaurant. Yeah. The restaurant. For a dollar a piece.

[00:32:55] Tom Hanks just, I wanted to say he has not a creative bone in his body, but when it comes to names, he just pulls from real life because that is the name. He is a Raiders fan. So it was a linebacker, Phil Villa-Piano. I think everyone pulls from their, their life. Yeah. He has a lot. Like half of our fun facts are just names he's pulled from other people to name things. This is an Oakland and that's an Oakland and that's an Oakland and that's an Oakland.

[00:33:24] I did know Tom Hanks is from Oakland. It's either Apollo 13, Forrest Gump or Oakland. So one of the people that buys one of the albums from Faye is a small town local producer or manager. Sorry. He doesn't look like it. He looked, I thought, oh, is this movie switching to serial killer? It was very, he gave very creepy vibes. I mean, he had a really nice camper.

[00:33:52] So I also find it interesting that the person he goes to contact. And pull up on is Guy and not Jimmy. Or any of the other guys. Like, why was it Guy? Well, I feel like Jimmy is, seems unapproachable. Yeah. And I imagine like guys like, like Phil, the manager and White, you know, from Playtone.

[00:34:18] Like they have been in the scene long enough to clock a guy like Jimmy right away. They're like, oh, you're going to be, you're not the, you're not the one. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. If we're going to do some kind of business together, like, I don't want to talk to you actually. Like you're not. Yeah. Which fair, whether it's fair or not. I think that's what the business minded guys like Phil and Mr. White. They know that. Yeah. There are two things that take me out of this movie. One we'll get to in a minute.

[00:34:44] But the other is the fucking I am Spartacus thing that the guy. What is that? I hate it so much. I thought you guys could explain it to me. I thought it was like a white man thing. Is that not? Because, okay, it has to be. Because that whole, the whole premise of what's your Roman Empire and why I, why white men especially are obsessed with Rome in general.

[00:35:13] Because I hear it more than I would like. And I'm like, why? I don't get it. So, and then Spartacus, that was a pretty part. They keep remaking those same movies over and over again. I don't know. Explain it. Oh, I got nothing for you. I just Googled it. Okay.

[00:35:33] And it says the line parody is the famous scene from the 1960 historical film Spartacus, which captured where captured slaves stand up and declare I am Spartacus to protect their leader. So is guy protecting. No. No. No. See, that's the thing. I knew that reference to that film. Yes, we know that. It makes no sense. I thought maybe it was like. Yeah. I think there's a cultural thing behind it. And I don't, I don't get it.

[00:36:03] So listeners, if you understand, please. I got two white people who are stumped. I definitely don't know. I'm confused. Because he does it twice. Yeah. Yeah. And he does it on the phone to his girlfriend. And like, it's weird. It's weird. Guy can't read a room, by the way. No. Because, like, did I think him, I just didn't think him and his girlfriend were a match. And I don't really blame her because he wasn't talking.

[00:36:31] Every time she would speak to him and ask questions, he really ignored her. Because she's like, I thought we were going to the club. He's like, oh, I got to play. Like, he really was flippant about her. Yep. I feel. They were on, they were just on very, like, immediately on different wavelengths. Like, they are not, they're incompatible. He wasn't a good boyfriend. I'm sorry. He was way more in tune to Faye. Yes.

[00:37:00] Even just as a friend than he was to his girlfriend. Yeah. And I think, like, I wonder if, so this is just me. I don't, like, I don't know. I do this a lot on this podcast where I'm like, I don't want to, with my whole chest, protect the privileged white man. So I'm going to do this for, like, half my voice and just kind of wonder. Like, would, was Guy a better boyfriend before he was in the band?

[00:37:26] Like, because once he joined the band and the band started playing music, like, that became very important to him. More important to him than his relationship with his girlfriend. And his girlfriend did not match that energy. And so very quickly they were just, this is not good. And so maybe, like, we only see his relationship with Tina after he joins the band. And it just, it breaks everything down. I think prior to this, Guy was performing. He was performing at work with his parents. He wasn't his true full self.

[00:37:55] We don't see that light up until he's playing music. Right. So I think even dating someone like her, like Tina, was performing. Them going to the club. Does Guy seem like a guy that wants to go to the country club? No. But he's performing in the ways that society tells him he's supposed to be. Yeah. Because it's like jazz, one of the reasons why I don't think jazz was popular to the culture,

[00:38:22] like counterculture, not counterculture, but to the masses is because it's so outside the box, you know? And a lot of people don't understand, like, you can have a jazz session, a jam session, and the next time you're playing it completely different. There are, you're not writing the notes. You're not, you're, it's a feeling kind of thing. Yeah.

[00:38:44] And so I think it's a really good way to show the differences in his life with music and the type of music he really gravitates to. Right. Guy is drawn to jazz and Tina can't understand it at all. Yeah. That's not, that's not her vibe at all. So once he stops performing, then that relationship fizzles. I don't think he was ever really a good boyfriend per se, because he wasn't into that relationship. Yeah.

[00:39:14] He might've been performing the role of a good boyfriend, but he wasn't ever, I'm sure he was never in it. Yeah. And she wasn't in it either, because also we have to look at the context of what time period this was. Your role as a woman is to find a provider or partner and get married. And so she's doing all of her performances, the makeup and hair. Good looking dentist. Right. Hey. Yeah. Hey. She secured what she was supposed to do. Yeah.

[00:39:43] Dentist, greater than sign, appliance store. Yes. Yeah. And not even appliance store, this man trying to be in a band. I didn't sign up for this. Nope. Nope. I signed up for appliance store air. I did not sign up for jazz drummer, pop musician. Hell no. Get out of here. And I'm sure we're digging way deeper than anybody ever. The Tina. The motivation of Tina.

[00:40:09] So yeah, Phil pulls them into his really nice camper, lures them in with stew and has them sign. Really nice camper. That looked like a sex den. Something was going on there. I said, don't go in there, guy. It wasn't even like a camper, like an RV. It was like. On the back of a pickup truck. Yeah. That, yeah. That was stranger danger for sure. I do not remember this part at all in the movie.

[00:40:38] I was like, who is this man? Where are we going? I don't recall. Where's Tom Hanks? That's what I was saying. I was watching this. Yeah. So then Phil, Phil's first job is he gets them a gig in Pittsburgh. Yeah. Yeah. Opening for some big rock show in Pittsburgh and it goes terribly. But, but Phil kind of takes them aside after the show and just like, Hey, buck up, man. Like this is one bad show. Ain't going to ruin it.

[00:41:05] But somehow after that bad show, he leads guy to a lunch meeting with white. It plays records. Right. We're off to the races. Because he, again, this is all part of the plan. As soon as he got, because the way these A&R guys, these manager guys or whatever, it's like a system. So once he heard the record, he was like, Oh, this is a hit. Cause they, they can read that stuff. I'm sure he already had called Mr. White and was like, I think I got them. I got one.

[00:41:35] Yeah. I think we can do at least a tour. We can get a tour out of them. Maybe another hit. And they spoke about it. And then it was a transfer. Yeah. Because that he's like, Oh no, I'm not going with you all the way. That's not what I do. I scout talent. In Erie, Pennsylvania. In these rural areas, these small towns.

[00:41:57] And I pluck them out of obscurity and I get a big paycheck and I can make my stew on the back of my pickup truck and live the life I want to live. Yeah. Yeah. So then. But also like, just real quick. Sorry, we skipped a moment. That's actually like, I really love the scene when the song is on the radio. Yes.

[00:42:16] That feels like, so like, that's such a time capsule of like, that's never going to happen again of like everybody around is going to experience the same thing at the same time. Yes. And kind of find the excitement in that singular moment. I thought that was fun. That was just really fun to see. Yeah. But this is the other part of this scene is the other thing that takes me out of the movie. How Faye shoves the entire stamp in her mouth to lick it, to put it on the envelope.

[00:42:46] Like every time I watch it, I'm like, girl, that's not stick your tongue out and put the stamp on it. Why are you putting the whole thing in your mouth? So yeah, we get this very jovial scene where they're like, just like, everyone's turning on the radio. They're dancing around. Steve's on again, I'm sure was ad libbed where he grabs the cutout and is like dancing around with it, making out with it. It's just such a great scene.

[00:43:14] I like that he did that instead of trying to kiss the sister without her permission. Yeah. But yeah, that scene was super cute. I love that even some of the details in the back when she's at the post box or whatever, you see a Woolworth inside. Like, so like you get some of those exterior shots of the days of past. So what happens after this? Then they have the show and it goes badly.

[00:43:42] And then they go see Mr. White and Playtone Records. Yeah. And so they sign and now they're going on tour of state fairs. And we get like the Playtone family. Now, I think the Playtones record label is probably all the other record labels, but I definitely think it's more Motown because Motown was definitely doing this as well.

[00:44:12] Like, I think they had one of the best systems with bands, feeders, tours, how they would do things. Yeah. That's what I thought. It's also someone else. Sorry. And as Mr. White is kind of absorbing the wonders, he's like one of his first acts of business is like, it's a terrible name. It's confusing. You're just the wonders. You're not the O-N-E.

[00:44:38] Which as even growing up, I'm like, why don't they just do number one hyphen D-E-R-S? And then it wouldn't be as confusing and still get the point across. Yes. As then, as it is now, we have a reading comprehension in this country that's real bad. So I'm not surprised in the slightest. But the more I think about it, the more I realize that guy, when Faye says that this wouldn't have happened to the band without him. And it's true.

[00:45:07] He changed the tempo of the beat of the song that needed a hit. And he accidentally named the band because it inspired me. Yeah. So guy's that guy. Yeah. But speaking of which, we get like kind of Mr. White's first act is both. Like almost I, in my head, I'm convincing myself that White is kind of a villain in this. In that he is the personification of the machine. Yeah.

[00:45:36] And he immediately is just like, look, this is how we're going to make you popular. And he starts shifting power in the band to guy. Like he kind of makes guy the cool one. And he kind of takes things away from Jimmy. Like the name. Like Jimmy wanted this pun in the name. And Mr. White's like, nope. And it's like, yeah. And it's what's going to make the band popular, which is good. But it's more of this like needling Jimmy.

[00:46:01] Like Jimmy's not getting what he wants out of his art and kind of like sewing discord. As much as Mr. White kind of like keeps the band together, he also kind of like drives wedges in the band with the choices he's making to make the band popular. Yeah. I also think that when you talk about the machine, because he's doing things because he knows these things are tried and true. They work.

[00:46:26] And you have to build equity or build power essentially or leverage to be able to have the kind of things that Jimmy wants. You know, when you think about the Carol Kings of the world or a lot of even now to like Victoria Monet, when you look at these singers who it takes them a while to be able to get that chance. Maybe they don't make it at first. They have to become writers. They have to do like Smokey Robinson.

[00:46:55] He had his own group, but he was writing a ton for other people first before, you know. So I do think there's this other element of let me make you famous. Let me get you into the machine because the things that you want to do don't traditionally work. Yeah, but they don't traditionally work because of the machine. So it's like, you know. Right. And so Jimmy doesn't quite understand.

[00:47:22] Like first you have to get your hands on the levers and then you can work the machine to what you want. Right. Yeah. And White understands that, but Jimmy doesn't. But also White doesn't explain that to Jimmy in a way that Jimmy can understand. He's just like, Jimmy, shut up. Get out there and play your song. Because Jimmy's a product to Mr. White. Mr. White's job is not to be a, what you call it? Mentor. Thank you. He's, that's not his job. His, he's a part of the cognitive machine to keep it going.

[00:47:52] Just like the old manager was like everyone has their role. And then when it's time to exit and you, that's what capitalism is. It is to take the raw material, extract as much as you can, and then throw out the rest. And you don't really, there's no parts in that system that are supposed to think about, is this ethic, ethical? Is this a way that we could do it better? Is this hurting people? That's not, that's not the system that's built. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:48:21] And we see this in like one of their first state fair shows, like Jimmy says, like Mr. White's kind of coaching them through. And Jimmy's like, what if they want an encore? And White's like, nope, you get off stage. But then he immediately follows that up with like, but y'all look great in red. Have I told you how great you look in red? And it's like, you know, cause White's like, he knows like, he's got to keep the band together. He's got to keep them happy. Right. But he's also just got to keep them playing this one song as much as possible. Yeah. Yeah. It's it. I don't know.

[00:48:48] I like, I think when I first saw this, I thought White was like this cool mentor guy, but he's, he's not. No. He's gonna, he's gonna squeeze all the equity out of this band as much as possible. And then if he can use members in different areas, he'll disperse as needed. And like, when you really look back on the predatory, the music's, I think out of all the industries we have, the music industry is probably the worst. Yes.

[00:49:16] And when you look back at how predatory these record companies were to these, even the one hit artists, it was really bad. But then when you look at how even worse it was for black artists, like how many people had to try to sue to get their masters. Some of them never got their masters back. Some of them never saw the money from making their songs. Yeah.

[00:49:40] And I wonder even the contract that Jimmy signed because he did write the song, like what the royalties would look like. Like these were young boys and they had zero protection forever. And that's how that works. And Lenny just forced them to sign a contract. Yeah. Cause Lenny's an idiot. Yeah. He's the, he's the rock star. He just wants to play guitar and party. Yeah. Yeah. He's not thinking about anything else.

[00:50:04] So then we also get like a side story about the bass player, how he has enlisted in the military and he's leaving at the end of August. So for him, this is just like summer camp. Like I'm going to go do all these state fairs and then I'm going to go fight for our country type thing. And then similarly with Lenny, Lenny's just in it for the fun, like girls fame, fun ride, like not super serious.

[00:50:32] So the only people that are like truly in it are guy and Jimmy and Jimmy's just way more intense and way more like cautious and side-eyeing the machine than guy is at any point in time. Yeah. What's interesting though, like what they share in common in this section, like when they start going on tours and the state fairs is the way that they're all just giddy about like this, the, the place that they're in and like the people they're with, like just time after time.

[00:51:02] I, I, one of my favorite, I have one friend who kind of became an actual like legitimately successful musician. He taught me the phrase punishing. He's like, make sure you don't punish your heroes because like, if you end up in these situations, like this is what he was talking about. I'm just like, the wonders just start punishing everybody on the Playtone label. It's just like, they're just trying to go like play their shows. And then here's these kids are just like, it's like, could you stop? Could you stop? Stop. Stop.

[00:51:31] So like at the, at the same time that like, you know, yeah. Like, you know, Jimmy's like a serious artist and they're like trying to be, but like, they're all like infatuated with. Yes. That's the scene they're in now. Yeah. And this is where, so like when the movie starts, I have the, you know, like great band, whatever. Once we start to go on tour and we're in Ohio, I want people to realize that just because

[00:52:01] it's not a Southern state, this is still the Midwest. And it was not like a. Yeah. It's not a welcoming integrated situation happening. And one thing that just took me out of the movie is that we have one of the girl group bands that is a black girl group with the rest of the acts being white, which I was just like, not, not happening. If it did, I stand corrected, but highly doubtful.

[00:52:29] And so they have this like fun and you see her having a kind of like a cute little relationship with the bass player. They're on, they, you know, they have some montages, you see them like kind of holding hands and taking pictures. And it's just maybe the nineties, but this was not happening during this time. And it takes me out of the movie every time. And, you know, earlier before we started this episode, I started having this conversation with

[00:52:58] Nick before Jackie came on about like how you want to be in this fun state of this really fictional movie. And you can kind of see how Tom Hanks being the writer and director wants to have this like rose colored view of things, but not really have to touch any of like the real hardships that were actually happening during this time.

[00:53:23] I could say it's fictional, but he uses so many real examples and shouts out like real people that I have to believe this is in the real world. And I'm like, it would have been better if it like, just keep it white because now you're playing in this false historical inaccuracies. There's a lot of historical inaccuracies in this movie.

[00:53:48] So it, now rewatching it takes me out, call it what you want, but because there's real things happening during this time and it's not cute. So yeah, I don't even know. I'm trying to think of like when love versus love versus Virginia, Virginia happened or even interracial marriage at this point. I'll find out. And even if the Supreme court had decided it was legal, like the, to see the bass player

[00:54:17] and the, the, the other musicians, like how that would have been like at the very least like contentious and fraught and, you know, but at most dangerous, like it's, you know, even if we're going to, if we're going to have that relationship in a rose colored lens, like it's not that, like, that's a story in and of itself of like, you know, that's so, yeah, but to just kind of like sprinkle it in like, Hey, look, it's like, Oh, he's dancing on the sidelines.

[00:54:44] He spent so much time with her that he knows their dance routine. Yeah. It's not the meet cute that is portrayed in the movie. I will say that interracial marriage was legal in Ohio in 1948. So it was before loving in Virginia versus Virginia that made it national. With the Supreme court, but yeah. I mean, interesting. So good to know, but yeah. Doesn't it doesn't help Tom Hanks's case?

[00:55:14] No. Cause he does some other things later that we'll get into. Yeah. So again, now they're on tour. Yeah. Lenny is in it just for the fun and the fame. Bass player. He's going to win that blue ribbon with his pig. Oh, I'm not with these fellas. Oh my God. Steve's on. This is where Jimmy starts putting pressure on Mr. White. Like, when are we going to start recording our next album? Like we've been doing all of these shows.

[00:55:41] He he's frustrated that this song is like becoming his defining characteristic when he has so much more to give. While also showing off that it's reaching number seven on the charts. Right. Yeah. Jimmy is there's contradictions here. Yes. But the reason this conversation comes up is because they're about to completely turn and leave this little state fair run and go to California and do some other gigs.

[00:56:07] And then, yes, they will be able to record because because it's the fastest growing hit single on their record label. And they they can move on from the tour circuit for state fairs. And they get a role in a little movie. Jimmy is so over it. He's like, this is not what I signed up for. Lenny's like, this is a great time. And then we get the scene with the radio station.

[00:56:36] And Lenny does the callback to Captain Geach and the Shrimp Shack shooters, which is a Forrest Gump connection. It was inspired by seafood restaurants new near Buford, South Carolina, where scenes from Forrest Gump were filmed. I love it because, as you know, I love those beach movies from the 60s that my mom like I grew up watching them again, not knowing what time period we were in. And it reminded me of the Gidget and Tammy and all that stuff.

[00:57:05] So I was very excited for that. Yeah. And then around this time is when Jimmy starts getting closer to Diane Dane. Who is an established singer. And like you said, Nick, he views her more as like on his level. Like she's had success. She. What? Danielle said that. Oh, sorry. Given the white man credit. I'm used to it. Just didn't think you'd be my own best friend.

[00:57:34] As Danielle had stated earlier, Jimmy views Diane more of his equal. She writes her song. She she's been performing. And so he starts this relationship with her where he kind of wants to learn from her. And Faye notices. And so does Guy that like Jimmy spending more time with Diane. And but Faye is still just she's going to do whatever it takes, not only for Jimmy, but for the band.

[00:58:05] And so she just keeps. Trucking on and kind of just tries to turn a blind eye to this this relationship that she's witnessing. And there was a scene that I noticed where white kind of. Chats with Faye quickly at a bar. And I think white is seeing this play out. And it's also, again, like he gets it because he's been in the round. He knows these types of characters. And he's also manipulating it in a way. Yeah, he kind of plants the seed of like, hey, Faye.

[00:58:34] Jimmy, Jimmy is this kind of guy. And he's not your guy. Guy is your guy. Like, he kind of plants that seed because he could see. I don't know if he could like kind of see that that's how it's going to go or if that's how he wants it to go or both. I think he talks it very early on. You see him kind of go like this and he watches. He watches how Guy is with Faye. So he sees it and he likes Faye, which I thought was very weird.

[00:59:01] This was also like, you know, the race thing was one thing. But like to have a woman. First of all, you don't have her mom being like, you're not going on tour with a bunch of men. The fact that she was treated so with care and kindly is, I think, very rare and maybe not so realistic. Because what do you mean? And then he was very nice and kind and accommodating.

[00:59:29] Where normally in that system, you wouldn't want some girlfriend to be on tour. You wouldn't even like when it's put on the screen that he's engaged. Like every boy band rule knows you can't have a girlfriend. That is cutting into our numbers. You got to hide that. But that was kind of tongue in cheek to what happened when the Beatles were on the Ed Sullivan show. They had a similar title for John Lennon. Yeah. Got it.

[00:59:58] Got it. Got it. That makes sense. It is interesting now that you bring it up, Danielle. It's like thinking about our conversation about Almost Famous and that kind of depiction of a band on tour and the way that they treated women on that tour versus how Mr. White and the Wonders are treating Faye in this story. It does seem, I mean, yeah, put it in that category again. It's like, that's cute. This is cute. Yeah. That's not going to happen.

[01:00:24] Because again, it's almost like this is how Americana time period wanted it to look. Right? Yeah. Women are daint and sweet and we treat them with respect when we know the flip side of it was that that's not what was happening in the slightest. Yeah. Which I feel is very interesting that Liv Tyler plays this role. She's not a groupie, but she's adjacent.

[01:00:55] You should know. She's adjacent and we know the history of her mother and what her mother actually lived. Right. And so it's just pretty interesting that she was chosen for this role in this movie. So, yeah. So now they get on the plane, we find out that she's sick and the only person that's paying attention to that, well, actually, before they even get on the plane, they're now getting into a limo or a police. They're getting mobbed. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:01:23] And everybody is gone and Faye is stopped because they think that she's just a girly pop fan. And it's only Guy that realizes and he's like, she's with us and brings her. And Jimmy, he doesn't care. Then on the plane, we find out that Faye is sick. And again, it's Guy who helps her and, you know, make sure that she's okay. And then they're having conversations with Mr. White on the plane about like how things are going to go. Are they going to record and all this other stuff?

[01:01:53] And then they get to the hotel. And it's really cool that he's showing these like exterior shots of, you know, how California was at this time, you know, in his mind. And it's really cool that they're pulling up at some of these namestays that are still around in some ways. I think one of the hotels were, I'm not sure.

[01:02:15] And this is where we are introduced to Lamar at the hotel they're staying at in LA, which, yeah, I didn't remember this the first time I watched it. But then, yeah, coming back, I'm like, ah, Tom Hanks again, being lazy. I don't, you know what, when I think about it in the context of like, yeah, putting him in this trope is insane.

[01:02:40] But from the viewpoint of a white person in the 60s, a black person had to perform in this way at these kind of jobs. So the back end is we know the context of this man is not happy. He is not friends with these people. He he's trying to survive. But from their viewpoint, he is just happy to be there, happy to support, happy to like be a little speck in my story.

[01:03:09] And that's great. So I do think from if you're looking at this lens where all the hidden horrors are behind these rose colored glasses, then that fits. It's infuriating, but it fits. And I think it would have made I think you're absolutely right. And I also think it would have helped.

[01:03:28] So this kind of sounds weird, but it would have helped the character if he never really like went into the hotel and acted like he knew, like, who's staying with who in what rooms and send this to the like if he was the valet, like all the scenes in the valley. I'm like, oh, I get it. Like if a man like that is in charge of the valley, like nobody's coming in and out of this hotel without him kind of tracking who's coming and who's going. And he's kind of got that locked. And so, like, all those interactions about like somebody rolling up in a car and that I'm like, OK, cool.

[01:03:57] Like we can it's it's a bit less of a trope when it's like, no, this guy's just really damn good at his job. But every time he goes into the hotel, he's like, let me like give you some relationship wisdom about like, oh, like like at the end of the movie, it was like, oh, face sitting at the cafe by herself. Like, I know that you and Jimmy, Jimmy's an asshole. And I'm like, you don't like come on, man. Like we're doing too much. The same. No, no. Stop it.

[01:04:26] So the first thing I don't like Lamar, though, he's cool. Like he's a fun character, but the actor is fantastic. That's what it is. Yeah. And now they the first thing they have to do is they have to meet the owner of the record company. And this whole scene is very interesting. But then in this scene, Jimmy gets out over his skis again, like trying to do too much.

[01:04:54] You know, he doesn't understand how the machine works. And he goes right up to the owner operator of Playtone Records. And then is Jimmy is offended when this man doesn't care about him. And it's like, Jimmy, there's you're not understanding. Like what is happening in this world? Like hog in the wheel. Jimmy's like, I am that dude. And I don't know why it's taking so long for these people to catch the hell up. For sure. Yeah. Awkward. So at this point.

[01:05:24] I was gonna say, yeah. So then they go back to the hotel and Jimmy starts to actually like articulate to the band. Like, I think this is a problem. Yeah. He doesn't trust this. Faye goes to go rest. Jimmy's out because he's pissed. Oh boy. Met a girl at the headquarters. The secretary. And he's got a thing for her. So she comes to pick him up. So they, they skedaddle.

[01:05:49] And now guy and the bass, the bass player think they're going to go check out the Chinese theater. Is that what it's called? Yeah. See some, see some sites, some Hollywood LA sites. And before they could even do that, he sees some Marines and he's like, becomes their bitch essentially. So guys, I like that guy doesn't even say, are we going? He's like, all right, I'm out. All right. And he goes and he asks Lamar for a jazz joint. And of course he gives him a quiz to say, are you, are you about this for real?

[01:06:20] And sends him to a blues joint. And he acts like such a fan guy during this. Doesn't even realize Marguerite is trying to sleep with him. Yeah. Yeah. She's like all leaned over and stuff. And he's just like, so. The drummer? Yeah. Del Paxton's here. Yeah. About to juice his pants. He's so excited.

[01:06:50] And the way he's, his hair is flopping around and he's with the martinis. I was like, oh my God. But Del entertains him. And it's just like, okay. Come sit over by us. And, and Del does recognize that Jimmy knows what he's talking about. He, he's talking about his out, like his albums and like, I've listened to everything you own.

[01:07:15] And like, he, he understands that Jimmy really does have a love for jazz or sorry. Yeah. Guy has a love for jazz. Yes. He consumes. He consumes. Yeah. Yeah. This is again, like, I mean, guy, it was an interesting scene. Some like guys again, punishing his heroes by like fawning over like the things that they in a way that's like, I don't know if that's complimentary, man. Like, I don't know if. I'm just trying to live. Yeah.

[01:07:45] Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't know. Like you gotta have a little bit of like, again, reading the room and understanding, like, I think if this man is going to talk to you, you've got to like chill and listen and respect and like, you know, and again, I felt like it was, it was another missed opportunity because like having this, you know, this white kid who has good intentions go into this jazz club to talk to these black musicians. Like it could have been a more, a very different conversation. Right.

[01:08:12] But instead it was portrayed as like, okay, guy's going to be in there and be goofy as hell and just embarrass the shit out of himself. But these like veteran black musicians are still going to be like, sure kid, no problem. Let me just give you all this wisdom I have. And it's like, that's not how that works. That's not how that's going to work. Yeah. Like, yeah. For all kinds of reasons. And I do think these movies are one of the reasons why so many white people feel like

[01:08:39] they have like the God given right to extract anything from us or from our experiences or us just being out, out in life that we are a secondary character for them to be able to just like, what's the problem? Like, and when we react in a way that is like, you're in peeding on my just existence and trying to live.

[01:09:05] There's this, like, I don't understand because it's so ingrained even in our media that we are supposed to be at service in some way. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I could, I could imagine the conversation still could have happened, but guy only if guy had approached it in a much different way. Like if he kind of like came out of that table, just like, I'm a young drummer in town. I'm new at this, but I love the style. I love your music. But tell me about like, how did like, tell me stories.

[01:09:34] Like, I want to learn from you because I respect you as a musician and like your body of work. Like, but to just kind of flop into the table, all drunk and be like, like, just no, go away. Like you obnoxious child. Well, he was floating on a cloud and Bill Paxton, that's not his name. He was very kind. Dell was very kind to him. He gets back. I was like, wait, did he sleep with Marguerite?

[01:10:04] Cause we don't ever see if he's by himself on that bed. I'm just saying, but he's called by Mr. White and he's like, get your ass to the studio because where the hell is the bass player? Yeah. You find out Jimmy is sick and he immediately blames Faye for it. And what's his face? Which I immediately was like, you've never touched Faye. So that's not, that's come on. We know Jimmy, you're not anywhere near Faye. Faye didn't get you sick. Yeah.

[01:10:32] Jimmy is blaming poor old Faye. And then you got, he does. And then Lenny is, his girl is there. He's like, what do you think about it? Lenny just wants to go to Vegas. And what I love is that he's asking everybody for money. And I think it Jimmy's like, ask guy. He's dumb enough to do it. And he does. He's like, sure. What do you need? He does. No questions asked. He's like, yeah. Pulls out his wallet. Yeah. The bass player ended up in Disneyland with the Marines.

[01:11:03] Yes. He's gone. Another scene. Like, Ken, we're watching. Ken goes, is he on the Matterhorn with Mickey Mouse? Yes. And two U.S. Marines. Yes. And then on top of that, the bass player took, I like how Mr. White does not panic about this. He's already got himself a bass player ready to go. And the guys have the audacity to be like, well, is he good enough to play with us? And that man's like.

[01:11:34] And they're like, oh. Yeah, he's cool. Like, they also said like, I don't know, man. We've been together a lot. You've been together like three months. Yeah. Like, get out of here. No. and so they have a new bass player jimmy pulls it together and again another sign that the only person who gets a damn about faye is guy he's like asking mr white well what about faye is faye he's like i took care of her and she has like her pretty woman moment or whatever where she gets to

[01:12:04] go to a store again i'm like is this realistic is it did this happen like every everything about mr white so far has been about making money and he's just gonna like give faye like five hundred dollars to go get all no even at the end where faye's going home ken's like how is she getting home like they have no deal i'm like i feel like mr white has just taken a shine to faye like that's

[01:12:32] the only thing that makes sense is like mr white maybe views her as a daughter and it's just like sure honey i'll help you out like would have never happened i know i'm gonna sleep with her like come on so is this where we start recording the new album well so that was that was before and now we're at the tv station they're ready to go and perform faye's in the audience you see guys parents like

[01:12:59] having the time of their life the dad who wasn't supportive now is real excited because he's going to be on this tv show and then brad chad shows up because he's working at the appliance store and he is just replaced guy as the son and he's sitting in front of the tv with his tv dinner watching the performance too seemingly really excited for the rest of the guys yeah no animosity that that should

[01:13:24] have been him at all no yeah yeah but then it's at the on this national tv performance that's where we get the tv says that jimmy and faye are engaged and then backstage faye you know hands jimmy his ass as is deservedly so shame on me for wasting thousands of kisses on you i was like what is this this whole thing i don't just be monologuing we just let baby faye in that moment

[01:13:53] and what movie was it giving it was giving jerry mcguire no i mean it just her cadence it was i think like 10 things i hate about you oh no it just just live i don't even mean oh oh yeah yeah how you know she just has that doll face yeah thing about her so that was interesting

[01:14:18] she's going on about this jimmy don't give a damn but it's shown in as she's like trying to talk to him he's like tuning his guitars restringing his guitar like gives zero fucks about faye her feelings her opinions on anything and when he the way he reacts the way he talks about her everybody this is

[01:14:44] like we're done with this dude like he sucks so bad she walks away she's like i want you to stay away from me and then he screams at guy to like stop with the fucking glasses which we never talked about that one of the things mr white gives guy is these shades and now everybody calls him shades and but i think it's really important when he does this because then you can see the just pure disappointment

[01:15:11] in guy's eyes when he's talking to jim like when he's looking at jimmy like he sees jimmy for who he is because i think this whole time guy has just been in his own world or he's just an optimist he's just like go with the flow and like and thinks the best of everyone but then in this moment jimmy's reaction to faye is just concrete evidence that guy can't ignore that jimmy's just not a good dude

[01:15:37] yeah yeah and jimmy telling guy to take the shades off i think it's kind of emblematic of everything that's happened to the band like those sunglasses is like everything that has happened in this band that jimmy hates is wrapped up in those sunglasses and so when when jimmy says take those sunglasses off guys like oh like now we've been doing this for like six weeks now but now i see yeah right what you're all about right and yeah and then they go to the recording studio

[01:16:04] and lenny has peaced out to vegas he's gone he's gotten married the bass player is he at disneyland okay or he's just he he is recorded for duty yeah he never came back yeah so it's literally just guy and jimmy that shows up to record the wolfman wolfman well because he's a professional right he actually knows he's getting paid by the hour i feel like they could have if i feel like if

[01:16:34] jimmy stayed they could have replaced lenny yeah no problem yeah but not his not his zippy remarks no they could have replaced his guitar playing yes and but jimmy loses it and this is where he we have the infamous i quit i quit i quit which jonathan did in his audition so this the the script only said

[01:17:01] for him to say i quit and he improvised singing it and that's what it's uh tom hanks attributed to helping him land the role and shaping that scene so yeah now now jimmy's quit guy he stays in the studio guys just kind of jamming by himself in the studio there's an interesting line here where it kind of came all to the climax when mr white says guy your band is falling apart it's like when was

[01:17:29] this guy's i guess now it's guy's band yeah it's like we've been transitioning that way and then now that it's all over oh yeah by the way guys this was your band all along what yeah and he says you're in breach of contract he's like no worries i'm not gonna sue you guys from you know or nobody's going to jail yeah okay thank you but they still owe some money it just means how far this this album goes

[01:17:54] those residuals going straight to the company they're not seeing any of that yeah or you're gonna have to continue with this company because now you have a hole to dig yourself out of yep yeah so but we have a magical ending though so guy yeah yeah oh it's a guy hangs around the studio and then

[01:18:20] just del paxton just happens to be in the building and like and sits down to to jam with guy when del is imparting his wisdom on on guy is there anything else that happens in the scene and then as they're all leaving the hotel yeah and then lamar one last time okay god yeah because fey is in the coffee shop

[01:18:47] and guy rushes over to the hotel because he's got to get his stuff out platon's not playing paying for it anymore and then he realizes fey is at this the in the coffee shop and he gets a push from lamar to go and he talks to fey she talks about jimmy she asked if he was in love with tina he asked about god knows what i don't know what she's gonna do when was yeah oh yeah yeah that's right that's what she's gonna do she says she's gonna go back he says that's what i figured and then he said del said

[01:19:16] i could probably make some money playing the drums here so i think i'm gonna stay and they kind of end it like that you could tell he didn't take the shot like he was supposed to and she walks outside and waiting for a cab and then he goes out and again lamar's like dude take this layup already my god and so he asked her when was the last time she was truly very wonderfully kissed or whatever

[01:19:42] and she says some dude that isn't jimmy yeah before jimmy he was phoning in the whole time right now i just realized like hey good on tom hanks because the math maths like she said at one point she said she'd been with jimmy for two and a half years they said it's 1964 the date she pulls out is 1961 so she's like yeah yeah she just skips over jimmy and i like how guy has to say okay

[01:20:12] got it locked in and he as i'm guessing the guy that he said she said he might know her him or something but because it's like it gave him like oh i i know how that man kissed let me it was just yeah and so he gives her this kiss i'm watching like i don't know what's happening here and she's like yes she's like we should have done this a long time ago i was like oh so we really just skipping over this boy jeremy johnson i don't know what his name is jimmy who's jimmy

[01:20:43] are you jimmy ray who wants to know every once in a while somehow jimmy ray is brought up on this podcast who wants to know who wants to know about me for the ones who get it you get it anywho but they together and then we get the wonderful end title cards when we find out that they've been they got married they got four kids they have some sort of musical school they're doing

[01:21:11] good jimmy has six gold records or something he has a he has another band all under playtone we find out that the bass player went to he did like two tours and he works in orlando why do they always end up in florida just always always and that lenny has some hotel casino situation going on he's successful but he is single so that marriage did not work out no that playboy bunny hopped away

[01:21:43] but did anybody else find it strange that the movie before we get those title cards the movie ends with lamar breaking the fourth wall yeah i was like huh that was a choice yeah and he kind of like he's kind of like looking off camera like theoretically like watching bay and jimmy like walk away or something and then he looks right into the camera and smiles it's like all that i was expecting it

[01:22:08] says that's all folks that's what i was expecting at that point yeah i so yeah it was like i love the movie but yeah that very last i was like that took me out of the movie yeah right there when hated that because it was almost like you know in case in case you didn't recognize lamar as the magical negro here you go like yeah like sparkle in his smile or something like that like oh okay

[01:22:35] that's great thanks thanks for that one and that is that thing you do we did it first of all you tried unison then you realized you weren't catching anything just the fade away was wonderful it was that thing we did yeah

[01:23:01] see if there's any more fun facts we missed so they had a competition to see who could write a song for the movie the winner was adam schlessinger from mountains of wane and he was nominated for best original song at the academy awards and the golden globes and the song reached number 41 on the billboard hot 100 and the soundtrack reached number 21 on the

[01:23:30] billboard 200 so not too shabby for adam no not at all and then additionally the movie's fictional 1964 music required a collection of original songs so in addition to the title track rich elias co-wrote songs including all my only dreams and dance with me tonight and also appears during diane dane's

[01:23:54] rehearsal which like watching the movie those songs the songs in the movie feel familiar so they did one thing right and that was get the tone and like the feeling of songs during that era because i was like oh yeah i know this song and i'm like oh no it's an original song i don't know this song yeah definitely well i think i think that like you said there's a lot of name references to old movies so

[01:24:23] jimmy mattingly and lenny hayes share surnames with astronauts ken mattingly and fred hayes both depicted in apollo 13 that hank started and the other reference hidden on a marquee where marilyn lavelle and the gemini's appears among the acts of the at the boss vic cost show marilyn lavelle was the astronaut jim lavelle's wife while gemini refers to the nasa's gemini program so

[01:24:53] i mean i understand why those references were put he was doing in the midst of doing all those movies at that same time so like that was on his mind mind yeah and if you agreed disagreed have some more things to say make sure to hit us up at no more late fees on instagram facebook tiktok twitter youtube and threads well let's get into present day ratings now nick what would you rate it now that you re-watched

[01:25:19] yeah it is i would go five day rental on this one i would take it down one notch it is still a ton of fun it's a very popcorn movie it's enjoyable steve's on just like is a freaking delight it is there are parts that are kind of harder to watch now but it is still highly enjoyable i don't know it's fun

[01:25:41] jackie i'm gonna go would buy i i like i forgot how much i enjoy and i have to suspend belief of some of the issues that we brought up but it was just such a fun movie ken had never seen this movie so watching him watch it and giggling through all the zon isms of the movie and stuff that was really enjoyable for me and even he said he's like yeah that was a really fun movie to watch so

[01:26:10] you have to suspend some belief and and and ignore some glaringly obvious issues with it but it was it was fun on the re-watch yeah i would say it's still a five-day rental for me yeah i'd watch again nice and hit us up at our quick drop 909-601-6653 you can text us or call us and leave a voicemail at that

[01:26:38] number and you could be featured on a future episode and we have a birthday coming up we want to give a shout out to our girl shannon holla love you love you the best you're you're our shining star for sure i don't know if you're going to listen to this episode but surprise if you do and next week puppy love gets a restraining order lock the doors and join us as we revisit mark

[01:27:08] walberg and reese witherspoon in 1996's fear nick thank you yes thank you for continuing to be bullied by us and coming back on we love you we truly it is it is always always a pleasure thank you and i will see you in like a week so yay i'm very excited

[01:27:32] well thank you both so much i appreciate you all and as always be kind and rewind you