Fear (1996): Mark Wahlberg & Reese Witherspoon

[00:00:00] In 1996, Reese Witherspoon and Mark Wahlberg took us down a young love turned psychological thriller with fear. Join us now as we cover the red flags of this first love. Welcome to the No More Late Fees podcast. I'm Jackie.

[00:00:27] And I'm Danielle, and we're just two best friends and ex-blockbuster employees rewatching some of the best and worst movies of the late 90s and early 2000s. This week we're covering the 1996 thriller, Fear. But before we dive in, let's get into some… Ooh, you went spooky. I know. If you love the podcast and you want to support us, here's how you can.

[00:00:55] Are you ready to dive into exclusive cinematic experiences, Bestie? Gain access to movie-themed content, stickers, live events, and our handpicked Spotify playlist by joining our Patreon community at patreon.com slash nomorlatefees. Become our movie-loving bestie today. Well, we needed another true 90s nostalgia expert for this one.

[00:01:18] So, Naomi Carmack, creator and host of the Dope Nostalgia podcast, is joining us for her very first No More Late Fees visit. We're very excited. First of many, we're sure. Yay! What's up, ladies? Hello. Welcome. You guys are so welcome. So, both Danielle and I have been guests on Dope Nostalgia, where Naomi brings listeners closer to the music and artists of the decade we cover.

[00:01:42] So, if you want to get to know her better, check out this week's bonus episode, and we will put links to her podcast in our show notes as well. Yeah, and the episodes we were on, Jackie was on the Hanson episode. Yep. And then Jackie and I both were on the movie together, if you guys remember. We did that band, and we just did Hoku, but that's fun. That's going to be good. You also did the candy and snacks episode with my friend Nicole and I. I did.

[00:02:09] That was so much fun because I learned about a lot of Canadian snacks and candies, which I was very excited about. So, yes, definitely check it out. We'll put those links in the notes. Ready to hear about fear? Yeah, tell us what this movie is about, Danielle. Well, when 16-year-old Nicole Walker falls for handsome and seemingly sensitive David McCall, their intense romance quickly turns possessive and violent.

[00:02:32] After Nicole ends the relationship, David targets her family and their secluded home, forcing them to confront just how dangerous he really is. The movie stars Mark Wahlberg, Reese Witherspoon, William Peterson, Amy Brenneman, Alyssa Milano, Christopher Gray, Tracy Frame, and Gary Reilly. The movie was written by Christopher Crowe and directed by James Foley. You can currently watch it on Prime for Rent.

[00:02:59] I think also on Google, YouTube, and Apple. But before we start, let's get into our ratings rewind. So, you know the drill. Before we get into the movie, we'll reveal the rating our Y2K versions of ourselves would give. Then at the end, we'll see if we agree with our initial ratings. Our scale consists of would buy it, would buy it again. The best would play on repeat. Five day rental. Would watch again.

[00:03:29] Two day rental. Nothing to write home about. And same day rental. Well, get daddy's car. Cause it's trash after David took his hammer to it. It's garbage. It's not worth a penny. It's horrible. That poor car. I don't even know what it was. What kind of car it was. A red car. Looks like a Mustang, but I will look it up. Alright, Naomi.

[00:03:56] What was your Y2K rating when you saw this movie? Y2K back then. What I thought of it? Mm-hmm. Oh. Well, because like, obviously I'm a big Wahlberg fan. I was a big fan of Marky Mark the rapper. So seeing him just start to become an actor, I was very supportive of it. Although like, obviously his character freaked me out completely. Five at the time. Yes. Yes. And what about you, Jackie?

[00:04:25] I own this sucker on VHS. And guess what? We're not remembering a lot about it. A bitch owned it. Yeah. Well, guess what? We're two dumb bitches. Cause I owned it as well. Just something about it. It was like. Well, I'm. It was Mark Wahlberg. Yeah. It was a thriller. It was, you know, we were, when this came out, we were about that age.

[00:04:55] We were about 16. So this was like, wow. Yeah. This is wild. Yeah. So you had like, at least like two, two new stars there who were actors who were really young. It was, yeah, this was just starting out herself. But I forgot Alyssa Milano was even in this movie and she was already a huge star. Yeah. She would have been the top star in the billing, to be honest. Yeah. I'm. I don't know. Reese did a lot of movies before she did this movie, but I just don't.

[00:05:25] She was 19 when this came out and she had done a few already, but I. Cruel intentions. It was after this. Yeah. So I think this was like the crossover for her. Like this was more a wide audience that people got to know. Yeah. For sure. This was the first I'd heard of her. Oh, okay. Okay. Well, the movie came out April 12th, 1996. It had a budget of $6.5 million and it grows $20.8 million. Once it was done.

[00:05:52] I think it made more after it came out on VHS for sure. And in the box office at number one was Primal Fear, which came out the, the week before. And I feel like that could have been confusing. Yes. Cape Fear. What about Cape Fear? I swear that almost confused me. I think Cape Fear came out in 94, 92. Cause I know it's, I don't think it's in our timeframe. Okay. Primal Fear at number one, James and the Giant Peach.

[00:06:22] PTSD. Number three was the bird cage and fear was at number four and number five, a thin line between love and hate. So here comes Brandy. Poor thing. I, yeah, like that is interesting. How many people went and accidentally saw the wrong movie? Thinking like, or they purchased. It's that fear movie. Yeah. Like whatever that fear is like, I didn't realize Richard Gere was in this.

[00:06:49] But you know, I feel like you couldn't have missed cause I believe Primal Fear is pretty good. If I remember. So yeah. You're just getting two different types of thrillers. Okay. So for the reviews, Gene Siskel gave the film a thumbs down while Roger Ebert gave it a thumbs up. Siskel called the picture predictable trash with an inspired title. Quote unquote. Quote unquote. So.

[00:07:17] And with the third act, which nose dives into pure mayhem. It's shocking that such a film was made by the same director who gave us at close range. Glenn Gary, Glenn, Gary, Glenn Ross. Say that three times fast. And after dark. Oh, and after dark. My, I don't know what my sweet. After dark. My sweet. Oh, is that what? I've never heard that movie in my life. Learned so much.

[00:07:48] Sorry. This one is not worthy of his talent. It should have been titled. Who's that boy? Ebert. Coming in with the jokes. The zingers. Ebert claimed the movie generates genuine psychological interest with an effective and suspenseful, suspenseful portrait of a family under siege. You know, Siskel was hot under the collar watching the same movie.

[00:08:19] I had more questions than answers at the end of this movie. But then I read about the backstory that was supposed to be included. Mm hmm. And it was supposed to be that Mark Wahlberg's mom was raped. Oh. And got pregnant with him. Uh huh. And then her, her family disowned her. And that's how he became like, and I don't know if she killed herself or whatever, but that's how he entered the foster system.

[00:08:49] And it turns out Nicole's dad was the one that raped the mom. And so to get back at him, he was doing this to his half sister. Where did all this come from? Yeah, Jackie. I did not see this in the I. I saw it when I was researching and I was like, oh, that feels like a way better movie. That sounds gross. Well, yes, I agree. But like, and at least we know why David's crazy.

[00:09:17] You're grooming your sister? Yep. But you know what? I actually prefer that we didn't get this backstory. You know, cause I think when we look at this movie, we focus so much on how like crazy David is. But I think the bigger story is for young girls, what it's like to be in that, in a first relationship and how easy it is to fall into domestic violence.

[00:09:43] I think so many of us watch these kinds of movies and TV shows and the kind of laugh at it and say that will never be me. But it was just, there's just so many ways that especially when there's different power dynamics. Because he was older, that you could easily be thrown into this situation and miss a lot of the signs, especially when, you know, you grew up in a family where you're, you know, you might be mad at your dad, but you didn't grow up in violence.

[00:10:12] You don't see these signs. You don't know what to watch out for. So I think now with my new lens of being older, that's what I took from it versus when I remember when I was younger, I was like, this guy's crazy and girl wake up. What are you doing? And now I'm like, I have way more empathy for her now that I've dated because clearly groomed her, you know? Yeah. If I were her age, I would have thought he was just the perfect boyfriend. He's so nice.

[00:10:41] He treats me so good. And the first time he visits the family, he's just gets everyone to fall in love with him. Yeah. I think the dad was already had suspicions because he's a dad. Yeah. That this could all be like a bullshit act. But like on the very first visit. But yeah, like if I were her at 16, I would be like, oh, he's so perfect and dreamy and all of this. He's so protective of me. Right. Well, before we really dive in, let's hear a message from our pod pals.

[00:11:15] The 1990s, my very favorite decade, especially for music. This is Dope Nostalgia and I'm your host, Naomi Carmack. And every week we revisit the era that brought us hammer pants, Crystal Pepsi, Pogs, Hypercolor, Pokemon, and some of the greatest songs of all time. On Dope Nostalgia, not only do I have episodes where I talk about the big artists of the 90s with friends, but sometimes those big artists come on the show.

[00:11:42] Past guests include Naughty by Nature, George Lamont, Alana Miles, Color Me Bad, Biff Naked, Right Said Fred, and so many more. Dope Nostalgia, a podcast made for 90s kids like me. You can find us on Spotify, Apple Music, Podbean, Stitcher, and wherever podcasts are served. Okay, so cast and crew.

[00:12:06] Producer Brian Grazer conceived the idea during a ski trip with his daughter, and the project was developed under the working title No Fear with Christopher Crow hired to write it in 1993. Is Brian Grazer the one we met? We sure did. Okay. Oh, wow. So we met him in New York on the set of Spike Lee's movie with Denzel Washington and Jodie Foster. Uh-huh. Inside Man. There you go. You got it. I remember.

[00:12:37] Oh, that's huge. And I freaked out because I recognized Brian Grazer, and Jackie's like, how do you... And he was like, how do you know me? I'm in the... Well, because... I can picture his face in my head. Yeah. It's before, like, social media and everything. Like, you were doing deep dives if you knew, like, what the producers looked like. I just knew he was on a lot of Ron Howard movies, and he also produced Felicity. We know how I feel about my girl, Carrie Russell.

[00:13:07] True. Yep. Anywho, love his stuff, but I side-eye, what do you mean? Why on the ski trip with your daughter did you think of this plot, of you doing Fatal Attraction? But for younger. I wonder if it's like, little boys were hitting on her or something. Maybe. And so she's... And he just, like, conjured up, like, what's the worst possible thing that could happen if my daughter was dating a guy?

[00:13:33] I would be like, Dad, do not manifest this kind of shit for my life. What are you talking about? Fairly. Fairly. Fairly. Fairly.

[00:14:08] Fairly. Fairly rare a movie I see with him that I'm like, he shouldn't have played this. True. But he didn't feel like he was right. So after working with Mark Wahlberg on the Basketball Diaries, he actually recommended him to the director. So thanks to Leo for this set cut of role. Oh, wow. And fear became Mark Wahlberg's first leading film role. He's...

[00:14:35] His performance helped move him beyond the Marky Mark image and established that he could play threatening, dramatic material. My first note of this viewing was, this is just a documentary on Mark Wahlberg's life. There's no acting happening. Okay. Facts. Oh, wow. Because, like... Well, because, like, Hearly, like, racially profiled and beat up an Asian man when he

[00:15:05] was, like, 15. And threw bottles and stuff at black children. Like, he's... Yeah. I did read about that. Yeah. Yeah. And he's constantly trying to get that sponged from his, you know, the internet and whatnot. And, sir, it would be one thing, like... What I hate is that, for a lot of white people, that racism is something that just happens in youth.

[00:15:34] And I'm just like, why? Why is that? Except, like, people will say, oh, he was young. I'm sorry. That, like, it's still racism. And at the point of other people were hurt, not just mentally, but physically. Right. A community was hurt. Yeah. So it's just like, okay, yes, you were young. You've learned from it.

[00:15:55] But I would appreciate it more if he really spoke about it, accepted how people feel about it and did his darndest to work towards doing right by those communities that he affected. Mm-hmm. Because let's not forget that for a long time, I think a lot of people didn't know that he did that, didn't know that history. But, like, he's been in a lot of movies where it's, like, black adjacent.

[00:16:24] Some of his swag has some aspects of blackness to it. Yeah. And so he's also profited on it. And now he's in another movie where he is playing this mob boss guy. It just came out, like, last weekend. And it's supposed to be about a civil rights activist who was murdered and it's supposed to be solving their case.

[00:16:49] They added a fictional black man to the story and they're hyping up the character that Mark plays is this mob boss guy that was also racist and weird. So I just, I'm like, read the room, Mark. If you don't, if you want this to be better, do better. Yeah. And that's why I don't date a Patriots fan. Never. I love that.

[00:17:16] And I appreciate everything you just said and I respect that. I see he could, he could have definitely, currently, and all throughout be handling what happened better instead of trying to pretend it didn't happen. Right. Right. Or, or blame it on his youth and he didn't know better. Like, like, acknowledge it and deal with the, the hurt that was caused. Right. Yeah. I totally get that. See, and the thing is I grew up with him.

[00:17:45] I had no idea. Yeah. I had no idea for one thing. Like everybody in the funky bunch was black. Right. So I was like, Oh, he's a friend of the community. This is great. This is the way I saw it as a child. So I don't know. I didn't learn about all that until much later. Yeah. I just, and if he has come out and said anything, I just still don't think it's like big enough. And I feel like he could be doing more. I'm sorry.

[00:18:13] I'm, I'm, I would like to ask him to do more because. Don't apologize. It's not okay. Yeah. Don't apologize. Yeah. I support you in saying that. Yeah. Yeah. But like the accent and like the, the anger and going zero to 60. It's just because I know his history and stuff. I was just like, Oh, this is just like what he was like as a teen. Probably like hotheaded things.

[00:18:42] Everything is like his or owed to him. Like, so yeah, I was like, I don't think he stepped far out of his acting sphere with this initial role, which probably served him well. Yeah. I mean, he's good in it. I believed him. But Liv Tyler turned down the role of Nicole Walker that ultimately went to Reese Witherspoon.

[00:19:12] So Mark Wahlberg and Reese Witherspoon's characters in fear were 23 and 16 resulting in an uncomfortable age gap. And in real life, Wahlberg is five years older than Reese. She was around 19 when shooting this movie. I also read that she Reese had said that the rollercoaster scene wasn't as wasn't supposed to be as explicit as it is in the, and in the film.

[00:19:40] And when the director wanted to shoot more of that footage, she requested a body double and she was denied. Oh, really? Yeah. I didn't know she was denied. I thought she got the body double. No, she said it just made her really uncomfortable because she asked for a body double and, and they didn't And, and they threw it at her onset cause it wasn't in the script.

[00:20:10] That's also like ridiculous. Yeah. And she said. Respectful to women. Cause like, honestly, like they, you wouldn't have even known it was her. Right. Right.

[00:20:20] And she said that this is one of the, like, this was a big reason why she wanted to be a producer because, and like her understanding of how she needed to be really careful about what role she picked and how she was on set because she saw how easily young women, young actresses could be treated on set with those kinds of situations.

[00:20:43] So she wasn't, yes, she was legally an adult, but still that's not right. Yeah. Mm hmm. And she also said that she believes it was the director's idea to do that by the way. So. That's like relying trying to create porn. Like it's not fair at all. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't even know if they would have put that in her contract when she signed it. Right. Probably not.

[00:21:11] I did want to clarify talking about what I, about Mark Wahlberg in this new movie. The movie is called by any means. And it's supposed to be about Dennis Dahmer, Sr. and Ellie Dahmer. Well, sorry.

[00:21:27] Dennis Dahmer, Sr. and Ellie Dahmer are the son and the widow of Vernon Dahmer, Sr., who the movie essentially is about because he was a black voting rights activist who was killed by the KKK. And the movie is riddled with like historical inaccuracies.

[00:21:47] And because you have this character played by Mark Wahlberg, the mobster guy, and supposedly a fictional character played by an Yaya, I think he plays a fictional character and they're supposed to be like finding out who killed this man. And so here's a real black activist. They could have made a movie just even about him and helping us get our rights to vote.

[00:22:14] And instead they made this like revenge porn kind of thing going on, but it's not a lot of factual things. And so the family itself is upset. So they didn't even go to the family to talk about that. Like imagine your dad died in that way and what we're going through in this country. And then you make you have no say about this movie. Like people are really heartless, truly.

[00:22:41] So I don't say that Mark is to blame 100%, but I do think that the Internet exists. You could Google stuff beforehand. Yeah. Because like you're going to get into your character shouldn't you know as much as you can. And again, going back to let me not overshadow this community. I've already hurt a few times. Right. So I just don't think enough people know about that, about that movie. Mm hmm.

[00:23:10] Okay, let's dive into the darkness. Oh, and lastly, like you said, Alyssa Milano is in this movie at this point. There's a lot of movies that she does in this timeframe where you see that she's trying to shed her child star image. I think we see that a lot with a lot of child stars trying to transition. They do a lot of sexier roles. Yeah. She did this movie. She did Poison Ivy 2. Yeah.

[00:23:35] She did another movie where she's like, well, naked or topless in that one where it's like a vampire movie. I forgot what it's called. Yeah. And then I just recently recorded an episode about her music career in the nineties. Oh. That was exclusively in Japan. So in doing my research, I found all these other movies she'd made trying to get rid of her Samantha Maselli. Yeah. And I was like, whoa, I didn't know she did any of that. I'm learning all this stuff.

[00:24:06] The Amy Badafugo TV movie, because there was one with Barrymore. There was one with her. Amy Fisher. Yeah. Joey Badafugo. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Who did I say? I combined them. My bad. My bad. But yeah. I knew what you meant. Yeah. All right. We're in Seattle. Let's get it started. Yes. So we meet Nicole Walker.

[00:24:29] She's a 16 year old living outside of Seattle with her dad, her stepmom, Laura and her younger stepbrother Toby. So we kind of get a glimpse of the of this back, her backstory. She's she lived with her mom and she just moved in with her dad about a year and a half ago. So so they're all trying to kind of figure out this new life together. She and her stepmom still have some friction. It doesn't help that early on in the movie, her stepmom.

[00:24:58] She doesn't call her a slut, but her makeup essentially makes her look slutty. I I she really stood on that. I was with her with telling the dad that, like, you need to set rules. You need to have boundaries. I come Jackie, you relate when you have fathers. That don't always do what they're supposed to do. There's a lot of guilt and the guilt comes in different ways.

[00:25:26] Buying stuff, being lax on things, whatever. And I feel like that's introduced to us pretty early on that the dad doesn't he probably doesn't even know how to parent, especially a teen teenage girl. So there's one scene where he's literally looking at his daughter at the refrigerator and he has this look in his face.

[00:25:50] It's like he realized that his child has boobs or something like he it's honestly when I look at him like weird situation. But I guess a lot of the themes of this movie are from the father's perspective of this like virginal daughter idea. Yeah. Yeah. She's not a little girl anymore.

[00:26:12] Like right in one of the first scenes like you were saying, like she she's wearing this little baby doll silk slip dress very 90s. And he's like, we need to take you shopping like we need to get you new clothes. She's like, this is a brand new dress. And he's just like, the fuck? I'm sorry. What? And like her step mom does stand up for her in that respect.

[00:26:38] And she's like, yeah, we took I took her shopping and we bought these clothes and there's nothing wrong with it. So, yeah, we're just trying to see where everyone can kind of fit in. And that's even displayed with the younger brother, because at one point he calls Steve, I think is the dad's name. He calls Steve dad and he was like, pretty much like I'll give that kid whatever he wants. He just called me dad. Like, right. We're making progress here. Yeah, I think.

[00:27:06] So then we are also introduced to Nicole's best friend Margo and their friend Gary. And Gary is just kind of like the guy that they hang out with. He's super chill and just really good friends with Margo and Nicole. Margo is more rebellious and kind of convinces Nicole to like skip school and goes to like this dive bar and. Trying to skip.

[00:27:33] She's she's put as like a bad influence. Yeah. Yeah. Reese's character represents the virginal good girl, blonde hair. And then you have the bad girl brunette and very over sexualized friend. And to the point that when she gets victimized.

[00:27:56] Even I think when I was younger looking at that, I don't know if I was like, well, look at all the short dresses you were. You were asking for it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because which is unfortunate when we were conditioned to do in the. Well, this is something because you're reviewing so many older movies, you probably run into all the time of the things that would not be acceptable today. Absolutely. Absolutely acceptable then. And like the way she dressed her stepmom calling her a slut.

[00:28:25] Like you look like a slut. You look like a slut. Right. Yeah. Nowadays people will be like. Oh, yeah. So I get I get where you're coming from there. Yeah. The whole she was asking for it by what she wore thing. That's just. Yeah. And that because she she's.

[00:28:43] Like showing promiscue promiscuity from the outside externally, we automatically are categorizing, you know, that she's bad, even like, even like her clothes, if you notice her clothes are darker. She's wearing like a thong when we are exposed to her underwear versus. I got it. The girls don't wear thongs.

[00:29:07] Versus Nicole, when in her scene, when she's first losing her virginity, she is in all white her and her underwear David takes and has it in his house and that her father finds. Yeah. So a lot of the themes of this movie isn't like the way that he's seen viewing his daughter is growing up or becoming older has a lot tied to her sexual.

[00:29:32] Experience or her losing her virginity, which maybe when I saw it when I was younger, it didn't make me feel weird. But now I'm like, this is such an odd. And it feels gross now. It does. And especially knowing what we know about Hollywood and all the things. Mm hmm. It just feels very weird. Well, and like, yes, Marco is more outwardly sexual.

[00:30:00] But I mean, Nicole was the one that initiated the roller coaster roller coaster. Like, like it wasn't he had his hand on her leg, but she was like, oh, let's do this. You know, like, so it wasn't like Nicole was being coached. Yeah. By by David at that point. She was making that decision. I would say that he had started. He groomed her from the beginning. Well, yeah, right.

[00:30:29] Because them getting to the roller coaster and her taking that leap. This is after like they're going around whatever she's seeing her best friend like make out David from the game. The moment the first time they kiss. Mind you, they these people do not even know each other. He makes out with her and he touches her boob. He's already testing boundaries. Right.

[00:30:53] And he's constantly pushing them little by little so that by the time we get to the roller coaster, it feels like it's Nicole's idea. Okay. Nicole prior to David would have never done something like that. So that's how that like that's why I'm watching this movie with a totally different lens and seeing how nefarious David is in his actions. It's hard for a girl that age to stand by her.

[00:31:22] By her belief system when she's dealing with someone so much older. I remember dating a guy myself when I was 17 who is like 22 and thinking that I have to please this guy or he's going to leave me. Right. I'm too young for this. Right. But I mean, I stuck to my guns and I did not have sex with that guy because I said I'm waiting till marriage. That is what they said. Yeah, that didn't happen. But I never got with him anyway. Yeah.

[00:31:48] But it's really hard to do because you're trying to please them because you want them to think, oh, I'm so mature for my age. Right. You know, so yeah, that's probably why she went for it. And we don't know our worth when we're that age. Right. Like, we don't know that our worth is not tied to having sex with someone. Yeah. You know, I think even some grown ass women still don't know that. But true. That's what we've been taught.

[00:32:16] So, yeah, if you came to listen to this episode because you love this movie and you're like these goddamn women and their bullshit. We just keep it real. You might want to exit because it's not getting any better. Nope. So they skip school. They go to like this dive bar and that's where Nicole first spots David while she's out with her friends. He's playing pool, making eyes at her.

[00:32:44] Margo's attracted to the grossest, greasiest man in the entire dive bar. I did not get that. No, I get so mad in these movies where you have these super hot women and these casting directors get the dirtiest, grungiest looking guys. Like, this is unbelievable. Like, how are you passing on Jeremy? Geez. Right. So nasty.

[00:33:10] What is that wrestler with Mick Foley is what he reminded me of? Not Mick Foley catching strays on a random day. I think they purposely made him kind of sleazy looking because like, I bet if they cleaned the guy up, he could have looked okay. But we didn't know because he looked so gross. You could get a sleazy look like you know who does sleazy but is still hot is Timothy Olyphant. Yeah. Okay. I feel like he could have done that perfectly.

[00:33:39] Him and his twin, Josh Damal. Josh Damal at that time could never play sleazy. I, I, because he was a soap opera boy at that point. Yeah. So he couldn't, but some Timothy can do it too. Yes. Or like even a Norman Reedus where there's just like something about him. Yes. Or Ski Ulrich. Yeah. A little. The bang. The bang.

[00:34:07] You are going over all my hotties here. Sorry to that man that played Margo's love interest in Fear. I'm sure you're a lovely person in real life. Sorry. Poor dude. So they're then invited to some like band performance. Does Nicole have to sneak out for this? So they've already snuck out and they're skipping school, but to go to this thing by the docks. Yes.

[00:34:35] But she says she's going to think of Johnny. What's that man's name? Oh, James Taylor. Yes. Yeah. And I'm like, who the hell want to at that age going to know James Taylor concert, but she's supposed to go with her parents. So she can't get away. I was like, what a boring night that was. Right. Sorry. But she, but she, she goes with it though. Yeah.

[00:35:02] She's like the, and she's like my first James Taylor concert was when I was six. So I was like, Oh, you just got fans as parents. Like there's just no way that you're not going when James Taylor's in town. Now, like then I was like, what? But now I'm like, yeah, I go to a James Taylor. Okay. Everyone will probably be sitting the whole time. We'll just be grooving with our snacks and enjoy. My niece was 10.

[00:35:31] We took her to her first concert. It was Brian Adams and Brian Adams isn't known for a flashy stage show. She was bored out of her mind. She doesn't tell people like, she, she doesn't like talking about that concert. Metallica was her first concert. So, but yeah, that's like, Oh, James Taylor. Yeah. Mine was MC hammer. Now that's the coolest concert. Oh my God. I'm so jealous. That's the best concert. I'm proud of going to that concert.

[00:35:59] So she goes to this concert. Margo's making out with Mick Foley. And then he starts a fight in the middle of like. This band set. And so David whisks Nicole to safety and like coaches her down the fire escape and they go and sit on the docks. I would have been like day. No way. I would have got caught by Popo. First of all, the lights already on me. Yeah. What are we doing? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:29] How did they even get away when they're like, I don't know. That whole thing was weird. And then I didn't even feel like when they were sitting on the dock, I didn't even feel like they were actually connecting. It felt so odd. Yeah. You're with the stranger. Okay. So it is hard to be empathetic to Margo. Because what do you. At first I was mad when they got separated. I was mad at Nicole because the first thing I would have been like, no, I gotta go. I gotta go find Margo.

[00:36:59] Yeah. I gotta get Jackie. First of all, Jackie would have never been in the situation. They would have. Marco like wave at her and be like, I'll see you later. Yes. After. Because he screams to his boy. So by they go to the roof and then Margo and his boy come to the roof. And then Margo is being whisked off somewhere else. I'm like, are they jumping off of the. Never go to a second location. Margo. Right. She went with. She went with them. She's like, I'll see you tomorrow.

[00:37:27] And I was like, she broke girl code. Yeah. I think Nicole broke it first, but I understand when you have a suburban girl in a very. Not suburban situation. And she freaked out and went with the man who was. He literally was bodyguarding her. Like I wouldn't be mad at it, but. Yeah. Margo really fucked up and left Nicole knowing that Nicole doesn't have the same. Maybe I can't even say Margo has street smarts. I just say Margo has.

[00:37:56] Loose parents who are not paying attention. Margo is selfish. Yes. Yes. Well, she's male centered for sure. Mm hmm. And. The approval of men was more important to her than her friendship. A hundred percent. And. When he. So instead of just taking her home or to the bus station or something, because we're supposed to believe this is a little bit outside. Outskirts of where they are supposed to be. Mm hmm.

[00:38:23] And I love that David's go to thing is to turn the clock. Every time. Several times. You're not late. The clock broke. Yeah. And the reason that she is able to leave is because the dad we're supposed to learn that the dad is this workaholic or whatever. And he does call it out. And so I feel like. So many parents, so many men from this time period and maybe even still now say, well,

[00:38:53] you wouldn't have the lifestyle that you're accustomed to if I didn't work all the damn time. Next thing you know, they got like a whole ass side family. Right. So like. That's a trope that's used a lot because it actually happens a lot. But I mean. Yeah. Well, and then like, okay, yeah, but you you created this like safe house that was not safe. So you're not really that great of an architect dad. Not a good job.

[00:39:20] Well, I half blame the fact that Nicole given out passcodes to people. And it was hard coded. It wasn't something like you could change or a one time code. Yeah. I think we're also looking from 2026. Because I think state of the art. Yeah. Back then that was like, oh, I was like, what do you mean you have a code open your door? Wait, anyone will get in here. Right. Anything. I see a video of him outside.

[00:39:50] Think about that. That was a ring camera. Yeah. In 1996. They had CCTV in their house. So let's let's get our foot off of Steve's neck because maybe he wasn't that bad at his job. He just needed to make steel doors and instead of balsa wood doors. I feel like. Well, yes. So because he had to go on a business trip, that's why Nicole's able to go out. But I do think it's very interesting that Laura.

[00:40:21] Laura peeps a lot of things. She know Marco ain't no damn good. Yeah. And Nicole's ass shouldn't have been been able to go out for that long. But he did sweet talk her as well. She didn't meet David yet. Oh, OK. That first night. That's true. She just thought Nicole was going out with Margo. So. Laura handled that horribly too. And there's times where I'm on her side and there's times where I'm like, you ain't no better than Steve. Y'all are the blind leading the blind.

[00:40:51] And something that little boy gonna need therapy. That's all I got to say. Ain't nobody checking on him. Oh, I had that same thought. So now the family's meeting David. They're officially an item. And so David charms Laura, but Steve's like, I was your age once. It's not even that. The dude is creepy. He is.

[00:41:16] So I think like, I think Nicole interprets like David's intensity with like passion or like he's really into me where he's just really controlling and crazy. Like. That whole like, you know, Nicole, I like you a lot. Like what's with the whisper? Speak up, son. I can't hear you. Declare from the rooftops in front of everyone. Like my, my hearing is a little not great, sir.

[00:41:46] What's with the whisper? I feel like that's how he played the role. I'm me to be sweet and nice. Like a good guy. I got to whisper like this. I got to be like this, you know, Nicole, like just the way he was taught. I can't even replicate it. Yeah. Well, with his Boston accent. So now David's kind of not kind of David is love bombing Nicole. Like with her all the time.

[00:42:15] Doesn't want to let her out of his sight. He pulls up to the school at one point and Nicole's talking to Gary and he just swings first, ask questions later. Well, well, when did they go to the, I thought they went to the thing first. What thing? The carnival first. Oh, you're probably right. So they first he comes over to the house.

[00:42:43] The dad is feeling the kind of way because he thinks the guy is creepy, but he's also his wife is like totally down with it. Cause when he comes over, Nicole has been grounded for that whole shenanigans and not really grounded. She has to do chores and he comes and helps her with that. And he really swoops in and he's got the dog liking him, the little brother liking him, the stepmom liking him. And then after that, Margo comes over as well.

[00:43:13] And there is a scene in the dad's study or his office where Margo comes in, she's wearing cooter cutters. You could damn near see the lips on the side of her at this point when she bends over. It's insane in front of your dad, your friend's daddy, which she, you know, she was trying to go. Yeah. And he was not looking away. No. And I was disturbed.

[00:43:37] And then what's even worse is that, oh boy, is watching this and he looks at the dad like, I know what you're about. Yeah. I know you want that. And it's just such, such tension. But there are things that the dad hears. He's like, Nicole, go get me a Coke or something like that. And she, the dad's like, said what? Yeah. Can you hurry up and get dressed? Let's go.

[00:44:01] Like, there's so many different notes that the dad picks up that is like, these are warnings like. And I'll tell you right now. None of this situation would have happened with my mom. Danielle. In no way. Or even my dad. I snuck into your house because your mom did not approve. That's true. That is very true.

[00:44:27] But what I mean is there's no way that I would have had the guy in my house and my mom. Yeah. Like I was, I, to me, you sneaking over if mom came, I don't think she would have cared. And I think a lot of times she didn't know you were there. It's let, let's be real. Yeah. But there's no way I'm bringing a 23 year old home into the house. How does a dog like him? Dogs know people.

[00:44:56] That was my thought too. I'm like, and it's a German shepherd. Like they're supposed to be. A police dog. Yes. That dog was a punk. They didn't train him to do. I think you have to. I think he was grown up in a sweet little home. And I was about to shut the movie off. Right. Yeah. We'll get there. Okay. So yeah, like David is essentially love bombing. Everyone has everyone fooled except for dad.

[00:45:25] And, but at the same time, like, because he was doing his little clock magic, the dad had like a really important deadline that he missed. And so then he's like, now I have to go back on my business trip. And so at one point he does invite his wife along because she's like, you're, you're just always up and leaving. And he leaves the kids at home, but that's after the rollercoaster scene. Right. Yeah.

[00:45:53] After this, so when they leave, they go to the carnival and that is where we see him. He went, not a stuffed animal. He wins her. What is that thing? A piece pipe. A piece pipe. So not even a politically correct prize from the, the carnival. Well, it was the nineties and I do believe that Seattle area very heavily populated with Native American. Yes. I feel so.

[00:46:23] I'm guessing that's where the piece pipe situation came from, but. Hopefully. Still like, I would have wanted a teddy bear. Sorry. Yeah. And then we get the wild horses song and the rollercoaster. Rollercoaster fingering scene. Yeah. And again, I keep thinking in my head, it was the. Ferris wheel, but. Well, I watching that scene. I'm like, Danielle's probably just thinking his hands aren't clean.

[00:46:53] You already know. First of all, you're not diddling me on a rollercoaster where anything can happen. Yeah. Next thing I know is a episode of Grey's Anatomy and your fingers stuck in my woohoo on the damn rollercoaster. The G forces just. Yes. No, no, thank you. These horses, you know.

[00:47:18] So that was no bueno, but that was like the breakthrough. Mm hmm. When. The dad has to go on this thing and he does invite the mom. I think it's after this. No, what happens is he goes and beats the brakes off of the friend. Like you said, at the school, the friend, all they're doing is hugging and he beats the crap out of this guy. And then he hits her in the face. And quote unquote by accident.

[00:47:47] And then when he does it, he's like, what's the problem? Yeah. Yeah. Not like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. But he's just like, will you make me angry because you talk to men? Right. Is essentially his like attitude towards it. And again, rewatching this as an adult. It just made me sad because she gets a black eye. I can imagine just like all the feelings you're feeling about this whole situation. She has a black eye and. Oh, sorry.

[00:48:15] We did skip the parents did go out of town. And so she has her brother because I think that's why it hurts so much and why the confusion is even more. It's because she does lose her virginity to him. He goes out doing shenanigans with his friends. She says like, hey, I have the house to myself. This is like the day after almost. Right. Yeah. That he starts punching her people. Yeah. And her. Yeah. And what's crazy is this scene where she gives him the code to the house.

[00:48:42] This man doesn't come and say, hey, I'm here. He gets strips himself down. And like. I don't know. I think she was already in her underwear. Yeah. Pulls the sheet back. She's just in her virginal white bra and panties. Uh huh. And as he's like caressing her and undoing her bra, he's like waking her up. Right.

[00:49:09] She, she was a little bit awake when, but like when she wakes, she just sees this man. Like it's very scary. Yeah. I'm very scared. Nothing about any of their intimate interactions is sexy at all. No. Yeah. But I think the directors and the producers probably thought it was, but in a weird way, it's like not supposed to. It's supposed to be right. Cause this is a red flag. And we're, I guess we're not really supposed to like, want to like this guy anyway.

[00:49:39] So yeah. But in the nineties we did like idiots. Looks for everything. So just the scene just made my skin crawl, like of him standing over her, the lighting of it all. Like, and you can tell she wakes up and she's kind of like surprised and scared because my, my dude, why are you like, but us? Yeah. You know? And then he just really goes for it.

[00:50:06] Like it's, it's unspoken that we are going to have sex. And there, if you look at her facial expressions, she looks scared. She looks nervous. She looks confused. She looks confused. She looks confused.

[00:50:33] So yeah, it, that scene actually made me very sad to watch actually. Mm-hmm. I think it was about that point when I text messaged you and I said, this movie is rough. I'm like, I feel so uncomfortable on so many levels watching this. It was not the fun rewatch. I thought I was going to have from like owning the VHS as a youth. Yeah. So yeah.

[00:50:59] Then, because now like she is wholly his, like he has done everything to her. That's when he beats up Gary, accidentally gives her a black eye, but isn't really apologetic at all for that. So the parents come home and the stepmom sees her black eye. And Nicole says that she got hit in the face during PE. My mom would have.

[00:51:29] What do you mean? Yeah. First of all, she knew I'm not participating in PE. I was on the bleachers the whole time. There was no way. I'm not participating. Yeah. I can't. I can't. I can't do it. So that's, that's the first thing that my mom would be like, second question. You beat that bitch up. Yeah. Because there ain't no accidents. If I'm getting a black eye, you get one too. We have a matching set. So ain't no way.

[00:51:59] But the stepmom is very sweet and she helps her with the makeup to cover it up. And put her hair like this weird swoop thing. Yeah. Instead of just telling the dad, hey, I had to cover up her black eye. This girl got a black eye at that damn school. Yeah. From volleyball. So it was weird that they were both participating and hiding it from the dad. Right. Which he noticed anyways. Later we find out.

[00:52:29] So she goes to school and this dude shows up at school. I would be terrified. Yes. Because he's following her. He's writing notes. He's showing up at the lunchroom. But I think the lunchroom thing doesn't happen till later because at this point she's still kind of on the fence about him.

[00:52:53] Yeah, I think the turning point was when he beat up Gary for no damn reason at all. Mm-hmm. And she was just like, because she couldn't even convince him like, hey, there was nothing going on. There was no conversation before that fight took place. He just sucker punched Gary and kept going. Yeah, they don't even talk about what Gary is to her and how it's harmless. Yeah, right.

[00:53:15] I think it was a seed, but she still lounders clearly because when her and her stepmom have the conversation, her stepmom's trying to work it through because she doesn't have all the information, doesn't know that, like, she's just learning about the whole game. And that's a scary situation. Yeah, because they hear her crying in her room. Right. So the stepmom is like, well, we had this really good moment with the makeup. Let me go talk to her. And Nicole confesses everything to the stepmom.

[00:53:44] And then the dad walks in and goes to get tissues for her and sees the condom wrapper. And so he knows. Yeah. Well, first he like, he automatically, because he comes in so hot, I think the stepmom is really trying to be like comforting so she feels safe to express what the hell's going on. And I think that part was good. And I think it was good that she told the dad to go because he's making it worse.

[00:54:12] Because at this age, you really can lose your children to an abusive person if you are coming at them as if they're doing everything wrong. You have to make it. Yeah, coming at them like it's her fault or something. Right. And plus, he doesn't even know his daughter that well yet. Like he doesn't really know her or vice versa. Right. So they don't really have that bond. It's very fragile.

[00:54:39] And so the way he comes at her while the stepmom is trying to build that trust and make it feel safe that you can come and tell us these things, we aren't going to judge you, everybody makes mistakes. And this man, it's not even about you, like you said, it's about his actions and we have to do things to keep you safe. But the moment the dad does that, now the daughter is in defense mode because when you're at that age, you're trying to make decisions. You feel like you're not a kid anymore.

[00:55:08] You want to say, this is my decision. This is who I want to be with. And like you're a grown up, essentially. And once he goes on that attack, she becomes defensive and then it just throws everything up in the air. Now, where I say this stepmom, I hear what she's saying, but where I feel like she fucked up is it's not just that he's manipulative. He's abusive and he has a hot head. He beat the brakes off that boy and gave her this really nasty black eye.

[00:55:38] There's no way I'm letting him come over and have a pool day and shit and then put wrap your arms around me, try to throw me in the pool. Yeah. Like that's where I'm like side eyeing her. And she says to the husband, like, what would you want her to do? Run away and do all this stuff. But yeah, there could be things. But he men like this don't do stuff like this if they know there's a family that's not playing around. Right.

[00:56:03] That there's not holes to kind of maneuver because all he's going to do is try to. She I get what she's doing because like then they try to isolate you. Mm hmm. So if she makes it feel like he's welcome there, it's a little bit harder, but you don't have to make him that welcome. Right. And.

[00:56:22] Like, and it just becomes a pattern is like he he rages, then he apologizes, plays the like sensitive guy again, and then rages all over again. And it's just cyclical. And Nicole does. Break up with him. At what point does the dad catch up with him? Like on the side of the road. She. He. Was it before the pool scene?

[00:56:52] No, it's after. Oh, God, he catches him the next day at school. Nicole goes. He drops her off or he's going to go pick her up or something, and he finds he's like, we need to talk. And he tells him, I'm going to fuck you up if you don't say my daughter, because I think that's when you know, after they had their confrontation, like he knows that he gave her the black eye. And then, and like the way David talks to the dad, it's just like, your wife wants my stick.

[00:57:22] And I'm like, who are you talking to? Like, what is happening right now? But he's, he's egging the dad on because he could read the insecurities on the dad. The dad was insecure that he was all over the wife and I'm sleeping with your daughter and your son like me and the dog like me like he was clocking the debt. Like, not wrong. And the dad's trying to get a lawyer. I said, you better get a gun. What are we talking about?

[00:57:52] And the dad like does all this research and he's like he he was in and out of foster care. And like to the step mom's credit, she's like that doesn't really mean anything, you know, like, does he have a criminal past? Like, right. These are the things we need to be looking into. Oh, but guys, remember. Oh, the thumping of the chest. Just make it look like he beat him. Oh, the chest beating.

[00:58:18] And that speaks to what you were saying, Naomi, which is that the dad and the daughter don't know each other well enough. Because if you had a decent relationship with your dad, no matter how mad he is, you would probably know he's not doing that shit. Maybe you trip him, which you mean my daddy did that to you. Yeah. Now, if you said my mama did it, I'd be like, well, that tracks accurate. Must have had it coming. Christine does not play.

[00:58:45] So that was crazy because now she comes home. She's freaking out. I know what you did to David. And he's like, what? Even the wife is like, damn, you did that? He's got everyone. And literally the wool will continue to stay over Nicole's eyes until one day David is trying to convince her to stay out. And she's like, I'm already in trouble. I can't do this. Right. And so he leaves. And then she's like, you know what? I am. And she follows him to the crackdown house that he lives in with all these men.

[00:59:15] Oh, what up? And what was there? I don't know. And they're passing Margot around like she is candy. Poor thing. And like, honestly. The whole thing was so shocking. Oh God. Yes. I did not see that coming at all. Well, from her, like, actually didn't see it coming from David, but then it kind of made sense later. But because I was like, well, he's so obsessed with Nicole. Why would he do that? Because he looks at women as objects. Yeah.

[00:59:45] But he also looks at good, good women and bad women and all this other stuff. And so with Margot, he essentially is like taking her. And so you can, it doesn't look like Margot's having a good time. Like it looks like she's scared. Yes. And that's what I don't understand about what happens when she's watching this whole scene, when Nicole sees this, that she's mad at Margot. Mm-hmm .

[01:00:15] When clearly anybody could watch that and see. And so it puts it into this like, oh, women are in competition and you've betrayed me. Right. When clearly there's something going on here. Like Margot was terrified and like she declines. Right. And even Margot's boyfriend like has little control over the situation because I think he fears David too, because he knows his brand of crazy. Right. Mm-hmm .

[01:00:44] So that whole scene was kind of, I again felt really bad for Margot because is she a girl's girl? No, but she's got issues. Yeah. Mm-hmm . She's also a victim. Yeah. And so Nicole leaves. Yeah. And then Margot goes over the next day cause she's like, Nicole's ignoring me. Let me go talk to her. And, and Nicole is playing video games with her little brother who is a child straight up tiny human.

[01:01:12] And Margot says to him, I wrote it down. When are you going to grow up so I can ravage you? Say what? That was so gross. Could you imagine? I come over to the house and I say to Johnny and you're there playing video. Like that is gross. Like crazy. That was nasty. What was happening? And then, and then it was at that moment. I was like, this movie was written by a man from the male gaze. Like. Yes. Yes.

[01:01:42] But a teenage girl who has been groomed by men. Yes. Sometimes will groom young, young boys. That's true. And I don't think we talk about that enough. So maybe not so outside of it's insane to hear and be like what Margot. But we also don't know, like for Margot to have been in that pipeline from the beginning. Mm hmm. So easily and quickly. Yeah.

[01:02:11] There's other stuff happening. She clearly has some sort of daddy situation going on because we only meet her mom. And her mom's gone on a lot. Right. Yeah. Anywho. So Margot and Nicole get in a fight cause Nicole's like, I saw what you did. And then Margot leaves and they live in Seattle. So they're driving like these windy mountain roads. And David catches up with her and is like essentially trying to run her off the road, but she's on the cliff side.

[01:02:39] Like, I don't know what, I guess his ultimate goal was for, to get her to pull over. Yeah. So he could talk to her. And then Nicole yells at him cause he's back on school property again, which the parents, the first time, like once, once she came home and she's like, I'm done with that dude. The parents should have already alerted the school when he beat up that guy. They should have been like, this kid can't be on campus. But I think they did.

[01:03:06] I think the dad at one point said like, we talked to security and everything. You'll be fine at school. Oh, and then David still shows up. Jesus. And then she yells for help. Yes. In the middle of the cafeteria. So that's when he goes to go chase down Margo because he assumes whatever violation he did to Margo, she went and snitched. Yeah. Not knowing that Nicole was there and saw, and she's telling him, I don't know how she knows. I did not tell her anything.

[01:03:36] And she doesn't want anything to do with David. And this is what's crazy is that they're all delusional to think that David is just, now that she's broken up with him, it's not a problem. Right. Like, but then daddy does something kind of crazy because, well, no, David does something crazy because the dad has to go to work and he has a meeting and his beautiful car is fucked up by David. Yeah. The Mustang. Fucked up.

[01:04:05] And he leaves a note that says, now I popped both your cherries. Yeah. Diabolical. Yeah. Also the daddy, like gets in the car of his coworker and then goes to find the crack den that they live in and fuck up his place. Well, I think he was just looking for anything. And then he finds that secret treasure chest that David had.

[01:04:33] Well, first off, let's take, talk about the Photoshop Saint Nicole poster that he has hanging on his wall. What about the shrine? It's a very strange shrine. Yeah. To Nicole. Yeah. What about his mugshot next to there? Yeah. It's like shrine to Nicole and then, oh yeah, my mugshot. So we know he's, he's, he's done time for something. We never find out what it was. Right.

[01:05:01] And then daddy found his treasures, which are like the panties. And then she had a bracelet that's a daddy's girl. And he changed it to David's girl and all this crazy ass stuff. I must've blinked. That was fucked up. It was so fucked up. And so dad's like, okay, we're not just dealing with like angsty teenage love. Like this person is a crazy person. Mm hmm.

[01:05:30] And then while dad's out doing this, David hunts Gary down and snaps his neck in the woods. So now I did nothing, nothing. He was just a sweet boy. Everything is completely volatile if it wasn't already. Yes. And so dad gets home. Margo's over at the house. Like Gary's dead. Nicole immediately knows like it's David.

[01:06:00] David gets back to the crack den. They see it's in shambles and his boys are like, we need to fuck this person up who fucked us up. And so David's like, let me lead you to them. Can we talk about the Chucky doll? That's just on the chilling. But I can't be, I can't be too judgmental because my brother has a life-size Chucky doll that he adores.

[01:06:22] So now they're going to the house and from here on, listeners from here on out, I cannot support this family and their shenanigans. The only person that made any sense during these scenes is the little boy. What's his name? Toby. Toby. I ride. I fuck with Toby. I ride with Toby. Everybody else.

[01:06:52] You be in that Jeep with Toby running over people. We missed something. Oh, what? When David carves. I love Nicole into his chest. His chest. Oh my God. And then pours ink over it to make it like a tot jailhouse tattoo type deal. That's some wild shit. I'm telling you that.

[01:07:13] And apparently, so the chest carving became one of the movies, obviously, that's one of the defining things besides like the, the, the punch in the chest. But the prop and makeup work had to sell the reveal without showing the act. So like we don't really see him. It's just making it stick and poke. But you do feel like it. They did a really good job making you feel like you were watching him carve in.

[01:07:40] And it says, Nicole, Nicole forever. That's a regret. Regret. Regret. Yep. So now we're at the house. They cut the phone lines and apparently all of the security shit Papa spends his hard earned money on goes through the phone line. So immediately they have no way of like alerting anyone that they're being invaded. Right.

[01:08:10] It's not like Sydney and scream where she could go order a pizza. What is he type on the computer? But there is like a security patrol booth at the beginning. So they live, it looks like they live on like a little islet. So there is a security booth at like the beginning of their street, but they can't call to it because lines are cut. David knows the code. So he's like punching in the code.

[01:08:39] Dad has to run over and like shove that shut. It seems like the windows were made with like some sort of like bulletproof glass type situation. Yeah, because they're trying to throw stuff at it. And they it's like they have shutters on on some parts of it, too. Like, but to jumpstart this action. And the brother has a dog whistle that he uses to call the dog back into the house.

[01:09:07] And the dog comes in with just its head. And that was the only other part that I remembered about this movie. And I was just like, why kill the dog? Why? Oh, my goodness. Honestly, when this movie came out, I don't know how white women did not gather together. Revolt boy. Yeah, that's what I forgot this scene. And I think maybe I had tried to not remember it or something.

[01:09:36] I don't know, because as soon as that happened, I was so upset. Like when this I couldn't even watch John Wick. Yeah, like I could not watch it after that scene. I shut it off and I've never even tried because I just not the animals. Yeah, like I just can't. They're too innocent. The dog was just a bystander in all of this. Like, even though I know an actual dog wasn't killed. I know this, but it's still. But it was also a really graphic shot.

[01:10:05] It wasn't just like the late you hear a thump thump noise like they showed the whole thing. And then that man had the nerve to stick his head in the doggy door to just. So, oh, I know that's what I'm killing. Yes. That's who I told me said I got you. And we, we don't immediately grab knives. We're in the kitchen. We're not grabbing knives.

[01:10:35] We're not grabbing baseball bat. Yeah, you can't tell me that man doesn't have a set of golf clubs somewhere in the house. Fire. I mean, I can scan and get the weapons immediately. Like, yeah, the wife wasn't doing enough. The only time I give her props is when she took that electric drill into that man's hand. And I, I fear she didn't do enough. No, no. I would have made it so that he was stuck in the door. Yeah.

[01:11:03] The dad made this like super, uber secure house, right? Obviously he has some sort of trauma where like he needs to protect the family. We don't have a safe room. We don't. So I have always told my husband, I need a second way out. Like if someone's coming down the hallway, I need to know I can jump out a window and skedaddle.

[01:11:28] Like, so when we were like designing a house that we never built, like we built that into the plan. Like the, the master closet had a door out the back. I need a second way out. It's because I've watched movies like this all my life. That's awesome. So no, no panic room, no like emergency escape plan, nothing. We've just got bulletproof glass, but the whole house is glass flimsy curtains that we keep.

[01:11:57] Keep peeking around. So they know exactly where you are in the house. Skylights homeboys just up on the skylight. So he can see that the kids have run into Nicole's room. Like how safe is this house? Papa? Like, what are we doing here? So yeah, Nicole realizes. Oh, at first. I'm trying to remember the order of events.

[01:12:24] So when did Toby crawl out the window before the security guy showed up? Oh, wow. Yeah. That's hard to remember. No, it's after after because was he already because he was already dead. He went to go get the car phone. He goes to the car phone, but then eventually he goes to get the keys to the handcuffs because his mom, his dumb ass mama. Like, I'm sorry, honey.

[01:12:52] You're my, my boo, my love of my life. But you ain't gonna protect my kids. Yeah. I didn't understand. I didn't understand. What you mean? I'm sorry, honey. I gotta do this. And you move in all the shit to let that dude gotta die. Because what is the alternative? You let them in and they now torture you potentially rape you and then kill you. And then your whole family's dead.

[01:13:20] It was the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Yeah. When, when that, when, when Marky Mark comes, there's like a little hole in the door and he goes, comes in like that. Right in his motherfucking eye. Right in his motherfucking eye. Oh, we, we didn't talk about the, the scene right as all this stuff starts happening

[01:13:45] where David tries to come in the door cause he has the code and dad has an extra deadbolt that he, he deadbolt so he can't get in. And he's like, let me in the fucking house. And apparently that was improvised by Mark Walrard. Yes, it was. Yes, it was. And then left on the cutting room floor and Brian Grazer's like, no, no, no. Where, where, where's the scene? Like, where is the shot?

[01:14:13] And it became one of like the most memorable scenes in the entire movie. But I'm like, you can't tell me. That's not him. He was in the zone when he did that scene. I know that there are wonderful people from Boston. Mm-hmm. Can't be it. Can't do it. Yeah. So. Not coming out right now. It's just.

[01:14:43] It's just. So yeah, Margo realizes she can see the security booth. So she starts flashing her lights. Cause they've also turned all the lights off. So it's harder for the people outside to see where they are. And Margo starts flashing her lights, get the attention of the security officer. He comes over. He's doing a good job at first. And then it all just fucking derails because of the dad. The dad's like, it's fine. It's not fucking fine, sir. First of all, you should have known.

[01:15:12] You should have had count of how many dudes there are. Yes. Why are you gallivanting outside like big dog coming? Because this part-time minimum wage mall cop has come in his little car. Sir, there's six dudes or five dudes out here and I can only account with my eyes. Yeah. Yes. I was so mad.

[01:15:40] And this man got his little penis like he gonna do something. You better shoot first and ask later. Yes. I don't know you. I don't know you. And you don't live here. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. At least shoot him in the knees or something. Yes. Something. Toby, the MVP says, you know what? I think I can get down there from my window.

[01:16:08] And Nicole, this bird ass bitch, she does not show any concern for this child. She don't go to watch him. Nothing. She's like, yeah, yeah, go take care of that. I'll be here with Margo who's having a menti bee. Right.

[01:16:26] Let me tell you, if I was Toby that night I would have packed my bags, my daddy might be trash, but he's less trash than all of you. Cause my mama letting people come in the house to come gang rape her and kill her. Yeah. My, my stepdaddy didn't build a proper house. My dog did. This bird bitch is telling me to climb through windows and stuff. She brought this man into our lives to begin with.

[01:16:56] The pedophile girl who's trying to get at me is crying like a little bitch. I pack in my bags. Cause there ain't no way. And Toby was the only one with any sense. He put that car in reverse. And both sets of wheels, bump bump. And he didn't even seem sorry about it. Do you know what he had to do when he got it done? He did.

[01:17:22] He put it, he put it, he drove over the dude and quickly put it in park. And down, down, down, down, down, down. With a quickness. With a finesse. Yes. Like, how does this 10 year old know how to drive a vehicle so eloquently? And know just exactly what you need to do. How much pressure you need on the gas to get over the body twice.

[01:17:50] That's why there should be a whole other series on what he's been up to. Yeah. Obviously done a joy ride before. All I know is that if they just added one thing, which is you, you kill my dog, motherfucker. If he had said that. Oh yeah. Justice. You know, and then. Justice for the dog. Not only that. He calls 911, runs over, gets rid of one more dude. Yep.

[01:18:17] Rolls over and finds a dead, the boy has to engage with a dead body, unfortunately. But he gets the keys. Yeah, the trauma this poor kid has to go through that day. Yes. Gets the keys. And he helps mama out of the situation. And daddy was, daddy got washed up in that fight with David is like, he, first of all, grimy dude is trying to take advantage of Nicole.

[01:18:48] Oh, and Margo and Nicole are yelling. I don't know what she doing. And then she get, no, she got mopped up by the old boy because she was trying to protect her friend. And Nicole's ass is just sitting there. It takes a while before they both jump in. And I know trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma, but we are not friends after this anymore. Both of them. They need to go separate ways. I'm just so mad. And then David shoots him in the head. Yes.

[01:19:16] One of my notes for like the, the scene by scene breakdown, it says podcast question on first watch who expected Toby to have one of the highest body counts in the locker room. Not wrong. No. Poor Toby, but you know, I rides with Toby. No. And you know what? Nicole finally redeemed herself when she took that piece off her and stick. What was it? Peace. Yeah.

[01:19:44] Cause David's now beating the shit out of dad about to shoot him in the head. He'd keep catching a fade for sure. Cause like he came out the house was like rolling up punch here, punch that. Yeah. If you ain't got a knife to slice up something, what is a punch going to do my boy? And also I did not forget that that man said he was 40. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:12] 40 really didn't look that great. Yeah. And that like, not look great, but that was a hard 40. Let me see how William, how William Peterson actually was. Let me go look in the mirror. Anyhow. He, so now he getting jumped. Well, not really. He's getting, he's getting beat by David.

[01:20:35] And when Nicole came with that angle with that pipe, I know that hit some organ for sure. Well, cause David immediately, he had like a little, Ooh, it was a noise that like, you don't typically hear in these type of movies. Cause it wasn't like a, like you bitch or anything. It was just like a little, Ooh. He was winded for sure.

[01:21:05] He sounds sick. At this point, I like do whatever you need to do to this man. Nicole. It was like a job scene. It was like a wrestling move. The way she came in at that angle girl, where has this been the whole time? And then he got thrown out the window dead. Yeah. Mm. All right. Now I can't remember who put him out the window. The dad. Oh God. Yeah. I think. He finally got it together. He peeled himself off that floor.

[01:21:35] And we got like that weird, like Joker scene where like, it just like kind of zooms in and the camera kind of turns to show that he he's really dead. Yeah. Yeah. And straight to the credits. Yes. Like there's a little aftermath, you know, some, you know, ambulance or whatever cops show up or whatever, but it's straight to the credits. No resolution of what's happened to these people. None.

[01:22:05] Not like a year later or anything like that. Not Toby turning into Dexter and his adulthood, which is my canon for Toby. All roads lead back to Dexter. They really do. Geez. Not a project about it. Well, Jackie, we did it. Yeah. That's fair. That's fear. Fear. It's fear. Yeah. Excellent.

[01:22:36] What other fun facts do we have? What was, Naomi, what was the most surprising thing on this rewatch for you? Yeah. The dog, because I forgot. And just like, I knew that he was progressively going to get crazier and crazier. So that wasn't really shocking. Except I think the scene with Margo, Alyssa Milano's character, when Nicole catches them in that and watches through the window. I was like, Oh shit.

[01:23:06] I don't remember this. Yeah. Oh girl. Yeah. That was sobering. Yeah. Yeah. William Peterson was 43 in 1996. Agreed. I'm older than him right now. Yeah. Then he was in that boobie. But we all look better now at our ages than they used to back in the day. Remember golden girls? Yeah, that's true. I just like, it's all those good preservatives.

[01:23:36] We were just pickling ourselves from the inside. All those lunchables. It doesn't look so good on the inside, but the outside. Right. The outside. Awesome. Not a wrinkle in sight. That's funny. Oh. So the story is set in the Seattle area, but production spent only a few days filming establishing

[01:23:59] shots in the Seattle area before moving primarily to Vancouver and nearby British Columbia locations for the rest of the shoot. So they were over on your side of town. Yeah. The screenplay was originally titled No Fear and Nicole's mother was seen in flashbacks. Her name was given as Melissa Nichols, thus explaining the origin of Nicole's first name.

[01:24:29] Interesting. Interesting. The amusement park scenes were filmed at Playland at the Pacific National Exhibition in Vancouver. The wooden coaster is Playland's historic wooden roller coaster. That's a very descriptive name to get into. Yeah. P&E, eh? Yeah. Marky Mark was actually nominated for an MTV movie award for this. Mm-hmm. Best villain.

[01:24:59] He earned it. Yeah. He earned himself. Who won? If not him. I don't know. Possibly been more evil. Well, the writer. So this movie, obviously we said who the writer was, but W. Peter Liff? Liff? I don't know. He was the script doctor on this film. He also wrote Point Break, Varsity Blues, and Patriot Games. So he zzzed it up.

[01:25:29] Hmm. And it was filmed in 1994, but not released until April 1996. So it sat on the shelf for a couple of years. Yeah. I wonder why. Oh. You know, and it's probably because around this time, if this came out in 96, like they were, there's like a team boom. Mm-hmm. So maybe, I don't know. Interesting. Don't keep lunch commitments. Yeah. I know. Well, hmm? Jim Carrey won for the cable guy. In my head, that's who I thought of. You should have said it. And I was like, no.

[01:25:59] I should have. Oh. Okay. Well, this movie had, like we said, a pretty solid soundtrack and score. So Carter Burrell composed the score. And by 1996, he was already known for his collaborations with the Coen brothers for scoring dark character driven films. So this was up his alley. And the wild horses cover.

[01:26:23] It was by the Sundays and made it infamous with this movie for sure. Tell me about the illest. Because I think you mentioned something that you had a tidbit on that. Oh, yes. So Marky Marks, the illest appears in this film, creating a very strange overlap between Mark Waldberg's fading music persona and his acting career.

[01:26:48] So this was like a closing of a chapter because I don't think he did much with music after this. I don't really know that story. I spent time trying to erase that as well. Wasn't he in Rockstar? Or wasn't that that movie? Oh, yes, he was. Yes. With Jennifer Aniston. Jennifer Aniston. Yeah. Oh my God, Jackie. That's a Nova movie. Because I know I've never seen it. I've never seen it either. I know he doesn't do the singing for his character.

[01:27:17] I'm absolutely positive it was a band called Steel Dragon who did that because Mark's never been a singer. Yeah. I was that was never a question for me. So they got all the stay in New Kids for a reason. I'm pretty sure. Right. So yeah. Yeah. Been attempts to remake fear in 2019.

[01:27:41] Universal announced that they would produce a remake with Brian Grazer again producing along with Karen Lender as a co producer. Jonathan Herman was reported to adapt Crowe's script for a modern audience and Amanda Stenberg was in talks to star. Sorry, Amandla Stenberg was in talks to star. And then I found a little bit more about it. Hulu. That initially fell apart. The remake, the movie remake. This article came out in 2022.

[01:28:11] But Peacock was considering making it a series. Hmm. Which. If anyone watched the and I don't know if it was on Peacock or not, but the what was that with your boy and Lizzie Kaplan. Oh, Joshua Jackson. The fetal attraction. Oh, fetal attraction. That was the one. It was not good. It was not good.

[01:28:35] So maybe they saw how that performed and was like, maybe not since people already know this story. But yeah, we shall see. Maybe we will get a remake of some sort in the future. But like you have to do things differently because everyone has a cell phone like there has to be some isolation somewhere or something. Yeah. That watch thing ain't working. No. I have that same thought too.

[01:29:00] Also, when at one point Nicole comes home and she says, where's dad? And the stepmom says he's in his work room. Ma'am, you mean an office? Because that was an office. He had a computer. He had a desk. What do you mean work room? I don't have any words. It could. I can't help it. I don't know.

[01:29:30] On that note. So before we get ratings for how we feel now, make sure that you follow No More Late Fees on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube threads, all the places. And follow Naomi and Dope Nostalgia at dope underscore nostalgia and visit DopeNostalgia.com. And we'll also have links in our liner notes as well. All right. Present day rating.

[01:29:59] How did you feel? What is your rating now that you've rewatched it as a full grown adult? Because of the dog scene? Same day. Yeah, I'm giving that back immediately. Totally. But other than that, if that doesn't happen, I probably would have gone up one ranking. Okay. Okay. I'll do today. Not the worst thing I've seen, but not going to watch it again. I laughed so much watching this.

[01:30:29] Yeah. My girl was like, what are you watching? I was like, I just laughed. I know that's not appropriate. I'm doing it. I forgot. I forgot. I forgot. I forgot. I was like, oh, okay. I don't know. I'm going to see you. Yeah. I'm going to see you. I'm going to see you.

[01:30:57] You're going to see you. I'm going to see you. 6653. You can also tweet us, Hemis at the threads, Butterfly in the Sky at Blue Sky, and you can be featured on a future episode. And get ready because next week we kick off spooky season with Event Horizon. And Naomi, it was such a pleasure. Thank you for joining us.

[01:31:26] Thank you. You guys are really good at this. Like I really enjoyed all your commentary and it was entertaining. So thanks for having me. She comes with compliments. Thank you. And as always, be kind and rewind.