Gossip

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[00:00:30] Salacious group chats. Gossip spread the old-fashioned way. Whisper to whisper, lie to lie and reputation to reputation. So when 2000s Gossip hit the theaters with an all-star cast, we were set. So let's see what happens when a rumor goes too far.

[00:01:01] Welcome to the No More Late Fees podcast. I'm Jackie. And I'm Danielle. And we're just two best friends and ex-Blockbuster employees re-watching some of the best. And worst. Movies from the late 90s and early 2000s. And guess what guys? Joshua Jackson Mayhem Month continues. So of course, this week's episode is a movie that stars our boy Joshua Jackson. And we're doing the 2000 thriller Gossip.

[00:01:30] But before we dive in, let's get into some housekeeping. Oh, you whispered. Should I do that too? No. If you love gossip or the podcast and you want to support us, here's how you can. Are you loving our deep dives into your favorite 90s and 2000s films? Show us some love and leave us a review on Apple.

[00:01:57] Danielle, tell us what the movie is about. Girl. Vibes. There were vibes in Pretty People. Yeah. Pretty People and Vibes. And I think it's in New York. Three roommates invent a story about a popular girl to track how quickly gossip spreads on campus. And they call it some sort of, you know, project for school. Yeah.

[00:02:23] But things get turned upside down and the rumor turns pretty serious because there's a date rape allegation forcing everyone involved to deal with the consequences of their actions. And I do want to give a warning that this movie obviously just said deals with rape and sexual assault. So trigger warning for that.

[00:02:49] The movie stars, of course, Joshua Jackson, James Marston, Lena Headey, Norman Reedus, Kate Hudson, Marissa Coughlin, Sharon Lawrence, and Edward James Olmos. The movie was directed by Davis Guggenheim and was written by Gregory Poirier and Teresa Rebeck. And you can currently watch it for rent on Amazon. Did we rent it on Amazon or Apple?

[00:03:20] I think I bought it. Oh. Okay. And guess what, guys? Jackie and I got to watch this together in real life. We did. IRL, people. It's a rarity, but we got to watch it. I fell asleep a few times. And it wasn't because the movie I thought was bad. It was just, bitch was on a sugar high and was ready to pass out. Tired.

[00:03:48] We did have a little bit of a sleepover vibe going on. Yeah. So there were snacks and new jammies. And Ken watched the whole thing and had minimal questions. I love how I told Ken this, like, welcome to his first sleepover with us. But it was like, he probably looked at me and like, bitch, we done done this a million times already.

[00:04:14] I.e. the notebook of recent memory. Well, before we get started, let's get into our ratings rewind. So you know the drill. Before we get into the movie, we'll reveal the rating our Y2K versions of ourselves would give. Then at the end, we'll see if our current selves agree with our initial rating. Our scale consists of would buy it, would buy it again. The best would plan repeat. Five day rental. Would watch again. Two day rental.

[00:04:44] Nah, okay. But nothing to write home about. And same day rental. Get it to the back alley because it's trash. I love how you put a little, little thing. Puzzah. A zigzag. Okay, Jackie, what is your Y2K rating of gossip? So, you know, it has all the people I like in it. And I was like, yeah, gossip. Yeah.

[00:05:14] That movie. I know I've seen. Nope. Thinking about the in crowd the whole time. So, I have never seen this movie. We are deep into the movie and Jackie goes, you know, I've never seen this. I think I was confusing this with the in crowd. And I said, you know, we're like almost done with this movie. When did this click?

[00:05:43] I was waiting for the moment where I was like, okay. And that moment never came. And then it was almost the end. I was like, I don't think I've seen this movie. And I was no help because I've seen it, but couldn't remember a thing, girl. Couldn't remember a thing. I kept waiting for that snap for it to be like, oh. Because I knew there was a twist and I just, I couldn't put my finger on it. I was like, girl, I don't know what the hell's going to happen. This is brand new to me.

[00:06:12] We were sat on the edge of our seats. It was brand new to us. I will say, even though I don't remember a thing, I vividly remember what the DVD case looks like for this. Yes. And I feel like I had it on VHS. So, I'm going to say it was a would buy. It just sat on your shelf? I don't know. I just know I had it.

[00:06:42] I don't think I have it anymore. But I know at some point I did own it. All right. Let's see. So, it's April 21st, 2000. Joshua Jackson is currently on Dawson's Creek. He just dropped the skulls a month prior. Damn, they came out a month apart? They sure did. Oh. And then he drops this, this banger.

[00:07:12] $24 million budget. It did not make its budget back. I'm sorry. $12.6 million worldwide. But I do feel like, yes, this was a sweet spot of like all these teeny bopper movies that we love so much. Or with our WB cast in movies. But it just, I think it was a little bit darker.

[00:07:38] And maybe it didn't get a lot of promo for it in the same way. Not sure. But at the box office, and number one when this came out was U571. Tell me why I read that as UB40. My brain was like, no, I know that. You're not wrong. I think it was a movie about a submarine. Yes. I don't know who's in it. Samuel L. Jackson?

[00:08:07] You know, I wanted to say, who's the man from Men in Black? Tommy Lee Jones? That's who first came to mind, but I've never seen it, so I have no idea who's in this movie. Hold up, let me pull it up because I think we're both... Wrong. Very wrong. Way off. Who is it? Okay, you did get Independence Day. Oh. Is that what you said? No. I said Men in Black. Oh, damn. Wrong Will Smith movie.

[00:08:37] Matthew McConaughey, Bill Paxton, Harvey Keitel, and John Bon Jovi. We didn't get that one right. Not a single one. Never heard of it. I can't even think of the cover box for it either. It's very like green and murky. Okay. Well, at number two is Love and Basketball, something we're familiar with. Number three is 28 Days. Not to be confused with 28 Days. Later. Later.

[00:09:04] This is the non-rom-com movie that Sandra Bullock started. I remember renting this and being excited because Sandy was on a run with rom-coms, and I was like, what is this movie? She's a drug addict? An alcoholic? This movie made me fall in love with Alan Tudyk because we know famously on this podcast, I never watched Serenity. And Firefly. And Firefly. But you did, but you saw A Knight's Tale. He was in that too.

[00:09:34] That was after 28. That was 2001. Oh, okay. Yeah. When did, wait, when did, but, but Firefly came out much later. Did it? Yeah. Well, anyway. I think so. Cause I, well, Serenity came out, I think in 2005. So maybe. Yeah. You go ahead and do that. We're full of just misinformation today. Way off base today.

[00:09:59] And number four was Rules of Engagement with Joshua Jackson's Other Dawson's Creek co-star, James Van Der Beek. And five, Keeping the Faith. 2002 for Firefly. Okay. Yeah. The film opened at number 12, hence why you didn't hear it in the top five.

[00:10:21] And it had a 59% decline in the box office earnings the following week, descending to number 17 and then following into obscurity after that. Roger Ebert, Lil Raj, gave this movie two out of four stars. He said the film looked like it had something interesting to say about date rape and gossip, but that the filmmakers copped out with the ending.

[00:10:50] And it was like a sneer at the craft of the storytelling. Okay, Lil Raj. How did you want it to end? Like it could have just ended with Pacey in jail. That would have been a different story to tell. I think to me, it leaves it too open-ended that there aren't repercussions for the fact that this man raped this girl. Like, and we'll get into that. Yeah.

[00:11:17] Because then I just realized I'm just cracking it wide open and skipping to the end. But I can, under, like, you know, I don't give that man enough rope. I'll give him enough rope to hang himself most of the time. But I feel like he's not completely wrong. So. But before we get into the cast and crew, let's hear a message from our pod pals.

[00:12:12] What's up? And every episode with, what are you going to make me watch next week? Catch us Fridays wherever you get your podcast. Make me watch. Where we're going? You don't need headphones. I like it. Brittany Murphy and Reese Witherspoon were considered for the role of Naomi Preston, which ultimately went to Kate Hudson. Jennifer Love Hewitt and Maggie Gyllenhaal were considered for the role of Jones.

[00:12:42] Who Lena Headey? Headey Yeah. Headey. Heady, I think. Which, Jennifer Love Hewitt makes sense because the director actually used to, he's a TV director, so he did Party of Five. Kate Hudson almost dropped out of the cast completely to star in Almost Famous. I guess she was able to make her schedule work. Yeah. Because she was able to do both.

[00:13:05] I saw, by the way, if you want to cringe, look at the interviews of the cast. I know there's like a lot of talk about influencers being on the red carpet or having access to celebrities and movies and stuff with interviewing and not being credentialed and whatnot. I just need us to take a step back and realize that it ain't never been right.

[00:13:34] If you go and watch some of the old interviews from the 90s and 2000s, these people were unhinged. Especially the men. The things that they would ask a lot of the, not just the men, because remember we talked about that lady, Bobby, who interviewed Kirsten Dunst and Samantha Mathis about, well, mainly for Kirsten, about Interview with the Vampire.

[00:14:03] And they were like, oh, she was like, oh, did you like kissing Brad Pitt? Like it was super inappropriate and weird for, to ask this child this. Same goes with these interviews with some of the men. They, I think the one I saw was Kate Hudson and Lena being interviewed by this rando guy from Canada. And it's like, he wasn't really listening to what they were saying. Mainly Kate was talking and he interjected a lot and he tried to hit on them.

[00:14:33] It was very unprofessional and cringy. And then when the boys were being interviewed, poor James Marsden. He really had faith in this film. A hundred percent. Yeah. Joshua Jackson looked like he was ready to sleep. Well, he just made two movies back to back and was on Dawson's Creek. Bro was tired. He was. And he was making this movie on the weekends, apparently. So, and I think they were in Canada filming this.

[00:15:03] And he had a cameo in Ocean's 11 around the same time. Yeah. He was booked and busy. He was. Look, when, when, when it's hot, it's hot. You got to take what you can get, you know? So I highly recommend go watch some of those interviews. They'll make you want to pull your hair out. Oh no. Yeah. Well, Kate Hudson originally auditioned for the part of Jones and didn't get it. They later called her back to see if she wanted the role of Naomi.

[00:15:33] I think she was like great in the role of Naomi. Yeah. She did a really good job. Director Davis Guggenheim's parents, Marianne and Charles, were cast as Derek's parents, but their scene was cut. Oh, that's sad. Yeah. This is his wife.

[00:15:56] And the scene where the brunette gets together with Derek at the party, they had her voice dubbed because her voice wasn't deemed sexy enough. So they brought in Elizabeth Shue. It's the most random shit I've ever seen. Yeah. Feature film directorial debut for TV director Davis Guggenheim. And Eric Boghossian was the only person to be tried out. Eric.

[00:16:27] I copied and pasted. That wasn't even me. Eric Boghossian was the only person to try out for the part of Professor Goodwin. And for all of you interview with the vampire fans who watch the show, he is. I don't know. I don't I haven't watched the show, but he plays the Christian Slater part. That's all I know. The guy who's actually doing the interview that that actor plays that on the show.

[00:16:54] And lastly, the original director and eventual executive producer was Joel Schumacher. Oh, OK. Yeah. Funny enough, the university that the students attend in this movie was also the setting of several other films, including Urban Legend and The Skulls, which all coincidentally star our boy Joshua Jackson. Did he just live nearby?

[00:17:20] He's like, give me whatever movie is set at that university. So he is Canadian. So maybe it's close to home. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's get into it. OK, so. The movie opens up and we're we're introduced to Jones played by. I'm going to get her name wrong again. Lena Headey Edy. Sure.

[00:17:50] Cersei Lannister for Game of Thrones people out there. And she lives with two roommates, Derek Webb and Travis. Derek is played by James Marsden. He is bankrolling this whole apartment situation. He comes from he has a trust fund. And so he has all the money. And then Travis played by Norman Reedus is the tortured artist type.

[00:18:19] And he's always just making the art. I'm confused because one of the the fun facts said that it took Norman like a while to make all the art and stuff. It took him weeks for him to arrange his artwork display for the rumor project. And I'm just like, did he actually make it? I mean, it was pretty impressive. It was. So I need that Norman. Yeah.

[00:18:48] Bring us up and let us know. Tell us what's the deep. He is. Yeah. So we see they're all going out to a bar. They're all journalism students. And they're just kind of hanging out. And we kind of just like learn their dynamic. There's this like will they won't be between Derek and Jones. But Derek is also like a playboy. He just sleeps with anyone that walks by. It seems like. Yeah.

[00:19:19] And Jones tries to pretend that. She doesn't want to sleep with him because she knows him so well. But yeah, I think it's because he I don't know if she thinks he's being serious when he flirts with her essentially. Yeah. It's like she doesn't want to be another notch in his belt. She wants to be the one. It feels like. Yeah. A hundred percent. But like also how can you say no to that John line?

[00:19:48] My God. My God. That man is a beautiful specimen. And this movie is very highly stylized. And like it looks like they put like that bright tint filter on on the whole movie. Like all of the colors are just like slightly exaggerated. Yeah. A lot of blues. Yeah. Dark seem darker. But then the like reds and lighter colors really pop and are very vivid.

[00:20:17] So it's I will say like it was a beautiful movie to watch because. Yeah. Especially in this day and age where all we get is drab. Yeah. Yeah. So we get that set up of like kind of who they are what they do. Are we introduced to Naomi yet? Or do we go to school first? No. They're at. Oh damn. Now I'm confused. Okay. No.

[00:20:47] We don't mean Naomi. So they're at the bar and they're joking around and they start. You can already see that they start a rumor about their roommate to try to help him get laid. But also for them to get drinks. And so they make it seem like he is a rock star's son. And eventually people catch on and kick. They kick him out but they have a blast and they go back. This is when we are. We see the apartment that they live in which is absolutely insane.

[00:21:17] It's like an industrial building. Yeah. And then they. So that apartment must be so drafty. There's no insulation anywhere. There's barely walls. It must be just echoey and drafty. And like if someone's in the kitchen like washing dishes. You must hear it through the whole house. Yeah.

[00:21:45] It gives it makes me think it's like in the meatpacking district or Chelsea somewhere where you would have kind of like this studio. I remember the first time when I was little I saw somebody had a staircase in their apartment. I just thought that was crazy because you know it's like I'm in Brooklyn. We don't got that. But that was the vibes of this. And it was a lot of bright colors. It just was so 90s 2000. Yeah. Decor.

[00:22:15] Of course. And everybody has their own funky rooms that like they all have like a peephole thing. It reminded me of the house of three men and a little lady. I think just not the exterior but like the interior some of the stuff. I'm thinking I can't remember if I'm remembering that right. So yeah they get back to the apartment.

[00:22:38] And then the next day you see them wake up trying to hurry up because they all have the same class together and they're going to be late. And that's when they find out that they have an assignment to do. I want to say that this movie does that wonderful thing we talk about where there is diversity but in the background.

[00:23:00] And I was offended because the teacher one of the girls he asked a question and he points to one of the girls to answer. She doesn't really know or she's not very sure of her answer.

[00:23:16] And the way that he comes at her about it was he tells her if she spent less time worrying about her hair and more time focusing on the assignment she would be better off or something like that. And I'm just like.

[00:23:35] And I was also taken aback by that scene because like you said it is the only person of color in the auditorium it seems. In the movie at this room. Not the only person because we have James later. But yeah. But then like. And I'm like her hair is not even overly intricate. No. Like it's just up in a cute little style. Like what are we talking about here?

[00:24:04] She could have done that in 20 minutes. It just. It was so. It took me out of the movie. I can and I could also see myself back then not letting it like fly over my head not being a big deal. But watching it now I'm like wait what did he say? Yeah. And I just question one. Was this already in the script? And then they just hired one to fit this?

[00:24:30] Or did they add it to the to the film script after who they hired? Right. I would love to know. Yeah. But yeah. So they. They have that. The whole class. Is about gossip and how it spreads and it gets out of control and like you can't. It's like a wildfire. You can't contain it once it's broken out type thing. Right. I think it's a communications class. Yeah. And relating that back to journalism.

[00:24:59] So like when you're doing interviews and things like that. Relying on credible sources and ensuring that all of the information you're gathering is fact based rather than gossip. Which is so funny because I feel like the movie and the topic of what you're talking about is still so very or even more so relevant to today. When we have AI.

[00:25:24] When we have fake news sources coming out. Now we're listening to TikToks and using those as sources instead of like tracking back. Or people on TikTok doing breaking news but not sourcing it back to credible news sources themselves. They're just saying breaking news and we don't know like they're not from a credible news station or anything. So we're just like okay but where did you get that intel from?

[00:25:53] A lot of times they're actually taking from real journalists doing the hard news. And I feel I do feel like people need to cite more. Even on the internet. Yeah and I know like even for me and especially with my mom. I'm always like she'll share a tidbit of information that she found out and it's very like upset about. I'm like okay did you validate that? Right your sources.

[00:26:20] Did you look it up and sure they're not putting a spin on it? Are you finding like different sources that are reporting the same thing for credibility? And so it's always like that exercise every time she comes in hot with something that has upset her. I'm like okay let's look at that. Let's look it up. Let's see what's going on. Yeah. Yeah it's funny because when we were in high school and middle school because we're elder millennials.

[00:26:49] We had to look in encyclopedias or we had to go back and know the Dewey Decimal System and look in the library. And like really find sources to go back to. And so now I find myself even having to teach like my mom or even my grandma you know how do we validate what we just listened or read.

[00:27:12] And I do feel like it's a skill that maybe the most eight or ten years younger than us is like the last group that really has that. Not that they can tell but I think they don't have that skill set to like research and go through books and stuff like that anymore.

[00:27:33] And I know when we were in college like the internet was a thing and we were allowed to like use like I think it was like two or three internet sources and then the rest had to be hard copies. But I remember I don't remember which professor it was but there was one that like hammered it in like Wikipedia is not a credible source. You can't use it to cite because anyone can go in and edit it.

[00:27:57] So even when I'm looking stuff up or I'm just like if I'll pull up a Wikipedia page just kind of get an overview. But like that is always playing in the back of my mind like Wikipedia is not a source. So yeah I think we need to have classes for our aging parents to help them because you know I was showing my mom like if you link you click a link and you're trying to find what is the main source for this.

[00:28:24] Usually an article if they're talking about it they have to put the link to where they got it. And we went in a circle once and found out like all of it wasn't actually true or understanding that credible sources are doc you know not just dot com but like dot gov you know finding out if it's a government site if it's fake you know even emails like that she my mom was freaking out. She got an email and I'm like let's look at the email address that sent it to you.

[00:28:52] Is this a variable source viable source. I mean she's like no I'm like okay. Yeah. But it's very scary like all of you guys having to deal with elderly parents or just a little bit boomer light. Good luck. Yeah. It's hard on these streets. And I know because I my majors in film and video but I had to take a lot of like journalism classes or media classes.

[00:29:20] And so in at BCC for our community college now just called Broward College. I took a media studies class and at the time they're like usually because like even for a long time all of the media channels have been owned by a couple of conglomerates. So there was like Turner.

[00:29:49] I can't remember what the other one was. There were only like two or three. So they're like they're always going to tell you or they're always going to control what their outlets are feeding you. Right. And so back then what my teacher said was if you want like a truly unbiased source go to Associated Press because it's international.

[00:30:12] And so it's reporting without the bias of being in the United States a lot of the time and looking in to see what's going on and reporting on that. But now that we're more global in our media. No, I still think I still think that's correct. It's unfortunate. AP is still a very credible source. But it's because information moves faster and is more accessible.

[00:30:40] You still kind of have to do your due diligence and kind of corroborate what is being reported no matter the source that you're accessing. Yeah, it's bad out here for all of us nowadays. Anyways, so after this class, they end up going home and I think this is when they go to the party. They go to another club. And for some reason, Jones is just like standing outside of the club slash bar.

[00:31:08] And she's with the what's the other girl's name because she's like really in this movie more than I thought she was going to be. Oh, Sheila. Yes. Played by Marissa Coughlin. They're both just standing outside. It's just like that awkward scene to me. And the way that we're introduced to Naomi and Bo, who are played by Joshua Jackson and Kate Hudson, feels like they're celebrities, but they're not.

[00:31:34] Almost I think Naomi would be a socialite, I guess you could say. She just transferred from another college. She's very rich. There was already gossip surrounding her. And Kat Jones has an issue with her because she found out supposedly from Sheila that Naomi had been talking trash about her. So she does not like this girl. So they're walking in as like their celebrities and everyone's watching them.

[00:32:04] When we get inside the club, we now see that Derek is also really interestingly looking at Naomi, but also kind of hiding like he doesn't want her to see him. Right. He also is flirting with some other girl and having some situation going on with that. And Travis is just kind of like brooding, I guess, while all this is happening. Travis is being Travis.

[00:32:34] Travis is being Travis. But then like, why would you allow bar patrons access to that?

[00:33:03] It was very confusing. There's like bags and stuff. So it gives the vibe of a house party. I don't know what's going on. Like, I don't know. There was a bunch of stuff on the quote unquote bed. So you see Naomi and Bo making out and getting a little frisky. And the gossip swirling Naomi is like, she's approved. She doesn't put out. Right.

[00:33:28] And so we do see, like you said, Bo and Naomi are now making out on the bed, which is adjacent to the bathroom where Derek and random girl are. Right. And he's trying to help her because she's throwing up. Yes. And so, and you see like Bo try to like slide his hand up her dress. And she's like, no, no, no. And then Derek is like a little peeping Tom at this point because he's watching the whole thing.

[00:33:58] Right. And, but then the girl in the bathroom. Yeah. She makes that noise. Yeah. She makes a noise. She like knocks something over. And so then Bo gets up to investigate. No one's, or she, she's the only one in there at that point. Right. And then we see Bo leave because Naomi passes out on the bed. Right. Right. So she says no.

[00:34:23] And instead of Bo making sure she gets home safely, he just leaves her there and he leaves. And as he's leaving, there's a bunch of dudes like, oh, you scored blah, blah, blah. And he's just joking. It's like a gentleman never tells. And he leaves. And this is when things get creepy with Derek because he walks out and he's just watching Naomi.

[00:34:43] And we don't really know like what he does, but he, he insinuates to his roommates and also the audience that Bo didn't just leave. That maybe he didn't take no for an answer. And so Jones is, is she's, she doesn't say yes right away because she, she looks at the implications of like, this is another woman.

[00:35:13] But then she, even though she doesn't like Naomi, but she does cave eventually to a little rumor. And so they decide that that's what their project is going to be. Mind you, they don't talk to their teacher about, can they do this? And morally, it's just gray area with this. And so Travis is going to make like a art part of it.

[00:35:39] And they're going to see how far this rumor could go essentially. And Travis has one picture of Naomi, the picture behind you. And he uses it. Endlessly. To the death. Where do they get it from? Is it the newspaper? Cause it's. No, it's as they're walking into the club, Travis is standing outside and he snaps one picture of them.

[00:36:09] Yeah. Yeah. And where is this printer? He's getting these super sized, like. I had so many questions about. Maybe Derek bought a Xerox machine. Who knows? So yeah. Throughout a lot of montages, you just see Travis making his art while all this is happening. And they go and spread the rumor. And pretty much, Kat Jones tells Sheila. And then Sheila loops around.

[00:36:39] And by the time she gets back to Jones, who told her the original rumor, it's like a whole thing. And the original rumor, I feel like wasn't. Salacious at all. It was just. I can't remember what it was. Right. Cause it was, it was like very mild. But by the time it gets back. It was essentially like Bo sexually assaulted, passed out Naomi. And things get really crazy from there.

[00:37:06] And the boys are not as upset, which I think is very on par for how. I mean, how men and women deal with this kind of situation or for women, this kind of rumor can ruin your life. Not just the original rumor, not the, where it, where it landed, but like it could really mess up Naomi's life.

[00:37:34] But now towards the end, you could see how it can ruin Bo's life because now Naomi is thinking that he did rape her. Like the rumor is becoming a truth in a sense. So the rumor they spread was that just Naomi and Bo had sex because Naomi is known to be like, she doesn't ever have sex. Right. And then, yeah. By the time it comes back around.

[00:38:00] And then, like you said, like Jones and media is like, we have to, we have to come clean. Like now they're saying that Bo sexually assaulted her. Like this isn't right. She's immediately like, we can't continue perpetuating this. Like we have to do something to stop. And they're like, oh, it's fine. Yeah.

[00:38:21] They don't, their thought process is that this will eventually die down, but it actually doesn't because it gets to Naomi and she gets really nervous and she goes to the police. And they, and we find out later that the reason why she's able to go from zero to 60 about questioning this is because she has dealt with another sexual assault in her past. So she goes to the cops and this is when we meet Sharon Lawrence playing detective Kelly.

[00:38:52] And so they're looking into it and Bo is arrested for any, you know, for questioning and stuff like that. That he's released. And then he now wants to set the record straight with Naomi that he did not rape her. And again, the guys are still kind of just like, it is what it is. And at this point, I feel like Derek is kind of bullying them.

[00:39:15] So Travis kind of quiets up and he gives Kat Jones a hard time about it as well. I'm trying to think if this is when they get it on together. I don't know how you go from talking about sexual assault and being mad that they won't stop the rumor to wanting to sleep with this man. Yeah. It was weird.

[00:39:45] It would have been interesting if they had done that earlier on. And then she's like, oh God, he's a monster. Yeah, but she does this when she already thinks he's kind of weird. Yeah. And then she finds out that Naomi and Derek went to the same high school. Right. She feels bad.

[00:40:09] So she goes to actually talk to Naomi and tell her that like essentially she fessed up that she started the rumor and that Bo didn't do anything. And when she, they start to get to know each other, they, she also finds out that it was actually Sheila that started the rumor that Jones was sleeping with their professor. She was no good. No. Professor Goodwood.

[00:40:36] I remember in my head when I originally saw this movie that it, that part was actually not gossip that that was true. So when I watched it, I was surprised. Felt like that? Yeah. Like there were little like nods to like, well, is this true? Like, especially like at the end when he shows up and stuff. I'm like, I feel like a professor wouldn't just show up. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird.

[00:41:05] So she now realizes that she doesn't dislike this girl. But then as they're talking, she says who her roommates are. And when she says Derek's name, Naomi loses her shit and kicks her out of the room, drops her glass of orange juice and is like, get out. So obviously Jones seeing that response.

[00:41:29] She goes to her roommate, Derek and say, you, you know, Naomi, we started this whole thing and you essentially helped us pick this person. And you know her like, what the hell? And Derek's like, oh, yeah, we went to the same high school. But like, you know, we didn't really know each other and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And she's like, yeah, bet. Right. Go to your high school. So she, she rolls up.

[00:41:57] She does go to the, the local library. I, there are so many movies and maybe like when there were like back in the day in small towns, they would keep a copy of every single yearbook from high school. But like, we're already in 2000, like, is the local library going to have a copy of like every year's yearbook?

[00:42:24] But Jonesy finds one and is like thumbing through it. And at first it's just like pictures of Derek, like independent of Naomi, like they're just sprinkled throughout the yearbook. But then she finds a photo where they're in the background and they're together, like seated really close and looking very intimate. So then Jones is like, let me just go to high school and ask.

[00:42:50] And of course the principal is like, I can't give you information about another student. Like that's not how this works. But she sees like the secretary who I guess is a little gossipy herself is like, oh, Naomi. Oh. And so she catches the secretary coming out of the building and like over cigarettes, they start to kiki about what actually happened.

[00:43:18] And essentially it was that Derek was accused and convicted, I think, of sexually assaulting Naomi in high school. So much so that he's ostracized from his family. He was given his trust fund and was like, don't ever contact us again, essentially. Yeah. So he's got like, even though he did, he was wrong, he's got a lot of animosity towards Naomi.

[00:43:49] And so when Jones finds this out, does she sleep with him after this? That's what I'm trying to figure out is like, does she, I feel like she might go back. And then like, even though she knows. Yeah. He tells her, she doesn't, he doesn't, she doesn't find out about everything. Cause he tells her the truth.

[00:44:17] Like he tells her his truth, which is that they were together for a long time and he didn't rape her. Right. Essentially they had sex and it was consensual, but then Naomi freaked out afterwards and claimed that it was a sexual assault. Right. Right. The state, he, he, what he maintained happened. Right.

[00:44:37] He also gets into an altercation with Bo and like beats up Bo because I think Bo knows about him and Naomi or, or just they, they get into an altercation. So that, that happens. And then we find out that Naomi is dead. Supposedly. Oh, well, and, but Derek had gone to see her to like. Right. Clear things up.

[00:45:06] And he was like roughing her up. And so she like scratched him across the face. Right. And so he goes home. Jones is like, you look like you were attacked. And like around that time, I think Travis comes in or something. Mm hmm. Or they get a phone call and they're like, Hey, Naomi's dead. And Jones is like the fuck Derek, you were the last one with her. And he's like, I didn't kill her. And she's like, well, you have like fucking defense wounds on you. Like. Yes.

[00:45:35] Not looking great. Yeah. So now they're trying to figure out how to get their stories. Right. Right. And so Jones is like saying to Travis, like, Hey. Like we need to be on the same page now. Just write this over here. And. And Travis is still, he has a lot of loyalty to Derek. And I think it's just because like, he's bankrolling all of this. Right. Like nonsense art Derek's doing.

[00:46:00] And so like the whole time, Travis is just, you don't know where Travis is in all of this. It's like whose side he's landing on. And then what happens next? Well, then after that, I think. It starts raining because. I. Feel like Derek is on the roof for some reason. Oh, we have the cops come over to the house because they are wanting.

[00:46:30] They're investigating Naomi's death. Yes. There's a detective that keeps showing up. Edward James almost. Yes. It's the detective that keeps showing up and just like. Hard boiled detective questioning Derek and like making him super uneasy. And so after the, the detective shows up and he's like, you got, you got scratches, like. Highly suspicious.

[00:46:58] And so that's when Derek's like, I have to have an escape plan. And so he starts packing up. He has his passport and he, he knows that the cops are probably watching the front door, which is why he goes up to the roof and out. And he plants the picture in Travis's drawer or something. And Travis is like, yo, you trying to set me up, right?

[00:47:26] Like, and so he has a gun. He has the gun and he's like, you're going to come downstairs. And so Jones comes out to, and they're essentially pressuring him to tell the truth. And so he finally admits that he raped Naomi back in high school. And then all of a sudden everybody starts walking out the rooms. No, it was, he does confess. Oh, right. He gets a gun. But there's a tussle over the gun. Right.

[00:47:55] And Jones ends up getting shot. Yes. And she's like, you got to call someone. And he's like, we can't call the cops. But then they, then everybody starts coming out the, the, like, out of nowhere. My favorite part is that like Edward James almost as the detective. Well, okay. So we, we see, yes, everyone starts coming out of the woodwork and then like Naomi shows

[00:48:22] up and I'm like, bitch, what now? Like Naomi comes out, Bo comes out, the professor comes out, the fake detective we find out is Naomi's dad's driver or something like that. And what I like, he's Derek is like freaking out. Like, what the hell? He's like, I didn't mean, I don't know what he, but. But there's no arrest. That's what I don't understand. Yeah, because there is no. There's no recording like, what is this?

[00:48:51] There is no, there, there are no cops there. There's no consequences. Like, it's not like they recorded it and it's on. Well, no, no, they had. No, they did it. They did a video. Yes. Yes. And it's on this TV screen. It's another art project for Travis. Yeah. Travis has been wiring up this TV, the entire movie. This TV and VCR. One thing after we watched the movie, both of us looked at each other and said, we're really

[00:49:19] glad that they didn't dumb it down for the audience and do kind of like in those mystery TV shows where they show you how they did it. I will say the next day I regretted that. I was like, actually, I would like to know when this started and how they did this. Especially because like some of the, yes, there are use cases where like, I don't need you to tell me. I, I have figured it out. Like, but this one, there were so many moving pieces is like, okay, but when, when did Naomi loop them in?

[00:49:49] Right. When, like, yeah, there were just like so many things. Yeah. Like, okay, how long has the professor known? Right. Why did this college accept someone convicted of sexual assault? That I don't question because to this day, to this day, I mean, like right now in San Francisco,

[00:50:19] three cops raped this woman and they said it's okay. So that part, I don't question for a second, but I do question how they all put this together and like, how did, how the balls started rolling and was also like, obviously, and this should have tipped me off from the beginning. Hindsight is 2020. Right. But Naomi is going to research where this man is.

[00:50:47] She's going to know where he is all the, and like for the rest of her life to completely avoid him. So there's no way in hell you're enrolling in the college that he's enrolled in. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I just feel like. Having access to that amount of money, like you have people you can pay to like keep tabs on this man for the rest of your life. Very true.

[00:51:12] I do think culturally, like especially back then, the protections and even just societal claims of like support are different than it was back then. I could feel the onus going on to her to like sweep it under the rug and not talk about it. I'm actually quite surprised that his parents kicked him to the curb when we've seen so many examples in that elite environment.

[00:51:39] Hell, even when people are poor, they still protect these, these boys and men from repercussions. And the movie ends there. Like we don't see an arrest. We don't see high fives all around because we got him. Like we don't see any of that. It's just like movie ends. I'm thinking the movie probably was hoping that it was going to start a lot of conversations about consent. Mm hmm.

[00:52:10] I just feel like they could have done a little bit more heavy lifting to get us over that threshold to have those conversations. Instead, we were left leaving the theater wondering what was the point of all of that. And. But I do give credit because in the year 2000 to even make a movie like this. True. It touches upon those subjects is really impressive.

[00:52:40] Yeah. And did you say it was a male writer? No, a male and female. So we did have a female point of view writing this movie as well, which you can. I think she wrote Harriet the Spy. Hey. I love that. I just want to bring it back to Harriet's side. I just want to give her a shout out because she does great work. I like it. So like in it. It.

[00:53:08] It shows like I. I was questioning it, but I was. I would have been very surprised if it was just a male writer because these these female characters are fleshed out. They are different personalities from one another. They are not one note. You know, does it pass the Bechdel test? Let me ask. And while you do that, I'm going to read off some. Well, and like that's gossip. That's gossip.

[00:53:38] Here's some fun facts. So apparently James Marsden was disappointed that one of his best scenes in the movie was cut out of the final version of the film. The scene included Derek making a phone call to his parents on the verge of tears, but the director felt it would make the audience too sympathetic towards Derek. The scene is included in the deleted scenes on some versions of the DVD release.

[00:54:02] And the scene with Naomi and Bo in the bedroom was originally much longer and Naomi was much more open to the idea of intimacy, but the scene was later reshot and shortened after test audience. After test audiences felt a woman who had been raped would not be so willingly dominated. Even while under the influence of alcohol. Okay. It does pass the Bechdel test. Oh, good. Multiple named female characters.

[00:54:33] Characters share scenes and dialogue and they talk about non-male topics. Wonderful. I like that. So Lena Headey, James Marsden and Norman Reedus were all in their late 20s when filming this movie. And out of the main cast, only Kate Hudson and Joshua Jackson were in the typical college student age group. So very. Lena Headey, very beautiful.

[00:55:03] But I did not believe for one second she was a college student. I didn't believe she was American. But the whole time I watched her, she just, I, Kara Knightley and her, a lot of the mannerisms and just how they look, look very similar. It was between her and the actress who plays a sister in the show Atypical.

[00:55:34] Well, I want to say them because I think they're non-binary. Jack Haven, who played Cassie on that show. If you look at their, like how they looked on that show and Lena in this movie side by side, I think they look so much alike. Oh, really? It was really bugging me out. Let's see what else. James Marsden performs one of the songs in the film.

[00:56:03] Oh, yeah. When he was on, so the first time I met James Marsden was on this show called Second Noah. He played a teen dad in it. And Amy, Joey Adams, what's her name? You know who I'm talking about? Joey Lauren Adams. Thank you. She played his baby mama on the show. Yes. But I think his character also played, they like played in a band or they played music.

[00:56:31] I could be misremembering, but at that it's like how I remember them, him playing musical instruments and stuff like that. So when the police are searching Naomi's apartment, Edward James Olmos was talking on the phone to his son while laughing for the shot of the interior. Now I want to go back and see. I read that before we started watching it. So I caught it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Why did you tell me? I was probably sleeping.

[00:57:01] Yeah. Yeah. The couch in the loft living area has a painting on the backrest of Derek, Jones and Travis. The mouths on the characters are blurred out deliberately. So the mouths of Jones and Travis, I believe are blurred out because they are the ones that are in on the. Gotcha. All right. So when we were watching this movie, one thing I called out specifically was it clicked to me

[00:57:30] while I'm watching this that Joshua Jackson and Norman Reedus were in this movie together because for 10 long years, Joshua Jackson was in a relationship with Diane Kruger. I thought they were going to get married. I thought they were going to have kids, but 10 years they were together and they broke up after 10 years together and around about like 2016, 2015.

[00:57:55] And then right after there were rumors and blind items about Diane and Norman Reedus, like being at a bar. They said they should, like straddled him and they were making out blah, blah, blah. And I was like, huh, that is very interesting. But then I realized that Diane and Norman met on another movie together called Sky.

[00:58:24] But I don't know if Joshua Jackson was in that movie too. So I need to look that up. But so there's rumors that there was infidelity involving Kruger and Reedus, though Jackson and they say that they split amicably. They're now her and Reedus. I don't know if they're married, but they have kids. Yeah. So like all that time, Joshua Jackson sit or get off the pot kind of situation did not happen.

[00:58:53] But the funniest part about when this story dropped is that I think Joshua Jackson was outside of the country and his dad started talking to the. Oh, no. Yeah. It was like Diane would never do that. They don't like each. That's not what happened. What's happening and blah, blah, blah. So Daddy Jackson was like, nah, I love me some Diane down and she would never. But I'm sure he was devastated afterwards. Yeah.

[00:59:25] And what else do we got? The woman singing at the club in the beginning of the movie is singer Poe, who also provided the song Our Lips Are Sealed for the soundtrack, which she is performing in that scene. Hmm. Okay. And if you look at the photographs of faces and eyes in the bedroom during the seduction of Naomi shows pictures of various extras and crew members.

[00:59:51] The idea is that they are boyers watching Naomi and Bo just as Derek is. And it was Marissa's idea to be in the hallway scene when Derek walks past Naomi's apartment when the police are searching. Hmm. I do want to talk about how infuriating the character of Sheila was. Mm-hmm. She was starting all the rumors, but then all of a sudden became Naomi's best protector and friend.

[01:00:20] But, you know, some people want that validation, you know, like. Yeah. Oh, I'm here. Like, even though I've started all this shit, now that it's happening, like, here, I'll protect you. I'll take care of you, you know? Right. It was very, I wanted to slap her many a time in that movie. All right. Well, before we do our press readings, I do want to remind everybody that if you have any

[01:00:46] thoughts, if you remember this movie, we just woke something up inside of you. If you love Joshua Jackson and you have a favorite movie, hit us up at NoMoreLateFees on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube threads, wherever, and let us know your thoughts. And Jackie, what is your present day rating of gossip? I mean, I didn't hate it. I'm going to go five-day rental. Like, it was enjoyable enough. Like, I stayed awake through the whole thing. Was that shade?

[01:01:15] I know she didn't. The twist at the end got me. So, not terrible. Yeah. I think it'd be a five-day rental. Like, yes, I didn't remember it originally, but it was good. The twist was good. Yeah. Was not mad at it.

[01:01:39] So, if you have anything you want to add to the conversation, hit us up at our quick drop, 909-601-6653. And you can also text us at that number, and you could be featured on a future episode. And don't miss next week as Joshua Jackson mayhem comes to an end. As we cover the Wes Craven movie, Curse. Roar.

[01:02:08] And, as always, be kind and re-wind. What? Rewind, bitch!