Kerr Smith on Dawson's Creek, Jack McPhee & I Don't Want to Wait

[00:00:00] In the late 90s and early 2000s, there were certain faces you just couldn't escape. They were on your TV screens in your favorite movies and staring back at you from the shelves of your local blockbuster. And our guest today was one of them. Whether you fell in love with him as Jack McPhee on Dawson's Creek, watched him try to outrun death in Final Destination, or watched him navigate the supernatural world of Charmed, Kerr Smith was part of the pop culture that raised us.

[00:00:26] And now he's taking us back to that era with his book, I Dont Want to Wait. We've got questions, we've got memories, and you know we're going to get some of those behind the scenes stories.

[00:00:38] Today we're welcoming someone who helped shape the golden age of teen television. From his early days on As the World Turns to becoming Jack McPhee on Dawson's Creek, our guest has built a career filled with characters that have stayed with audiences long after the credits rolled.

[00:01:05] If you were a teenager in the late 90s and early 2000s, you probably remember him from Final Destination, Charmed, and later My Bloody Valentine 3D. But his impact goes beyond nostalgia. His portrayal of Jack McPhee helped break barriers on network television and gave a generation of viewers a character they could see themselves in. Now he's revisiting the show, the friendships, and the unforgettable moments that made Capeside such a special place in his book. I Dont Want to Wait, My Life on Dawson's Creek.

[00:01:34] We're so excited to welcome actor and author Kerr Smith to No More Late Fees. Welcome to the show, Kerr. Thank you so much for coming. Obviously we're excited to have you on the show, but we're even more thrilled about the book. Jackie and I have been like speed reading through and just enjoying it. It has been such an easy read, by the way. Yes. Well that's good. Yes. Your new book is called I Don't Want to Wait, My Life on Dawson's Creek.

[00:02:05] So congrats to adding author to your hyphenates. Thank you. Did you think that was going to ever happen? Did you ever think you were going to be an author? I didn't. No, it's something that I've always aspired to, but you know, I didn't think I'd ever do it. It took two years and it was quite a journey, I gotta be honest with you. Well, one thing we really appreciate about the book is that it doesn't read like a traditional celebrity memoir.

[00:02:30] It really feels like you're preserving a piece of television history as well as your own. You brought together stories and perspectives from the cast, producers, writers, directors, and so many others who helped bring Dawson's Creek to life. What inspired you to take this approach instead of writing a more traditional memoir? Well, you know, one, I felt that my story, Jack's story in particular, was something that needed to be told. So yes, there is definitely that in the book. Plus I wanted people to get to know me a little bit more.

[00:03:00] So there, it is a memoir of sorts, but it is a book on Dawson's Creek. And that's why I did several dozen interviews. I wanted to get everybody else's take on what it was like living through that experience, you know, when the cameras weren't rolling. So yeah, you're right. It's a, it's a mix of a couple of different things really. Yeah.

[00:03:21] So as you were gathering everyone's stories, did you discover anything that like completely changed how you remembered that time in your life or anything that was like shocking? Everything was shocking. And this is why, and I, I actually addressed this in the prologue because it was so ridiculous. I found out that nobody remembers the same event, the same way. I doesn't, it's crazy to me.

[00:03:44] For example, you know, when Kevin Williamson came down to Wilmington and said, look, we're going to go down a different avenue with, with Jack and are you on board? And he remembers that experience a lot differently than I do. Really? Yeah. Yeah. There's some things that I remember him specifically saying that he doesn't, he doesn't remember, swears by, but it's what it is. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. That, I mean, that's memory. We have that a lot on the show. So we're not surprised that that happened.

[00:04:15] Yeah. Yeah. When, when you're part of something as culturally significant as Dawson's Creek, I think people often assume you don't realize the impact you're making while you're living in it. But something that stood out to us in the book was how you seem genuinely aware of how special that experience was in real time at, in different moments as you're retelling it.

[00:04:36] There was this sense of gratitude, even in the middle of the craziness did revisiting those memories and hearing everyone's reflections gave you an even deeper appreciation for what all the things that you created together on the show. Way deeper. Yeah, you're right. I, Daniel, I did have an appreciation back then, but not to the depth of, of what I do today.

[00:04:56] You know, it's that 25 years of hindsight being 54 years old now that, you know, you can look back and go, wow, that was really an iconic time that I had a front row seat to. So, you know, I just felt like those stories that I knew needed to be told. Yeah.

[00:05:15] I do really like that in the book, when you're interviewing everybody, they, they talk about like, almost like a breath of fresh air, because the way you were experiencing things together with the cast, you were just like having the time of your life doing it. And while at some points, I think probably was overwhelming for the rest of the cast, you know, with you coming a little bit later, that must've been nice. It was interesting.

[00:05:42] Like, I remember, you know, I just got this, what I consider to be one of the best jobs in TV land at the time. And, you know, I, I, now I've got to get down to Wilmington and acclimate myself into that group that's already been working together for a season. So fortunately I get off the van before I even get to the hotel, my phone rings and it's Katie Holmes saying, Hey, I hear you're playing my, my new boyfriend. Let's go get some dinner.

[00:06:13] That was my, that was my introduction to, to Wilmington and, and, and that group. So that, I mean, that's what it was. That's the kind of family that it was, you know, Katie always referred to the experience as her, her bubble. I always referred to it as camp Dawson's Creek, you know, and I think, I think shooting in Wilmington lends to how the show turned out because had we shot it in Los Angeles, it probably would have been a very different.

[00:06:39] It definitely would have been a very different experience for all of us. You know, we go to work, we go home, we all have our own lives, but being in Wilmington kind of out of your, your, your home ground, we were all kind of forced together as a family. And that's exactly what it ended up being. So I think that's one of the reasons why the show is so special. And that's what I wanted to bring to the book, right? Cause people don't know the behind the scenes stuff.

[00:07:03] I love that story that you include where someone, I want to say it was James Van Der Beek needed a sweater. And so he called like his, the actress that played his mom and he was able to describe like where in his apartment it was. And she brought it to set because she lived nearby and stuff.

[00:07:25] And so it really is a Testament. Like you wouldn't, like you said, get that if you were in LA or New York shooting, it was very tight knit group. Yeah. I love, I love that story that Mary Margaret told. And it's, it's true. It's like James was probably thinking, I don't want to bother transpo or wardrobe or whoever else would have to run out to his house. Mary Margaret lives right down the street. She'll grab it. She's not doing anything today. That's just the kind of mentality it was. It was great.

[00:07:54] That's amazing. So hold on, Danielle. What you have, you have the 90210 poster back there. Where's the Dawson's Creek? Her relax, relax. This is just something I got on the internet. It's not even my room. Oh, that's so lame. I'm sitting in a hotel bathroom showing you my back wall. I had to remove like towels and robes and stuff. Making sure I don't have a shot of the toilet. It's Zoom, baby. You can put whatever background you want.

[00:08:23] So this is my actual bedroom from, from when she was, from when I was in high school. Is that, okay. Is that final destination over your left shoulder? It might be. Most of it is Hanson, but I, I did have two things. Are you a Hanson fan? I am a fan fan.

[00:08:44] Okay. Quick story. Meredith Monroe and I are, were asked to do a press tour in South America, Mexico city, all the way down to Argentina. It was incredible trip. And I believe it was South Apollo. I was at the hotel on the roof and I was looking down at a crowd of people and I would, I would look down and everybody go, ah, like South America, they're crazy fans of Dawson's Creek.

[00:09:13] And I'm like, oh, this is so cool. Check this out. Meredith leans over. Oh, what I realized later is that Hanson was also staying at the hotel and probably a lot of those people were there for them. It could have been you. I don't know if you're that crazy of a fan where you're going to travel to South Apollo. I am not. There are to this day fans, but I do see them once a year at Epcot in Orlando. They play there every year. So I, are they still together?

[00:09:39] They are. Well, since we rewound my high school bedroom, let's rewind on your past a little bit in the book. You do give us some insights into your mindset when you decided to pursue acting, including your parents reaction. When you told them you wanted to move to New York city to give it a real shot. Why the decision, New York versus LA? Well, because I grew up outside of Philadelphia. So I'm an East coast guy. Yeah.

[00:10:05] So, you know, it was an easy drive, a couple of hours, get up there. Me and my best friend went up there and started a life. And that was the right choice. I think not, I took nine months and I was on as the world turns, which was my first really big job. You don't know this yet, but I am obsessed with soap operas. So the moment I clocked in on this, very excited.

[00:10:29] We make a joke on the show that I do not really get starstruck except soap opera stars. It's so random. Okay. You two are, this is different. Hanson and soap opera. Yes. What is going on here? So, you know, do you know my character from world turns? I remember. Cause like during this time, there's like a, almost every soap opera had during the summers and stuff like a teen scene or whatever.

[00:10:57] But I watched general, like the ABC shows a lot. I didn't watch the CBS shows too, too much, but I know when I was looking, I saw, I was like, oh, I, I knew the care. Like you, you were a Hughes, right? So it's, that was like a prominent family on that show. So I missed you. I'm sorry.

[00:11:16] Well, thank God. Cause it's the worst performance I've ever, I mean, that's pathetic. Like I actually had to learn how to act in front of millions of people. That's, I can't, I can't even watch it. It's so bad. Oh no. So please don't go back and watch it. I will now that you've told me this, I'm definitely going back, but I think that people who start off on soap operas end up being such better actors. Do you feel like it really gave you that core?

[00:11:44] Here's yeah. Here's why. And this is my own opinion, but I always called soap acting as kind of a bootcamp for actors because you're working at such an incredibly fast pace. You're doing 60 pages a day, which is insane. Yeah. So you learn to do things very quickly. Now, would I want to be a soap actor for a decade? No. Cause you could pick up some very bad habits.

[00:12:07] Right. But in terms of training, I was only on for 18 months. So it helped me. Well, one, it helped me memorize, which is a basic need in our business, but. It just got me started very quickly. You know what I mean? It's, it was certainly a bootcamp. Cool story. Yesterday I did CBS mornings. I saw it. Yeah.

[00:12:31] The live interview. Yeah. And it was the first time that I was in the CBS building on, on 50, I think it's 56 or 57th. I can't remember since world turns.

[00:13:10] Oh, wow. Storyline was truly groundbreaking television. Now I don't really remember a whole lot from those years. We joke about my memory always coming in and out, but I remember that whole storyline. Like it was yesterday, like it was so impactful, not just to me, but so many teens, adults, families being able to watch it together.

[00:13:35] So I was really shocked in the book to learn that Jack being gay and his eventual coming out story wasn't a part of the original character description you were giving. Oh, no. So how, how, how was it? I don't want to ruin it for our listeners, but because you are so open and vulnerable in the book and about how it made you felt and the decision and everything it took to like get to saying, yes, I'm going to do this. What was it about that?

[00:14:02] That ultimately clicked for you that said, yeah, I'm going to make this, I'm going to do this storyline. It was two things. One, as scary as it was, I did have the consciousness to realize that I could be a part of something really unique, really special and really groundbreaking. You know, especially in 1998, 99, it wasn't being done on television and a dramatic scenario with teenagers.

[00:14:31] So it would have been the first. The second reason was a conversation I had with John Wesley Shipp. You know, I had concerns and I went to him for guidance because he was already a pro. He'd already been a star of his own hit show. And I said, you know, John, what do you think? And he said one thing to me, he said, if you do this, you will get the very best of Kevin Williamson's writing. And I thought, my God, you're right. He'll put his heart and soul into this. And I want to be a part of that.

[00:15:01] So those were two, two things. There were many, but two things that really helped me make the decision. I love when, especially like teen shows, when you can collaborate with the older actors and they're kind and they bring you in that that's wonderful to hear that you were able to have that experience and get that insight. Oh, yeah. Between John and Mary Margaret and Mary Beth Peel. I mean, we had veterans, you know, because we were all kids.

[00:15:28] You know, some of us had a little bit of experience more than others. But, you know, out of the six of us, it was. We were just going day by day trying to deal with sudden crazy fame. I mean, it was just insane back then. So it was a tough space to navigate and to have those older folks on the cast with us really, really helped. Yeah.

[00:15:53] So we're going to pause for Dawson's Creek for a little bit and just talk about some of the other projects you worked on while you were filming the show. In the book, you talked about how so many of you were burning the candle at both ends, filming Dawson's while also launching your movie careers. What was it like juggling those projects, especially when you were playing characters so drastically different, like Carter in Final Destination versus Jack on Dawson's?

[00:16:19] Yeah. Back in those days, you know, when there were just five networks and there was no streaming, you know, you were doing 23-ish episodes a year. You know, that's nine months at least of your life. So. And you are burning the candle at both ends, because in those days, everybody on the WB just scrambled to get the best film they could during the hiatus because there weren't that many available. Right. Yeah.

[00:16:46] So we all just went out and tried to grab the best job. I specifically had a plan where, okay, I'm now playing this character, Jack McPhee. We've gone down a different avenue. It was risky for me in 98, 99, in that era. I need to do something very different than Jack. So I specifically went for roles that were exactly that. And when Final Destination came up, which was at the time called Flight 180, terrible title.

[00:17:16] I remember the character of Carter Horton. I was like, this is perfect. This guy's a dick. He's not Jack McPhee at all. He's a meathead. It's perfect. And ended up getting it. And that, you know, that was my first role during the show. Well, did you have any idea when you were filming that movie, it would become such a cultural phenomenon? It's spawning so many sequels. And still, like, people are coming up to you today. Kids are seeing it now for the first time and experiencing it.

[00:17:45] It's crazy. Like, I do all these conventions now, and most of them are for Final Destination. And it's insane how much people love that franchise. But, you know, yeah, you're right. When you're doing the first movie, you don't know there's going to be a franchise. Yeah, right. You can get hints of like, oh, these producers really know what they're doing, which I did. Quick story. On the title, I remember being in the Vancouver airport, which is where we shot all the airport stuff.

[00:18:12] I went up to one of the producers and I said, Light 180? Really? He's like, yeah, I know. It's bad. He goes, we're working on it. A couple of weeks later, he comes back to me. He's like, Kerr, Final Destination. Boom. Yes, that is it. Perfect. Excellent. But there were other hints that made me go, okay, these guys really know what they're doing. I'll give you one example. Again, in the airport, you know how you walk down the jetway to get to the airplane?

[00:18:41] Well, they had built a jetway for us and I'm six feet tall. So it was, I don't know, eight feet tall when you entered the little tube. As you walk down to the end of the jetway, the ceiling was inches over my head. So they had purposely skewed the dimensions of what they were building. It didn't tell anybody so that your brain would go. Something's a little weird here. Yeah. Kind of thing. And it worked.

[00:19:07] So when they were doing things like that, and that's not the only scene, they did it in a lot of scenes. I was like, okay, these guys are special. They really know what they're doing. Yeah. Wow. Mind games. We just did Blair Witch Project on the podcast and they went through some stuff too. They were doing all sorts of psychological warfare on them on that movie. Were they really? I'll tell you something. When they go into the basement and that little girl is standing in the corner in the dark facing the wall,

[00:19:34] I had never, that is one of the scariest moments I can think of watching a movie other than The Ring, which I, it's, The Ring's brutal for me. I don't know how those guys did that. So fun, fun story. I never saw it when it came out. Oh, great. You have seen it now though, because I just blew it for you. No, no, no. We just watched it for the, we rewatch every movie before we do the episode.

[00:20:02] And I was like, that was one of those movies that you, you had to be there to watch it now. I'm like, y'all gotta be kidding me. What is this? But back then with the marketing campaign and everything, I'm sure it just like made it even scarier because people thought it was real, you know? And I went camping the day after we watched it. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. You don't want to do that. And then it was like, there's a pile of rocks. What does that mean?

[00:20:31] Like it was terrifying for a 17 year old. Did you bring a camera and make it as shaky as possible? I should have. Missed opportunity. I think I may have thrown up in that movie, not because it was scarier because of the. The vertigo feeling. Oh my gosh. Definitely. Absolutely not. Do you have any other fun behind the scenes stories from Final Destination? It seemed like that was, that was a good cast and. Great environment.

[00:20:59] Just Devin and Allie being together on that set. Yeah, I did see. I remember we, when we were in the plane, it was a piece of a fuselage that they had recreated in the studio. And there was a special effects guy over in the corner with a joystick and the thing was up on a, on a gimbal. And he just would go. And the whole thing would rock back and forth and do all this crazy stuff.

[00:21:27] And we started shooting that, the plane scene when it blows up and the damn thing broke. Oh no. In like this position. So we're all sitting here like this for like a half an hour trying to get off this thing so they could fix it. So that was day one of inside the airplane for us. I've been like, pack it up. I'm, I'm done. I mean, yeah, it was weird.

[00:21:50] Well, speaking of Final Destination, you also did The Forsaken and we had your co-star Brendan Fair on the show. Don't get jealous. But I was obsessed with Roswell, like to a point where it was a little scary. Not that I didn't love Dawson's, but I made like a scrapbook and was very lucky to get Brendan and Mahondra to come on the show. So you got to work with him in two movies and they were both horror. Plus you did Bloody Valentine.

[00:22:20] Was it again, like you said, that you were just trying to get away from Jack and Dawson's Creek that you were doing horror movies? Was that kind of by accident? Probably by accident because, you know, after I did Final Destination and it was such a big success, then all of a sudden trying to, trying to get away from Dawson's. Now I'm stuck in a thriller scenario. So it's like, you know, you have one successful role of a certain type and it's like, boom, that's how everybody sees you. So you're constantly fighting typecast.

[00:22:48] So it's tough, but you know, I don't mind doing thrillers or even horrors. They're fun. And I'll tell you the one thing I've never done, which really upsets me that I've always wanted to do because I'm such, this guy is science fiction. I'm such a sci-fi guy and I've never been able to play any, any role on a spaceship or anything like that. We're going to put it out there for you. You're going to get like Star Trek or something. I feel it. Oh, that'd be, oh, that would be my absolute dream. Yeah.

[00:23:17] I'm going to make it happen for you. Don't worry. All right. Sweet. Are you Chester, Chester Manifestor over there? Yeah, sure. You know, I make things happen. I'm putting you to work, Danielle. Any fun recollections working with Brendan, especially since you guys were part of the WB family at the time? Yeah, Brendan and I had a blast doing Forsaken. I'm glad you brought it up too, because not many people do. I love that movie for what it is.

[00:23:45] I mean, I thought it was really well done. One, it's, you know, you can't go wrong with vampires in the desert. Right. Kind of thing. And then you get the car in there and it's just, you know, the journey is just, it's there. And it's, I don't know. I just really like it. And actually, interestingly enough, the movie's been coming up a lot lately at conventions. I never used to get anybody grabbing the, you know, the Forsaken picture off of my table to sign. It's always been Final Destination. And now all of a sudden it's happening. So I guess people were watching it.

[00:24:15] So, yeah, I mean, working with Brendan was great. He's a good dude. We had a blast on that film. It was tough because it was, you know, being a vampire movie, it was a lot of nights. Yeah. It's very hard to adapt to. I can't even imagine. I would have fallen asleep. Yeah. It's the first couple of nights are tough. Well, we're just disappointed that we didn't get to see you in a Kevin Williamson horror film. But there's still time. Right? Right? Because Katie did.

[00:24:43] Well, I don't know if Teaching Mrs. Tingle was horror per se, but it was adjacent. Yeah. I believe Teaching Mrs. Tingle was actually shot prior to Dawson's Creek, I believe. Wasn't it? Or was it in between season one and season two? It was. I think it was in between because, if I can remember, the faculty, I think they wanted Kevin to direct, but he was doing Teaching Mrs. Tingle at the time.

[00:25:10] So he couldn't do it, even though he wrote that film. So it was during Dawson's Creek. And then obviously Josh did Scream 2. Oh, did he? I didn't know that. Yeah. I remember him doing Skulls back then. Yes. Yeah. He did. He was briefly in Scream 2 in a classroom scene. So they both got to do it. You all did a lot of horror movies during that time frame. So it was cool. Yeah. Michelle did Halloween. One of the Halloweens.

[00:25:40] She did Halloween H2O. So that was also filming during the faculty, like not too far in between because Josh Harnett was going back and like right back to back on that. Well, Danielle, I could have used your insight and wisdom on the book. You know a little bit more about this than I do. That's what we're here for, Kerry. You should have called us. Available anytime. Anytime. So I have a question.

[00:26:08] What, so, because I remember the blockbuster days like it was yesterday, going through the aisles, selecting a movie, not rewinding it, having to pay the fees. What was it like working there? Well, now, go ahead. I was Danielle's manager. Okay. I got her the job. And no, Jackie. We're pulling rank already. He didn't get me the job. Jackie got a job at blockbuster first. I really want, we both love movies. That's how we became friends. We met 10th grade of high school.

[00:26:39] And so she got the job first. I, her blockbuster was full. So I had to apply to different blockbusters. So I got hired there. Then she got me hired at her blockbuster when I came home from college. And then she was my manager, which was a nightmare scenario for her because I can't keep my mouth to myself. Oh, okay. And we worked in, I don't know if you know anything about Florida, but Boca Raton has a certain kind of clientele and a sassy.

[00:27:07] And the client or the customers were cranky and it was just not a great combination. You had to keep her in line, Jackie. I just was like, there's my district manager's number. I don't know what you want from me. Like, I, I can't control her. But why would she want to? It was wild. I started working at blockbuster when I was 17 in 1999 and I worked there until 2007.

[00:27:33] So I got to see the progression of VHS to DVD and then the like two day rentals and then the no more late fees. Like I saw it all. And as soon as they were like, we're going to get rid of late fees. I was like, y'all are not lasting much longer. Like I, I know how this business model works by now and that's where we're making our money. So, but it was wild. And then like the DVDs, cause you had the full screen, you had the pan and skin and you had the widescreen.

[00:28:02] I have never had so many DVDs thrown at me when they started doing widescreen because the elder clientele in Boca Raton, Florida would be like, I'm missing parts of the movie. And like, no, like I had to print out a picture of like what a full screen look like and what widescreen. I'm like, see this whole other person that's not in this picture. That's what you're missing when you do full screen.

[00:28:31] And it was just trying to explain things like that. Or we get people come in and be like, can you come to my house and set up my DVD player for me? It's like, absolutely not. That sounds like a. So you say they're missing it. So wait, you see, you're saying they're playing on the old four by three. Correct. Tube format. Well, doesn't it do the black on. Then they would be mad that there were black bars on the top. Oh, that's so dumb. Yeah. They would bring the DVD back and say, this is broken. That is so dumb. It's not.

[00:29:00] You don't know the dumb we face at Blockbuster. Truly. Oh, Crouching Tiger. Forget about it. I want this in English. Where's all these words? Oh, come on. Yeah. That's insane. I don't want to have to read a movie. It's a foreign film. I don't know what to tell you. I don't have a dubbed version to give you. Oh, my gosh. They should know that before they rent it. Yeah. Do you remember when Netflix came into the scene?

[00:29:29] Yeah, it was. The original business model was, you know, you would rent, I guess, in the mail, like up to three DVDs and they'd show up. You watch them, you send them back. This is before streaming. That was, when that came around, I was like, oh, Blockbuster's in trouble. Oh, we had, so Blockbuster had something like Netflix where you could actually have the DVD sent to you. So I was getting those for a while. Like, I was just renting them.

[00:29:58] And then eventually I did shift to Netflix because they had a larger range. And they were significantly cheaper. Netflix was like 10 bucks a month where Blockbuster Online, genius name, was $30 a month. What? Yeah. And I'm like, and they would pressure us to sell. And I am not a salesperson. Like, I have a lot of strengths. That's not one of them. And so it'd be like, you didn't sell any Blockbuster Online or sign anyone up on your shift. I'm like, I'm not going to.

[00:30:28] Like, that's just not where I live. So here's my district manager's number. Yes. You can talk to him about it. You can complain to him about it. But that's also why Jackie would put me on her shift because I would sell the rewards programs like hotcakes. So you are the sales. Okay. Yeah. So it worked out. Yeah. She's like, I can handle a few people complaining if she's selling hot, like hotcakes. Yeah. I don't have to listen to you got no sales this shit.

[00:30:57] But one of the best things about Blockbuster is that we got a bunch of free rentals. So we did get to see a lot of like the movies that especially your cast, you know, all the WB cast members were in that maybe flew under the radar. One being the Broken Hearts Club. We actually covered that on the podcast. You got to work with the brilliant Greg Berlanti. You had him, you know, you interviewed him for the book and you got to be in that movie. What was it like working with him in a completely different capacity?

[00:31:27] And why did you want to join in the movie? Did he ask you to participate or how did that go? Yeah. So at that point in Dawson's timeline, Greg was, I believe, running the show. Kevin had already left. So, and, you know, Greg was writing my storyline specifically. So yeah, that came around one summer. I think it was his first movie that he directed. He just, he just asked me to do it. I mean, it was, you know, it's just a little cameo.

[00:31:55] I thought it was just kind of an inside joke. You know, I take the catcher's mask off and boom, there's Jack McPhee in this movie of gay guys. So it's like, I thought it was funny and it was, it was cute. And yeah, I don't know. I was honored for him to even ask me. Yeah. I mean, the cast was stacked. I mean, it's a deep cut for most, but like, it's crazy because Greg's career, you look at, he was on Dawson's and then like literally running the CW essentially,

[00:32:22] like all the shows that he had ever would from the WB to CW. So I can imagine just being able to work with him. There's so many talents on that show that you got to work with, including yourself. That must've been just amazing. I remember meeting Greg for the first time. He, he, and it was actually the week he flew down with Kevin and it was the weekend that they were going to tell me that we're going down a different Avenue with Jack.

[00:32:50] And that's one of the surprising things I learned from interviewing these guys is that they were nervous as hell about it. I was like, oh my gosh, I had no idea. I didn't even know that's the reason why they flew down that week. But I remember, I remember meeting 26 years old. I remember shaking his hand for the first time in the restaurant. And there was something about him that I just went, this guy's going to be huge. And all I said to him was hello at this point. He just has that energy about him. And, you know, sure enough, he's obviously brilliant at what he does.

[00:33:19] And it's been a privilege to work with him over the years. Even, you know, he, he cast me in Riverdale on Holden Honey. Yeah, that was, that was really cool on Riverdale that like you got to be on that show. Like so many teen heartthrobs from teen shows from the past got to come on Riverdale. Which was like the new teen heartthrobs. Hey, that was, that was full circle for me. That, that Riverdale job was. I'll tell you a story.

[00:33:45] So back in the day we had Harry Shearer play one of our principals in Dawson's. We had, you know, we had Oba Baba Tunde played one as well. I love saying his name. Oba Baba Tunde. He played the principal too. But Harry Shearer was doing a scene and he was falling asleep in his chair in between takes. And I'm sitting there going, what, how, how all the chaos going on around you. How is he sleeping right now? Let's cut to 30 years later. Yeah.

[00:34:15] Well, Kerr's playing the principal of Riverdale. And Kerr's falling asleep in his chair in between takes with no problem. I have no problem falling asleep in between. So it was very full circle for me. That was probably the first time I realized, oh my God, I'm the old guy. This sucks. But it is what it is. You have to embrace it. And it was, Riverdale was a real pleasure. I really enjoyed playing Holden Honey. That was a fun, fun character for me.

[00:34:44] And they let me do whatever. Yeah, that show was wild. Wild. Yeah. You know, it got crazy. It definitely got crazy. So putting this book together must have almost felt like kismet now. So not only were you able to preserve the stories and memories from such a special time in your life and the history of a groundbreaking show, but you also capture James's memories in his own words.

[00:35:10] Those are stories that will live on, not just for fans, but for his children to read and cherish as part of their father's legacy. So what does it mean to you now, knowing that you've helped preserve these stories for generations to come? Oh, a lot. Yeah. I mean, you know, that was definitely part of the point of writing this book is I want to preserve those memories. It just so happened that, you know, James is going through what he was going through at the time.

[00:35:38] I'm super grateful that he gave me the time, even though he wasn't feeling well when we did the interview. And he gave a great interview. He gave it his all. It was, you know, and it was heady and it was intelligent, as James always was. And, you know, he contributed to the book quite a bit. And I'm very grateful for that. Well, I know we didn't want to make it too heavy, but so we're going to add a little levity. And since we talked about Blockbuster, you're now an honorary Blockbuster employee today.

[00:36:08] Oh, wow. Cool. Do I get a shirt? It's in the mail. It may get lost, but it's on its way. Do I get the district manager's number? Yes, absolutely. But we were able to recommend movies to customers that came in and asked for our opinions on movies. So give us three movies from the 90s and 2000s that are a must watch for you. Wow.

[00:36:36] Out of all the questions, this is always the one that stumps everybody. Okay. Three movies? Yes. Shawshank. Shawshank. Excellent. Okay. Braveheart. Matrix. Love it. All right. Yeah. Those are three of my top 10 for sure. And I think they all fall into that range for you guys. Well, Kerr, I want to leave our listeners with something from your book that really resonated with me personally.

[00:37:04] You wrote pretty early on in the book this beautiful passage about how every actor has a before, a time when they're just living their life, not knowing that somewhere out there, the project or opportunity that's going to change everything is already taking shape. And I think that's such a beautiful reminder, not just for actors, but for anyone who's going through a difficult season in life, especially right now, and wondering when is it going to be my turn?

[00:37:31] Sometimes we get caught up in where are we, and we forget something wonderful could already be unfolding for us, and we just haven't reached that chapter yet. So for anyone listening who needs to hear it, your best days may still be ahead of you. They might even be taking shape right now in ways you can't even see. So, Kerr, thank you for sharing your story, for helping preserve such an important piece of television history,

[00:37:57] and reminding us that sometimes the most life-changing chapters are the ones we never see coming. Oh, thank you for saying that. That's very nice. I'll expand on that, too. Yeah. Since you got into the manifestation a little bit, and I didn't put this in the book, but just, you know, in reference to what you just said, just keep a positive attitude, and whatever you believe, like truly believe, will happen. The universe has to give it to you. Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:38:25] So those good things will come if you believe that they've already happened to you, actually, is the way to do it. Well, I believe that you would be on the show, and here you are. There you go. And we believe someday we will see you in a sci-fi project. Yes. And we'll be like, we made that happen. Absolutely. Yeah, that's up to you guys. So let's put those powers to work. Absolutely. Could you specifically make it a captain in Star Trek? Because I would really like to do that. Totally.

[00:38:54] I grew up, my dad was a huge trekker, and so I have continued on that tradition. I have a Christmas tree that is solely the Hallmark ship ornaments, and it's a black tree, so it looks like they're floating in space. So I'm right there with you. That's very cool. As I put up my tree this year, I'll be like, Kerr will be the captain. This is where Kerr is going to be. Yeah. I will be hanging his ship one day on my tree. Yes. Yes.

[00:39:22] My buddy, I have a friend that I actually did, I did my first movie with him, Todd Stashwick. He played the captain of the Enterprise in the Picard series, and I am so jealous. Well, there's your end. He knows, he gotta know somebody over there. Oh, trust me, I'm working it. I see you in the conventions every now and then. It's like, come on, man, help me out. Start an online petition. Great. Great.

[00:39:48] Well, Kerr, again, thank you so much for joining us and being part of so many projects that help shape our generation. It's been truly a pleasure speaking with you and taking your time out of your day to speak with us. Thanks, ladies. It's been really fun. I appreciate it. Oh, thank you. We really appreciate it, truly. We're an awesome person. From the hotel bathroom in New York City. Kerr Smith signing off. Let me check the background, make sure. Yeah, you're good. A little late for that. We would have never known it was the bathroom had you not to.

[00:40:17] I have to say it because it's so ridiculous. Well, thanks again. We really, really appreciate your time. Come back anytime. Yeah. Thanks. And if you want to get Kerr's book, I Don't Want to Wait, My Life on Dawson's Creek, make sure you hit the link in our show notes and it comes out November 10th. And as always, be kind and rewind.