Spiderman 2

[00:00:00] Doc Ock's tentacles are ready to wreak havoc. This week we're swinging into the web of intrigue with Spider-Man 2. Will Peter Parker balance his crumbling love life, a demanding job, and a supervillain with eight metal arms? Welcome to the No More Late Fees podcast. I'm Jackie.

[00:00:31] And I'm Danielle, and we're just two best friends and ex-blockbuster employees rewatching some of the best and worst movies from the late 90s and early 2000s. This week we are celebrating the 20th anniversary of the iconic Marvel classic Spider-Man 2.

[00:00:48] But before we dive in, let's get into some housekeeping. If you love the podcast and you want to support us, here are a few ways that you can. Have you checked out our brand new website yet? Danielle worked her ass off to get this website up and running.

[00:01:08] So for everything No More Late Fees, head on over to nomorelatefeespodcast.com and give her compliments. It's what she lives on. I do. It fuels me. I also like money. Did you know writing a review and or rating us helps us get more listeners?

[00:01:26] Make sure you head over to Apple Podcasts and give us a review. If you've been watching and listening for a while, just say hi. Just say I love the show. It really helps us out a lot. And we're not just great at selecting movies to cover.

[00:01:38] We also have a knack for finding nostalgic treasures you may fancy. So head on over to our Amazon store and check out all of our finds. Amazon.com slash shop slash nomorelatefeespodcast. This week we are not alone.

[00:01:53] Joining us are our three Peters, Mike and Mike from the podcast Mike and Mike go to the Marvel movies and the complete works. Welcome back guys. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for having us. Yeah, appreciate it.

[00:02:06] Thank you for having us on to talk about genuinely like one of my all time favorite movies. This is very exciting. Foundational Mike Smith text. Yeah. I feel like we keep bringing you back for Marvel movies.

[00:02:19] And it's because I think like the first one we we did Spider-Man first. And so that just was like, Oh, would you guys be interested? Because I knew you guys were doing different kinds of movies on your pod.

[00:02:29] And I was like, if people have podcasts, try to get them to come on ours to do something they're not doing on theirs. Right. And then we I think we started talking about Marvel movies. And that's when I was like, well, Daredevil. And you guys said sure.

[00:02:44] And then I remember us talking about other Marvel movies. And I know my kid said he loved the Spider-Man two movie. So it's like, okay, but we will try and get you guys back on for something else.

[00:02:57] And it's not we're not just using you for your Marvel knowledge. I'm happy to do whatever. But if you want to yeah, Ang Lee's Hulk episode later blade two yet. No, not yet. Not yet. One day. Gotta happen.

[00:03:12] And if you want to get to know Mike and Mike a little bit better, come back later this week as we discuss superhero superhero sequels in our bonus episode. And you can revisit them on our Daredevil and Spider-Man episodes as well.

[00:03:28] But let's get the skinny on Spider-Man two. In the second installment in Rami's Spider-Man trilogy, Peter Parker faces fading powers and self doubt as his alter ego Spider-Man faces a new foe. When a failed nuclear fusion experiment results in an explosion that kills his wife, Dr. Otto

[00:03:48] Octavius is transformed into Dr. Octopus. A cyborg with deadly metal tentacles. Doc Ock blames Spider-Man for the accident and seeks revenge. Complicating matters are his best friends hatred for Spider-Man and his true love's sudden engagement to another man. That's right.

[00:04:08] MJ is creeping on a bitch, but we'll talk about that later. He's an astronaut, please. The movie stars Tobey Maguire, Kirsten Dunst, James Franco, Alfred Molina, Rosemary Harris and Donna Murphy. It's directed by Sam Rami. Screenplay by Alvin Sargent.

[00:04:26] The story was by Alfred Gough, Miles Miller and Michael Chabon. I hope I got... Okay, let me say that again. Story by Alfred Gough. Gaff? How do you guys say his last name? Do you guys know? Gow. I think it's Gow. And then Miles Millar and Michael Chabon.

[00:04:41] Okay. Alfred Gough, Miles Millar and Michael Chabon. You can watch it... Chabon. Chabon. Chabon. Chabon. Chabon. Chabon. You can watch it on Disney Plus. And before we get started, let's get into our ratings rewind. So you know the drill.

[00:05:02] Before we get into the movie, we'll reveal the rating our YTK versions of ourselves would give. Then at the end, we'll see if our current selves agree with our initial rating. Our scale consists of would buy it, would buy it again. The best would plan repeat.

[00:05:17] Five day rental. Would watch again. Two day rental. Two day rental. Okay, but nothing to write home about. And same day rental. Gah-bosh. Gah-bosh. Straight up trash. Okay, so Mike D, we'll start with you. What is your YTK rating of Spider-Man 2? I don't remember.

[00:05:41] I definitely saw this in theaters. I'm trying to remember my reaction from back then, but I don't know. I think I just, I think I loved it. So that would be, would buy it. Nice. Mike S?

[00:05:53] Yeah, this is a, it's going to be a boring choice, but yeah, I was all over this movie as a kid. I loved this movie so much. And I will say with Mike D, I think his love for the movie faded a little bit over the

[00:06:02] years, but one of the, I think the first movie we ever saw together in theaters was The Amazing Spider-Man 2 with Andrew Garfield. And afterwards I had Mike D come over to my house and we watched all three of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man movies. Yes.

[00:06:14] Because I was like, you got to watch them again. They're really good. So I think that like reignited Mike D's appreciation for this movie, but yeah, Spider-Man 2 A plus. It was my favorite movie as an 11 year old and would probably, it's very high up there for me now.

[00:06:29] Well, don't spoil the other movies. Yeah, and they're spoiling me. Danielle, how about you? Okay. So I checked, I don't own it, but I always, I thought it was good. I remember, which one did we see together? Because remember the first one. We saw the first one. Okay.

[00:06:52] So the second one, I think I took my little brother Christian who's like obsessed with Spider-Man. So I'm going to give it a five day rental because I don't think I ever bought it and I liked it. I liked it at the time. I do remember that. Jackie?

[00:07:05] I feel like I saw this movie, but as I was watching it, I'm like, I don't remember any of this. I don't know if it's just like 20 years of just seeing clips of it and knowing what the premise is. I don't know.

[00:07:22] So I'm going to go, don't remember because I feel like I saw it, but I don't remember any of it. Did you watch Spider-Man No Way Home? And when Doc showed up, you're like, who's this guy? I knew who he was, but I'm like, I don't.

[00:07:37] And then like we used to ride the Spider-Man ride a lot at Islands of Adventure. So I knew of Stock Ox. So yeah, it's all just a mishmash in my brain. Well let's get into the box office.

[00:07:55] So this movie had a budget of $200 million and it made over $790 million, $795.9 to be exact. That's a crazy amount of money, especially for that time period. $2,004? It's amazing. Yeah. On May 8th, 2002, following Spider-Man's record breaking 115 million opening weekend for the

[00:08:20] first movie, Sony Pictures announced that it was going to have a sequel for 2004. And the record of this opening for Spider-Man 2 was the highest one day opening on a Wednesday and it beat the record that was being held by The Lord of the Rings, The Return of the

[00:08:36] King from 2000. This movie originally was going to be entitled The Amazing Spider-Man after the character's main comic book title. The film was given a budget of $200 million when they had this name. And obviously again, they were aiming for the 2004 release.

[00:08:53] We know now that it changed from The Amazing Spider-Man, but we did see that name come back up when they rebooted the series. Yep. Let's hear what the reviewers had to say about this. So Chicago Tribune gave the film three and a half stars out of four.

[00:09:09] And Mark Caro stated that Alfred Molina was a pleasingly complex villain and the film as a whole improves upon its predecessor in almost every way. I have some comments about that. Lil Raj, Roger Ebert gave Spider-Man 2 four stars out of four, calling it the best superhero

[00:09:31] movie since the modern genre was launched with Superman 1978 and praising the film for effortlessly combining special effects and a human story, keeping its parallel plots alive and moving. He later called it the fourth best film of 2004.

[00:09:48] I got to know what those other three were, but yeah, these are, this is high praise from Lil Raj. Yeah. I'll probably find that real quick. I bet I can find it. Yeah, sure you can. I do love that. It's best superhero movie since the first one.

[00:10:01] Four out of four stars. All right. Roger Ebert's top 10 films of 2004. Found it. Okay. His number one was Million Dollar Baby, which also won Best Picture at the Oscars and stuff. His number two was Kill Bill, Volume 2. Hell yeah. Yeah. And then his number three was Vera Drake.

[00:10:19] I don't know that movie. That was a good movie. I liked it. I love old people movies. There you go. Hell yeah. And then his Spider-Man 2 is four. That's Mulad, The Aviator, Badass, Sideways, Hotel Rwanda, and Undertow are his other- Hotel Rwanda's so low. That's a good movie.

[00:10:39] Yeah. Four is a crazy time. I mean, it's one of his top 10 of the year. That's true. But yeah, that is a good movie. And The Aviator, good movie too. Yeah. Before we get into the cast and crew, let's hear a message from our-

[00:10:57] 30 Dirty and Dying is the podcast for flailing millennials by flailing millennials. Every week, two sick, sad millennials who just happen to be best friends get together to talk about what it's like hitting the 30 mark and still feeling like you don't quite have your life together. We're 30-ish.

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[00:11:48] All right, let's get into cast and crew. There wasn't a lot of casting insights, but- Well, because it's the sequel and they're not going to change up anyone. The only thing I could imagine is Doc Ocks. Yeah, well there was a- Yes, go ahead. Sorry.

[00:12:07] Yeah, no, there was a contract dispute in between these movies with Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2. And so there was a chance for a little while that Tobey Maguire was not going to come back as Spider-Man. The studio and Sam Raimi had Jake Gyllenhaal waiting.

[00:12:22] Jake Gyllenhaal, I think screen tested for the movie. He was almost ready. And I think it was partially because of the contract dispute, also because Tobey had real back problems from doing the stunts from the first movie.

[00:12:32] And that kind of contributed to this stuff, which is I think partially why Spider-Man 2 is sort of about, I mean, also about him losing his powers for a little bit so that Maguire didn't have to do stunts for a while.

[00:12:43] Yeah, Jake Gyllenhaal almost played Spider-Man until eventually they got Tobey back. But yeah, it could have been him. There was a little drama to say the least. And so there's like a lot of layers to this too because like you said, we've got Jake Gyllenhaal waiting in the-

[00:12:57] He's on set in a Spider-Man costume. He's ready to go. So there's disputes there. So people said that maybe it wasn't just that he was injured, but it was really like he was playing a card to say like, give me more money. Right? Right.

[00:13:18] I think he initially offered for like 10% of the back end. He was like, give me that. And they told him no. Also at the time, Kirsten Dunst has talked about this. She's talked about how little she got paid for these Spider-Man movies in comparison to

[00:13:36] her counterparts, her male counterparts. She talks about like how she didn't even know that she could ask for certain amounts and just like how insane it was. So when all this stuff came out about like Tobey and his negotiating and what they were

[00:13:52] able to come back with, like $17 million is the salary he got. And she like not even close. And a lot of people argue that she shouldn't have gotten as much or even close. But Mary Jane is a huge factor in the Spider-Man story.

[00:14:09] Like it's insane that people would even say that. No one's saying that she like obviously she's not doing the same stunts that Tobey was doing and so on. But like I question how much even James Franco got.

[00:14:21] And I bet you it's still a lot more than she got. And I would say she's second lead essentially in this movie. Oh yeah. 100%. Yeah. Mary Jane is sort of the heart of the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies. And yeah, absolutely.

[00:14:35] Like any actor should probably be getting paid more than they actually are. Like everybody should be getting paid more than they actually are in general in all genres. No, I say I would say women should be paid more. Yes, absolutely. Because like. Yeah, 100%.

[00:14:48] And the pay disparity there is insane. And that's an issue across Hollywood and across all industries. And so yeah, Kirsten Dunst absolutely probably deserved a bigger payday for Spider-Man 2. But you're right. I mean, I think that's where like 17 million. He is Spider-Man.

[00:15:01] Like, yeah, they could have switched him out because Sam Raimi was like, I don't give a fuck. I got Jake Gyllenhaal. I'm not out here playing with you because he also hurt his back even more because he had just filmed Seabiscuit.

[00:15:14] So all the horse riding just made his injury even worse. So he pretty much lost his job. Jake Gyllenhaal was going to replace him. And at the time, he was dating Ronald Myers' daughter, who I think he ended up marrying and having his two daughters with.

[00:15:31] And obviously, he's the head of Universal Studios. So he is really what got him his role back and a $17 million paycheck. So nepotism in high regard here, essentially. Well, and Jake Gyllenhaal had been dating Kirsten Dunst.

[00:15:51] But they had broken up by the time they were going to shoot Spider-Man 2. And so Sam Raimi was concerned that like the chemistry would have been off. I thought it was. He was worried about the chemistry. Yeah, so he had date.

[00:16:06] So Toby at this point, Toby McGuire and Kirsten Dunst had broken up. Had dated. Oh, OK. Got it. And so they were worried about them not having the chemistry. But didn't she date? She did. That's what makes it so this whole thing is so crazy. It's messy.

[00:16:18] It's so juicy. It's so messy. It is. They did date and I believe I don't know if it was right after this or while this was happening, but they started dating and they did it for a long time.

[00:16:32] Eventually, Toby McGuire and Jake Gyllenhaal stopped trying to pretend they didn't look like the same person, different plot. And like they did do a movie together with Natalie Portman a few years later. I think it's called like Brothers. Brothers, right? They play brothers. Yeah.

[00:16:48] They look so much alike. Yeah. Kirsten has a type essentially, I guess. Yeah, there you go. And they did eventually get Jake Gyllenhaal in a Spider-Man movie years later. Yes. In the Tom Holland ones. Correct. So, yeah, there was drama. There was drama.

[00:17:05] There were several actors that were considered for the part of Dr. Octopus that included Ed Harris, Chris Cooper and Christopher Walken. Christopher Walken. I'd love to see the Christopher Walken. That would be very, very funny. That's too much.

[00:17:19] You can't have room to foe in one movie and then Christopher Walken? That's too silly. Yeah, when Christopher Walken shows up in Dune Part 2, mwah. It's so good. We were playing, just side note, we were playing a cinema... Which game was it?

[00:17:36] Like it's a game where it has a card and it tells you an actor and you could either name like do seven degrees of separation with two actors or you could take one actor and like

[00:17:47] list as many of their movies as possible in a time frame against your competitors. So we did that as a family. It was my whole family versus me. And I think we pulled up Willem Dafoe and in my head I was like Christopher Walken. So I was going.

[00:18:04] I was, even though in our Spider-Man episode I admitted fully with my full chest that I had saw those pictures of Willem Dafoe and thought he was hot. And y'all shamed me for that. I stand by that. I don't think I did that.

[00:18:23] But yeah, just that could be a fun bonus clip. But I just thought that was funny. Willem Dafoe was not originally supposed to be in this movie or return, but get this, he was walking. Yeah.

[00:18:36] He was walking back to his apartment one night and saw the cast and crew filming nearby. He stopped by the set to say hello and the filmmakers decided to give him a cameo appearance.

[00:18:48] Which ends up being like the linchpin, like tease for the next movie kind of appearance, which it's so funny that that was not originally meant to be there. Yeah. Willem on his phone called his agent and was like, where they at? Cause I need to check.

[00:19:01] I'm gonna walk by. Are you right? I can say some lines, right? That costs money. I just want to see him in a booth making that, that laugh. That's all I want to see. Oh yeah. That footage has to exist somewhere. Yeah.

[00:19:18] Oh, and I looked Jake Gyllenhaal and Kirsten Dunst dated from 2002 to December 2004. So they dated during the filming of this movie. Wow. So crazy. I wonder how much he was going to get paid. Was he going to get that 17 mil? Probably not. Yeah. I would imagine. Yeah.

[00:19:43] All right. Okay. We'll get into the movie. I have so many like thoughts that came through my mind while watching this. Okay. So obviously, since I remember shockingly little about this movie, I'm probably not

[00:19:56] the go to, to progress the dialogue, but we can let my guest lead if you want. Yes. Don't challenge him. He'll do it. Sony Pictures presents. We hear Danny Elfman's score come through as a montage of scenes from the first movie

[00:20:13] where you're seeing flashbacks of the opening credits, which that Danny Elfman score so, so great. And then yeah, it opens similarly to the first movie where you're having a Peter Parker's voiceover kind of telling you what he's been up to in the intervening years between the first movie.

[00:20:26] He's in college now and he's doing Spider-Man and he's still pining after Mary Jane, despite knowing that he can't be with her because of the danger that to him being Spider-Man possesses and all that stuff.

[00:20:37] So the first few minutes is just a reestablishing status quo, try to get you caught up with what's going on in Peter Parker's life and then he delivers pizza and it's great. I mean, right down to the first couple of minutes of this movie is just like iconic.

[00:20:49] I don't know how else to describe it. One of the cameos, well, I guess they're not cameos, they're like retro cameos now that it's all people that are famous now in these tiny little roles. Oh sure, yeah. Like, whoa, Asif Manvi's the pizza owner? Like the shop owner?

[00:21:02] That's amazing. Yeah, Asif Manvi. Emily Deschanel's getting the pizza. I was on the phone with my mom, I said, that's bones. But the, oh, he stole that guy's pizza. Like that specific moment when he goes down the alleyway and comes out as Spider-Man to deliver the pizza.

[00:21:18] I don't know what it's been, but for 20 years, whoa, he stole that guy's pizza has been in my brain forever. Isn't that the guy from Chappelle's show who says that? He's in a lot of Chappelle's shows. Yes. Yeah.

[00:21:30] I don't know his name, but he's in a lot of Chappelle's shows. Yes. And then I mean like Daniel Day Kim pops up in this movie later on as Otto, Dave's assistant. And Vanessa Frolito from Death Proof is Mary Jane's co-star in the play.

[00:21:41] And yeah, Joel McHale's the bank teller. Hal Sparks is in the elevator. Joy Bryant is just randomly in the crowd screaming, go Spider-Man, go. It's Donnell Rawlings. It took me a second because I couldn't remember, but yeah, he's the one who says that.

[00:21:57] Yeah, Phil Lamarr is on the train. Yeah, Elizabeth Banks is Betty Brant. Yeah, good stuff. And I think that's part of obviously these are all people that kind of popped up later. But like, I think what's so cool about Sam Raimi's Spider-Man movies is they really capture

[00:22:09] like the character of New York in a really fun way, especially compared to the other Spider-Mans, which place less emphasis on that, I think, especially the Tom Holland ones, which like one of them is like he's in Europe now. Like I don't know.

[00:22:20] Spider-Man to me is like very quintessentially New York superhero. And I think these three movies like really do a lot of work to make New York feel like a vibrant place with like a lot of people with inner lives. Queens is like the other character in Spider-Man.

[00:22:35] Like, yeah, it's like with Batman and God, now I can't think of the city. It's like it's like Batman in Gotham City. Like it's a part of the ethos of everything. It's another character. So it's so weird.

[00:22:50] But I do have a random question when we're just because we're talking about New York. We know so many characters from the comic books are in New York City. You've got Daredevil in Hell's Kitchen. You've got obviously Spider-Man. There just so many people scattered around.

[00:23:08] You got Jessica Jones. Everybody is in Manhattan. You've got is she Hulk in Manhattan and New York? Yes. Yeah, I think she hulks in New York. So or she in California. I think she's in New York.

[00:23:21] I did watch the show and I'm blanking on exactly what it was. I'm pretty sure Doctor Strange is New York also. Yeah, Doctor Strange is in New York. So everyone's in New York. But the Daily Bugle only has Spider-Man on the cover every goddamn day.

[00:23:35] There's so much stuff happening. It's always bothered me so much. Even like when Jackie was talking about us going to Universal and the Spider-Man ride. And I'm just like, but what about the other characters? Do they ever get on this newspaper cover? Sure.

[00:23:50] Well, that's because of J. Jonah Jameson's obsession with Spider-Man. He is hyper fixated. His whole career is solely fixated on Spider-Man and him unmasking who's Spider-Man is. It's one of the funniest parts of the movie with when he's like eulogizing Spider-Man

[00:24:09] and how maybe this was all a mistake. And then, of course, he steals his suit back. He's a criminal. I'll get you, Spider-Man. He raises fists to the sky. It's perfect. I think he's just in love, y'all. Oh, yeah. 100%.

[00:24:20] Yeah, he's there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's a there's

[00:24:22] There's a deleted scene from this movie that has JK Simmons like in the Spider-Man suit. Have you guys seen the scene? It's really great. Yeah, it's yeah, it's a deleted scene that I think it's included on the extended version or something.

[00:24:33] But it's like in the montage of like, I think it's in the raindrops keep falling on my head montage like the Spider-Man no more. He's like without powers. Then the suit is in the Daily Bugle and you see J. Jonah Jameson in the Spider-Man suit

[00:24:44] pretending to be Spider-Man on his desk. He's like doing with the web shooters like he's got the cigar in his mouth and everything and like the rest of the Daily Bugle employees like quietly watching him through the window like oh my god. It's a really great scene. Yes.

[00:24:59] And JK Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson is just so fabulous. Like yeah, it just perfectly cast. Yeah, so good that they couldn't recast him for the new movies. They had to bring him back. They had to bring him back.

[00:25:15] Couldn't try and then they were like we gotta just have him. We can't. Yeah, he's the best. I love all being every scene of the Daily Bugle which they do this in all three movies but

[00:25:23] each one of them plays like just a 1940s screwball comedy like it's his girl Friday all of a sudden and everybody's like talking so fast and snapping back and his performance like kind of anchors those scenes and it's so so funny. It's so good.

[00:25:35] I think one of the things that happens in this movie that I find so relatable and I like it but always it always frustrates me too at the same time because I felt this way

[00:25:45] when I was watching Falcon and Winter Soldier or Captain America Winter Soldier TV show about Sam like having money problems and the same thing with Spider-Man in this movie. He is really struggling to make ends meet and so is his aunt.

[00:26:03] It's a huge part of the plot of this movie and I'm just like I wonder like I would think it would be really interesting to see if they could make like a GoFundMe for Spider-Man or something because he shouldn't be out here struggling. He shouldn't.

[00:26:21] The city's turned against him. Nobody likes Spider-Man because of J. Jonah Jameson and also GoFundMe didn't exist at this point. This was 2004. I know but like it's just it's crazy that poor Peter, I was really mad at him at the

[00:26:35] scene because like his boss tells him he needs to get these pizzas because he has like a guarantee if it's not there in a certain amount of time. 29 minutes or less. They're not paying for it and so I don't know why the fuck Peter got on that motherfucking

[00:26:49] bike when dude. You gotta start as Spider-Man. Start swinging bitch like come on. He's got like eight minutes at that point to get like 40 blocks or something right? Like something crazy.

[00:27:02] And then he gets there and he fumble in the back some more in the damn closet trying to deliver that Spider-Man bitch like she gonna call your boss like come on. The way he's holding those pizzas sideways. I'm like they're gonna be free anyway. Right?

[00:27:21] He just it's like for someone so smart. Why are you so stupid? Yeah, he has a rough go of it in this movie especially. I mean I think one of my favorite things about the Sam Raimi movies too is that they really

[00:27:35] get right the idea that like everything has to be going wrong in Peter Parker's life at all times. It's sort of like that Spider-Man dichotomy where if things are going well for Spider-Man Peter Parker has to be suffering.

[00:27:47] If things are going well for Peter Parker, Spider-Man has to be in like serious trouble. Which I don't understand because they are the same person. Like he's not compart to them. I think it's him trying to figure out how to meld those two identities and they're because

[00:28:02] they're two different lives. His Spider-Man life is private to just himself and nobody around him can be part of it and all that stuff. And so yeah I think the way I think this movie gets that the best out of any Spider-Man movie

[00:28:13] is except for maybe Spider-Verse which I think does this very well too. We're just like yeah things have to be going really poorly for every for Peter Parker specifically and like all of his relationships have to be like torn asunder.

[00:28:25] Like I don't know if Peter Parker is not suffering then there's something missing in a Spider-Man movie I think. I just I I know I don't know if this happens as much with female superheroes but like

[00:28:39] I just think of like Buffy the Vampire Slayer how she has like I'm in a Buffy rewatch right now actually. It's great. It's the best. When I think about the Scooby gang it is a source of power for her to have her inner circle

[00:28:52] and friends and family that know about her powers and help her. And then I always look at the superhero movies where they use it as a plot point that they can't be with the woman they love. They can't be with they can't tell a friend.

[00:29:06] They're so ostracized and by themselves essentially dealing with this and I never understand the lack of community that some of these superheroes can have. Sure it's definitely a Spider-Man will do anything but go to therapy thing.

[00:29:27] I mean I think the argument is always like in these kinds of superheroes where they have a secret identity. The reason they have a secret identity is because they don't want their secret to get

[00:29:35] out and their loved ones will be in danger that that that's always the issue. But I think in this movie Mary Jane gets in danger anyway. So like yeah she knows by the end. She knows by the end.

[00:29:46] I think that's part of like the growth of the character is like allowing people into his circle and specific specifically Mary Jane. And there's also hints in this movie that like a couple other people may also know about it. Right. Yeah. Specifically Aunt May.

[00:30:01] But then also I think Robbie from the Daily Bugle also knows about it. There's a moment where they're talking to J.J. Oda-Jabeson and he's like, I heard Spider-Man was there and gives Peter the side eye. He's got his guesses. I just always felt like that.

[00:30:17] And I can use that in my own real life where why am I struggling alone when the whole point is that you have people in your life that you should be depending on. They want you to share.

[00:30:31] And yeah I know Peter cares about people being in danger but there's ways around that. There's way things that you could do to have like plans but like we already said if they're

[00:30:39] in the know then like they can be better prepared to not be kidnapped by the bad guy. Just constantly being kidnapped. I'd be damned if I'm friends with Peter and I'm in my best moo moo getting ready for bed

[00:30:51] with my Rolison and then a bitch is kidnapping me in my skivvies in the middle of the night and I gotta go to work the next day. Making you say the Hail Mary or whatever happened to Aunt May in the first place. From Eva!

[00:31:02] I think that's what I appreciate about the MCU Spider-Man is that like Ned knows from the get and he's like ride or die for your boy. And he like he knows there's a certain amount of danger knowing that his best friend is

[00:31:20] Spider-Man but like he's still gonna get the suit when Peter needs the suit. But that's what pisses me off is that at the end they retcon all of that. And now he's back in solitude and I'm like I can't go back to the Tobey Maguire day.

[00:31:37] That's what I love about the No Way Home ending. I think No Way Home is a pretty good movie but I think the ending like really like brings it back to pure Spider-Man era.

[00:31:45] I mean I think with Tom Holland I like a lot of his stuff and I think I like the group that they developed for those movies with Ned and with MJ and even Aunt May like openly

[00:31:55] knows about it by the end of the first movie and all that stuff. But I don't know I think that feels more like Spider-Man to me like having to because Peter Parker has to be suffering.

[00:32:05] I just want Peter Parker to not have a good time and really like shoulder the burden of great responsibility. And I think I'm not sure how well it will follow up the ending of No Way Home in whatever upcoming form.

[00:32:19] They've been talking about making Spider-Man 4 for a while and they haven't really gotten it off the ground yet. But I also I don't know that the MCU has a habit of like undoing endings to their previous

[00:32:27] movies and I think I don't know I could see a situation where Spider-Man 4 is like in the first 20 minutes we undid the spell he's back. Yes I'm back baby. I think there needs to be lasting consequences for the hero's actions to really like make

[00:32:42] impactful and so I think for at least one movie I would like Tom Holland on his own like not include that extra supporting cast and maybe introduce some other new characters like bring in a Gwen Stacy or bring in Felicia Hardy.

[00:32:53] Bring Black Cat I can't with that Gwen Stacy bitch I'm done. I would like a live action Spider-Gwen I think that'd be neat but also Spider-Gwen in the animated like you're not going to top it in Spider-Verse so maybe just move it a different direction.

[00:33:05] Well we do see Peter struggling at work like we talked about he gets fired there he gets fired at the Daily Bugle he is struggling. Fired in like air quotes he gets rehired almost immediately. Because he's not taking pictures of Spider-Man anymore essentially because the newspaper

[00:33:21] has made him an enemy of the state essentially so he's not getting those pictures and then he's also late to school getting in trouble with his teacher. Yeah. Supposed to be writing a paper about Dr. Octavius because and he's behind on it and luckily

[00:33:40] he's still friends with what's his name? Dr. Kurt Connors played by Dylan Baker. He's still friends with Harry. Oh Harry yes. He's still friends with. Who is funding Octavius's. Yes. Yeah. So Harry gets Octavius gets an intro with with Peter so they're able to like.

[00:33:59] Harry's been talking shit about Peter to Doc Ock. It is funny every time he you run into Harry in this movie which like the first time is like there's a birthday party at Aunt May's house for Peter and Peter forgot it was his own birthday classic Peter.

[00:34:13] Classic Peter Parker. And MJ and Harry are there and like the second like MJ and Aunt May are like out of earshot he's like you still taking photos of your friend the bug? Such a weirdo. Really holding on to that grudge. I mean like.

[00:34:30] I get it he thinks that yeah my daddy was on Hinge but the bug killed my daddy like I get it. I don't understand why Peter just and maybe he just so far gone he won't hear it regardless.

[00:34:42] Yeah but it's just kind of like my dude I didn't kill your daddy your daddy killed himself. Right yeah but then that would involve him telling Harry that he is Spider-Man and when Harry finds that out at the end of the movie it's his bad reactions.

[00:34:57] Yeah but would he have had a better reaction if he had just told him the truth? I think the core message of this whole thing is that Harry and Peter were never really friends let's get there.

[00:35:09] They were never truly friends because even in the first movie you see that because Harry knows that Peter has always had a crush on MJ and he still goes and dates her so there's

[00:35:20] no bro code there whatsoever and it's so it's almost like why are you hanging around me you're you're my you're secretly my op you're not my friend. Yeah we are not friends and so I think Peter has that inside of him that he knows he can't

[00:35:35] really trust Harry he never I don't think he ever felt like he could trust Harry truly. Sure yeah he cares about him I think he loves him because sometimes especially when you're so young and because Peter has probably abandonment issues or just issues in general he's picked

[00:35:51] on so much he is clinging to the person that was actually semi-kind to him because Harry had enough power in high school to really beat up those bullies or put those bullies in place for picking on Peter.

[00:36:07] Yeah I mean their friendship is based on Harry was rich and smart but lazy brilliant but lazy like they say in this movie all the time the rich but like lazy and needed help with his schoolwork and Peter was helping him with his schoolwork essentially like that's

[00:36:20] their relationship and like their friendship out of high school was sort of based on that but if Peter wasn't like smart kid Peter Parker I'm not sure they would have been friends he would have found another nerd to copy his homework off of.

[00:36:31] That would have been the thing. Well and the audacity for for Harry to tell Otto that Peter was lazy I'm like he's working two jobs you may not know about one of them he's trying to save Aunt May's house like what more do you want from Peter?

[00:36:51] Yeah I want to talk about Aunt May for a second too because I think Rose watching it again and I've seen this movie a million times but watching again Rosemary Harris I think is the MVP of this movie.

[00:36:59] She's unbelievable and I feel like I was on the verge of tears every time she spoke I don't know just every like. So sincere. It's so sincere and yeah the whole eviction notice thing the moment at the birthday party

[00:37:12] when she tries to give Peter $20 and he's trying to give it back to her and she's like take it the whole the whole be a hero speech later in the movie which I think is so powerfully acted and well done.

[00:37:20] Yeah she's great in this movie and she's and she gets a lot of really fun moments too she gets to bunk Dr. Puffers in the head with her cane. She did all her own stunts.

[00:37:29] Yeah she did and she said she loved doing her stunts which go girl I love that. There's that pretty famous Apocryphal story from Alfred Molina that they were in between takes or something and they were up on like 30 feet in the air on wires and stuff just

[00:37:45] hanging out and she just leaned over to him and was like oh I'm classically trained which is incredible. I love that for her. She is amazing she does a really good job as Aunt May so much so that I think like as

[00:38:03] much as I love Marissa Tomei's version and Sally Fields I that's who I think of as Aunt May at this point still in my head. Yeah definitely I like Marissa Tomei a lot in the Holland movies too but it's definitely

[00:38:15] like a newer take on the Gen Z version. The youths. We need an Aunt May that Tony Stark can flirt with. That was the idea. True. And they dated in real life which was super funny like that he recommended her he's like

[00:38:31] my ex-girlfriend would be great for this role. He's just Tony's type. So we had the birthday party now and so we see MJ this is the first time we're seeing MJ and Peter interact and they're having a weird interaction because he has made this decision in his head.

[00:38:53] He does not discuss it. He made it in his head that he is not going to pursue Mary Jane and she is going through some feelings as well because she's kind of like guessing that he is Spider-Man or something

[00:39:07] She knows something is not right and she knows Peter loves her and she loves him and she's trying to figure out what the f*** is going on. Isn't that the last scene of the first one right? I think they're at like a cemetery or something.

[00:39:19] Yeah it's at Norman Osborn's funeral yeah. She's saying like at the end of that movie she's finally like I'm in love with you like let's be together and then that's when he says like no we like they kiss and then he's

[00:39:29] like no we can't and then he walks away. I would have slapped him but you know what Mary Jane is not sitting on her laurels. She's not crying in a corner. She's got a hot new astronaut on her side.

[00:39:42] I screamed when I realized this because again these cameos are these I don't even know if you call this one a cameo but not knowing who Daniel is it Daniel Gillies? Yes yeah he plays John Jameson.

[00:39:56] Daniel Gillies not knowing him back then but knowing him as Elijah from Vampire Diaries and the originals. I was just like how could you leave him girl? How? For no lip Maguire. How?

[00:40:15] The whole time every time he was on screen I was like who's this not James Marsden? I always think it's James Marsden when I think back because James Marsden plays a similar role in another movie like this and I can't remember which one it is.

[00:40:31] All of them I think. I mean he plays a similar role in the notebook. Yeah. We wouldn't know. I'm not going to answer. But yes I was like oh James Marsden he's in Spider-Man 2 and then I was like it's Elijah oh my god I was so excited.

[00:40:50] Yeah I mean she's dating the hot new astronaut JJ, JJonah Jameson's son. Hot new astronaut just dropped. Yeah and she's also like the lead of a play like she's a lead of a Broadway play The Importance of Being Earnest and so she's doing she's doing great.

[00:41:04] She's doing great without Peter but she does she does still have that like in the back of her mind like I do still love Peter and she like throws it out there in a conversation

[00:41:10] with him like I'm seeing someone just a heads up just like age a reaction and he's like oh that's great. The way Kirsten Dunst is phoning it in in this movie like I know she's a good actress. Yeah I disagree. I think she's so great in these movies.

[00:41:30] She ain't got why she looks so sickly. Did she get a cancer diagnosis in this movie? Where is the makeup? She's so lovesick. Where's the lip? Give me a lip. It has no lip color. You are an actress ma'am. It's nude, neutral, pale.

[00:41:48] And that hair color does nothing for her. I know MJ is like red but like you can make her like a red with some dimension so it doesn't wash her out completely. It was the way she said what was it I'm getting married in a church.

[00:42:06] I'm like what the fuck was that line? The close-ups I said why why why why why we did this to baby girl like this? She ain't never looked this bad. I think she looks great in this movie. I think she looks really good.

[00:42:24] You are out of line sir. Reclaiming my time. Reclaiming my time. There ain't no way Mike you ain't gonna talk about it like that. I'm sorry. She this is the worst I ever seen her and she's played a drug addict. Okay? She looks pale.

[00:42:44] She looks and she's played a vampire and she wasn't that pale. It's giving mediocrity. It looks like she was crying in between every scene and then she's like okay I can do this I can do this I can do this.

[00:43:01] And then she just went in like ran through her lines and then ran back off set to continue crying. Peter I know that you know I love you. Like what the fuck is going on?

[00:43:17] See I think that sort of fits like as if she was like crying off screen. That's fits with almost every scene that she has in this movie. That's I think she's playing very much into the melodrama aspect of it all.

[00:43:27] She does just want Peter to show up and he just he just can't make it. He tried he couldn't get there. Like Mary Jane is spunky like she's funky in the first movie a bit.

[00:43:40] I know that she she decided to actually color her hair red for this movie instead of wearing the wig. The hair color is so it washes her out. Because she's already fair-skinned something about that red color is not doing it.

[00:43:58] The last one the red was very bright so it gives a lift. And I'm telling you guys I'm not a makeup artist. I'm not but she I don't know who gave notes to tell them to make her look like she's getting around a chemo.

[00:44:14] I'm not saying like that's how the life is just sickly. She looks not well and I don't understand why what was the choice in this? It's not it's not great. Also James Marsden played a similar role in Superman Returns. That's what it was. Yeah, he does play.

[00:44:36] He's like Lois Lane's boyfriend in that movie. Yes. Yes. I should speak to the hair color. It was I just had this conversation with my girlfriend the other day.

[00:44:43] But we were talking about watching Spider-Man 2 and then afterwards like, you know, we were talking about some of the Spider-Mans and you're talking about MJ and she's like, oh didn't Emma Stone play her once?

[00:44:51] And I was like no Emma Stone played you when she did you push your glasses up before you answer. Well, actually, I'm just not playing Gwen Stacy and she's like, oh but doesn't MJ have red hair? I was like, yeah, but Emma Stone did have red hair.

[00:45:03] But then when she was cast as Gwen Stacy, they're like, oh, she's actually blonde and everybody's like wait what? Like well, I remember when I was so it is. Yeah, but I remember when Emma Stone was first cast as Gwen Stacy up to that point.

[00:45:14] She had only been seen with red hair because of EZA and Superbad and The Rocker like she always had red hair in those movies and then she was cast and it was like, oh, she's playing MJ and I was like, psych.

[00:45:23] She's actually blonde and she's playing Gwen Stacy. We also see that Peter is like severely behind on his rent like a month or something and the landlord keeps harassing him. And then the landlord says something about if promises were crackers, my daughter would be fat.

[00:45:43] What a weird dig at that. Okay, hear me out. His daughter. Does she not look like she could play Helga in the Hey Arnold live action? Think about it. Oh my God. I'm not trying to be mean. No hate to this actress.

[00:46:05] But that's all I was thinking about every time I saw her. I was like, that's Helga. Yeah. She's in fourth grade, I think so that might be tricky. She's tall as hell. It's Helga grown up, whatever. She looks like him. Her, I mean.

[00:46:24] I love that scene when I think it's around here where Peter's like, well, I've got this 20 bucks for the rest of the week and before he's finished the sentence, the landlord says yes. Classic landlord move.

[00:46:35] I would be calling the city because there's some violations in that house alone. Okay? With the bathroom in the hallway and all that. Sure, yeah. Peter doesn't use his suit enough.

[00:46:48] I would wear that Spider-Man suit swoop in on that damn man on the toilet and say, if you don't leave Peter Parker alone, you're going to have webs coming out your asshole. I'm going to web your asshole shut. Yes. Leave my boy Peter alone. Poor Peter.

[00:47:07] Love that guy though. Mr. Dikovic. I knew you would know the name. Of course. He's behind on his friend, he's slipping in his grades. It's a bad time for Peter Parker. Can't even make the show on time, which I do love that whole sequence.

[00:47:23] And really all the action in this movie is top tier as far as superhero action goes. There's so much inventive camera work and stuff they do with the suit and everything around the action choreography and the fight scenes that just looks so dynamic and fun.

[00:47:36] And yeah, that sequence where he's on the bike and the bike gets run over by the car and he has to do the backflip and all that stuff. And he webs up the thing in the street. It's very, very good. Yeah, that was a really good scene.

[00:47:47] Probably the best Bruce Campbell cameo as the Usher. That's true. Yeah, Bruce Campbell plays the Usher. Yeah, Bruce Campbell makes a cameo appearance as three different characters across all three Spider-Man movies. And the longstanding rumor has always been that secretly he was playing Mysterio the entire time.

[00:48:02] But they never got to make that movie. So yeah, it didn't get to happen. But that would have been a fun thing. Who is he in the third one? I don't remember. In the third one, he is the snooty French waiter. Oh, yes!

[00:48:16] When Peter's trying to propose to MJ and wacky shenanigans are happening behind him, it's Bruce Campbell that's doing them. Classic. But yeah, Bruce Campbell has said I think this cameo is his favorite of them.

[00:48:26] Because he says he's the only guy that ever got to win against Spider-Man as the Usher in this movie. I would have slapped the shit out of him. You won't let me in this theater. I didn't come here all...

[00:48:37] And going back to your comment about the camera work. They created a camera system called the Spider-Cam. Which allowed the filmmakers to express more Spider-Man's world view. And at times they dropped it 50 stories with a shot length of just over 2400 feet in New York or 3200 feet in LA.

[00:49:04] I don't know what the difference is between that. But... New York and LA are... New York's taller, I guess. Apparently. Yeah, I mean, that's a very Sam Raimi thing. Throughout his entire career, he's built his entire career on extremely dynamic camera movement.

[00:49:23] And that goes back to the Evil Dead trilogy. You have that in Darkman, Quick and the Dead, and all those films. And those all kind of build to his Spider-Man movies. And I think Spider-Man 2 is like...

[00:49:31] In a way, as far as having a director with a distinct style. It's up there with The Dark Knight. This is very distinctly... It's a Spider-Man movie. It's also very distinctly a Sam Raimi movie. And that's part of why I love about it.

[00:49:45] It's a movie where the horror element comes out. Like you could see it. And I do appreciate it. Yeah, the scene with Doc Ock in the hospital where the doctors are operating on him. Is straight out of Evil Dead 2. It includes a chainsaw, actually. Which is always great.

[00:50:01] But yeah, that whole sequence is amazing. The fingernails scraping against the floor. Yeah, I was like, oh my god. As the girl's getting pulled away. It's great. But didn't he... Sorry, did he direct the Doctor Strange movie? He directed the second one, Multiverse of Madness.

[00:50:20] Which was his first movie in nine years. And I think it's a pretty fun movie. But it's not nearly as good as these ones. I don't blame him. I blame the person who wrote the script of that movie.

[00:50:30] Because they just came out recently and said that they hadn't even watched the... WandaVision? WandaVision hadn't finished by the time they were making this movie. That was the thing. They hadn't made... They were still shooting WandaVision while this was happening. Could they have not talked?

[00:50:47] Could they have not said, this is... Come on. You know where you're going with it. That wasn't true. Let's get back to what we were saying. I'll say one last thing about Multiverse of Madness. I think it's a pretty good movie that...

[00:51:01] Almost all of what I like about it is Sam Raimi's direction. And the fact that he had so much fun bringing in all these cameos. Only to kill them off immediately. I think that was so funny.

[00:51:11] I was at the Pax Theater and was expecting big reactions when the cameos showed up. And they did. And my audience just felt dead silent. Amazing. I loved when they killed Agent Carter or whatever she was. That was so great.

[00:51:23] Because she says the line, I can do this all day. Like Cats of America. And my theater applauded. And that applaud stopped halfway through. Because she immediately gets sliced in half by her own shield. I was laughing. I was cackling because I hate her. I hate the actress.

[00:51:40] Let's continue. Sorry. One of my favorite scenes, and I think also one of the most iconic famous scenes from Spider-Man 2. Is when the taxi gets thrown through the coffee shop. And that whole dive spin thing. I remember talking to one of my friends.

[00:51:54] And he pointed out that's an insane thing to do for Doc Ock. Obviously because he's a crazy villain. But Peter only survives that because he's Spider-Man. So if he doesn't know he's Spider-Man. He's just killed Peter Parker. And he's like, I'm going to kill you.

[00:52:06] And he's like, I'm going to kill you. And he's like, I'm Spider-Man. He's just killed Peter Parker. Which is hilarious. And who cares about that because the next moment we get to do cool Sam Raimi shit. As the camera zooms in with the footsteps of Doc Ock.

[00:52:18] And that's all I need in a movie. Is cool Sam Raimi shit. When I was in high school I took a film editing class. And one assignment that we had was to take one of your DVDs from home. And re-edit a sequence from the movie.

[00:52:28] With new sound effects. New music or whatever. So I took that sequence. The scene where Doc Ock gets killed. And I cut out the score and replaced it with. Rock you like a hurricane. Incredible. And it really worked. It was really fun.

[00:52:47] I think we're at the point where we meet Doc Ock. Yes. So we meet him. Peter meets him. He gets that introduction from Harry. And they connect obviously because they're science nerds. And so they meet. And they're like, oh, I'm so excited to meet you.

[00:53:03] And he's like, I'm so excited to meet you. And so he's showing him his new invention. Like we said. Or what is his company called? Harry's company. Oscorp. Oscorp is funding everything. His research. And so he's going into detail. We meet his wife.

[00:53:24] Played by the amazing Donna Murphy. I love that she gets top billing even though she's in it for like a few minutes. She gets like one nice scene and then she dies basically. I love her as an actress. I love her. Mainly from Broadway. Fair enough.

[00:53:38] I love that Octavius immediately takes a liking to Peter. Teaching him about poetry and love and philosophy and all this stuff. Just so he could immediately turn evil. Yeah. I also like when Peter first shows up Octavius seems a little bit like,

[00:53:48] I gotta deal with this college kid writing a paper. I gotta do it because Oscorp's funding it and all that kind of stuff. But the second Peter starts observing what he's doing and is able to like, oh, and you're doing this to like, you're doing this to like,

[00:53:58] you're doing this to like, you're doing this to like, Oh, and you're doing this to like, do that. Like you can see in Alpha Molina's face like, oh, okay, this kid's like brighter than I gave him credit for. And then they start bonding right after that.

[00:54:15] Like it's that like a subtle shift in Alpha Molina's performance there, which I think is really cool. And Sam Raimi said that one choosing Molina to play this role was, he saw the movie Frida that he had just been in. And so just,

[00:54:25] I think when they were looking at, they had a lot of iterations of writing this script. And one of the iterations was like, and one of the iterations had it that they were going to change the age so that Doc Ops would be the same age as Peter,

[00:54:39] like up here. And then they changed it so that he's more of somebody that Peter would look up to. And so if you look at him and his wife, it's almost like a slap in the face because this is everything that Peter can't have

[00:54:53] in his life or as Spider-Man. So you're seeing that parallel. And I think it's really interesting how you look at him being such a normal person and you could tell that the tentacles have taken over. And they talk about this, they talk about what prevents

[00:55:12] these things from taking you over. And he's like, oh, this chip. And we learn that later on. The neuroinhibitors. The nanotechnology. The nanobots. Science! Everything movies thought nanobots were going to be, maybe the AI scourge has turned out to be.

[00:55:33] That's what they should have been preparing us for. But when you guys were talking about that scene about how Doc Ops just throws I keep saying op instead of oc, but whatever. Doc Ops, when he throws the car and you're like you're going to kill Peter Parker.

[00:55:51] He has no control. Those tentacles are not fucking thinking. They're like destroy. They don't care. Yeah, absolutely. And I think Alfred Molina too. At this point, he was cast off of Frida. I think what's so cool about casting Alfred Molina at this point especially is

[00:56:11] he wasn't a big name. He was a well-known character actor. He had made a career of 20 years of being in 15th Build-In movies for a long time. I think he was best known probably for being the guy who dies It's not that he was an unknown

[00:56:28] but he was just a really good working actor that was sort of familiar to the public, but not by name. And I think if that role were cast today a lot of superhero movies tend to go for who's the biggest name going right now?

[00:56:42] Can we cast Jake Gyllenhaal as Mysterio? And I think having Alfred Molina and being like, oh yeah, he's just a really good actor we want to work with him and he'll do great. And he does. He's great. I do love when they invest in actors who are

[00:56:56] maybe not as well-known or character actors they bump them up because I feel like the performances reflect it so much more because they're really giving their all like when you think about when they first had Thor, right? Oh sure, yeah. Chris Hemsworth was nobody. And he doesn't really

[00:57:18] talk shit about Thor like if you look at all the other Marvel players they have said some things, they have issues and it wasn't until the last movie that he really started saying anything really but he was always completely gung-ho he's like I'll come back for another movie

[00:57:35] another movie because he is invested in that character and I think it's because of how he got that character instead of shunning it they all have this routine where they shun it because it's so popular it's overwhelming for them and then years later they realize

[00:57:52] they should appreciate it. It's like they all need that time away. Then a dump truck of money gets to their house and they get to star in the next one is how it works I think that's what happened with Tobey Maguire yeah, I think he got paid

[00:58:04] and that was a huge factor of him coming into the new movies but also I think he has appreciation for the fan base now that he has some time away from it Oh yeah, absolutely. No Way Home was just such a victory lap

[00:58:20] all of the actors from both this trilogy of movies and the Andrew Garfield movies where it's like oh yeah, people grew up in these movies people like them and even though some of them were less well received than others

[00:58:30] there's still people who want to see you play that character again that's great and Tobey Maguire, before Spider-Man he was in a lot of indie movies yeah this is Pleasantville Erasure yeah, I think his biggest thing was Pleasantville but still it's very good so we meet his family

[00:58:52] and then I think it's like the next day where we get to see him do his presentation he goes to see Mary Jane in between this no? yeah, at this point I think maybe it's after this scene when he tries to go to the show

[00:59:10] and he gets kicked out and he's not able to go but yeah, then he's trying to see Mary Jane he's trying to call her, she won't return his calls while all this is going on he is losing faith in himself he's getting depressed

[00:59:25] he's had a really hard time of it lately and he's starting to lose his Spider-Man powers and that's something that he's sort of dealing with and trying to figure out why this is happening so yeah, he'll be web swinging and suddenly his web won't work

[00:59:39] and he's just falling sometimes falling really hard just banging his back on the car and flapping back onto the street and so yeah, there's scenes of him going to the doctor to try to get to the root of what the problem could be without actually revealing

[00:59:53] that he's Spider-Man my friend's got this dream where he's Spider-Man and that scene was so intimate with the doctor the doctor sitting with him I had to do a double take in this scene because I was like is that Michael Bay? wow, great poem

[01:00:13] it would have been a great cameo I was like, who is this man? he's got done shooting Bad Boys 2 and rolled over to the Spider-Man 2 set he's wearing a Grateful Dead t-shirt under his lab coat what is going on with this doctor? and I just feel like

[01:00:30] who do superheroes go to to help them with this stuff what if he really was sick what if he did lose his powers he's probably so anxiety ridden and that anxiety, that depression that loss of self is causing him to

[01:00:47] he's got the yips, he can't be Spider-Man anymore he's losing his powers and eventually this happens later I guess but eventually he decides I'm done, I'm not being Spider-Man anymore I'm losing my powers and it's destroying my life anyway I just have to be Peter Parker

[01:01:07] then you have the presentation with the doctor trying to showcase his precious tritium to the world yeah, the presentation goes badly it goes horribly wrong he's not listening he's not reading the room there's like solar flares happening and everything is like shh maybe and he's just like no

[01:01:29] it's going to stabilize I have faith in the tiny sun I just created so no, it's bad it's real bad out here yeah, and so one small miscalculation and the thing becomes too powerful and it starts becoming super magnetic and people's stuff starts flying off their bodies

[01:01:46] and going into the solar, into the power of the sun and yeah, things are going crazy going haywire and yeah, Spider-Man has to swoop in try to save the day but Rosie is killed in all the chaos and her death scene is incredible too

[01:02:00] with the shard of glass that's flying towards her and you see the reflection of her screaming face in the glass it's gnarly and it's heartbreaking at this point I think the tentacles have taken over I'm not sure it's in this scene it's in this

[01:02:18] you see the inhibitor chip get fried from the thing because there's a moment where he sees that his wife is in danger and he wants to go there but the tentacles wrap around him because their prime motive is to protect him

[01:02:34] they don't give a shit about his wife they don't know nothing about her but he's not in control anymore because his wife is dead and his tentacles were not trying to help at all they were like fuck a bitch let's protect ourselves yeah, so Rosie gets killed

[01:02:53] Doc Ock gets taken away he gets knocked unconscious and taken to the hospital where they're going to try to saw the arms off but obviously things go badly there and Harry is mad about the whole situation mad that he wasted so much money on this

[01:03:08] all I have left is Spider-Man in that scene at the experiment when Spider-Man swings in and saves Harry and he makes sure to take a moment and yell this doesn't change anything so Spider-Man goes ok I'm glad we got that out of your system so petty

[01:03:28] and like Doc Ock he gets back on his feet and he's robbing banks he's a man with a plan he wants it good that bank robbery scene is one of my favorite things ever it's so good you're in the bank because

[01:03:46] Peter and Aunt May are trying to get a loan to help her secure her housing situation and Joel McHale as the snide bank teller is like well listen the amount of money you're asking for we can't do that

[01:04:00] and then she's like well at least we get this toaster and he's like ah that's worth a deposit of $300 or more and then you look on Aunt May's face when she can't even have a goddamn toaster it's so sad I don't understand

[01:04:13] I know Peter wanted to live his own life but like y'all need to come together with your resources why are y'all paying two separate rents then I'm making the advance you bear the guilt of seeing Aunt May I guess I guess but he needs to get over it

[01:04:31] y'all need to pull your checks together I don't know how this works in the comics it's also in the comics they don't really say this in the movie very much but in the comics with the original run the reason Peter won't tell Aunt May that he is Spider-Man

[01:04:51] is because she has a very weak heart and she's so frail that if she found out that he was Spider-Man she would simply die I would just write a note take a deep breath don't die I'm Spider-Man these movies never say that's the reason

[01:05:10] but I think Ramy is absolutely drawing from the 60s, 70s Spider-Man comics that were very high on melodrama and I think even though that's not made explicit here I think that idea of if I were to tell Aunt May she would surely die

[01:05:26] it's the most 1967 thing I've ever heard if you read those old comics and you just read Mary Jane's dialogue it's very fun because she's basically a 1960s hippie and she's like, oh yeah we're going to the next club Jack, we're swinging around ring-a-ding-ding baby

[01:05:43] that's all of Mary Jane's dialogue for 20 years but yeah you have this scene where they're getting denied this bank loan and then the camera just pans over and you see Dr. Octopus in a trench coat with his arms sticking out

[01:05:57] he's like, alright I'm going to break open the safe he's already been doing stuff in the background just off screen when he throws the thing that goes towards Aunt May and Peter Peter kicks Aunt May's chair across the room it's a slick slot side move

[01:06:15] but then he runs away and Aunt May's like Pizza! Don't leave me yeah my Nana would have cussed me out for the rest of her life if we were in that situation I would have just fucking disappeared without explanation Myrtle doesn't play no

[01:06:34] the guilt trip of it all so yeah now Peter's like, great I got another motherfucker on my radar like I don't have enough to deal with as it is because at this point he's given up Spider-Man and Doc Oc is becoming a problem yes absolutely

[01:06:54] I think he's about to give up Spider-Man after this but yeah Doc Oc is becoming a problem and they have this huge fight in the bank where they're throwing change and I love that it's complete with this old school vibe

[01:07:04] all of the money is in big burlap sacks with dollar signs on it and yeah Doc Oc is trying to get this money to raise the resources to get more tritium to fuel his reactor again and while he's doing this he kidnaps Aunt May

[01:07:18] he takes her up on the wall of the building and Spider-Man is trying to chase after them and she sees this moment where Spider-Man is charging at Doc Oc and he's about to stab Spider-Man and Aunt May sees him about to do that

[01:07:33] and she's like, oh you awful man and she knocks him on the head with her cane it's great so we just save Spider-Man I love when she's on the building and she's barely hanging on and then she just drops a little bit and she's on the ledge

[01:07:49] and she's like, oh ok, I'm fine and this is the scene that turns Aunt May's opinion towards Spider-Man throughout the first movie and throughout the beginning of this movie when the birthday party is happening and it's like, oh Spider-Man you're still taking pictures of that awful man

[01:08:06] but Spider-Man saved her life and now she likes Spider-Man and she has a great line where it's like, oh we sure showed him what do you mean we? I wanna get a shirt for Aunt May that says, I fucks with Spider-Man now and then I don't know

[01:08:26] the chronological order of things but I do know that Mary Jane's having her own crisis cause she told Peter to kick rocks at this point but at the same time there's an event that happens and her boyfriend proposed to her and she says yes and this is announced

[01:08:46] and he's gotta take the motherfucking picture I know the shame there's so many small details in that sequence alone where Peter can't even get a little hors d'oeuvre on a tray trying to get a glass of champagne yeah just small things like that

[01:09:04] where he can't even catch the tiniest break and it's so good but at this point Peter Parker has given up being Spider-Man and there's a recreation of a very famous Spider-Man cover where it's the suit in the garbage can facing out and then it cuts into a montage

[01:09:21] of him just living his life as a regular person and it's raindrops keep falling on my head which is such a lovely sequence it's so fun he just has so much levity to him he's just bouncing down the street

[01:09:35] and it feels like the kind of thing that most modern superhero movies wouldn't have the time for they wouldn't spend that kind of character moment on and it's such a great sequence and it's him going across the street he's doing better in school he's answering questions

[01:09:49] yeah he's doing better in school and he's able to see the play and MJ is surprised by it but he's also noticing crimes happening and being like it's not my problem anymore I'm going to stuff a hot dog in my mouth a vegan hot dog

[01:10:05] because Tobey Maguire does not eat meat so that was interesting but that scene where he's watching that poor man get rocked in the damn alley you don't have to be Spider-Man to run up and be like hey I see you something it's daylight

[01:10:24] then you see a newspaper that says crime is up 75% that's crazy no Spider-Man in the city it's funny I conflated in my memory this sequence and the sequence in Spider-Man 3 but the cool guy Peter sequence I thought that happens when he's giving up being Spider-Man

[01:10:45] I don't know what happened in my brain I switched those two things around I've also always been very pro cool guy sequence in Spider-Man 3 which has been my hottest take it's fun I loved Emo I like Emo Spidey too

[01:10:59] I think Spider-Man 3 is easily the weakest of these three movies and it's the one that's beset by a lot of problems but the stuff that works in it I think really works and that sequence and the crazy musical sequence where he gets up in the jazz club

[01:11:13] it is all the same so he's watching crime happen he don't give a damn he's living his best life unbothered I've been Spider-Man for so long and I get nothing out of it anymore my life has gone so badly that I have to give this up

[01:11:31] and so he does and doesn't he start dating the landlords or she brings him cake she's been sweating him since the moment she met him I swear every girl in every movie into him in the comic books he has swag he does because he has dated everybody yeah

[01:11:52] that is the weird thing especially post Spider-Man in the first Spider-Man movie before he gets his powers he's a spectacle nerd he doesn't talk to anybody and then he gets his glasses off he has abs now that was my big issue with Andrew Garfield

[01:12:10] I thought he was too good looking to play Peter Parker I don't think Peter Parker is unattractive in the comic books that's what always confuses me he's not unattractive but he's sort of anti-social is maybe the word shy at first sure once he becomes Spider-Man

[01:12:32] he is often actively mean to the people in his life because he's trying to get rid of them that's what brings his relationships down Andrew Garfield though my issue with Peter Parker and Amazing Spider-Man is that before he gets his powers he's already the coolest kid in school

[01:12:51] he's Andrew Garfield he's got cool high hair he's skateboarding the hallways Gwen Stacy is already into him and then he gets the powers now I'm the coolest kid in school and I'm Spider-Man Jackie what were you going to say the chocolate cake she comes in and she's like

[01:13:12] do you want a slice of chocolate cake and some milk but then when they have the dish it looks like it's only chocolate frosting and vanilla cake and I'm like you lied to him you know what I'm ok with that

[01:13:28] for a long time I used to get upset when I would say I want chocolate cake my mom always knew what I meant I want yellow cake with chocolate frosting but that is the superior cake but when someone says do you want chocolate cake

[01:13:42] you assume the cake itself is going to be chocolate that's for the side podcast No More Late Cakes these are the things I paid attention to I was like bitch why did you take so long to watch me eat cake before you gave me my god damn messages

[01:14:00] she's ready to leave she's ready to take the plate and lick it it seems like we made out and now you're like oh by the way you've got a message I do really like what I like about that scene so much is that it's like

[01:14:19] the first small kindness that anyone has given Peter the entire movie every other scene in the movie Peter is getting hit with backpacks everything is going badly getting run over and it's the first time anyone in the movie shows any small kindness to Peter

[01:14:37] it feels like the kind of thing that keeps him going one more day he needed that break he had two very important conversations he tries to leave the message for Mary Jane she's not listening but Mary Jane is having conflicted feelings and she had to nerve

[01:15:02] her hot astronaut boyfriend to lay back on the couch so she can recreate the upside down kiss tip your head back for a second maybe I don't like Spider-Man maybe I don't like Peter I just like kissing upside down let me try this out real quick

[01:15:22] this is a kink for me that I have to get over and it's confirmed he is not the one so she reaches out to Peter on the other hand Peter finally admits from the guilt he's been carrying for the last two years that he feels responsible

[01:15:41] for Uncle Ben dying and he tells his aunt what happened now she doesn't just brush it off and say no worries Peter it wasn't your fault she's like I got to go she feels betrayed that scene is so devastating when he puts his hand on hers

[01:15:59] and she slowly pulls it away oh my god but given time she is able to forgive him and she's ultimately proud of Peter for finally admitting that and letting all that stuff and that is when she has this incredible speech about the need for a hero

[01:16:17] and she's talking about the neighbor kid who looks up to Spider-Man and wonders why we don't see him in the paper anymore and I think it's this moment where it becomes very clear she's keeping it to herself because she knows he doesn't want people to know about it

[01:16:32] but I think that sequence where she gives that speech is some of the best acting in any superhero movie and Rosemary Harris should have won this supporting actress at the Oscars in 2005 he gives a reach a little bit of a reach she's unbelievable she's so good

[01:16:50] who won that year? I just think it's funny because there's no way my mom would have, like if I was secretly a superhero they would have never been like I'm just gonna keep it secret because Danielle doesn't want to know they'd be like

[01:17:04] I know you and Matt Cox first of all I can't sew I need them on my team I don't know how he makes this they'd be hot glued together a hot mess is what it would be I would be on Etsy

[01:17:18] trying to, I need you to make this costume for me it wouldn't work I don't know why he doesn't ask Harry for some damn money I'll let you meet Spider-Man I just need to save Aunt May's house he's not even trying to help

[01:17:33] at this point Harry is actively hiring people to kill Spider-Man so I don't think it's a good idea at all they're always too proud to ask for help in all these movies so true absolutely and yeah, Harry meets up with Doc Ock again and basically tells Doc Ock

[01:17:51] I will give you all the money you need to finish your reactor but you have to bring Spider-Man to me and so Doc Ock agrees and so that scene where Peter meets up with Mary Jane and they finally talk about their relationship

[01:18:04] and at this point he's already met her again having given up being Spider-Man and he tries to get her back and she's like I'm married or I'm engaged, what's wrong with you? why are you doing this now? she's getting married in a church

[01:18:18] yeah, why are you doing this now? and then yeah, she does the head back scene and she does end up calling Peter and she's like okay, let's do this and then again he's like well I'm Spider-Man again he doesn't say that

[01:18:32] but it's like not the thing I thought I didn't have to do I do have to do it now I remember being so frustrated watching him do this shit and be like Mary Jane just married this astronaut and call it a day this dude ain't shit

[01:18:48] I don't care if he's fucking Spider-Man and they're about to kiss she's asking him to kiss her just to know something but then yeah, Doc Ock throws a car through the building, it's awesome and Peter is able to jump down and save her

[01:19:05] but then yeah, Doc Ock comes through and he kidnaps Mary Jane and Peter has to find Spider-Man and have him meet up with Doc Ock and Harry I love movies so there's the scene earlier they're good just because it's so funny sometimes the way structurally

[01:19:23] movies have to do things certain ways there's a scene at the throwaway line at the end of the failed experiment where two survivors are walking together out of the wreckage and one of them just says oh thank god he had so little tritium

[01:19:37] otherwise he would've leveled the city and then they walk off the street and then an hour later Harry's like I'll give you all the tritium we have so you know what the stakes are on just like a metatextual level that movies have to do that

[01:19:52] where is this abandoned building that he's taken Mary Jane to because it looks like it's sinking I'm like what is this but that's not where they meet up I just had that question the scenes on the subway are where it takes oh where Spider-Man's Jesus yes

[01:20:14] that is a huge thing we see it in the Matrix we've seen it many times in different movies the director's cut of Daredevil where he goes up the escalator like Jesus but the train scene it was filmed in Chicago because I kept watching and trying to look

[01:20:37] because really there's a few stops on the 7 train that is outdoors that go from Queens to Manhattan like that I kept trying to think of what other lines did the same thing but it's like it looks familiar but it didn't

[01:20:53] and then when I found out ok they filmed this in Chicago it all clicked for me that's another one of those movie things where it's like this is a subway line that has no stops and just dead ends in the middle of downtown or midtown or whatever

[01:21:07] what is this? This isn't how it trains I love that scene too the abandoned warehouse on the docks feels like such a holdover from 60s and 70s New York where there were just abandoned lots everywhere and the city was bankrupt and there was nothing going on

[01:21:26] but you think about it in late aughts or early aughts there's no unaccounted for peers that's not how that works the whole subway scene is incredible the actual action is amazing that's probably the peak action scene I also really love it reminds me of the Taking a Pelham 123

[01:21:46] the original from the 70s with Walter Matthau it's almost the subject of Cleetwork season 4 that movie is one of the best New York movies ever just capturing the vibe of New York and Spider-Man 2 does a really good job of that and just scenes with

[01:22:02] the passengers on the train Spider-Man is doing his best to try to stop the train as it's running away and it's not working he's just sitting there on the ground being like, you got any more bright ideas? yeah, like such a New Yorker thing to do

[01:22:19] I do love he does stop the train and at some point the thing that always confused me was like Doc wanted him to come so that they could fight so that he could take him to Harry but I don't know if it's just that

[01:22:40] so I'm going to just make him have to catch the train I never understood what is the purpose of this are you tiring him out? I think that would be a valid reason to try to tire him out

[01:22:52] because Spider-Man is going to try to save as many people as he possibly can and that is the reason it's sort of why he comes back to it at the end of his Spider-Man No More thing right before he gets the suit he has that scene where he

[01:23:04] goes into the burning building to save that kid great callback to the first movie which in the first movie it's the green goblin in disguise yeah he's saving that kid in the burning building and he finally gets her out and then at the end of that scene

[01:23:18] somebody comes up and is like some poor soul got stuck on the fourth floor never made it out and I think Peter has that moment where he's like I could have saved that person too if I was fully involved in Spider-Man and all that kind of stuff

[01:23:32] and so by the time you get to the train sequence he's doing everything he can to save as many people as he can so that Spider-Man is distracted by the amount of people he has saved and so he's like lifting people off the train

[01:23:41] and throwing them across the street I totally forgot about that building fire let me ask you a question none of us have kids but we could imagine having a child right first and foremost I don't know how I'm getting out of a building

[01:24:01] and my child is still in the building every man for himself don't ask questions you don't want the answers to the facial expressions of these two parents first of all hello high water you're not stopping me I'm running in that building if my child is in there

[01:24:17] these parents are literally standing outside and they're like well I guess it's insane rewatch just rewatch those two parents because I don't know what direction those two actors were given your child is in a burning building no one is helping she gonna die

[01:24:40] I don't know what they thought they didn't know she was in there she was so young I was having so much anxiety but I was pissed I wanted to call CPS so bad on these motherfucking parents yeah call it on Spider-Man too because at one point he like

[01:24:58] throws the kid over the floor which is a great like man slam down hard and then the kid helps him up it seems like New Yorkers look after each other god damn it you mess with one of us you mess with all of us

[01:25:13] I was like is she two years old how's she picking this bitch up I won't lie the moment in this movie with the subway car when like after he stops the train and he like goes to pass out and like they all catch him before he falls forward

[01:25:29] got emotional not gonna lie I was so shocked I was like what is happening to me right now they carry him like Jesus back to the they give him his mask back I passed out on a train once a full train and everyone was so nice

[01:25:45] the conductor came and gave me water they could have stole from me I thought you were gonna say they abandoned you did they hand you your mask back and say it's ok you're secret safe with me no I'm not a weak ass bitch I'm showing my face

[01:25:59] to the city they know who I am remember this I better be well compensated for all this shit I'm doing for y'all it's such a weird like that moment is such a time capsule of pre cell phone or pre smartphones like at twitter like we'd all be

[01:26:19] everybody would be filming that it's just like in the new spider-man he was outed very quickly so Doc Ock and him are fighting again he's gotta pull his burnt up mask the kids come bring it in they're all like he's so young he's just a boy

[01:26:35] no younger than my own son like shut the fuck up what the hell are you doing meanwhile I'm over here crying on my couch yes it's an emotional scene and they're all like then Doc Ock's like let's go bitch and the people are like they're like not

[01:26:53] y'all have to get through me first and me and he's like alright whoosh knocks them all out this is cinema this is cinema the movies and so yeah he is able to take spider-man he's still weak or whatever he drops him off with Harry and yeah Harry

[01:27:17] unmasks him and discovers that he is in fact Peter Parker Peter how why would you do this to me Peter my love not you Peter yeah and then Peter gets up and he's like listen Harry

[01:27:34] we don't have time to deal with this right now I gotta go stop Dr. Octopus yeah I killed your daddy and I'll kill you too I gotta go like I don't have time for this he doesn't even say that MJ's in trouble he's just like there are bigger

[01:27:46] things to worry about like I can understand from Harry's perspective like what bitch you killed my daddy and you were my best friend yeah Peter's never been the best at communicating that's really his there's one thing we come away from this episode with

[01:28:00] spider-man's great weakness is his lack of communication skills yes so he goes to try to save Mary Jane she all tied up and she's like look you got spider-man what the hell am I chained up he's like you gonna tell the police and he also says

[01:28:16] as if they could do anything exactly let go this is the one the one spunky MJ scene where's the sass when she whistles at him I forget what she insults him let me go you idiot or whatever it's like the one time she has like

[01:28:36] oh wait I'm a person and can have agency right she was also about to at some point smack Doc Ock on the back of the head like Aunt May did earlier Doc Ock notices this one and knocks her back so spider-man shows up and MJ sees him

[01:28:50] and he finally reveals to her that he is Peter the mask is off that dawning moment of realizing she always knew but now she actually sees it it's a good moment she's ready to dry hump his leg in that moment for real and a building falls on her

[01:29:08] yes everything clicks into place at that one moment when that building does fall on him he's like yeah please move I thought she was stuck under something that's why she couldn't yeah I think she's partially in shock at how hunky Peter is Mary Jane bitch get up

[01:29:34] what you live there for it's not bedtime I also love in this scene too the experiment obviously goes wrong again and I think he electrocutes Doc Ock and there's this scene where Octavius regains control and Peter has to we need to destroy this experiment

[01:29:53] and he has his heroic sacrifice moment I don't know it's like we were talking about earlier with casting someone like Alfred Molina who can really sell this stuff instead of going with a stunt casting thing and having some huge star who would probably be very good also

[01:30:09] but you get some really powerful character acting moments when you have someone like Molina in there watching the ending again this is the first time I've watched this movie since No Way Home came out at least in full

[01:30:19] whenever it's on cable I end up watching all of it but this is the first time I've watched it since No Way Home came out and I was watching it and being like does No Way Home undo the ending of this movie a little bit

[01:30:29] because the idea of it is that all of the villains from the other Spider-Man movies get pulled away right before they die and the idea is they get sent back to the universes but they're not gonna die they're not bad guys anymore and so I do wonder

[01:30:45] what this universe looks like now it's a different universe whatever is in the past has already been done so wherever they go back to is a universe similar but it's a different universe like an adjacent universe it does, weirdly sort of undoes the ending of this movie

[01:31:05] which is a little bit of a shame because I think the ending of this movie he does turn good at the end and finally takes it upon himself to destroy this thing that is going to destroy the city he was never bad it's the tentacles

[01:31:21] he was just drawn that way yeah, exactly so I don't know that sun thing is in the water does it explode? it seems to imply it extinguishes it I think the water that's why we can't eat fish y'all the radiation from the sun from Doc Ock's Trillium experiments

[01:31:49] but you have the self-sacrifice and then you move on and Peter and MJ have their moment outside there and Peter's like, so now my secret you understand why we can't be together because all that stuff and she's at first like yeah, that's sad, but I agree

[01:32:06] I'm going to go ahead and marry the astronaut John Jameson, who in the comics is a werewolf what? he's man-wolf he's an astronaut who gets a moonstone seared into his body and he becomes a werewolf at the full moon that's the coolest shit ever just throwing words

[01:32:26] and throwing darts at them they're like, we've got it he's doing so much ass werewolf astronaut I thought she was more like I don't care, I want to be with you and he's kind of like, no and then she, I don't know I think she's kind of like

[01:32:44] I get where you're coming from I understand we should move on to our separate things but then, she's about to get married you see the wedding, everybody's there the groom's sitting there, J. Jonah Jameson's there and the bride is nowhere to be seen

[01:32:56] because Mary Jane did not show up for her wedding and you see her running through the streets of New York City and she's got a smile on her face and she shows up at Peter Parker's house and I do wonder, she's ditching J. Jonah Jameson's son

[01:33:08] to be with Peter Parker who works for J. Jonah Jameson and we never really get this but I am curious what J. Jonah Jameson's reaction was when he found out that's who she left his son because he's so spiteful I thought about that too

[01:33:24] when he's trying to get the revenge the way his head whips around right in front of the camera and then he's like we're the caterers don't open the caviar and was that lady who was helping Mary Jane get dressed, and her wedding dress

[01:33:40] was that supposed to be her mother? who was that lady? I'm not sure I don't think her mom's around I think her mom's not around because the first movie, she's just living with her dad and she mentions that her dad saw the play once to ask for money

[01:33:56] even he saw it I don't think she mentions her mom I don't think her mom's in the picture the dress isn't awful, but again no makeup, hair is too mid very mid I'm like you were about to get married? like girl, bye married with J. Jonah Jameson

[01:34:14] astronaut money like you had a budget they were gonna be a real power couple like a US Broadway actress and an astronaut, so that's pretty big but she leaves it all behind and she comes back to Peter Parker and she has her big emotional moment

[01:34:31] like I don't care, I want to be in this adventure with you, I want to be part of Spider-Man's life and he's thrilled, and they kiss and then he hears danger and she says go get him tiger which is a classic Mary Jane line

[01:34:43] and he leaves to go be Spider-Man and fly through the city and I think what's really interesting about the ending of Spider-Man 2 is that's not the last shot of the movie the last shot of the movie is Mary Jane and you see her smile start to fade

[01:34:57] as if like, what did I just get myself into right yeah it's the ending of the graduate but it's in superhero form and I think that's a really great ending for this movie where it's like I have to live with the consequences

[01:35:13] of this choice that I'm making right now essentially and that's what the end is done movies baby well we can't forget the real end of Spider-Man 2 is vindicated by Dashboard Confessions instantly took me back I was like Ratatouille I just whooshed back into my memories

[01:35:31] I met the guy from Dashboard once I did yeah he did an acoustic show for a radio station I used to work at and I basically only knew his song from Spider-Man 2 I was like oh yeah Spider-Man 2 guy Chris Carraba is that it? I think might be it

[01:35:49] I think Ben Gibbard it was definitely the Dashboard guy who I met I'm sure he has no memory of this I'm sure he's thinking about it every day yeah I think it was Chris Carraba yeah it was him they're from Boca I didn't know that

[01:36:09] well the band Dashboard Confessional agreed to write the song for the end credits if they could have an advanced screening of the movie and the studio agreed after watching the film the lead singer wrote Vindicated in 10 minutes and I can tell that's incredible

[01:36:27] they just really wanted to see Spider-Man that's what you call leveraging your talents I don't want back end points I just want an early screening let's see if there's any other fun facts that we missed I was interested watching the movie one in general

[01:36:43] I think the CGI looks incredible it looks better than a lot of movies that come out today I was wondering how much of the tentacles was practical vs CGI you see on here that there was an effects studio that made a rubber and metal and foam rubber

[01:37:02] tentacles and weighed over 100 pounds that's insane just imagine Melina up there hanging on those wires carrying 100 pounds there's a great set video of Alfred Molina singing a song from Fiddler on the Roof with the tentacles clacking along I think I have seen that

[01:37:20] If I were a rich man and it's the tentacles going it's great that's because he was actually playing Fiddler on the Roof on Broadway at the time as he was filming this movie he had to practice and he hated doing the stunts the stunt team would

[01:37:38] have to trick him into doing stunts because he just the exact opposite of Rosemary Harris a real bow finger situation where they had to trick him into doing stunts exactly he said he didn't like taking away the work of the real stuntman fair enough

[01:37:58] I do think the tentacles they had a real practical set and if you watch No Way Home I think it's all CGI tentacles in that movie and I do think they look better in this movie there's a practicality to it

[01:38:10] and there's a real weight to all the action sequences I think a timeless 21st century blockbuster well the movie was sent to cinemas under the name Spraypaint to try and avoid the attention of pirates which I would have never guessed Spraypaint Mike Smith as a professional movie man

[01:38:30] does that stuff still happen? not that I can think of but the theater that I work at is mostly small scale indie movies where that's not really as much of an issue that's much of an issue and I guess a lot of blockbuster movies like this would likely

[01:38:46] not be on film in canisters that need to be physically delivered that's also true it's all digital so there is that stuff gets leaked so fast now stuff gets filmed on set and it goes on twitter I knew about a lot of the cameos

[01:39:02] in No Way Home months before the movie came out because of people on twitter and that's lame I think when people on spiderman 2 mention Doctor Strange you're like woah nothing surprising anymore they have to do so much to hide stuff that's why I don't watch trailers anymore

[01:39:19] famously unsullied well this is the first and only live action spiderman film to win an Oscar as of 2023 per visual effects I assume I think it was visual effects it was nominated for 3 different but it won for visual effects

[01:39:39] and it should have been nominated for best supporting actress for Rosemary Harris best original song best picture question mark ok well let's move on from Mike's delusions and why don't you guys tell everybody where they can find you on social at completeworkspod on twitter

[01:40:01] swrks no o in the word works and at mikeandmikepods on blue sky and our ko-fi page is ko-fi.com slash mikeandmikepods plural cause there's 2 podcasts and if you donate $50 we will watch any movie you want us to watch you can donate 50 bucks we'll review anything that's right

[01:40:21] and you can check us out at no more late feeds on instagram, facebook, tiktok, twitter, youtube and threads let's get into our present day ratings start with you mike d I mean would buy again I had a dvd of this at one point

[01:40:35] and I don't know where it went or at least of one of the spider-mans I think of any of the spider-mans it would have likely been this one but I don't know where it is anymore so would buy again my rating is obviously would buy again

[01:40:49] if I didn't already own a couple of copies of it I have a spider-man 2 dvd that I've had since I was like 10 but when no way home was coming out I rewatched all the spider-man movies and I used the opportunity to buy a spider-man movie collection

[01:41:03] on blu ray and it's a really nice set one of the worst covers is the spider-man trilogy but I think that's the standalone movies it's just a blue background with their face and profiles this is not that it's a booklet kind of thing so you open the book

[01:41:23] and it comes with spider-man 2.1 which is the extended version of the movie I've heard it's slightly better than the original so interesting mine is still a 5 day rental I think I'm solid there what about you Jackie? Toby is not my favorite spider-man

[01:41:44] and so I'm going to go 2 day I just I know it's Tom Holland for me ok fair but if you have an opinion or want to tell me I'm wrong hit us up at our quick drop 909-601-6653 follow us at the twitters, have us at the threads

[01:42:08] and you can be featured on a future episode and we actually have Nick called in to give us his opinions what's up Jackie and Danielle it's Nick again driving home stuck in traffic so you guys have to listen to your podcast I was having a thought when

[01:42:26] Mama Terry was talking about these generational changes in the ways in which mothers impart wisdom about informants and their relationships I don't know if you two have any thoughts on this but something that I've been noticing in my circle and just looking around is like feel like millennials

[01:42:48] perhaps it's not just in my social circle but I really want your input on this millennial women I'm seeing this sort of trend where some of them are getting married kind of young it's something that the moms were talking about

[01:43:02] about how like you get married to a man and then he stays the same and it's like dude your life has changed, you should change too and these men are not changing they're still just the mediocre immature typical bro but what I'm noticing is that these empowered women

[01:43:20] who are like in their early 30s are like I'm not as off alone as I am with your mediocre vanilla milk toast and so like there's a lot of single women in their 30s that are just holding the line and I'm wondering if we're going to find

[01:43:36] eventually, hopefully this next generation maybe the next generation of men that aren't accepting mediocrity and men that are growing up to actually be excellent men but it's going to take a generation of women holding the line and not letting themselves fall victim to shittiness and deviousness and mediocrity

[01:43:57] all over the place it was just one thing I was thinking when you're having that conversation with your mom about the generational shift on women empowerment and relationships and just wondering I don't know, will more millennial women be watching First Line Club in solidarity with their single sisters

[01:44:15] anyway just thought while I'm stuck in traffic have a good time I agree and I think it's going to be a shift in women who have children imparting that in their sons you do need to be a partner and it's not just all about you I honestly unfortunately

[01:44:41] until men come together as a community and start having that and have those conversations with their boys but if you don't have community to enforce that with other men that's where I think we come to that stalemate because you're not you have a lot of men who say

[01:45:03] not all men they're still good men but the problem is men together don't hold other men accountable it's I'm not a bad guy but you know you have a bunch of other guys being assholes with asshole behavior until that is addressed until everybody can come together for accountability

[01:45:25] it's just going to be a cycle of it keep happening so I think women holding the line yes it does help in the sense that it might push change but that's what we're seeing so many younger men so many men in general in cells rise

[01:45:45] I saw a really great video where this therapist was talking about in history in cells there was a place for them that's why we went to wars they had vikings they would take these sexless men men who could not get sex essentially there was a place for them

[01:46:05] to be able to get out those frustrations without being harmful they were harmful in the sense that you're sending them to the Americas to go look for things and they're hurting indigenous women people that they come into contact with but this is not anything particularly new

[01:46:28] so I think we're going to see a rise in the in cells because we're seeing a rise in women not wanting to have sex being celibate by choice and the in cells are the men where they're not being able to have sex

[01:46:42] so I think we're going to start seeing more violence unfortunately and more women isolating and being happy but celibate essentially because there is that divide I don't know what the fuck's going to happen but I think it's going to get worse before it gets better and that's just

[01:47:04] you guys are men, I don't know if you have thoughts on that that's what Spider-Man 2 is all about if Spider-Man had a community we were talking about it before I was trying to find a tweet from Robert Evans who hosts Behind the Bastards and a couple other podcasts

[01:47:20] there was some study or whatever with the rise of male loneliness and the population crisis big air quotes on that because we all know what that means and was talking about the way in cell culture is deliberately weaponized by far right people and bad actors

[01:47:40] like Andrew Tate and Joe Rogan to stir up an audience and stir the pot we can't send them to go be Vikings anymore but we can do whatever nefarious shit they want to get up to and have their twitter armies at the ready and that's fucking terrifying

[01:47:56] and yeah definitely what you were referencing before on an individual family to family community have these kind of values instilled in you and then you go out in the world and have it socialized out of you by the other men that don't have that stuff

[01:48:14] and you say something and you're the only one saying something and you're like well I guess next time I just won't say anything that's what's got to flip well join us next week for some romance on repeat as we rewind back to our The Notebook episode

[01:48:28] in honor of its 20th anniversary and don't forget to check out our bonus episode coming out later this week so much for joining us thank you so much for having us we appreciate it yeah all subsequent Marvel episodes will be earmarked we may have to throw in

[01:48:49] it sounds like a romcom every now and then to get y'all to speed on some of those I've been dating my girlfriend for like 5 years now and I've watched a lot of those romcoms in that time so yeah I've watched a few of them and as always

[01:49:07] be kind and rewind