Pearl Harbor

[00:00:00] When Pearl Harbor hit theaters in 2001, audiences expected the next Titanic. Instead, they got a sweeping romance, explosive action, and one of the most debated war films of the early 2000s. So grab your flight jacket and prepare for takeoff as we revisit Michael Bay's most ambitious film.

[00:00:31] Welcome to the No More Late Fees podcast. I'm Danielle. And I'm Jackie. And we're just two best friends and ex-blockbuster employees re-watching some of the best and worst movies from the late 90s and early 2000s. This week, we're revisiting the 2001 epic war drama Pearl Harbor. But before we dive in, let's get into some house keys. If you love the podcast and you want to support us, here's how you can.

[00:01:01] Well, if you've been enjoying the show and you want to support us, make sure you check out our Ko-fi page and buy us a coffee. Or is it a Ko-fi page? And buy us a coffee. I'm Nikki. Every Ko-fi helps us continue producing weekly episodes, bonus content, and interviews celebrating the movies that made us, us. So head to ko-fi.com slash no more late fees. Okay, Jackie.

[00:01:31] What is... What is Pearl Harbor about? So best friends Rafe and Danny have dreamed of flying since childhood. When World War II changes their lives forever, they find themselves caught in a love triangle while witnessing one of the most devastating attacks in American history. As the attack on Pearl Harbor reshapes the nation, the two pilots are called upon for a daring mission that could change the course of the war.

[00:02:00] Starring Ben Affleck, Josh Hartnett, Kate Beckinsale, Cuba Gooding Jr., Tom Sizemore, and Alec Baldwin. It was written by Randall Wallace and directed by Michael Bay. You can currently rent it for $3.99 on Google, Apple, and YouTube. But before we start, let's get into our ratings rewind. So, you know the drill. Before we get into the movie, we'll reveal the rating our Y2K versions of ourselves will give.

[00:02:28] Then at the end, we'll see if our current selves agree with our initial rating. Our scale consists of would buy it, would buy it again. The best. Would play on repeat. Five-day rental. Would watch again. Two-day rental. Okay, but nothing to write home about. And same-day rental. Trash. Straight-up trash. Trash. All right, Jackie, what was your Y2K rating of Pearl Harbor? I have never seen this movie. Girl, same.

[00:02:58] We should have saved it for November. Why did I think I've seen this before? And as I was watching it, I was like, oh, I think I'm thinking of Walk in the Clouds. They're not even close to being the same. Is that the one with Keanu? Yes. Ah. Yeah, that's not this. No.

[00:03:21] And I will be so transparent that I'm not like, I don't like historical war movies. You know I love to hear the bones crack and I like that kind of stuff, like action films. I think the only historical war movie that I really truly enjoy is The Patriot with the evil Mel Gibson. Something about that movie, I don't know. I really like it.

[00:03:45] I had the same, like I had to watch, the first half of the movie was fine. Just typical regular smagular love story. Okay. As soon as the bombing started, I could only watch it in like five minute increments because my anxiety got so high. Mm-hmm.

[00:04:08] Because it's like, and I think the difference is like when we watch some of the war movies, they're fictional characters. And there are fictional characters in this movie. But so much of it was very factual about the bombing of Pearl Harbor. I've been to the Pearl Harbor site in Hawaii. It just like, it was too real for me.

[00:04:32] And it just, it like to know that people experience this, like it just, I had a hard time with it. I think also like when, when this movie came out, war, like we, to conceptualize war, we knew it existed. But now what, like we're literally watching people be decimated right now.

[00:05:00] And because of social media, like we're literally watching people like die. Yeah. In real time, it's just hitting in a different way than before. I think like, it's just too, there's too much going on right now for me to be like, yes, go America. Pearl Harbor. And it's also, it just felt so propaganda heavy, honestly. Yeah.

[00:05:28] And Ken knows a lot about World War II. Like when he was little. It's his special interest. Yeah. Well, and he would sit and it was one of the things he did with his dad. So like Bill would watch the History Channel. And so Ken would sit and watch with him, like all of it. And so there were some factual inaccuracies. I will point out as we get to them, because although Ken did not watch the whole movie with me,

[00:05:54] he watched a little bit of it and in the just like 20 minutes he watched, he's like, well, that's bullshit. And I'm like, okay. I'm right there with him on that. So before we get in, why don't you tell us about the box office? Okay. Well, the box office is kind of insane when we really get into it. So this movie came out May 25th, 2001.

[00:06:22] The budget was $140 million. Oh my God, that's crazy. And it made $449.2 million. I don't even have words. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. The opening box office for that week was Pearl Harbor at number one, Shrek at number two,

[00:06:46] The Mummy Returns at number three, and A Knight's Tale at number four, and Angel Eyes at number five. That's a pretty good list of movies that were in the top concurrently. I mean, aside from Angel Eyes. But what's crazy is yet again, you know, keep on having to do the circle when it comes to the Jennifers and Ben Affleck. Because Jennifer Garner is in this movie.

[00:07:15] This is the first movie I think they did together, because I think this came out before Daredevil. And I don't know if their characters actually interacted during this movie. But then to see Angel Eyes in the top five, which stars Jennifer Lopez, it's like, there's no way these people weren't interacting. It was just kismet regardless. Yeah. Okay.

[00:07:38] So let's go into some of these box office numbers, because it opened at $59 million over the opening weekend. And $75.1 million over the whole four-day Memorial Day holiday. So at this time, it was the second biggest Memorial Day opening weekend ever, only trailing the Lost World Jurassic Park.

[00:08:00] And it debuted at number, as like the fourth highest opening weekend in history behind Phantom Menace, The Mummy Returns, and The Lost World. And when it came, it knocked Shrek, like, we have to remember Shrek was having a generational run. So the fact that it knocked it out of the first spot is crazy. I don't even know how many weeks it was there, though. And it stayed number one for two consecutive weekends.

[00:08:26] And it held off against Moulin Rouge, What's the Worst That Could Happen, and The Animal. And it remained Ben Affleck's biggest opening weekend for 15 years until Batman vs. Superman, which we were all bamboozled. Hawned for that movie to even. We were excited for something that we still have yet to get. I'm just going to leave it there. I haven't seen it, so I believe you.

[00:08:57] What else? Let's look at the reviews. Well, I did look up, so Pearl Harbor spent 15 weeks in the box office, in the theaters. Shrek was in the theaters for 29 weeks. I don't, I'm not surprised. It was a banger. And Titanic was 28 and a half weeks. Okay. Yeah. Like, this was, this was giving, trying to give Titanic, I feel.

[00:09:24] Ed Gonzalez of Slant Magazine gave the film one out of four stars and wrote, Mittingly racist, humorless, and downright inept, Pearl Harbor is solely for fans of fireworks, fireworks, fireworks factories, Lord. I, I don't think, I, I don't wholly disagree.

[00:09:52] But, like, humorless, like, are we supposed to have fun with this movie? Like, and then. I laughed at how bad some of the writing was. Yes. And then, solely for fans of fireworks factories, I think, I feel like that's belittling to the people that lost their lives. Because, like, it was a tragedy. I don't think it was that.

[00:10:18] This movie had the most, like, blow-up bombs in a movie. Because it's Michael Bay. Like, it's hard to take it seriously because it's Michael Bay. I agree, but knowing what happened the day of Pearl Harbor, there was a lot of fire and explosions and all of that.

[00:10:46] Like, that, I, I'm sure Michael Bay made it grandiose. But that doesn't take away from the fact that there were over 50 ships bombed. Yeah. Like, it, it was just an enormous tragedy for the U.S. Yeah, 100%. What did Little Raj have to say? Little Raj.

[00:11:14] Chicago Sun-Times critic Roger Ebert gave the film one and a half stars, writing, Pearl Harbor is a two-hour movie squeezed into three hours about how, on December 7, 1941, the Japanese staged a surprise attack on American, on an American love triangle. Clock it.

[00:11:37] It's centerpiece is 40 minutes of redundant special effects surrounded by a love story of stunning banality. The film has been directed without grace, vision, or originality. And although you may walk out quoting lines of dialogue, it will not be because you admire them. Ebert also criticized the liberties the film took with historical facts. Very true. There is no sense of history, strategy, or context, according to this movie.

[00:12:07] Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because America cut off its oil supply and they were down to an 18-month reserve. Would going to war restore the fuel sources? Did they perhaps also have imperialist designs? The movie doesn't say. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:27] If you had just done a fact-based, like, recount of events of Pearl Harbor and the Doolittle Raid, great. Sure. Movies have been done like that and they've been done super well.

[00:12:43] And I think it was shoehorning that love story and because of Titanic and how well Titanic did with blending historical drama with a fictitious love story. But we didn't need all that. I personally feel like we didn't need it in Titanic either. Like, just tell me the story. Just tell me about Molly Brown again. Like, that's all I need.

[00:13:12] I feel like there's a way to have romance in a war movie. But I don't know if this was the way to do it. Because, like, first and foremost, how many times did Ben Affleck say, you're so beautiful? Is that all? Yeah. It was just, and I was like, how much time? We'll get to it. Yeah.

[00:13:42] We'll get into it. Before we get into cast and crew, let's hear a message from our pod pals. Picture it. It's 2004. You just put on your orange Fanta flavored lip smackers, zipped up your low rise jeans, and are about to ask your mom for a ride to the movie theater to go watch a Cinderella story. I'm Mo. And I'm Christina, and we are the hosts of Movies That Raised Us.

[00:14:11] A late 90s and 2000s podcast that dives into your favorite nostalgic movies. We're talking Princess Diaries, The Click, Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen. We're sick of great movies being ripped to shreds by critics. I firmly believe that Uptown Girls deserves more than a 13% on Rotten Tomatoes. And Jamie Lee Curtis deserved a Daytime Emmy for her Activia commercial. We love movies that we can watch over and over again.

[00:14:38] They make us laugh, make us want to travel the world, and make us grateful that we didn't have a coach dad a la Troy Bolton. So join us for our virtual sleepover every Wednesday where we deep dive into montages, unrealistic expectations, chunky highlights, role models, and the movies that raised us. So cast and crew. Michael Fassbender read for the part of Rafe.

[00:15:07] Fassbender later said that Disney sent him a really nice note telling him that he did not get the part. And this was supposedly like the first movie he ever like really auditioned for. So I think, oh wow. I don't know. I would have been fine with him being there too. Because all I saw when Ben Affleck was there was that this was like an Armageddon spinoff. Yeah. It very, okay.

[00:15:36] Towards the end. When she tells him she's pregnant and Danny doesn't know. I'm like, is this, we're going to get into a situation where we sacrifice himself for Danny because Danny has a baby on the way. Like, is it going to be exactly like an Armageddon situation? It was not. But I fully expected it to be like jump in front of a bullet because Danny's going to be a father. Right.

[00:16:04] Charlize Theron turned down the role of Evelyn so that she could star in Sweet November. It's a lose, lose, lose situation. But if I had to pick between Keanu and anybody else, I'm going for that Sweet November baby. I do really love Kate Beckinsale. And she is just absolutely stunning in this movie. Yeah, they do. There's a lot of, a lot of Tanner going on in this movie. Yeah.

[00:16:32] A very brown, glow, orange tint to them. It was the early 2000s. Sure. I don't know. Nev Campbell auditioned and was offered a part but had to turn it down to scheduling conflicts. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Okay. Ashton Kutcher lost the role of Danny Walker to Joss Arnett. You don't have the acting chops to pull it off. No.

[00:17:03] So. Josh Arnett, best thing about this movie. Yes. A hundred percent. Josh Arnett and then Cuba Gooding Jr. was also very good in his role. We'll talk about it. I, it's not. I have to separate Cuba from the person he is. It's not even that. Okay. It was just like, I looked at so much of, like I looked at the Japanese characters. Mm-hmm.

[00:17:33] I looked at the black characters. And I know even in the military, it was still very segregated. Mm-hmm. Very segregated. Like, I know he was like a cook, but some of the interactions just didn't feel authentic to what, how things were at that time. So I was like side-eyeing it. Also, like him being alone with a white nurse, never, no. And having conversations, no.

[00:18:03] There would have been a whole other staff of black nurses and other stuff. Yeah. I don't even think a white doctor would have treated him at that time. Yeah. So like, that was weird. And then it was just like a very magical Negro vibe to it. I know it's based off of a real person. Mm-hmm. Like, but yeah, I was like, this is very weird. The language, everything.

[00:18:31] Like, I was just not, I wasn't, I wasn't buying it. I'm sorry. Like, nah. Yeah. And then the way that the Japanese characters were treated was, it gave, it gave cosplay. So the producers originally hoped to cast Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, and Gwyneth Paltrow together in the lead roles. However, Damon and Paltrow could not commit to the movie during, due to scheduling conflicts. That's great. Cause I, I don't want to see them together again.

[00:19:01] Sorry. I, I, I really don't fuck with Gwyneth Paltrow like that. Yeah. Many active duty military personnel stationed in Hawaii, along with local residents, appeared as extras during filming. That was the other thing. Did you see any Hawaiian people at all in this movie? In the background? I think because it was close to the base. I thought it was weird.

[00:19:30] But that's just me. Michael Bay actually became frustrated with Josh Harnett's serious approach to acting. So much so that when he caught him smiling on film, he said, send that smile to ILM and tell them to copy and paste it. Okay. It's a serious war movie. Like, when do you want him to smile? It's giving, come on girl, smile for me. Yeah.

[00:20:00] Like, why are you sad? Right. Give me a smile. I think, but this is not the first time we've heard this. Like, when we, any of the other movies we've covered by him, he had beef with his other directors too. I don't know if he was method, but he definitely was not like, he came to do a job. Whatever. Okay.

[00:20:23] So, John Voight considers himself an expert on Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and he petitioned Michael Bay to cast him in the role. Oddly enough, the scene where he portrays Roosevelt rising up from his wheelchair without help to prove that nothing is impossible was widely criticized by historians.

[00:20:42] The real Roosevelt was indeed crippled from polio contracted in childhood, but always tried to hide his condition as much as he could and has never, nor would he have, used it in such an obvious display for dramatic effect. He also never talked in John Wayne type speeches either. Girl, I w it was frying me a hundred percent him in this movie.

[00:21:08] Kevin Costner turned down the role of Colonel James Doolittle. I would have, I wouldn't have mind to see him in it. No, when I was watching it, it was right around the time where the boys are called into Doolittle's office to be offered the, the secret mission. And Ken like walked out of the room, walked back in. He's like, where are they going? I was like, oh, they have to go talk to Doolittle. Derek told him they had to go. And he's like, what are you talking about?

[00:21:38] I was like the guy that plays Derek in shrinking is randomly in this movie for two seconds and told them they had to go talk to Doolittle. So what's his name? McGinley. Great. There's so many shitty people in this, like Alex Baldwin. Michael Bay is horrible. Human being. John Boyd. John Boyd. Yeah. It just. And then. Cuba. So.

[00:22:08] The budget. So we talked about how inflated, how crazy the budget was. Apparently Michael Bay and Jerry Buck, Bruckheimer originally proposed a $208 million budget, but Disney pushed it down to 140. So in order to make it possible to make the film, much of the cast crew and vendors, including Panavision, Technicolor and Industrial Light and Magic, agreed to defer millions in pay until the movie became profitable. Bay also deferred his salary.

[00:22:37] So he and Bruckheimer were the only ones to receive a share of the film's profits. Right. So you're telling me. Hey, you're going to work on this film. Right. Or we want you to work on this film. Right. You need to do the lighting.

[00:22:57] But we can't pay you because our $140 million budget has to go to fireworks and special effects and probably paying the main actors budget salaries. Yeah. But it's okay. It's we think it's going to do well and we're just going to pay you on the back end. But we're not going to like pay you interest or give you profit shares or anything. You just have to trust us. Yeah.

[00:23:26] A hundred percent. All right. Okay. Well, another major point of contention was that the film's rating. Apparently, Michael Bay, he envisioned it being an R-rated war film with more graphic depiction of combat. But Disney insisted on a PG-13 rating to reach a wider audience. As a compromise, Bay later released an R-rated director's cut on DVD in 2002.

[00:23:56] And the creative and budget disputes became so intense that Bay reportedly walked away from the project multiple times with Disney chairman Dick Cook later calling Pearl Harbor one of his most difficult shoots of modern history. Dang. I mean, I see from Disney's perspective because I think it did work. You get really pretty white boys to be in this movie and a cutesy little love story at the beginning to draw them in.

[00:24:26] And it's the same audience that went for the Titanic of it all. But it's a war movie. No. No. I do want to talk about some of the historical inaccuracies. Okay. So let's see. Okay.

[00:24:51] The Battle of Britain had already ended in 1940, whereas the film has it still happening in early 1941 with dogfights over the English Channel in the movie. So that's when Rafe volunteers to go and fly for the British. Yeah.

[00:25:11] The radio communication is apparently pure Hollywood because it shows the pilots communicating effortlessly with the control tower and even has Evelyn listening to an aerial battle from Hawaii as it unfolds. Military historians have pointed out that World War II aircraft radio simply weren't capable of that kind of long range real time communication.

[00:25:37] It took them an hour past when the attack happened to get the Hawaiian note that says, hey, Japan is about to bomb you. Yeah. But we're supposed to believe they just picked up the radio and listened to the dogfight. They were texting girls. And I read about, like, the reasoning why they weren't informed in time and it was because it had to be highly encrypted.

[00:26:04] And so by the time they, like, sent out the message encrypted, found the right people to do it who had the clearance to relay the information, encrypted it and got it over to Hawaii. It was too late. But, I mean, they could have just picked up the radio and been like, hey, GTFO, like, Japan's on the way. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. Girl, I watched this movie. I still don't know what was going on. So. I could probably help you out.

[00:26:35] I don't think I wanted to. I'll be honest. I think just from a historical context of, like, understanding past mistakes so we don't make future mistakes, it's important. But, yes, some of it is just kind of extra. So, the Japanese torpedo and airfield. During the attack sequence, characters refer to the Japanese planes torpedoing an airfield.

[00:27:04] Torpedoes are underwater weapons designed to hit ships, not land targets. So this is a notable terminology mistake. Like, with that $140 million budget. I was just going to say, you couldn't get some experts to look at them. And, like, you didn't even have to get, like, a super field expert. Just find someone's, like, grandpa or dad that has sat and watched World War II documentaries for two decades.

[00:27:33] Or were actually in World War II. Because at that point. Yes. Ben Affleck's grandfather said that he didn't want to see the movie. He declined to see it. He said that he wasn't interested in reliving the war in any way, shape, or form. So. I don't blame him. Yeah. Yeah. So, a plane from the future makes a cameo. Along with our futuristic radio. Right. Eagle-eyed viewers can spot an E-2 Hawkeye in the background of one scene.

[00:28:02] The catch? That aircraft wasn't introduced until the 1960s. Roughly 20 years after the events of Pearl Harbor. Yeah. They weren't the only ones in the sky from the future. Apparently, in the opening scene set in 1923, the boys are playing with a crop duster, which wasn't commercially introduced until the late 1930s. Gotta love it. Gotta love it.

[00:28:30] And that's just like tip of the iceberg of like the inaccuracies. Yeah. Some of which I'll point out as we go through the movie. So, Pearl Harbor. Movie opens up. Movie opens up in rural Tennessee during the late 1920s. We're introduced to Rafe and Danny, who are best friends. They're playing in the crop duster that doesn't exist yet.

[00:28:56] And they just talk about wanting to be pilots when they grow up. Because I can imagine if they were growing up during World War I. Or maybe it was. World War I ended, I don't want to say like 1918. Let me see. Maybe not. I will say, if you. I was right. Oh my gosh.

[00:29:25] Fighting ended in 1918. Treaty of Versailles was signed in 1919, officially like declaring. So they were. How old do you think they were at this point? They were probably like 11 or 12, I would say. They at least saw. Because I'm like wondering why they would want to be. But they didn't see anything. They would have heard it on the radio. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and his dad talks about being in the war. Yeah.

[00:29:52] So I was just wondering like, why did they want to be air pilots? But I was thinking, oh, they must have been influenced by the previous war. It's also what they're exposed to, right? Right. It seems like Rafe's dad owns the crop dusting business and Danny's dad works for the business. Danny's dad has a lot of PTSD. He's very handsy with Danny.

[00:30:18] He's very handsy with Danny, which Rafe literally takes like a fucking four by four and hits him in the back and calls him a German. Oh, okay. I don't remember that. When he's like manhandling Danny to drag him home. Honestly, never saw it. I watched it. I don't recall this scene. It's fine.

[00:30:48] So, so Rafe, you can see, and Rafe is probably a year or two older than Danny. And Rafe is very productive, protective of Danny. And at the same time, like there's a little hint to Rafe having like dyslexia or some sort of like reading disability. And Danny's like, hey, Rudder has two Ds. You need to fix that type thing. Yeah.

[00:31:13] And so we just kind of get their childhood background and now flash to the late 1930s. America is not yet fully in the war. They are being pressured by their allies in Europe to join the war efforts. We are supplying certain countries with ammunition and I think maybe some, some transportation, like tanks and stuff like that.

[00:31:42] But we have not committed our troops to the war. But we are still recruiting and preparing and putting everyone through basic training. So Rafe and Danny become Army Air Corps pilots. You can see Rafe is good, but he knows he's good. And he's just like, I'm going to do what I want. At one point, he like damages, does he damage or something like one of the planes?

[00:32:12] And they're like, you can't just like fuck up military equipment like that. And he's like, oh, it's fine. We're good. He's top, he's maverick. Yes, exactly. Danny is very reserved. He's quiet. He is also a very good pilot, but he's just more reserved in his approach. And then we meet the nurses. We have a whole flock of nurses in this movie.

[00:32:42] We have Jamie King who plays Betty. Then you have Jennifer Garner. Yep. Sarah. Popular. What's her name? Yep. Why can't I think of her name either? Hold on. Sarah Rue. There we go. You have Sarah Rue. Another lady. I don't know who. I don't know where I've seen her before. I don't even.

[00:33:10] But yeah, there's a lot of actresses. As well as Kate Beckinsale. Yes. Who's the main love interest. So when we meet her, they are traveling on a train and she is telling a story of how she started her whirlwind romance with Rafe. Right? Yes. And they are kind of going into the fact that Rafe went in to do his eye exam.

[00:33:40] Like you said earlier, he has dyslexia. Not yet diagnosed or even they haven't figured out what that is. Yeah. So he has memorized the bottom line of the chart. But she catches on pretty early on that he is memorizing. So she is making him do different exercises with it. And he cannot, he cannot tell her the letters. And it's not that he can't see.

[00:34:08] It's because he, the letters are jumbling up for him. It's just, it's hard for him. And somehow through care, his charismatic character, he's able to convince her to let him pass. And then he is smitten after this with Danny behind him, of course, supporting this, the shenanigans.

[00:34:28] And then afterwards he meets up with her again and she tells him to drop trial because she is doing shots at the moment, unaware that he's already had his shots. And he is literally taking a shot at love by trying to get her to go out on a date with him. Finally convinces her, not after passing out though, or falling from the shot.

[00:34:56] And then ever since then, they've just been in love. And so she is hyping this whole thing up with the girls so that when they get off the train, him and his boys meet up with her and her girls. And that's how they start hanging out. Yeah.

[00:35:15] I think their first date is like, not their first date, but their last date before because he actually gets recruited to go overseas or he volunteers to go overseas to help the British army with his flying skills. And so now he has to tell her that's what's going to happen. And he's, you know, he's a respectful man. He does not take her to the hotel and get it on. He says he wants something to look forward to.

[00:35:44] And he tells Danny to watch out for her. If anything happens to him, he wants Danny to be the one to tell her. Exactly. And so he tells her, because they steal a boat. Get on a bigger boat. The queen can. Get on a bigger boat. And then he tells her that he doesn't want to say goodbye twice. So don't come to the train station. But then he tells Danny it's actually a test because Danny's like, I thought you told her not to come. And he's like, and if that's the case, why are you looking around?

[00:36:14] He's like, it was a test. I don't like that. Didn't like that. But she passes the test because she's running and there's all this wonderful cloud smoke and she can't see him. And he sees her, but she doesn't see him. And he goes off to war. And Danny is left behind with his crew. And they get reassigned to go to Hawaii. And so do the nurses. So everybody heads to Hawaii.

[00:36:41] And everyone views Hawaii as like the cush assignment. Like sun, beaches, like nothing really happens. It's a really quiet port. Like they're just chilling. Yeah. I just don't know why they would think considering how close Hawaii is to Japan that that wouldn't make sense to attack them.

[00:37:07] I don't think that America had like, I don't think Japan even like crossed their mind as attacking. I think they thought they were too far away. And because Pearl Harbor is such a shallow harbor, they're like their weapons can't even get to us or torpedoes. So torpedoes typically what happens is when they're dropped, they go vertical and they go down into the water.

[00:37:37] Then they level out at about 60 feet and then are able to. Explode. Yeah. Run into a ship. But the harbor was so shallow, they had to cut that depth by at least half. And then that's why we get that scene with Japan saying, hey, we created these balsa wood fins, which are buoyant and don't allow the torpedoes to drop so far into the ocean.

[00:38:04] And then so we can take out or like we can carry out this very shallow water attack on Pearl Harbor. So America thought Pearl Harbor was very safe because they didn't think Japan had the weaponry to be able to attack. But who is the man who was like, actually, it's the place you least expect that they probably will hit. They should listen to him.

[00:38:31] And Ken said that there are conspiracy theories that some people were in on it because typically there are four aircraft carriers that are stationed in Pearl Harbor. And they were all out of port at that time. And Ken's like, there was no reason for them not to be there. So just a little conspiracy theory. You know, I love it. Tinfoil me.

[00:39:00] Put it on me, baby. She's writing to Rafe and Danny is with the crew and they're living their lives separately. Nothing too crazy. And then Rafe is he's on a mission and he's attacked. And yeah, he's in a dogfight over the ocean. Yeah. And he crashes and they think he's dead.

[00:39:28] So now Danny has to go and tell Evelyn. Evelyn. Yep. Yeah. And they they bond over that. I think he tells her they grieve. And then what is it? A month or two passes. Yeah, it's a couple of months later. And her friends are like very encouraging. Like you have to like at some point you have to move on. Right. I didn't I don't I didn't think it had to be to his best friend.

[00:39:55] But I do understand that like when you're grieving and then you're grieving over the same person. It's almost like you you were so close to him. You loved him so much. Like but still it's wild business. And the trauma bonding of it all. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, Danny and Evelyn start a relationship and they're very happy. And then we also there there's a friend of theirs also stationed in Hawaii red who has a really bad stutter when he's nervous.

[00:40:25] Yeah. And he gets engaged to Betty played by Jamie King. Yeah. So everyone's just super happy in Hawaii. I mean, Evelyn sitting on rocks on at the ocean, like writing her love letters to Rafe. She yeah, she does look very pretty in this movie.

[00:40:44] I like the the part where they go to the to the the place with the bedsheets and they the parachutes. Sure. And I'm going to, you know, hard opinion. I very much like Evelyn better with Rafe than I did with. I mean, I liked her better with Danny than Rafe. I think they had better chemistry. Yeah, I 100% agree.

[00:41:14] But let Evelyn go live her happy like just. Yeah, he comes back like, hey, baby, I'm back. Like you did. Baby, come back. You're dead. And I've been sleeping with your brother. Your bestie. And then he's like, what the fuck? And she's like, but you were dead. Right. Polyamory, baby. Yes.

[00:41:41] They could have very easily just lived all together in a happy little compound. As Hannah Montana said it best. It's the best of both worlds. I'm just saying. But yeah, he's not happy when he comes back. He rolls through. Evelyn starts showing signs that she's preggers because she's like throwing up at the bathroom. So we're like, she got a baby in the bun. A bun in the baby and a bun in the oven. In the oven with the baby.

[00:42:11] And so as she's putting two and two together. Oh boy comes back and he spots it immediately because she's had he's trying to kiss her and she's like, well. And then here comes Rafe like that you. You bet. So Rafe and Danny. Start fighting and Danny's like, I didn't do this to fuck you ever, bro. Like you were dead.

[00:42:42] You told me if you were dead, go tell your girl. And I did. And we grieved together. And now we're fucking together. Right. We grieved, went to the room with the bedsheets and we're together now. Yeah. Sorry. So. Yeah. And Danny does feel bad.

[00:43:04] Like you can see like the whole time, like they're starting their romance that he's just like, he's very conflicted because this is like his bros, but like his bros girl. But he also has feelings for her. So it's not like he's just like, fuck Rafe. Let's do this. Not Tom Sizemore, but the guy, Michael, the actor who plays.

[00:43:29] I don't know what his character is, but he said something that made me laugh. And that was, that's all I remember. And now I'm trying to think, what did he actually say? Michael Shannon? Yes. He's like, I got a girl. I think that's what it was. And that made me laugh. He was hilarious. Like he was that quintessential surfer bro that happens to just fly planes on the side for the military.

[00:43:58] Like he just wants to work on his surfboard. That's all he wants. Yeah. So one random scene that we, we, we see Cuba Gooding's character, he is boxing on the Navy, naval ship and he wins. And we find out he's a cook.

[00:44:23] We also, at some point, like during the war, he, he runs up and he gets to the machine gun thingy. And he's, you know, he's clipped quite a few of the planes when they get attacked. But after the boxing match, he gets hurt. So that's when we see him engage with Kate Beckinsale.

[00:44:45] And again, I just think it's very unrealistic that the two of them would be alone, have these conversations, that she would even be the one that would be administrating help for him. Yep. But okay, sure. It's made in 2000s. They're like, nobody's going to care about these accuracies. Because to put this in like time perspective. Right.

[00:45:10] This movie happens almost exactly the same timeframe, like within a year or two as Sinners, where we're still using black people and sharecropping them and paying them in wooden nickels and stuff. Like this is not, it is still very much. We haven't even gotten to this. Yeah. It's segregated 100%.

[00:45:34] And we haven't made it to the civil, the civil war, not civil war, civil rights era at all. But 100%, like it's still segregated. Like, and a lot of the guys who went, a lot of the black men and women that went and fought in World War II when they came home did not experience the same opportunities. G.I. Bill, none of that.

[00:46:01] So that's why I'm like, what am I watching right now? Because it did take me out of the movie. It took me out of the timeframe. It made me think like, this is true. And like we said, Doris Miller was a real person on the USS West Virginia. He was a mass attendant. He did carry his wounded captain to safety.

[00:46:25] And he did man an anti-aircraft gun, becoming the first black American to receive the Navy Cross. Yeah. It was just the part where the guy was like, I'm so proud of you. I'm like, what was happening here? It gave infantilized. That's what it felt like. And that made me feel icky. Yeah. So I couldn't even really appreciate that whole thing. Yeah.

[00:46:49] He did later go on to die at war on the next ship he was stationed on. Yeah. I just wonder, like, how does this family feel like this was a great representation? Like, did they feel honored? I don't know. I just know me 20 years later, I'm side eyeing it. So that's just me, personal opinion. But I was already out of this because I really don't like, again, war movies.

[00:47:17] And it just felt so propaganda. The whole movie felt like, like, you remember in the Captain America movies, how they like show the propaganda movies within that. That's how it felt. I don't know. Did you feel like that? Um, I did not. But I think I already, because I had, like, background information of the attack itself,

[00:47:44] like, I kind of hyper-focused on the things that I knew and kind of just kind of shut everything else out. So, yeah, we get to Danny and Rafe fight and make up, and then they go out drinking all night. So they're in the sleep in the back of a car on December 7th, the early morning of December 7th.

[00:48:06] And we see just like, I thought it was interesting how they did show kind of just everyday life that was happening the morning of that. Like, kids playing baseball and parents, like, walking their kids to school. Somebody wrote, who's watching, who's playing baseball at 7 a.m.? Oh, I had that same thought. Yeah. Because it couldn't be me. Yeah.

[00:48:34] But it's an attempt to show, like, it was supposed to be an ordinary day, right? Like, it's just everyone's getting up, getting out of the house for the day. And unfortunately, there was... Hold on. I don't want to get my facts wrong. So, let me... I was... One of the things I was wondering is if they... I wasn't sure at first that they were filming in Hawaii, but apparently the production filmed

[00:49:02] on location in Hawaii and used real U.S. naval facilities to recreate, like, the pre-war Pearl Harbor. So, because I was looking, I was like, is that California? Yes. Oh, right. So, the incoming Japanese strike force, and they do show this in the movie, was confused with a scheduled flight of U.S. Army Air Force's Boeing B-17 Flying Fortresses. So, there's a shot where the guy's like, wait, there's this, like, group of planes.

[00:49:31] And they're like, oh, that was a, like, scheduled flight of Flying Fortresses, which wasn't the case. It was actually the Japanese. So, they did have the opportunity to, like, sound the alarm, but it, unfortunately, it was confused for those. So, in harbor, when Japan struck, there were approximately 100 commissioned warships and

[00:49:58] auxiliary vessels, including eight battleships, three heavy cruisers, three light cruisers, 30 destroyers, four subs, and then, of course, the planes as well. And they may mention to the planes because it was easier for them to group the planes together because there was no real, what they thought was real threat of them being attacked. And it was easier to keep an eye on them if they were all just together.

[00:50:26] And the planes didn't have ammo on them, were not fueled or anything. And so, we see that struggle later on in the movie as they're trying to get ammo on the planes so that they can take off after the Japanese and get fuel and stuff like that. And then, the battleships were all kind of, like, grouped together in the harbor as well. So, we see the Japanese fly in. They drop their torpedoes.

[00:50:56] Arizona and Oklahoma are hit. Arizona starts to sink immediately. I did ask Ken if the Japanese knew where the ammo was stored. Because in the movie, we see this aerial torpedo be dropped right at the bow of the ship. And it goes through a couple of layers and hits all of the ammunition that the battleship is storing. And he said it was probably just a lucky shot.

[00:51:23] They really didn't have a way of knowing where they would keep their ammo. But he said aerial attacks to the deck were the easiest because the decks were made of wood. And so, your attack would go straight through the deck down to lower levels of the ship. I asked a lot of questions.

[00:51:47] Between me, my anxiety pausing, and then me pausing to ask questions, it took me, like, five hours to watch this movie. So, Arizona starts sinking. Oklahoma flips over. And this is where my anxiety fever pitched because it's people that were in the water trying to get away from the ship. And the ship's vortex, as it's, like, sinking and turning, is sucking people back under it.

[00:52:15] And then it is a very real fact that for, Ken said, I think a week afterwards, you could hear banging in the ship. And they just couldn't get to them. So, the Arizona, they did flip the Oklahoma back over. So, the Arizona was the only one that was actually lost. And it is now considered a burial site for everyone that was lost.

[00:52:41] All the other ships were towed and fixed and sent back out. Hmm. And I read something about fixing them took way less time than they expected or something. I don't know. All I know is this movie cost more to make than it cost the U.S. to rebuild all of the ships. Hmm. That was my other fun fact I had. So, the attack is happening.

[00:53:11] Another inaccuracy of the movie is that the Japanese did not target the hospital. So, in the movie, we see the nurses, like, oh, the planes are coming. We need to get everyone away from the windows and stuff like that. That didn't actually happen. So, the nurses who were used to just sitting around doing nothing. Like, we see shots where it's like there was one sailor in there because he had a sunburn.

[00:53:38] And so, they've been resting on their laurels and now they have to jump into action and actually, like, triage these men. They have to make snap decisions like, okay, is this person critical? Is this person, like, just morphing because they're going to die?

[00:53:58] So, they're labeling bodies with lipstick just to, like, identify what area, what treatment type should be done to them. So, just really horrific event. And it just, yeah, it was a well-planned attack and it went off exactly how the Japanese expected it to.

[00:54:25] So, then we see, like I said, as the Japanese are flying over to attack the ships, Danny wakes up and he's like, who's doing flying drills at 7 a.m.? Blah, blah, blah. And then they quickly realize they are not drills and that they are being attacked. So, they run to the airfield. They're trying to get ammo on board and fuel the plane so that they can go after the Japanese.

[00:54:50] And so, Danny and Rafe are able to attack the planes. And then we just see kind of the aftermath, just pulling body after body out of the water. And they go to the hospital to help. Right. And they see Evelyn and she looks, you know, war-torn, obviously. Yeah. And they're able to donate blood at the hospital. Yeah.

[00:55:20] So, just an imaginable tragedy glorified on the big screen in 2001. I think that's what my disconnect is, is that, like, one thing I always really appreciate about James Cameron is that, like, he has special interests. Like, he... Yeah. He respects the Titanic. Right.

[00:55:46] He respects the history of it and takes the time to, like, he respected it so much that now he is one of the experts about the Titanic. Yes. And I just feel like the same love and care was there. I just feel like... I don't know. Because it's... There's a fictional aspect of it. Mm-hmm. Trying to mix the... No. I'm not going to even say that. I'm not even going to give an excuse.

[00:56:14] Because if James Cameron was able to have his special interests, have a love story, but be very accurate, like, there's still a few things in there. But mostly, it's pretty accurate, you know, considering. I think that's why, like, I wasn't connecting to it, per se. Because it was a lot of trauma. Like, I just started to get sad.

[00:56:40] I started to think about all the people that died, how it affected the environment afterwards. I thought about all the people whose stories weren't even being able to be told. So I just was like... I just wanted it to be over in the movie sense. Like, I just want to get through this, you know? I don't want to watch it.

[00:57:04] Yeah, there were 2,403 Americans killed during the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7th. And I think it makes me, like, feel bad in my gut because I know what happens after.

[00:57:23] The retaliation part, like, as horrible as Pearl Harbor is, the retaliation part is, it's rough to know that, you know. Anywho, what happens next? So, like I had mentioned, Danny and Rafe, they kind of just kind of commandeer planes and go after the Japanese.

[00:57:48] After all that's said and done, we see that Betty was killed in the attack. And everyone's just kind of, is beside themselves and trying to kind of pick up the pieces. And bury the dead and have, like, they have all these, you know, people in caskets and trying to, like, get that going so that you can memorialize them.

[00:58:12] And then Derek from Shrinking shows up and tells Rafe and Danny that, I almost call them Dr. Doolittle. That's not his name. Doolittle wants to see them. And so they go. And Ken was very adamant that the Doolittle raids were voluntary. So they were not assigned. They were asked. But they weren't told what the mission was going to be.

[00:58:39] All they were told was, top secret, we won't tell you until, like, we're leaving to do what we're going to do. And we're going to just, we're going to train you and you can't, like, tell anyone type thing. And Rafe and Danny are both like, yeah, we're in. But, like, that's what we signed up for. And so then we see them practicing and getting ready and doing drills and stuff.

[00:59:04] A couple of their other companions stationed at Pearl Harbor joined them, like, what's his name? Michael Shannon's character in Red. Goose. Such a dumb name. So, and what they're doing is essentially, let me not get the plane wrong. They want to do a surprise attack on the Japanese. But the aircraft carriers at that time were smaller than today's aircraft carriers.

[00:59:34] And so they had to launch these planes within, like, it was, like, something crazy, like 400 feet. Well, these planes are huge and heavy. And so they're just, like, gutting the planes. Yeah. Lessening the weight. Let me see. What planes used and do? I'll read. It was a B-25 Mitchell bomber. And it was because they wanted to bomb Japanese or Japan.

[01:00:04] And so they needed bombers to do that. But bombers are giant. They're not supposed to be launched off aircraft carriers. And so they're practicing these takeoffs. And they have to do it within a certain amount of distance. And so they ended up, they've successfully started launching. And Doolittle is part of the team as well. He's a pilot that's leading that.

[01:00:31] And they were taking off from the USS Hornet, if anyone was interested. So they get close enough to shore. And Doolittle is leading the charge. So he gets the plane off of the aircraft carrier. And now everyone, like, okay, if that one goes, the rest of us will make it. Because now we have a little bit more runway. Because they're all in a line. So they go. They carry out the bombings. But there's conversation about, like, hey, what happens?

[01:00:59] Because we only have so much fuel. So what happens? And we're not able to return to the aircraft carrier. And they're like, just ditch the planes and try and find an ally. Because at that time, China was our ally. So like, if you can find the Chinese or fly over to the mainland and get to China, then they should be able to help you. They know what's going on. Like, we've told them at this point.

[01:01:29] And so that's essentially what they ended up having to do was ditch the planes. Ken said all of the planes were lost. No, all but one were lost. Because they just had to bail. The aircraft carrier was worried that there would be retaliatory attacks. And so it turned around and started heading back. So there was not the option to land back on the aircraft carrier because it was too far away by that time.

[01:01:58] So they bail out into rice paddies. And the Japanese are immediately upon them. And they're fighting. There's lots of combat, lots of shooting of people. And essentially, they're captured as prisoners. I looked it up. And during the actual raid, there were 11 that were captured.

[01:02:28] Or three died in the battle itself. Four were captured. And one died in captivity. Three, no, eight were captured. One died from disease or injury. Three were killed by the Japanese. And then four of them returned back home safely. So all of that to say is one of the Japanese goes to shoot Rafe.

[01:02:56] And Danny pushes him out of the way and takes the bullet. So now Danny is laying there dying. And Rafe goes over to him. And is like, you can't die. You're going to be a father. And then Danny looks at him and says, no, you are. And then dies. Yeah. And then he comes back home. Yep. They come off the plane.

[01:03:24] Old girl has really given her all to keep in communication and to know what's going on. So she went back to this guy who she helped, who had been hurt during the attack, so that she can find out what happens to her boys. And when they come back home, she has no idea until Danny is coming off of the plane.

[01:03:50] Or Rafe is coming off the plane with a casket of Danny. And so she, of course, runs to his arms and cries because now she's lost Danny. But then we fast forward two years later and we see the baby is now a little boy and they are a family. Yeah. And his name is Danny. Yeah. And then Faith Hill plays. Yeah.

[01:04:19] And that is Pearl Harbor. Yes. Yep. Yeah. Now that I think about it, it is quite sick to romanticize these absolutely horrific events. Not to say, like, I know in war a lot of people were, like, in love and coming together.

[01:04:46] And I could, I think that this situation probably did happen. Yeah. You know, like we said, just the trauma bonding and grieving together brings people's lives together. But yeah, just a weird, weird way to tell the events of Pearl Harbor and the Doolittle raids. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:05:09] Well, to recreate the pre-war, to recreate pre-war Pearl Harbor production filmed on location in Hawaii. And oh, I said this already. So, just a second. Okay. The massive battle sequences were filmed at Rosarito Beach in Baja, California, Mexico. And all. Wait. Baja, California, Mexico? Is that what they mean? Okay. Yes.

[01:05:39] On the same set built for Titanic. Yeah. Baja, California is a location and it is located in Mexico. Got it. Yeah. So, most of the aircraft carrier seams were filmed aboard the museum ship, the USS Lexington in Corpus Christi, Texas, which doubled as both the USS Hornet and a Japanese aircraft carrier.

[01:06:00] They did remove the museum part of the ship and tried to kind of restore it to historical accuracy as much as possible. And fun fact, I have been on the USS Lexington. Oh, cool. Yeah.

[01:06:16] A full-scale model of the bow of the USS Oklahoma was mounted on what was then the world's largest gimbal, allowing filmmakers to realistically recreate the ship rolling over and sinking. Oh, okay. And they rolled the Oklahoma, like, they actually rolled the Oklahoma back over. And there are photos of just, like, they used, like, these wooden, like, as.

[01:06:46] Planks? I don't, it's some physics word I can't think of right now. But essentially, they, like, I don't know if it was a lever and pulley system, but if you, if you Google it, you can see, like, what they built to roll the Oklahoma back over. Because they needed the ships and it's easier to repair than. Start over. Yeah.

[01:07:10] So the production, production designer Nigel Phelps said the USS Oklahoma sequence was one of the largest practical sets ever constructed for a film. And to make the USS Lexington look authentic, its modern display aircraft were temporarily removed and replaced with period-correct World War II planes and anti-aircraft guns. Okay. They really were committed. At least to that. Yeah. Okay.

[01:07:40] What else? I do want to talk about how they promoted the movie. What else? What's the marketing budget went to? So the first teaser trailer for this movie actually debuted in June of 2000 before the screenings of The Patriot. Oh, your favorite. Yeah. It came out on my birthday, June 28th, 2000. So what else?

[01:08:05] So Disney held the world premiere at Pearl Harbor aboard the active U.S. Navy aircraft carrier, the USS John C. Stennis, turning its flight deck into what was built as the world's largest outdoor movie theater. That's cool. I've seen a movie on one of the ships, the one in New York. In New York. Mm-hmm. I can't think of it right now. But. I will ask. That was cool.

[01:08:31] More than 2,000 guests attended the premiere, including Hawaii officials, the film's cast, and over 500 members of the international press. And Disney apparently, reportedly spent an estimated $5 million on the premiere event alone. Disney had money. Disney had money to make this movie. It really did.

[01:08:54] So the character portrayed by Cuba Gooding Jr., Doris Dory Miller, was the first black man to be awarded the Navy Cross, like we had mentioned earlier. He was later assigned to the escort carrier, Liz Combe Bay. Miller was reported missing in action in November 1943, when it was torpedoed during the Battle of Macon Island. Mm-hmm. I know. And Alec Baldwin, Josh Harnett, and Ben Affleck were all given basic flight training so that they could handle the planes.

[01:09:24] They really wanted to get various shots of the actors in the pilot seats and the real pilot, like as the real pilots. And they would simply pilot the plane to the desired destination. And then the actor would take over while the camera crew moved alongside to get the shot. After this, the real pilot would take over, which is funny because Ben Affleck is apparently very afraid of heights. So... USS Nimitz is New York.

[01:09:54] USS what? Nimitz. Mm-hmm. There's Nimitz, Arlington, and Eagle. Oh, wait. Intrepid. Yes, that's what it is. That's the one I want. Kate Beckinsale claimed that her romantic scenes with Ben Affleck were film-laden production, which made it hard to kiss him on the lips without laughing, since the two of them had gotten to be friends during the shoot. Affleck agreed, saying that it was awkward, like kissing a sister.

[01:10:25] And on the DVD commentary, Michael Bay said that the heavily criticized first part of the film was designed to show American naivete toward the possibility of becoming embroiled in the European war. He says that the first part of is so colorful and happy because that's what things were like back then for the white people. The survivors he spoke to said there was a sense of being untouchable.

[01:10:52] Bay claims that many survivors told him that he captured the pre-Pearl Harbor atmosphere perfectly. One historian also admitted that for all its inaccuracies, the use of swing music was very well done, in particular Glenn Miller's Chattanooga Choo Choo, which was the number one song in America at the time of the attack. Okay.

[01:11:18] So the music coordinator did their research, is what you're telling me. Somebody was clocking in. I will say that the first part of the movie was shot, cinematically was beautiful. Mm-hmm. Like all the pops of color. Like you said, when she shows up at the train station and the smoke swirling around her and stuff. It was all just visually very beautiful.

[01:11:45] Rest of the movie and the contents of the movie, not so much. Well, if you have any opinions or thoughts, if we got it wrong, if we got it right, you know where to find us at NoMoreLateFees on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube, and Threads. And Jackie, what is your today rating of Pearl Harbor? I'm going to give it a two-day rental.

[01:12:09] I think understanding the attack at Pearl Harbor and how devastating it was to the people involved is important, but I didn't need the love story. Josh Hartnett was fun to look at. Kate Beckinsale was fun to look at. But beyond that, I'm not going to probably go back. Yeah, it's the same day rating for me. I'm glad it's, I'm done. I don't have to watch it again.

[01:12:39] Well, if you have opinions about Pearl Harbor, hit us up at our quick drop, 909-601-6653. You can text us or call us and leave a voicemail at that number. You can also leave us comments on Spotify, Twitter, Threads, Blue Sky, wherever you find us, and you could be featured on a future episode. And join us next week as we kick ass, take names with Charlie's Angels full throttle.

[01:13:09] And as always, be kind and rewind.