The Assassination of Jesse James By the Coward Robert Ford (2007) / The Great Silence (1968)

[00:00:02] Let's get together, talk about the movies that we saw this week. We'll have discussions, talk film news, we'll laugh a lot and act like geeks. Sometimes we'll have a guest or two, sometimes it's just the two of us. Let's crack some jokes and tell some folks to come along and hang with us! Mike and... chosen wisely.

[00:00:28] Alright, hello and welcome to what is, for once, an actually pretty appropriate double feature for a Mike Makes Mike watch. You know what? Yeah, it is, you're right. It is. It's Mike and Mike out of the movies, I'm Mike Smith, and joining me as always is a

[00:00:42] silent killer who only strikes in self-defense. Mike DiCiccio. How you doing, Mike? I'm doing just great. We're live and we got cool movies to watch, you know? Yeah, that's... if nothing else in 2025, we can say that for now, right? Yes, hopefully that continues for a long time. I just saw today, like a couple hours ago, they announced that the Macon Blair directed remake of Toxic Avenger is getting a full wide release. It is? Unrated wide release. What?

[00:01:12] To Bloody Disgusting and the company that also put out Terrifier, the Terrifier movies. Okay. So they bought the rights and they said today, at the end, I forget what the date, I didn't look at the date, but this year it will get a unrated wide release in theaters, which is crazy. So hopefully we make it that long. Fingers crossed. Yes, that is, that's keeping me going now. Yeah. This is news that I was not aware of and I am thrilled that's the case. That movie's been like kind of sitting on the shelf for a while. Like it...

[00:01:40] Yeah, I think two and a half or a year and a half ago or whatever at Beyond Fest or something, it had its premiere. One of those like weird film festivals. Yeah. Might have been Fantastic Fest, but yeah. Fantastic Fest, maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I think in 2023 that happened. So... Okay. Very cool. Yeah. I'm excited for that. Macon Blair directed a movie I really, really loved in like 2017, I think. I don't feel at home in this world anymore, which is a movie that I really liked and one that I feel like never gets talked about because it was like, you know, it was a Netflix thing.

[00:02:07] Netflix original. Yeah. It premiered at Sundance, Netflix bought it, they dumped it on the service a month later and no one ever talked about it again, but it was good and people should watch it. Elijah Wood, Melanie Linsky, really fun. If you're a fan of the Jeremy Saulnier movies that Macon Blair was in, Blue Ruin and Green Room, I think it's a lot like those, but funnier. Oh yeah. It's more of a dark comedy than those movies are. I think about that scene in that movie where Melanie Linsky and Elijah Wood, I think are going to intimidate some guy and he throws a, like a,

[00:02:37] throwing star in the wall. Yes. And then at the end of the scene, he can't pull it out and he's like, that's how hard I threw that. Um, which is, I think about that all the time. There's a, there's a moment in that movie where Elijah Wood is, um, he's like acting as if he's like hacking into something. Yeah. He's like on the computer and he's, he's really just like typing like the, he's guessing the password and it's just open set and he says open sesame and he gets, he gets in, he like types the word password or something. Yeah. But it's like the most intense, like hacking scene that the, the movie can muster. And I remember

[00:03:07] talking about that on Twitter once and Elijah Wood responded to me and said open sesame. And I was like, that was, that was one of the high points of my life. It was probably the last time Twitter was good. Um, yes. It was back in 2017. That tracks actually, that makes sense. Yeah. Anyway, making Blair friend of the show is what we're saying. Yes. Making Blair friend of the show. Actually, you know, one of the time Twitter was good was actually this past weekend. We got the unfortunate news that David Lynch passed away. Yes. Uh, who, uh, is one of my all time favorite directors. I'm a huge David Lynch fan. I was actually already in the

[00:03:37] middle of a twin peaks rewatch because that's what you do when you're unemployed is you rewatch, you rewatch twin peaks. And so I've, I've been a kind of in David Lynch's world for a little bit, uh, just kind of rewatching the show. And then that news hits, uh, which was extremely unfortunate. But one nice thing about it is that, uh, my Twitter feed for like three straight days was just people sharing all the cool David Lynch stories of, uh, you know, of the past several years and how much his work has meant and all that kind of stuff. I got to go see Mulholland drive and 35 millimeter on Sunday, which just happened to be playing in Missoula, you know,

[00:04:07] at that time that was not planned that it happened to be the weekend David Lynch died. Um, but, uh, it happened to be playing at the Roxy. And so I went and, uh, man, it was, uh, it was terrific. No, I mean, I've seen the movie a couple of times now, but man, it's great. Love it. Uh, yeah. So yeah. RIP David Lynch. That was pretty rough news, uh, from this past weekend today. However, Mike, we're doing a Mike makes Mike watch. Yes. It's happening. Uh, so for those who have never listened to a Mike makes Mike watch before, I feel like it's fairly self-explanatory, but here's what it is.

[00:04:37] I'm making Mike D watch something he's never seen before. He's making me watch something that I've never seen before. You know, it is really all right there in the name. Yes, exactly. Uh, and often with the Mike makes Mike watches, we do talk about them as if it's like, you know, we kind of joke about, Oh yeah. And this is a double feature because this, like there's this one small element that kind of ties them together. Yeah. There's a green thing in both of these scenes. So, uh, and the fact is very often they do not really pair well as a double feature, but

[00:05:07] this time around completely by accident, I do think we got two movies that really do feel of a piece with each other in some ways. Yes. Yeah. I didn't, unfortunately did not get the chance to rewatch the great silence. So I'm not as well, well versed in the thematic elements, so to speak and how they directly connect or may directly connect. Uh, but they are both, uh, kind of Westerns. Mostly great silences entirely like snowbound. Yes. But Jesse James has a lot of that too. Yeah. Like the whole back half of the movie is the winter. Um, so I think, yeah,

[00:05:37] they're connected. Yes, absolutely. Uh, and so that's what today's Mike makes Mike watch is. Uh, I'm making Mike D watch, uh, Andrew Dominic's 2007 film, uh, the assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford, uh, which is one of the greatest titles that any movies ever had. Uh, and, uh, he is making me watch Sergio Corbucci's 1968 spaghetti Western, the great silence.

[00:05:56] I think just in also in title, which I know it's the title of the novel, the assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford. Yes. But in the tradition of full sentence, Italian movies, full titles, Italian movies having full sentence titles that's in there. Yes. That's what I'm saying. I think, uh, yeah. What's, what's the name of the, uh, the, the fake Western from once upon a time in Hollywood that we liked, um, that I'm completely blanking on. Oh, kill me quick. Ringo said the gringo. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Terrific. Anyway. So yeah,

[00:06:26] we're talking about both those movies today. I did get the chance to rewatch assassinate Jesse James, uh, and I watched great silence for the first time. So which of these movies would you like to talk about first, Mike? Um, let's talk about, I guess, assassination of Jesse James first. Well, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, I think that's a good one. If you're going to do the double feature, I feel like that one would be the one to start with. Um, yeah. Hey, it's a lot longer. Um, it's that's like two hours and 40 minutes, I think right there. And I think it's, it's not necessarily bleaker than great silence. Well, that's what I was going to say is like, I don't remember great silence.

[00:06:56] It's being like a, ha ha. This is kind of a fun, wacky spaghetti Western. Um, right. I do think I mean, watching it, I was like, this is, I I'm enjoying it. It's not like a fun, ha ha Western, but it's like, oh, it's fun because it's a Western. And there's like big shootouts and stuff like that. And then the ending happens. And I, and man, it really got me. So we'll talk about that in a little bit, but right now let's start with, uh, the assassination of Jesse James by the coward, Robert Ford. It's time for a Mike makes Mike watch.

[00:07:22] I hope they choose. Mike's watching Mike's movie. His children didn't know how their father made his living or why they so often moved. They didn't even know their father's name.

[00:07:54] He regretted neither his robberies nor the 17 murders that he laid claim to. And on September 5th, 1881, Jesse James was 34 years old. I can't believe I'm sitting with none other than Jesse James. Man, he's the night. I stayed up. My eyes open. My mouth open. Just reading about your escapades. They're all lies, you know.

[00:08:24] It is interesting the many ways you and I overlap. You're the youngest of three James boys. I'm the youngest of five Ford boys. You have blue eyes. I have blue eyes. You're five feet, eight inches tall. I'm five feet, eight inches tall. I honestly believe I'm destined for great things, Mr. James. You're giving me signs that make me wonder. Maybe your mind's been changed about me. Can't figure it out. You want to be like me? Or you want to be me?

[00:08:55] You think it's all made up, don't you? I think it's all yarns and newspaper stories. He's just a human being. That hand's a lot of mean face. I wonder about that man that's gone so wrong. I've been a nobody all my life.

[00:09:25] I know I won't get this one opportunity and you can bet your life I'm not going to spoil. Seems to me if you have something to confess, you spit it out now. All right. That was from the trailer for The Assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford, which is a movie where you have to say the full title every time you talk about it. You mean.

[00:09:52] Directed by Andrew Dominick from 2007 starring people like Brad Pitt, Casey Affleck, Sam Rockwell. Really a lot of guys in this movie. Lots of dudes. This is one of those movies where everybody who pops up is like, oh shit, this guy's in this movie? Crazy. They're in it for one scene and they're gone, which is nuts. Yes. And so, Mike, I think the reason I wanted to make you watch this movie, I knew it was one that you hadn't seen. It was one that I had seen once and I kind of used it as an opportunity to rewatch it, refresh memory a little bit. But I remember really loving it.

[00:10:21] It is part of that kind of 2007 wave of movies where we talk about that year in film and really how good that year was. That's the year of their only blood. No Country for Old Men. Juno also came out in 2007. Zodiac, Assassination James. One of these things, not like the other. Yeah. But really, it was a big year for like big epic films about the downfall of violent men. Right. You know? And I remember that Oscar season.

[00:10:48] This was nominated for, I'm not sure it was nominated for Picture, but it got some nominations in there. I think it was nominated for Cinematography. I think it has, like this movie looks incredible. It's a Deacon's joint. It looks great. But it got a few nominations there. But that was the year. It was No Country versus There Will Be Blood really at the Oscars. And it was also like Juno was also in there. And it's like, you know, Juno is like, you know, it's a comedy, but it's a comedy about like teen pregnancy. But that was seen as like the lighthearted fair among like. Yeah. Right. You know, everything else.

[00:11:17] But yeah, I think the reason I wanted to make you watch this is because A, it's really good. B, I kind of wanted to start off our January with like a banger. Okay. You know, I wanted to start off Mike Makes Mike Watch. You know, we do these once a month. And I feel, I felt like, you know, top of the year. This is a movie I bet Mike would really like. So I'll throw it out there in January. I completely forgot how much of it takes place in the winter. So that just happened to be like, you know, a fun coincidence, a fun surprise. How about that? But yeah. What did you think of The Assassination of James? What was your perception of the movie before this?

[00:11:47] So my perception of it was one, I knew it was a Deacon's joint. So I was like, it's going to be incredible. I like that we're like, it's a Deacon's joint more than it is an Andrew Dominick joint. Well, he's made like two movies, right? Or three movies, I guess. That's right. What was it? So I think, was it Chopper is his first movie? The Australian? Really? Yes. I'm pretty sure. But yeah, that was his first film. And then it's Killing Them Softly, which rules. A big fan of that movie. And then more recently, Blonde, the Marilyn Monroe biopic. Right. Which is not very good.

[00:12:16] A pretty bad movie, in my opinion. And one that I was very excited for because of how much I like Jesse James. Fair enough. Killing Them Softly, yeah. But yeah, Jesse James Killing Them Softly. And yeah, Chopper was his first film, which I've never seen Chopper. Have you seen Chopper? I've not seen Chopper, but I've heard of it because of Elric Kane. He's a big fan of it, yeah. Yeah. Talked about it on a bunch of podcasts and stuff. But I love Killing Them Softly. That was a big movie for my friends in college, which is weird. Yeah. I mean, like, hanging out, you want to watch Killing Them Softly?

[00:12:47] And like, we would. You want to get upset about the state of America? Yeah. Man. Nothing like watching the Obama acceptance speech to Brad Pitt then saying, America's a business, fuck you, pay me. Yes. Anyway. And cuss the credits, the best things in life are free money. That's what I want. Yeah. No, it's great. Wow, chef's kiss. So I was excited to watch Jesse James and I probably just never got around to it because, you know, in 2007 I was 16, I guess. Sure, yeah. It was just like, whatever.

[00:13:15] It's a two and a half hour slow Western. I don't know. Who wants that shit? So anyway, yeah, I'm glad you made me watch it because this movie rules. And it is absolutely like a dude's rock. Not really dude's rock, but I mean. Dude's rock and then feel bad about rocking afterwards. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And what I really mean by that is the, oh shit, it's that guy. Like, oh shit, it's that guy. Like, oh my God. Yeah. It's Sam Rockwell. It's Jeremy Renner as a child. Yes. Basically. Yeah.

[00:13:43] This was the same year as 28 weeks later, actually. Whoa. So yeah, big year for Jeremy Renner right before he blew up. Yeah. Yeah. No, just running down the cast list here. It's Brad Pitt, Casey Affleck, Sam Shepard, Jeremy Renner, Sam Rockwell, Paul Schneider, who is Mark Brindanowicz on Parks and Rec. Yeah, he's great. Mary Louise Parker's in this movie, Zooey Deschanel pops up at the very end. Yeah. Ted Levine, Michael Parks, Pat Healy, Garrett Dillahunt. No, you got some people in here. You got some guys. You got some people. So yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:10] And it does feel of a piece with killing them softly in the just the complete and total American lie thing. And really, the only way to achieve the American dream is to cheat and murder your weights at the top, which, of course, leads to your ultimate demise. Anyways, so that was interesting thematically to watch literally yesterday, the day that we're recording this. So that's fun. We don't need to get into that. Sure. But then just like, you know, we used to have movies, basically, is also the thing.

[00:14:40] This is 2007. Granted, this was big Oscar nominated stuff. Right. But it's just like, man, however they're figuring out the weird vignetting of the rounded distortion around the edges of some of these landscapes and shots is just like, they used to do stuff in movies. Like, they used to be creative.

[00:15:01] Somebody posted a screenshot of the Drew Carey show of like a two second throwaway bit where all of a sudden, like all the lighting changes and it's like incredible, like it's dark shadow contrast. And it's like, this is a dumb sitcom on network TV for five seconds to make a joke. We used to know how to do this stuff. We've just lost the knowledge, it seems. So anyway, and all the performances are great. It does. It does. It's long. It's like two hours, like you said, two hours and 40 minutes of just like sad men.

[00:15:32] You know? So at a certain point, I did dip and then come back. You know, it's like, it sags a little. I don't really know where or when necessarily like in the movie that I was like, man, this could be cut out. I didn't really have that kind of thought, but I was just like, well, man, come on. I'm with you. I'm on board, but maybe some of it can come out. So yeah. But anyway, long story short, yeah, the movie is cool as hell and I'm glad you made me watch it. Uh, and Roger Deakins is a God. Yes. Uh, yeah. So I was, I'm looking it up. Uh, it actually only got nominated for two Oscars. I thought it got nominated for more. Really?

[00:16:02] I did see it was also like a bomb too, like a box office bomb or something, which is crazy. Yeah. That, that, I mean, that makes sense. I don't know. I mean, it makes sense too, but for what, what I like remember this movie being, uh, right. Like I, I maybe just because the title is so enticing, uh, to me or like, I feel like I knew it. Like I, I didn't watch this until many years after it came out, but I remember I knew the title from then because I was just like this. Yeah. Because it's such a distinctive title, the, the assassination of Jesse James with a coward, Robert Ford. But yeah, no, the Oscars it was nominated for was nominated for cinematography, uh, which it lost.

[00:16:31] Which is insane. It, it, unbelievable. I think Deakins was nominated twice that year and he didn't lose, didn't win either of them because he didn't win an Oscar until I think Blade Runner 2049. Right. Remember when we were so hyped for that? I think so. Yeah. So yeah, no, he, he did not win best cinematography. And the other nomination was Casey Affleck for best supporting actor. Uh, which yeah, sure. He's really good. To Brad Pitt now with all the stuff coming out about him. Sure. Yeah. And unfortunate. Just these monsters are really great at playing damaged men.

[00:17:01] And I wonder why, um, uh, yeah. In case you're wondering there will be blood is the one that won best cinematography. Okay. Okay. Fine. One of those things where it's like, yeah, no, that looks incredible too. Really. I mean that, that category that year is there will be blood as the winner. Assassination Jesse James. Atonement is nominated. The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. And then No Country for Old Men, which is also Roger Deakins. I can't believe Deakins is nominated twice and loses. That's wild. I mean, when he got not, when he won for Blade Runner, that was like his like 19th or time

[00:17:31] or something being nominated, right? Like he, he'd been nominated so many times. I remember it being a very big deal. Yeah. And I don't remember the specific numbers, but yeah. Which is crazy. Yes. Uh, just in the, in the years between Assassination Jesse James and No Country for Old Men and Blade Runner, Deakins was nominated for The Reader in 2008. Uh, he was nominated for True Grit in 2010. Uh, he was nominated for Skyfall in 2012, uh, nominated for Unbroken in 2014, nominated for Sicario in 2015. Yep. Yep. Uh, nominated. Uh, and then he won for Blade Runner in 2017.

[00:18:00] So he still had like six nominations to go before he finally got there. And then he won again in 2019 for 1917, which is shot very well. So that's, that's cool. Anyway. Anyway, yeah. Assassination of Jesse James by the Robert Coward Ford. By the coward Robert Ford. Robert Coward Ford. Man. They call him Coward so much. It's his middle name now. It's his middle name now. Which is kind of the vibe you get by the end of the movie. Um, yeah.

[00:18:27] But I love the, which I'm guessing is the narration from the novel. I don't really know, but just the. I believe it is. Yeah. Who is like omniscient narrator telling you the story is so good. Yeah. It's, it's Hugh Ross who is the narrator, who is a Scottish actor. Uh, he's in like train spotting and Bronson. Okay. Um, but he's also, he's also like an, he was like the assistant editor of the movie. No way. Really? Yeah. And they got him to narrate the movie. Uh, and then Nick cave who does the score. Uh, which is amazing. It's an incredible score. This movie puts together.

[00:18:55] Uh, he also has a cameo as like a folk singer, uh, in the saloon at some point. Yeah. He's like singing at the end, making fun of a Robert Ford. Yeah. It's kind of like the last, uh, moment. Well, so like, yeah, it's when he's in New York and, and they're like, they like have a stage play or whatever of the moment when he assassinates Jesse James. Uh, and, uh, yeah, he's like drunk in a saloon and Nick cave is in there. And I was like, is that fucking Nick cave? Like he starts way at the back of the room and like slowly I was like, wait a second. Yeah.

[00:19:22] And yeah, he like has a fall down drunk moment thing where he's like, well, I'm not a coward whatever and he like falls over, uh, and they run him out of town basically. Yes. Yeah. And I love, I mean, one of the things that, uh, really resonates the most with me with this movie. I mean, a Casey Affleck, Brad, Brad Pitt, they're both really fantastic in it. And then there's the moment where Casey Affleck does assassinate Jesse James, which is probably like two hours into the movie. There's still a good chunk of movie left. It's a little bit later than that, but yeah, there is a lot there. I think there's a 30 or 20 minutes left. Yeah.

[00:19:51] Something along those lines, there's still a lot of movie left. I think that assassination scene is unbelievably good. Uh, like beautiful. And I will say I, so I had seen this movie a few years ago, but my first introduction to that scene was many years earlier, uh, because I watched a YouTube video called, uh, the assassination of Yogi Bear by the coward Boo Boo. Good God. Uh, and somebody took the scene from this movie and animated it so that it's Yogi Bear and Boo Boo. Yeah. And it's like word for word, exactly.

[00:20:23] That's, uh, to the point where like Yogi Bear is looking at the picture and all that stuff, like it's everything that's the same. That's amazing. So yeah, that was my first introduction to it, but like watching the actual scenes, like, yeah, this is one of the most poetic, beautiful death scenes I've ever seen in a movie. It's incredible. But then I love how like this assassination, you know, they've sort of been at odds the entire movie. They're sort of friends. They're sort of not. They sort of run with the same crew, but it's clear that like there's resentment, but from Robert Ford towards Jesse James, because Jesse James is sort of like seemingly effortless,

[00:20:52] effortlessly cool. And Robert Ford is not right. He just does not have that charisma that Jesse James has. Yeah. He's like, he's a little bit of a dunce. He's, uh, idolized and obsessed with Jesse James this whole life. And, and like, you know, there's that whole scene where he makes him or his brother, Sam Rockwell makes him like, tell him all the ways you used to say that you were just, just the same. You were alike. And he's got to like embarrassingly explain, oh yeah, we have the same number of letters, whatever, same number of whatever it is, all the weird, uh, coincidences between the two of them.

[00:21:22] And it, it clearly crosses over into the, this is no longer flattery thing. Like this is uncomfortable for Jesse James and everything. Uh, and he just immediately starts bullying Robert, just like his brothers, just like everyone else. And like, he realizes like, even my hero doesn't respect me. Uh, and just, he just, that's it really for the rest of the movie. Yeah. And so they're, you know, circling each other throughout the whole movie there together. But when he finally assassinated Jesse James, he's thinking to himself like, well, this will finally bring me respect nationwide.

[00:21:51] Like people will know who I am as a result of this. And people will like, I'll be held as a hero because Jesse James is a notorious criminal. But what he didn't take into account is that Jesse James is more of a folk hero than anything else at this point. Like people like, you know, his criminal escapades are like the stuff of legend at this point. And it's a weird, like, uh, you know, even though he took down a notorious, like gang leader, he is still like, he's hated now by everyone else. Yeah. Uh, and he like tries to capitalize on this thing by like having this play where he shows

[00:22:19] how he killed Jesse James and he just, it sends him into like a deeper and deeper spiral. Yeah. I mean, I love the, the way the, the, the, that final act, like after Jesse dies, which, uh, you know, there's two hours of movie or whatever before that, which is also very good. Um, but just like the kind of collapse of the James brothers gang, uh, and, and all that stuff. But the showing after Jesse dies, the like fanfare at his house, be like people paying to come stand in the room where he died and people paying to see his body on ice.

[00:22:48] Like one of the first pictures ever taken is like his, but not really, but you know, like, uh, the, the pictures of his body are sold in, in dime stores all over the country and all this stuff. And, and there's this, this stage play that the, that, uh, the Ford brothers put on about how they assassinated Jesse James and all this stuff. And then contrasted with when Robert Ford gets killed. Uh, and the narrator says like by a no name guy who didn't make a plan and had no deal

[00:23:14] with the law, which is why Ford ultimately assassinates Jesse James, right? It's because he makes like a plea deal. Like, Oh, if you exonerate me, I'll kill him kind of thing. And, and people hated Ford so much that the, there was like a petition and letter writing campaign to the point that the governor of Colorado pardoned the guy that killed Ford over it. Uh, you know, I don't know if that's all true, but that's in the narration of the movie. Uh, you know, all that stuff, like just the, the complete and total like opposites between the nation's reaction to Jesse's death, uh, and the reaction to Robert Ford's death.

[00:23:44] Yes. I think, uh, the way, so Edward O. Kelly is the guy who kills, uh, Robert Ford and it mentions he is sentenced to life in prison. However, he is pardoned after 10 years. Uh, right. So he serves 10 years and then he's out. Um, just crazy. Yes, absolutely. That's yeah. No, I think this movie is terrific. I I'm glad I got the chance to rewatch it, uh, for this. Um, you know, or even just to look at it, like just, this is like, you know, I like that train robbery at the beginning is so good. Uh, there's so many just incredible landscape shots. Like this might be, you know, it's, it's tough competition that year.

[00:24:13] There will be blood also looks great. No country for old men also looks great. Yeah. It's been a while since I've watched either of those movies. I might've given it to this one. I don't know. Like, like just looks incredible. Just like the, from what I remember, no country, I mean, looks amazing obviously, but it is a much more of a naturalistic thing going on. But this movie has so much like cinematography, like film making in it. Uh, you know, all these weird time-lapse photography of the landscapes changing and, and, uh, like

[00:24:42] we were talking about before the vignetting around the side or whatever that's called, where it's like the sides are out of focus and stuff. Uh, that like the one shot of the, of the, the train robbery only being lit by lanterns and candles and shit is just fucking amazing. So cool. There's the one shot where they're, uh, it's just like a sort of static camera on the tracks as the train is like trying to break and the train like hits the camera. Like it's like, it's out of dolly thing. Oh yeah. Yeah. Pushes the camera. It was like, this is the coolest shit. I was like, ah, Roger Deacon's the goat.

[00:25:08] Um, so I don't know, but I have, and also, but I haven't watched, uh, there will be blood in a long time. So I don't remember how much the most cinematography there is going on in that movie. Yeah. I mean, that movie looks, I remember that movie looks incredible too. Obviously it's there will be blood. That's what I don't think I've actually watched. There will be blood since 2007, 2008, like since then. So I'm definitely due for a rewatch. I'm thinking I might try to do a PTA rewatch before his new movie comes out, uh, which is theoretically sometime this year. We'll see. We'll see how that actually happens.

[00:25:37] We talked about that in our 2024 year interview episode. Yes. Listen to hour four of that episode to find out. Just to know what we're talking about. But yeah, no, that's what I think every PTA movie he's director. I'm, I'm very into. I love Paul Thomas Anderson's movies. I think I've only seen each one of his movies one time. Like I don't think I've ever gone back and rewatched any of his films. Uh, even though I really, really love a lot of them. Uh, so I, I, I think I'm due for just a big PTA rewatch. Like it's time to, it's, it's relatively easy to do. He only has like eight or nine movies.

[00:26:06] So I get through it pretty quickly, but yeah, no, it's, it's been a while. And it's been a minute since I've seen the early blood. Uh, the master is one that I haven't rewatched in a long time. Again, I've only seen it the one time in theaters. Phantom threat. I'd love to give a rewatch to, uh, even the gross pizza, which is the most recent one. Like that felt like when I was watching it, like, oh, when I watch it a second time, this will be like a favorite movie of mine. Like this is going to be great. So yeah, having to, uh, I'm maybe going to do that this year. We'll see what happens. Andrew Dominic rewatch would be even shorter because there's only four movies and only three of them would be worth. Yeah.

[00:26:35] I remember being pretty excited for that movie and then just a blonde, I mean, uh, and then just like the initial reactions to it and everything. I was just like, I'm good. Like, I don't need to submit myself to that. I was also excited for that one. And I was fully like when the reviews started coming out and they were almost like universally negative. Um, but there were like a couple of positive reviews in there and I was kind of like, I bet this is a secret masterpiece. Like I bet when I watch it, I'm going to be like this fucking rules. And then I watched blonde and man, I did not have that reaction.

[00:27:06] I, uh, really disliked that movie, uh, which is unfortunate, but I do think, uh, Jesse James and killing them softly are both great. And I do want to watch chopper at some point because yeah, that's supposed to be awesome too. Yeah. Yeah. I think killing them softly is the movie that made me learn Richard Jenkins's name. That would track. I think, um, it was that movie. And then cabin in the woods, I think was that same year. Yeah. Around the same time. So I think because I knew him from cabin in the woods, it's like, Oh, that guy. And then I had learned Richard Jenkins's name as a result. Yeah. It's funny how that works. Yeah. So he's always that guy from killing them softly.

[00:27:37] Yeah. Well, he's, he's just, he's earned Richard Jenkins status now. Oh yeah. When I see him, I'm like, Oh, Richard Jenkins. That's like when I was like, Oh, David straight there, straight there from the river wild. Right. That's what I'm thinking. You know? Uh, all right. Any other thoughts about, uh, assassination of Jesse James by the coward before it might, before we move on into the other movie. Um, this movie does get dangerously close. To a lot of what we talked about in the urine review episode of the, like, I kind of just need to stare at a wall for a minute. Yeah. Uh, territory doesn't quite get there, but it's pretty close.

[00:28:07] But you've stared at a wall, you get shot in the back of the head. That's exactly. I got to dust that painting, you know? Uh, yeah, fair enough. I will, I will say the next movie almost made me into staring towards the end. That's how they're thematically linked. Yes. Uh, so yeah, let's get into it. So that was the assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford. And now it's time to talk about the movie that Mike D made me watch, which is 1968's The Great Silence.

[00:28:52] That's it.

[00:30:18] All right. In the outside man. And, uh, the other one, the assassination. And then of course, Klaus Kinski is also in this movie too. Yes. All right. So Mike D, why did you want to make me watch The Great Silence? Um, so it wasn't really anything that deep necessarily. It was just, you had already finished your list of what you were making me watch this year. And we were getting to the end. Then I was like, of 2024. Yeah. And I was like, oh shit, I need to figure out what I'm going to make you watch this year. Maybe I shouldn't just do like all horror movies or whatever.

[00:30:46] Like I did the last six months of 2024. Right. Uh, I think I might've done that again though, at the end of 2025. Once, once you get to October, you're like, wow, that's horror movie season. You gotta, you gotta do it. Yeah. Now there's no rules. Yeah. Um, and I was like, what's sort of a wintry movie? I don't know. Great Silence. Uh, and I knew you hadn't seen it and we had talked about it maybe in passing recently. Uh, so it was, uh, on, on my mind. So, uh, and it seemed like something that you would enjoy. I know you're a movie lover. So I was like, what about a great movie?

[00:31:15] You know, just 10 years into the podcast. It's like, oh, I think you're a movie lover. I think you like, do you like movies? Uh, yeah, no, I had never seen The Great Silence. Uh, it had been on my radar for a while. I think actually you were the first person I knew who watched it or at least who told me about it. Like, cause I, did you, you watched it a few years back? Like you. Yeah, probably after, honestly, once upon a time in Hollywood, I sort of was like, oh yeah, spaghetti westerns. I should watch, let me get into those a little bit. Right. Which I think this director, Sergio Corbucci, who also directed Django, uh, is name dropped

[00:31:45] in that movie as the second best director of spaghetti westerns, uh, of the time period. Right. I think he goes and makes, uh, uh, uh, some movies for Corbucci in. Right. In that movie. Yeah. In that like Al Pacino segment or whatever. Right. Um, so yeah, I was sort of put that on my radar. Uh, and I watched it a few years ago, so I figured you would like it. So I hope you liked it. Yes. No, I did. Uh, yeah, this was, this has been on my radar for a while. You watched a while back. I remember it was in the criterion collection, like, uh, the criterion channel, like snowy westerns collection they did. Yes. Yes.

[00:32:14] Um, which also included ravenous, which you also made me watch for Mike makes Mike watch. I think that was this time last year. Yeah. Uh, right around then. And yeah, so it had been on my radar for a while. I wanted to watch it, just hadn't gotten around to it and yeah, really enjoyed it. Uh, I think it's a really terrific spaghetti western. I, I think this is the only Corbucci film I've seen because I actually have not watched, uh, Django yet. Uh, that's one that I've been meaning to watch since Django Unchained came out and just haven't gotten around to it. So it's been on the list, but, uh, yeah, no, really, really dug this.

[00:32:43] I was excited to see, uh, Jean-Louis Trindon-Dion. I did not know he was in this movie and, uh, that was cool to see him from the Roy Scheider episodes. I knew Klaus Kinski was in this and I thought that Klaus Kinski was the main character. Like I, I, like just knowing, like I knew the movie, I knew Klaus Kinski was in it. It's like, Oh, he must be the name. And he's the star of the movie. He's the, he's the villain, uh, in this movie. And he is such a bastard in this movie. He's so good. He's a monster. Yes. He's the worst. Um, but yeah, Jean-Louis Trindon-Dion plays this guy, uh, who goes by the name of silence.

[00:33:12] I was going to say you thought Klaus Kinski was the titular silence, which is weird to say about this movie, but it works. But yeah, this guy's named silence. Uh, and he, uh, calls himself that because he cannot speak. Uh, and so everybody just calls him silence or silencio. The version I watched was the Italian. It was subtitled, um, which I was expecting an English dub just because that's how most spaghetti Westerns operated back in the day. But yeah, this was totally a English subtitles with Italian language. Um, but yeah. And so he goes by silence. People call him that.

[00:33:40] And he has like this big, like scar on his throat from when somebody has slashed his throat and he lost his ability to speak. And he's sort of a bounty hunter. He's not a bounty hunter. He kind of operates in the principle where like, if people are trying to kill him, he will kill them. And he's the fastest gun on the West. Yeah. Uh, that one scene when he shows the lady, like how fast he can shoot, it's just like, Ooh, like smooth. Yeah. So good. So he only kills in self-defense, but at the same time, Klaus Kinski is a bounty hunter and he and the other bounty hunters in town are just causing chaos left and right.

[00:34:11] Uh, they are, they are killing people, uh, with no regard for the consequences. They're killing people, uh, who anybody who they think they can get a bounty for. They're going to kill them. Right. Yes. Yeah. They know there's no, or a lot of dead or alive. It's, it's just dead. Yes. Uh, and so yeah, really enjoyed this movie. I mean, we mentioned, uh, once upon a time in Hollywood already. However, I was watching the movie and it was amazing to me watching it. Uh, how much of this movie, uh, Tarantino lifted for the hateful eight. Yes. Yep. Like just straight up.

[00:34:39] And I guess Django unchained two to a lesser extent, but like truly there's this moment in the movie where several people, I think silence and Klaus Kinski and like the new sheriff in town all have to gather into the stagecoach that's going through the, uh, like going through this like snow storm and there's bodies on top of the stagecoach. And this is straight out of the hateful eight. Like this is exactly the same setup as that movie, uh, which was really funny to see. Uh, and there's even a moment where they have to move the bodies, which they had to do in the hateful eight also.

[00:35:07] Uh, uh, so yeah, I really enjoyed that. And kind of just seeing that influence of it was cool. Uh, the score for many of Morricone is, uh, maybe unbelievable. And it was one of those things where when the movie started and I heard the music, I didn't know for sure that it was any of Morricone score, but I was like, this is an Italian movie from 1968 and it's a Western. I bet any of Morricone score for this. I bet that's him. And sure enough, uh, yeah, it was Morricone and yeah, the score for this is fantastic.

[00:35:34] Uh, yeah, no, I had a really good time with the great silence, which, uh, kind of like we said before is not like a fun movie necessarily, but it's a cool one. Um, and you're kind of into it and like you're into it on like an action picture level. It's a great Western. It's a, some really great shootouts that are happening throughout the movie. I was not prepared for how the movie ends. Okay. You need to explain how the movie ends. Cause I don't remember. Okay. So the movie ends. So basically the, uh, Klaus Kinsey has trapped a bunch of hostages like with his band of people. Right.

[00:36:03] And, uh, and he sends out a telegram or whatever. And, uh, the woman that, uh, silence has fallen in love with tells him about it and he decides to go. Uh, and she's like, no, it's going to be a trap. Uh, and he's like, but he's going to go anyway. And so the entire time I'm like, all right, how's silence going to get out of this one? You know, how's he going to get out of this jam? And he goes there and, uh, you know, he's silence is standing outside of the saloon. Klaus Kinski is standing in the doorway. Somebody shoots, uh, silence his hand. And so he can't fire his gun as well.

[00:36:31] And then he shoots his other hand and then silence is killed. Like he just, he gets shot and killed. And then the woman that silence has fallen in love with, like runs up to him, like his fallen body. And then they shoot her and she dies. Okay. And then all the hostages are like, Oh no, what have they done? Then the bounty hunters kill all the hostages. That's right. I do remember them killing like a building full of people, right? Yes. Yeah. They just kill everyone in the building and then they leave and the credits start to roll. Fuck.

[00:36:58] There's like, there's like a little like thing, um, like a message being like, Oh yes, bounty hunting continued for some time, but then there was widespread public condemnation and then it stopped. Uh, yeah. And then that's, that's it. The movie just ends there, uh, with your hero and the woman he loves. And all the hostages taken just dead. Uh, and I was, uh, like literally like shouting no, uh, at my TV, which, uh, yeah, it was not a reaction I expected to have, uh, at the end of the great silence.

[00:37:26] I was expecting, you know, uh, something more along the lines of like good, the bad and the ugly or whatever, where it's like, Oh yes. It's like, there's, this feels triumphant at the end, you know, like that kind of thing. Didn't get that with great silence. Uh, it's a very, very bleak movie. Yeah. Those Italians are fucked up, you know, basically. That's the problem. That's it. But I was doing some research about it and apparently there were other endings that were shot for the movie, including a happier ending, uh, where silence lives at the end and then

[00:37:54] a more ambiguous ending where you're not really sure whether he lives or dies. Um, and that was because like the producers were kind of saying to Corbucci, like this is too bleak. Like, I guess they wanted to like put it out around Christmas time. They wanted to have, you know, a kind of seasonal appeal. Yeah. And, uh, so they did shoot other endings, but, uh, they did ultimately put this one in there. Uh, and yeah, I mean, I got to credit the balls for that. This, this movie ends on a really, really down note in a way I wasn't expecting.

[00:38:22] Uh, but in a way that I did find welcome. Like I liked the ending of this movie quite a bit, the more I sat with it because it is just like, uh, I don't know. You don't see how you don't see Westerns end like this that often. True. That's a good point. Yeah. Westerns in particular, I think. Yeah. Or, uh, usually the, you know, the, the guy in the black hat and the guy in the white hat, you know, in America at least. Right. Uh, and all that stuff. So yeah, they're just, uh, just bleak on sort of what we talked about a lot, um, in the earlier portion of the shider season, uh, right.

[00:38:48] In the seventies movies in particular in America, it's like, God damn, can't somebody just win for one kind of thing. And so here that is in great sound. Yes, absolutely. And I think that's also part of the kind of revisionist Western sort of thing here where you do get that with some, some of these more like, you know, newer Westerns of the sixties and seventies. Um, and you get that with like unforgiven and things like that, um, where it's like, you know, maybe the hero wins, but what does that victory even mean? You know, at what cost? At what cost? Uh, and so, uh, yeah, no, this movie, uh, really left an impact.

[00:39:18] I really loved, I like was shocked by the ending, but ultimately really loved it. And it was very cool to see, uh, like how it like watching it, you can be like, you can see the imprint it left on Quentin Tarantino, uh, while watching the movie, uh, which is pretty fun to watch. Yeah. I remember that. I think it's the same scene actually that scene when he's showing the woman how fast he can shoot when he, um, like the reveal that the like wooden holster that he keeps the pistol in is actually the stock that he like, like slides on and he can aim even better or

[00:39:47] shoot even faster or whatever it is. It's just like, yes, this is awesome. Only for that to all be for naught. Yes. But yeah, but there's other scenes throughout the movie and there's the moment where, um, so at this point, Klaus Kinski has been like kind of terrorizing people throughout the, throughout the film. And there's a moment where they're all trapped in an inn together, much like in the hateful eight. Yeah. And silence is trying to go to Klaus Kinski into drawing on him and Klaus Kinski like understands his deal. Whereas like, he's not going to shoot at him unless I shoot at him first and he'll probably

[00:40:17] kill me as a result. But so like Klaus Kinski is like taking a drink and silence like throws his cigarette in the, in the drink as he's doing it or his cigar. And so Klaus Kinski like gets up and punches him in the face, but he's not drawn his gun. Uh, and so it's just like this thing where like he, he sort of has power over silence cause he knows that like, if I draw my gun, he'll shoot at me. But if I don't, he won't. So here I go. He's got a, he's got a code. He's got a code and he knows how to like manipulate that code. Uh, which is interesting with the movies, baby. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

[00:40:46] Any other thoughts about Great Silence, Mike? Um, anything that you wanted to mention? I know you didn't get the chance to rewatch it. Yeah. I didn't get the chance to rewatch it. So I don't remember a ton. So not really. I'm just glad that, uh, glad you liked it. It's nice to get a win. Yes. Uh, and, uh, and maybe, maybe, maybe some more sometime. I don't know. Maybe, maybe, maybe some more like snowy Westerns or Western, snowy Westerns or spaghetti Westerns, but we already have our lists set up. So I don't know. That's true. I can't really, can't be changing stuff now. That would be anarchy.

[00:41:14] Unless, like what happened last year, uh, somebody decides to pay us money to review one of the movies. Yes. Just by chance. That we had already planned out. Uh, in which case, yeah, we'll do that and we'll replace one of that movie with something else. Exactly. I think I continued the Western theme. I think next month, if I remember correctly, it's, uh, uh, Extreme Prejudice by Walter Hill. Oh, is that next month? That's exciting. I think that's next month. Okay. I'm excited. Uh, that's one that's, uh, that made your discoveries list this past year, uh, which, uh, again, you can tune into our 2024 year interview episode.

[00:41:44] You can check that out and hear about it, but that's one I've been wanting to watch for a while since you've been talking about it. I think the one I'm making you watch, uh, is nobody, uh, the, uh, Bob Odenkirk action film from, uh, 2021, uh, which is a movie I really liked and nobody too. Uh, the reason I'm making you watch that one is because nobody too is coming out later this year. Uh, and it's directed by your boy, Timo Jihanto. So, so you got to catch up on the first one to, uh, friend of the show. Yeah. Um, so I was wrong. It's a terror in a Texas town is actually the next month. Gotcha. Uh, which I'm excited for that one too.

[00:42:13] Uh, another one of those great titles like the assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford. Yeah. We love a, uh, uh, Sterling Hayden joint, you know? Yes, absolutely. All right. Uh, yeah. Any, okay. So the great silence and the assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford. Uh, and yeah, this, this ended up being a great deal of feature, like both snowy Westerns that have incredibly bleak endings. Hell yeah. We did it. Yeah. A much better double feature than like kill list and in the apocalypse, you know, sometimes

[00:42:42] we, uh, maybe should plan these together, but no, it's more fun. It's, it's fun when we stumble upon it, you know? Yeah, exactly. All right. Any other thoughts about either of these movies before we start wrapping this episode up? No, not, not anything in particular other than, uh, two great movies and I'm glad, you know, so it's a follow up on our sort of discussion, uh, from the year in review episode of like the power of movies. Look at cinema. We did it. Yes. We love this. Absolutely. All right. Uh, in that case, Mike, where are we going to find you online this week?

[00:43:11] You can find me at MD film blog on Twitter and letterboxd and blue sky. And if you would like to donate support the show, you could do that at our Kofi page, which is Kofi.com slash Mike and Mike pods, where you can donate $50 and pick a topic for this very podcast. Mike and Mike go to the movies here on the bonus apps, uh, pay 50 bucks and we'll, we'll do it. We'll do it. We'll do it. Uh, and if you want, yeah, we don't, we double dog dare you. And if you want merch, we have merch available on our red bubble, which is Mike and Mike pods dot red bubble.com. That's right. You can find me online at M Smith film blog on Twitter and blue sky.

[00:43:40] Mike Smith film a letterbox radio, Mike sandwich on Instagram. Uh, thank you so much for listening to Mike. Mike go to the movies. I'm Mike Smith. It's my decretio. Don't forget to rate and review the show on Apple podcasts or any other podcast app. And if you want to contact us, you can tweet at us at Mike and Mike pod. You can find the rest of our podcast and rapture press alongside many other podcasts, but all kinds of comic books and movie news and all that good stuff. Uh, you can check out the main podcast, the complete works to keep up with all of our Roy Scheider movies. And that's going to be the end of this week's episode of Mike and Mike go to the movies. We will see you on the other side.