Prisoners (2013) / Cloak & Dagger (1984)

[00:00:02] Let's get together, talk about the movies that we saw this week. We'll have discussions, talk film news, we'll laugh a lot and act like geeks. Sometimes we'll have a guest or two, sometimes it's just the two of us. Let's crack some jokes and tell some folks to come along and hang with us! I can't... Chosen wisely.

[00:00:28] You know the most important thing your granddad ever taught me? Be ready. Hurricane, flood, whatever it ends up being. No more food gets delivered to the grocery stores, gas stations dry up, people just turn on each other and all of a sudden all this ends between you and you and you. And being dead is Mike and Mike out of the movies. I'm Mike Smith and joining me as always is a guy who knows that Dabney Coleman is first rate. Mike D'Gruccio. How'd you do it, Mike?

[00:00:55] I'm doing great. I'm excited for another Mike Makes Mike Watch today. It's always fun when we do these episodes. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, today is a Mike Makes Mike Watch episode in which I make Mike D watch something that he's never seen before and he makes me do the same. He makes me watch something I've never seen before and Mike D got to watch me scramble to put together an opening intro for this podcast because I had forgotten to do it. Didn't have time. Yeah, I got a peek behind the Mike Smith curtain after 10 years. I saw the process being made, how it all happens.

[00:01:26] I had never done it live before Mike D ever in the past. Yeah. I'm sure it must have happened at some point. It's happened for sure. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, of course, my first one is a reference to the movie you made me watch. Second one is sort of a reference to the movie that I made you watch, Dabney Coleman being first rate, which is more of a reference to the 80s all over podcast that Drew McQueen and Scott Weinberg used to host back in the day. I was wondering, I was like, that doesn't sound like a quote from the movie that Dabney Coleman's in.

[00:01:52] Right. No, it was. That's true. No, it was anytime they talked about a movie with Dabney Coleman, they would play a clip of somebody. I don't even know who where the clip originated from, but it was just somebody going Dabney Coleman is first rate. Like, and so whenever I see something with Dabney Coleman, that's my first thought now. And you know what? He is. He is first rate. He is always the best. But yeah, so we're doing it. It makes Mike watch. Mike D's making me watch something I've never seen. I'm doing the same and interesting double feature. I think today, Mike, I think we got an interesting pairing.

[00:02:22] Yeah, yeah. I guess there is some, some thematic connective tissue with the, you know, fathers and sons and stuff. Sure. Fathers and sons and missing persons maybe. Is there a missing? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, I think, you know, another classic Mike and Mike where we don't coordinate these things and sometimes we end up with silly stuff. Yes. Sometimes they connect a little bit. And so today, Mike D is making me watch. Really, this is like Denny Villeneuve's like breakout film, I feel like.

[00:02:48] Yeah. You know, certainly the one that kind of gained him a lot more attention was a pretty big hit when it came out. For some reason, I never saw it. And that is Prisoners from 2013 featuring Hugh Jackman, Jake Gyllenhaal and more. Meanwhile, I am making Mike D watch a very zippy fun kids adventure movie from the 80s called Cloak and Dagger from 1984.

[00:03:08] Yeah. Yeah. I had heard about this movie mostly when I believe Vinegar Syndrome put out a 4K of it in the last year or two or something like that. Yeah. And it was like, oh, cool. Like, yeah, I think maybe I have heard of this movie. Somehow I had never seen it before. So I was excited for an excuse to check it out. Yeah, absolutely. So we've been talking about both of these movies today, Mike D, but which one would you like to talk about first? I think probably Prisoners because if you were to watch these together, you definitely don't want to end on Prisoners.

[00:03:40] Yeah, I think it's probably for the best. All right, let's do it. Let's it's time for a Mike makes Mike watch. I hope they choose right. Mike's watching Mike's movie especially.

[00:04:11] You're just getting over a cold. Where are sisters? I can't find them. Anna? Joy? I checked the entire house. They're not here. They weren't outside. It's starting to rain, I think. There's this RV and they were playing on it. There was there. We thought there was someone inside. You wait here. Let me go.

[00:04:41] I couldn't find them. 911. Detective Loki. Do you have children, detective? I'm going to find your daughters. All right. That was in the trailer for Prisoners, the film from 2013, directed by Denis Villeneuve and starring people like Hugh Jackman, Jake Gyllenhaal, Viola Davis, Maria Bello, not my Evelyn, but pretty good in this movie. Terrence Howard, Melissa Leo and Paul Dano, among others. Yeah. Remember Terrence Howard? Yeah. Terrence. Yeah. He is.

[00:05:10] I did not know that he was going to be in Prisoners, actually, because he was he was poised to be a pretty big star, I think. I mean, you know, was a pretty notable star in the 2000s and, of course, was War Machine in the original Iron Man. He was he was roadie in Iron Man. And then the story goes that he asked for more money than Robert Downey Jr. And then they got he got recast. And now Don Cheadle has played that role in 10 movies. And Terrence Howard has not. Although he was on Empire for a while, which was a pretty big show. So I think that's right.

[00:05:39] He had a pretty good run there. Yeah, I think he like went insane, though. I think something something weird happened with that guy. That is possible. I have not kept up with that. Although going a quick glance is Wikipedia page. If you got a personal life, there are four subsections. First one is marriages. Normal. Second one is educational claims. A little less normal. Third one, pseudoscientific theories. Less normal. And then fourth one is legal issues. Yeah, there it is. That's the one you never want to. Controversies or legal issues you never want to see. Yeah.

[00:06:11] Absolutely. So Prisoners came out in 2013. Why, Mike D, did you want to make me watch this film? Well, there's a little bit of a journey with this film on our list, if you remember. Okay. It was originally going to be Blue Streak this month. The Martin Lawrence and Luke Wilson comedy. Oh, right. Which I felt was too similar to old school. The Luke Wilson comedy. Yes. You didn't want to do too many Luke Wilson comedies in a row. Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:41] Which I do still recommend Blue Streak. I haven't watched it in 10, 15 years or more. But it's a pretty great premise where Martin Lawrence is a jewel thief. Like a diamond heist has gone off at the beginning. And he's surrounded. He's about to be arrested. And he's at a construction site. Like it's where he's hiding. Yeah. So he stashes the diamond in this construction site. And then gets arrested. And gets out of jail years later. And wouldn't you know it. That was a police station under construction.

[00:07:09] So in order to get back in to get his diamond, he fakes being a cop. And through comedy shenanigans ends up assigned as Luke Wilson's partner. And comedy stuff ensues. So I remember really liking it. But I felt like that would be too close to old school. So we were like both scrolling. This was a collaborative pic, I think. We were like scrolling through lists and stuff. And you were like listing. Telling me movies you had never seen before. I think we were going through my like the letterbox top 250 or whatever. Yeah. And like just or the IMDb top 250.

[00:07:39] Whatever it was. And like I have seen most of the movies on that list. So it was just like what's not faded? What can be pulled out of here? And this was the movie. Yeah. I remember it was like Ugetsu. And like a bunch of like weird Japanese movies. Which I did watch Ugetsu. Oh, you did? I was like, oh, Prisoners. Great. So yeah. This I think I think Sicario was actually probably the first movie I like saw and knew was a Denny Villeneuve movie. Sure.

[00:08:08] I was like, holy shit. This is my new favorite guy. Let me go back and watch everything. Yeah. So I still haven't seen Incendies. But I've seen I think almost everything else. So yeah, the prisoners literally love this movie. And yeah, that's why that's sort of how we ended up here with this pick on this episode. Yeah, absolutely. So I have seen Incendies. And that was definitely, I believe that was nominated for the Oscar for best foreign language film at the time. So that gained some traction then. But this was his first English language film. Because then he is Canadian. Right.

[00:08:38] And French Canadian. So his first few films were French Canadian films. And so he made a movie called August 32nd on Earth. He made Maelstrom. But then I think more like notably, it was Polytechnique and Incendies were like the two like movies that kind of put him on the map there. And that led him to getting his English language stuff and prisoners being the first one of those. It was really it was prisoners and enemy. Right. Yeah. Remember enemy? Yeah. And so enemy was actually my first Denny Villeneuve movie. Okay. Which is a weird one for you to be your first.

[00:09:08] I think I have always wanted to go back and rewatch enemy because I was kind of baffled by it at the time. I did like it, but I was like, this is weird. But the only reason I ended up seeing it was because that was when I was in college. That was 2013, 2014, I think. And, you know, it came out, I think, a few months after prisoners did. And I had not seen prisoners. And I remember like, you know, I seen the trailer for it, thinking it looked pretty good, hearing great things when it came out. But I was in college.

[00:09:34] And even though I was seeing a lot of movies at the time because I was me and was seeing a lot of movies, still couldn't see everything. Yeah. You know, and even then, like, you know, I was paying for every movie that I went to go see. I didn't, there was no Stubbs A-list, you know, back in the day. That's the pre-movie pass days. So my movie going was mostly like, I would go like once a weekend and I would try to fit, I would often do double features. And my double features would usually be, I would pay for one movie and then hop into another theater and go watch the other thing.

[00:10:00] I think my most famous double feature was I went to go see 12 Years a Slave and then Thor The Dark World right after. Psychotic. Yeah, absolutely. All that is to say, so I saw Enemy actually when I first started doing stuff for Filmbook back in the day. So for, you know, deep podcast lore, way back before we had Mike McGon to the movies and The Complete Works, I was doing stuff for Filmbook.

[00:10:25] And eventually me and Mike D started Filmbookcast, which was our original version of the podcast on filmbook.com. But Filmbook would send me to a couple of things in the city here and there. And so they sent me to New York Comic Con and the first, you know, like few months that I worked there, they were like, hey, you know, we got some press greetings in the city that you can go to if you want. And, you know, me being like a, you know, 20 year old, like, I think I had just turned 20 or 21. I was like, oh yeah, hell yeah, I'd love to go to a press screening in the city and do all that and all that stuff, which is a great experience.

[00:10:53] And I went and did a double feature press screenings because the thing was, it was like, I had to take the train to the city. Like I was in, you know, three hours away. Yeah. Yeah. So I had to take the train into the city and get over there. And it was a real hassle to do it. And also I had to pay for all my own stuff. Like they weren't paying for my train ride or anything. They were just like, you're getting this in the movie free and that's it. And it's like, okay, yeah, great deal. I'm in. And then, and then you have to do stuff for us, like write a review and all that. It's like, great. Yeah, I'm all about it.

[00:11:17] And so I went and did a double feature press screening day and I did the Grand Budapest Hotel and which was the first one. And then the second one was Enemy. Wow. And so that's how I saw Enemy for the first time. And Grand Budapest, I was like all about, like I loved that movie, obviously. Enemy, I was a little more reserved on, but I really liked the concept behind it. It had double Jake Gyllenhaals and given like wild performances and ends on a giant spider. And then the movie just like cuts to black. And have you seen Enemy? You've seen this movie, right?

[00:11:46] I actually haven't now that I'm thinking about it. Oh, well, I just spoiled Enemy. No, I knew that it had the giant spider. That's the poster, I think. I think it is, yeah. Yeah. So I knew about that, but and the double performance and all that stuff. Yeah, that is actually one of my favorite like meme tweets is like, it's like Donald Trump describing the plot of Enemy. Have you seen this? I don't know. It's like Trump and it's like, and so there's two Jake Gyllenhaals and suddenly there's this giant spider and all that stuff. And a reporter's like, and to be clear, this is a movie you saw. And it's like, well, I don't know.

[00:12:15] Oh, but so Enemy came out and, you know, it was a very like limited release. Like Prisoners was a pretty big hit from what I remember. And Enemy was like much smaller scale indie movie. Didn't play near me. Like didn't didn't end up playing in Albany or anything like that. Yeah. Then a year later, Sicario comes out and it's like, oh, baby, we're cooking. We're cooking. We're in. We got something here. And it is that run of like, OK, it's Sicario. It's Arrival. It's Blade Runner 2049.

[00:12:44] Like these movies like back to back to back all really good. And it kind of like seems to indicate like a new directorial voice in cinema. And I think it did. You know, and obviously he's been, you know, deep in the Dune world for the last several years. Yeah. Which on the one hand, I think is great because his Dunes are very good. I like Dune and Dune Part 2 and I'm very excited for Dune Part 3. On the other hand, I kind of want more movies like Sicario and Arrival. Right. You know? Yeah. That'd be great. Yeah. I mean, I do. I do love all of his time on Arrakis.

[00:13:14] That's very nice. Yeah. But yeah, those other movies are tentpole movies for me. Yeah, absolutely. Like you were obviously huge on those movies. And Blade Runner 2049 is a movie that I actually haven't seen since it came out. But I remember loving it. And at the time being like, I think I maybe like it more than the original Blade Runner. Like, is that my hot take? And, you know, it's been so long since I've seen it. I don't I can't back up that claim anymore. I really need to rewatch both. And I do plan on rewatching both before Blade Runner 2099 comes out.

[00:13:42] The Michelle Yeoh starring one that we have to talk about. Yeah. The TV series on Amazon. But all that is to say, for some reason, I never got around to watching Prisoners. I don't know why. I liked Danny Villeneuve a lot. I liked all his movies. I was excited for them. And I never went back and watched Prisoners. So I'm glad that you finally made me pull the trigger on this one. There it is. You're welcome. It all happened for a reason. Yes. And it's very good. No, I liked it. It's great. It is good. It is bleak. Yeah, it is.

[00:14:09] It's often a very difficult movie, but I did really enjoy it. I was pretty gripped by it. It is two and a half hours long. And I do think maybe it could have been two. I think for me, the middle stretch gets a little repetitive is kind of my main issue with Prisoners, which was what keeps this from being like, like when watching Prisoners, I was really thinking of like seven a lot. Yeah. You know, movie with a similar tone, similar vibe, all that stuff. But seven, I think is a superior movie, partially because I think once and we're going full spoilers for Prisoners here, obviously.

[00:14:39] But once the inciting incident happens and like, you know, the girls have gone missing and they're trying to figure it out. Paul Dano is the suspect. And once Hugh Jackman captures Paul Dano and is torturing him for like the back half of the movie, that to me is the moment where I'm like, I get it. I'm good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think it's fine for like 10 minutes or whatever. And when he's bringing in Terrence Howard and Viola Davis and all that stuff and, you know, everything's like well acted and it's, you know, it's a good turn for the movie to take, I think. But it just it hits that note a lot.

[00:15:09] And like it just is a lot of like Hugh Jackman coming back downstairs and being like, tell me where they are. And he's like, I don't know anything. And yeah, that's basically it. You know, I think I think you're right. I think I forgot this movie is two and a half hours long. But yeah, I think like one 20 to 30 minute acts of that would have been enough instead of an hour long acts of that would have been that because I don't know. I mean, the plot has twisty turny stuff going on.

[00:15:34] But so like I think that's important that he eventually breaks Paul Dano's character a little bit or I think that important that Paul Dano's character does break eventually a little bit. But like if we don't have to see every everything, you know, and then when it gets into the sort of the conspiracy back half, you know, back last act stuff, it's like so fast. I feel like once the Desmelsian stuff shows up. Yeah. Which I don't know if this was the first movie. I mean, obviously Dark Knight and stuff. He's in that.

[00:16:04] And he's in a bunch of other things. The first time you like noted that it was David Desmelsian, I guess. And knew that name and knew who he was or like learned who he was from this movie. It was like, oh, because Dark Knight, he's just like the guy who's like pretending to be the Joker or like is is sort of like a decoy Joker for one. Yeah, he's got the scars in the in the parade. Yeah. The funeral parade with the when they when they try to shoot Dent or something like that, I think. Yeah. In the Dark Knight. But yeah, it's like one of the first movies and maybe it was around when what was Matt Gorley's podcast?

[00:16:34] I was there too. I was there too. Yeah. He had a great he has a great episode with David Desmelsian. I don't really remember the timeline of all when I watched this and that. So that might have been when I like learned who he was and then saw this. I was like, oh shit, that's that guy. Um, so anyway, once that section kicks off, you're like, oh man, let's go pedal to the metal. And then it doesn't a little bit. You know, it's still it's still got a lot left of the movie slash we're spending a lot of time with with Hugh Jackman still. And it's like, oh man, I want to be in the investigation stuff.

[00:17:03] I want to be unraveling this mystery. What's going on? Because I think that is all really compelling. That whole maze stuff. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's just like that middle with the torturing and Paul Dano like drags it down a little bit for me, but everything surrounding it, it's cooking. Uh, it does great. Like the entire setup of the mystery, you know, it does a good job of establishing the family dynamics and like how Hugh Jackman is with his kids and all that stuff in the beginning. And you know how close these two families are. And then the two girls go missing and you get a good sense of like the family's panic and the urgency and all of that stuff.

[00:17:32] And then Jake Gyllenhaal enters the picture as this pretty like unflappable cop, uh, when he enters it and he's like, got a reputation as being like, I've solved every case that I've ever been assigned like that, that kind of thing. So, you know, he's not used to not, uh, succeeding in what he's doing. Right. Um, and so the, this tape, this case is also like taking a toll on him, uh, as a result of that too. But, uh, yeah. And so the way it all kind of plays together and ultimately like how Paul Dano and Melissa

[00:17:59] Leo entered the picture and they sort of feel like a red herring at first, but it's clear that they are involved somehow, or at least Paul Dano was involved somehow. Right. Because you know, Hugh Jackman is like, it feels like Hugh Jackman's like going insane a little bit talking to Jake Gyllenhaal where he's like, but he's singing the same song that my daughters were singing and he said this shit to me and all this stuff. It's like, clearly he was involved somehow, but it's like, there's, it can't just be that, you know? I think, I think the movie does a really great job at parceling that out because yeah, there's

[00:18:28] the, there's the whole, there's all these little like moments, right? That the movie throws at you. And I think about all the time where they have to do a polygraph test, right? And they're talking to the parents, you know, Hugh Jackman and Maria Bellow and they're talking to Jake Gyllenhaal after. And he's like, well, did you give him a lie detector thing? And he's like, well, you know, lie detectors only work if you understand the questions. And it's like, damn intense. Um, but then when he, they let him out and, uh, Hugh Jackman goes to his house and, uh,

[00:18:56] Paul Dano walks the dog and he goes out and he chokes the dog out for a second, like on the leash. It's like, oh shit. Now this guy is, is smarter than he let on slash is obviously a weirdo what's happening. And then he sings the, um, the jingle bells, Batman smells. Yeah. Which they were singing when they went missing. Um, which in retrospect, now that Paul Dano is the Riddler is kind of funny. It's pretty funny. Yeah. Is this what they saw? And they were like, get that guy. Um, so yeah, like just the way they parceled that out and then, and then the slow reveal

[00:19:26] of who the guy in the church basement or church crawl space is. It's like, right. Or the corpse in the church basement. Um, just everything. Just movie is so, so bleak. And I kind of really forgot how, how much it's like, cause it's not really like misery porn, you know, like those kinds of movies. It's not like, they're not so poor and destitute and it's just about how hard their lives are and all this stuff. And it's just about the way that this kind of thing will just destroy a whole community basically. Um, yeah. And, uh, that's very intense. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:19:53] And those like final 30 minutes, uh, are, you know, that, that is when it's really like pedals to the metal. Like there's so much happening. Yeah. Uh, and so obviously, so again, we're in full spoilers for prisoners, but the, uh, the big reveal that while Paul Dano wasn't the one who is necessarily responsible, Melissa Leo is the one who's kind of been kidnapping people. And Paul Dano was like the first people that was the first one that she ever kidnapped. Right. Like he was the first child, first child that she and her husband ever abducted. And the reasoning being there, you know, insane Christians or whatever. Right.

[00:20:23] It's, it's, it's a religious thing. Yeah. Yeah. Which is fascinating. They're, they're talking about, they want to, they wage a war on God and, uh, is what they're doing. And, and so taking someone's children away, uh, will turn them, will shatter their faith basically. Like it'll turn them away from God because like if a God exists, how could this have happened? Yes. And Paul Dano was the first one they ever kidnapped, uh, and thus like sort of raised as their own in a weird way. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they, well, they, they, yeah, they like don't kill him for some reason.

[00:20:52] I don't really remember if they didn't know what they were doing yet or whatever, but they, they like damage him, you know, some kind of way. And that's why he's like really stunted and has the IQ of a 10 year old or whatever they say, even though that seems to have been like a thing he let on, uh, but, but anyway, yeah, that's the whole, the whole stick. And that's sort of what the, like, that's why the torturing thing does like eventually sort of pay off. Cause he says, I'm not Alex, right. Which is the name that he's been going by. Right. He eventually cracks and remember like, and says that, but it's like, yeah, it takes a long time to get there. Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:21:22] But yeah. So Melissa Leo was like kind of the, uh, the mastermind behind the whole thing. The reveal at the end of the corpse in the basement was her husband's time who they've alluded to leaving the family when she was, when they were much younger and all that. And so that's going on. But, uh, yeah, when Hugh Jackman like rushes over there, when he realizes that one, one of the kids has escaped, but it's not his daughter, it's a daughter. And he's like trying to get the information from the hospital. And she says something like you were there and it all like clicks into place for him.

[00:21:49] And he just rushes off, uh, instead of telling Jake Gyllenhaal, which would have been the logical thing to do, but he's not being bound by logic at this moment. It's pure emotion. Uh, and he's rushing over to, uh, Melissa Leo's house. Uh, and she knows that he knows, uh, and like forces him to, you know, take the drug juice or whatever that, uh, you know, all that ends, you know, it is like forcing him at gunpoint to go down into the hole and all that is it's incredibly tense. It's really good.

[00:22:16] Um, and, uh, ultimately leads to the, uh, the final moment of the movie where Jake Gyllenhaal is, you know, like at this point now, Hugh Jackman has gone missing, right? But like they, they've rescued the daughters, like they're, they're okay. And they don't know where Hugh Jackman is. And they finally make it to, uh, you know, the house and all that stuff. And they're, the police are excavating all that stuff. And they think they're about to shut it down. And then you hear a very faint whistle in the background, um, which is Hugh Jackman who has

[00:22:42] found the whistle that, uh, the daughter had found and left behind there and all that. So yeah, no, a really fantastic, like final moment, final note to end the movie on. Yeah. Yeah. Cause the whole thing, right. You can just imagine him blowing that whistle the whole time they're there, right? Cause they have all the excavators and they have the generators and they're playing music and they have all this stuff. And that's the, the slow, like, you know, okay, we're shutting it down for the night boss as they slowly turn everything off. And it's just Jake Hillenhall is standing there in the silence, looking at the snow and you

[00:23:10] hear the faintest little like whistle thing. And he turns and looks over his shoulder and it cuts to black and it's like, holy shit. Like, wow, that's crazy. It happens a few times too. And he like dismisses it for seconds. Like I'm hearing things. Yeah. Eventually like, it seems like he's actually like realizing what's happening. What's going on. Yeah. But it is really funny. The whole like Danny Villeneuve shtick of like, but who's the real title of the movie? And it's like, that is so applicable to this movie and like, who's the real prisoner? Yeah, absolutely.

[00:23:37] I think that's kind of where it sort of stems from is like, but who is the real, uh, you know, who is really arriving? You know, who is the real Sicario? Who's the real hit man in Sicario? I mean, Blade Runner, literally, who is the real Blade Runner? You know, who's the, who's a replicant, you know, that kind of thing. So yeah, that is a interesting that like, that is a recurring thing throughout any of the his career. Mm hmm. And it's so on display here in this movie, but I think the real highlight to this movie is friend of the pod, Roger Deakins, of course.

[00:24:07] Oh my God. God. Yeah. I, you've got to mention the Deeks. Uh, he's incredible in this movie. Uh, he's incredible, he's incredible in this. Yeah. The movie looks beautiful. It looks, it looks amazing. Incredibly well shot. And, uh, as, after I finished watching it, I went and I looked up like, when was the last time Roger Deakins shot a movie? And it was four years ago. And I think that's bullshit. Wow. What was the last movie he shot? Empire of Lights, the Sam Mendes movie. Oh. Cause he, he does shoot a lot of Sam Mendes's movies. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:34] And so yeah, Empire of Light was the last one before that was 1917, which was 2019. Um, so I think he. Which is also Sam Mendes? Right there. That's also Sam Mendes joint. Yeah. But yeah, he, uh, and he won both of his Oscars for, um, Sam Mendes and Denis Villeneuve. He won for Blade Runner 2049. Right. Uh, as well. But, uh, yeah. And he shot this and Sicario and Blade Runner for, for Denis Villeneuve. Yeah. No. Roger Deakins. Unbelievable. And, uh, my letterbox review for this is like, it pisses me off that he hasn't shot a movie in four years.

[00:25:04] I don't care if he's retired or whatever. He's got to get back at it. He's still doing the podcast. I wonder. Um, oh yeah. Oh, but yeah, I think that's the key to this movie for sure is, I mean, like right down to the opening or, or not, it's not the opening, but when they, um, they find the RV in the parking lot in the rain and it's just Jake Gyllenhaal approaching in backlit by the gas station in the rain, the blue police light, like, holy shit. Everything looks fucking amazing. That's what's so interesting about Deakins as a cinematographer is that he, uh, you know,

[00:25:33] when I think of his cinematography and he is like one of the few cinematographers that like, I feel like he has his own distinct style in a weird way where it's like, Oh yeah. You're watching a movie and it's like, you can often tell that Roger Deakins shot this thing. And obviously he worked with the Coen brothers a lot and all that stuff. But I recently rewatched true grit, which is one of the most beautiful looking movies I've ever shot. I guess it's just, it's unbelievable. And I look at that and like no country for old men, which I also rewatched recently. And we watched a assassins, just James, uh, earlier this year.

[00:26:02] And those are movies with like big wide open vistas. And I think of when I think of Roger Deakins, that's the kind of thing I think of. And with prisoners, it's much more like enclosed spaces. It's a lot of darkness that he's working with. Uh, and it still looks incredible. It still looks so good. Just the, just the way he can make lights look is nuts. Um, yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Um, I think maybe that's the key to being a breakout, like in Hollywood directors is you can make some weird French Canadian movies and then you team up with Roger Deakins

[00:26:29] three times and you're like, Oh, I'll be the biggest director in Hollywood currently. You're like, yeah, okay, sure. Absolutely. You know, if, uh, if I'm going to chart a path into Hollywood, that's going to be my strategy. Yeah. Yeah. Hire Roger Deakins somehow get in contact and, uh, get him to shoot whatever movie I'm doing. Exactly. And then get him involved. Yeah. And then all the performances are great too. I mean, you mentioned David Desmalchian who is, uh, briefly in this movie too, but Hugh Jackman, I think is really incredible in, uh, in prisoners. Uh, Jake Gyllenhaal also very good in this.

[00:26:57] Viola Davis, Terrence Howard, like everybody, everybody putting in great work. Yeah. I think, I think Jake Gyllenhaal is really great in this cause he's, he's got the, so many manner, like just his character is so interesting, right? Like you said, he's, he's this, uh, you know, he solved every case he's ever been assigned and, but he's not the one that says that, right? He like kind of, he doesn't want like Maria Bellows like, Oh, your captain told me. And he like, doesn't really want to answer that. Uh, yeah. So he's not like, he's a hotshot cop. He's like really, I mean, he literally buttons his shirt to the top button of his collar, like,

[00:27:26] and doesn't, you know, and doesn't wear a tie. Uh, so he looks like that. He's got that like hard blink every that he does every now and then it's like, it's just, I don't know. It's just so many little mannerisms and touches of that. Like what is going on in this guy's brain? And he's, he's eating Thanksgiving alone at a Chinese restaurant, you know, like all that stuff. Just my chef's kiss, um, his character. I think, yeah, he's great. Uh, and this was kind of at a, in a period where like he was popping up in a lot of stuff and like, I feel like getting a lot of press for like doing a lot of weird stuff in movies. Yeah. When was Nightcrawler compared to this?

[00:27:56] Nightcrawler was the next year. Uh, Nightcrawler was 2014. And of course, Enemy is, you know, same time as well. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so I feel like, so this is sort of when I was kind of getting more on board with Jake Gyllenhaal, who I always liked, but I think was, uh, kind of positioned as like, you know, what do we do with this guy? He's a leading man, right? Like we're putting him in movies. Yeah, he's like hot. So he'll be in his leading man stuff, you know? Yeah. And so he's in like Day After Tomorrow and Prince of Persia and all that stuff. But it's clear like, oh, you know, Zodiac's like the stuff that he needs to be in, you know? Right.

[00:28:24] That's the mode that we need him working in or Brokeback Mountain, uh, you know, that kind of thing. Right. Uh, and so like Prisoners and Enemy and Nightcrawler kind of all come out and he's in, he's just doing like a lot of weird stuff. Remember him in Okja? You ever see Okja? I do. Yes. I forgot about it. It's the weirdest shit in Okja. He's crazy. That is the weirdest. Yeah. Holy shit. You know? And I remember he was like Mr. Music and the John Mulaney and the Sack Lunch Bunch around the same time and all that stuff. I feel like in the last few years he hasn't really been doing as much weird stuff or like,

[00:28:54] I don't know, has sort of slotted back into blockbuster-y guy. He's been in a couple of Guy Ritchie movies, I think. Yes. He was in The Covenants and stuff like that. He had Ambulance, which is a lot of fun. Do you like Ambulance? Yeah. You know, all that stuff. And he was Mysterio and Spider-Man and all that. And, uh, and he has the Roadhouse movie, uh, remake now. So he had that going on too. But, uh, yeah, no, this is definitely like a, like, I think this is like the most interesting period of Jake Gyllenhaal's career. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So I'm glad you really liked, uh, Prisoners because I mean, it's, you know, it's sort

[00:29:23] of the beginning of the, we're living in Villeneuve's Hollywood, basically, you know, he's making Dunes. They're the biggest movies of every year. Almost. He's making Dunes. Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, I'm excited for Dune 3. I'm looking forward to it. The trailer looks amazing. And I think it's probably gonna, we'll be probably doing our in-person episode, uh, in December, uh, you know, maybe doing both Dune Part 3 and Avengers Doomsday since they're both coming out the same day. You know, I don't, I don't know. I mean, talk about, talk about power, even from a, for a filmmaker trust from a studio

[00:29:51] to be like, we're going up against an Avengers movie and we're not moving our date. Like that's nuts. And also we're taking the IMAX screens. Yeah. Like that's crazy. That's nuts. So yeah, no, Dune 3, I'm very, very excited about. And I recently read like Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. So I'm prepared. I'm ready. You're ready. For Dune 3. But once it's done, I do hope he gets to do something. I guess James Bond is his next thing, right? He's doing a James Bond next. Oh yeah. After Dune, which, uh, will be interesting. You know, I'm curious about it.

[00:30:19] Uh, I think Denny Villeneuve is a good filmmaker, so I'm sure it'll be good. Um, I, I do think like hiring him indicates that like, it's going to be similar to the Daniel Craig era of James Bond. Yeah. Which I love the Daniel Craig era of James Bond. I think he's great, obviously, but I do kind of wish they would pivot into something else, but maybe they'll surprise us. Maybe this, maybe Denny Villeneuve wants to do a wacky Bond, you know? He'll give Guy Ritchie Bond. That'd be funny. I would actually like to see a Guy Ritchie Bond. I mean, well, the man from uncle does exist. He kind of already has.

[00:30:46] He already had that movie, but all right, that is Prisoners, uh, from 2013. Uh, and now it's time to move on into the movie that I made Mike D watch for this week. And that is 1984 is Cloak and Dagger. The greatest game Davey Osborne ever played was Cloak and Dagger. Then one day he was in the right place at the wrong time. Tell the FBI.

[00:31:17] Now, the enemies are real. The cops know dads. Why not? I'm pal. Fire! The danger is real. The bullets are real. This is starting to get good. What? Just like Cloak and Dagger. And the game has turned into anything but child's play. All right. So that was in the trailer for Cloak and Dagger, the movie directed by Richard Franklin, written by Tom Holland, but not the Spider-Man Tom Holland.

[00:31:45] The, uh, the guy who, uh, did Fright Night, which, uh, of course, Mike D made me watch a while back. Uh, and starring Henry Thomas, of course, uh, best known as one of Mike Flanagan's guys. Uh, not the kid from E.T. Best known as one of Mike Flanagan's guys. And Dabney Coleman, among others. And yeah, I think the reason I wanted to make you watch this movie, Mike, and I guess full disclosure, I did not get the chance to rewatch Cloak and Dagger, and I'm bummed about it. Uh, you know, I just didn't have the time to do it. Uh, and it's been a little while since I've seen this movie, so I will be leaning mostly on Mike to talk about it.

[00:32:15] Okay. Uh, but yeah, I liked this movie a lot. And I think the reason I wanted to make you watch it was because I am a fan of this filmmaker and the way he kind of uses the style of Alfred Hitchcock and translates it into like an eighties sort of thing. Uh, Richard Franklin is somebody who studied under Hitchcock, like in the last years of, uh, Hitchcock's life. Uh, he's an Australian filmmaker and I believe, uh, in the seventies, he like worked with Hitchcock

[00:32:42] on a couple of his movies, but like grew up like idolizing Hitchcock, you know, rear window is one of those movies that he was obsessed with and all, all that kind of stuff. Right. Yeah. I actually watched, um, I found the version I found what I think was the, the vinegar syndrome stuff. So it had the featurettes and it had, uh, it was, I watched an interview with Tom Holland and he was talking about, uh, Richard Franklin. I forget what school USC film school or something. I forget what school he was film school. He was at in LA. Okay.

[00:33:09] Um, and he got Hitchcock to come talk to his class in like 1969 or something like before that was a thing. Like when he, that's what Tom Holland was talking about that, like, you know, people established filmmakers never didn't come to film schools at that time and talk to classes. And, uh, he somehow got him to come like talk to his school and then like kind of became his like protege a little bit. Uh, yeah, yeah, exactly. So he, he became like a Hitchcock protege and I think when you watch some of his movies that translates.

[00:33:37] Uh, and so he got to direct psycho two in, uh, 1983. This is after Hitchcock died, but of course a sequel to an Alfred Hitchcock movie. I watched psycho two a couple of years ago. I think, did you watch it recently too, Mike? I feel like you might've, I did not watch it, but I, but I learned written by Tom Holland. Yes, absolutely. Who knew? So maybe we talked about this in our Fright Night episode, but, uh, psycho two does a pretty good job of like capturing the Hitchcock feeling, you know, of being very Hitchcockian, uh, you know, it's more of an eighties slasher than the first, uh, psycho is, but does a pretty

[00:34:04] good job of capturing like the tone of psycho. And I think what I really like about cloak and dagger is it really feels like, okay, this is riffing on, you know, man who wasn't there, you know, man who knew too much, uh, kind of thing. Uh, man wasn't, there was a Coen brothers movie. I meant man who knew too much. Uh, and also rear window sort of also, you know, there's a rear window element to, you know, the kind of like classic Hitchcock person caught out of time, you know, you know, mistaken identity, like, you know, things are going on. Uh, but in this case it's a kid's adventure movie.

[00:34:34] And, uh, I think that's very fun, uh, which is why I wanted to make you watch cloak and dagger. That's interesting. Do you remember the first time, like where you saw this movie? Was this like a rent from blockbuster thing or whatever, or yeah, no, it was actually, I believe I heard about it for the first time on pure cinema podcast. Uh, okay. I think it was like an early pure cinema episode. It might've been like, I might've literally been like Hitchcock adjacent episode or something like that. Like I think it might've been something like that might've been a theme or like a, uh, or like kinder trauma or kids in peril.

[00:35:04] That might be a screen drafts episode. Uh, maybe that sounds like, that sounds like screen drafts. I mean, it sounds like person also. They, they, they overlap quite frequently, but it was definitely an early and it might've actually been like an actual Hitchcock episode that they then paired movies with or something like that. Right, right, right, right. So they did something, but in any case, I'm pretty sure it was pure cinema podcast and that's, I, it was a Brian Sauer pick and it's a classic Brian Sauer movie. Classic. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. So this movie, uh, came out in the eighties. It was a double feature with the last starfighter when it came out.

[00:35:31] Uh, and yeah, no, I heard about it then. So I watched it probably in like 2017, 2018, whenever that was, uh, maybe even earlier than that. So again, it has been a while. I wish I could have had the chance to rewatch it, but blame baseball for, uh, taking over my entire life for the, for the last few weeks. But cloak and dagger, what'd you think of this movie, Mike? Um, I, yeah, I had fun with this movie. I think it's pretty cool. It's a neat little time capsule of a movie. I mean, the sort of the thing that Tom Holland talks about in that interview is that this

[00:36:00] is sort of before family adventure movies really become like a major thing. I mean, obviously, you know, star Wars and all that stuff has already existed, but he was talking about, I forget the exact timeline of the movies, but this comes out and then it's kind of like a dud. Nobody really knows. They didn't really know how to market it necessarily. You know, it's like not for, it's not a kiddie movie, but it's like not a, for adults really. Um, and then there's like, I forget what it ends up like, and then the Goonies is two years later.

[00:36:28] And then all, and then like all these other movies that are this exact genre come out, they figure out what to do with them. But right after Cloak and Taggart. So this movie was just a little bit too early. Just a little too early. Yeah. And it was interesting, uh, him talking about also what they were allowed to do to Henry Thomas's character. Um, and the only rule they had apparently was they couldn't put a gun to his head. Like, cause at the end when the old people take his, like take them hostage on the plane and the airport and stuff, that was the only thing they weren't allowed to do.

[00:36:56] And then right after this movie, they're like, okay, we can't put kids in any, and they like made this whole list of like situations and things you cannot do to children or child characters. Right. Yeah. So it's pretty funny. He's like, so he's talking about, you know, I got to get away with everything because nobody knew what to do with this movie yet, but then they figured out the genre right after us and everybody succeeded. Um, so anyway, yeah, but Cloak and Taggart is fun. And it's interesting too, because I remember the vinegar syndrome box art of it, of looking at it. I didn't buy it.

[00:37:24] Um, but it's, you know, Cloak ampersand dagger and the ampersand is like vaguely stylized, like the D and D dragon ampersand logo thing. And I was like, that's interesting. And then the movie starts and I was like, this is like really wacky. You know, it's a, a Jack, I forget the Jack, Jack Flax, Jack flake. What's the, um, David Coleman's alter ego. Jack Flack. Jack Flack. Yeah. And it's this like weird spy thing and he's beating up the Russians and all this stuff. And then these two giant D 12 dice come rolling down an alleyway.

[00:37:54] And I was like, what the fuck is happening? It turns out you've been watching them play a role-playing game of Jack Flack. Uh, and so I was like, ah, this all makes sense. Now I understand what's going on here. It's like the themes of like, yes, the, the role-playing game and all that. And then he becomes, uh, Jack Flack is, is, um, Henry Thomas is like, uh, imaginary friend, alter ego slash thing for his father to, you know, they're both played his father and Jack Flack are played by Dabby Coleman.

[00:38:22] Um, and he's there whenever he's in a sticky situation, he's like, what would Jack Flack do? And yeah, right. He shows up and gives him spy advice. Um, and that's a really fun, like, you know, uh, plot mechanic. I don't know. It's cool. It's got William Forsyth as this like dopey computer nerd running the game store that helps them hack into the game, the game cartridge of cloak and dagger to figure out the secret, the secret stealth bomber plans, blueprints or something is what's in is like the MacGuffin that they're all chasing. Um, is this game cartridge. So, uh, yeah, I ended up having like a pretty fun time.

[00:38:52] It's got, you know, action. I mean, Henry Thomas is great. It's crazy how good he is for 12 or whatever, however old he is in this movie right after ET. Like, yeah, like, wow, he's great. Yeah. It's very fun. Nice. It's very fun to see him pop up in this movie. And, uh, yeah, like we mentioned before, it's a weird, like he's in, ET he's in this and is not really in like a ton. Uh, I mean, he might be in some stuff throughout the eighties and nineties, but isn't in like anything that like I know about necessarily, or like that, that pops up a lot. And then suddenly in like the mid 2010s, he's like, now he's one of Mike Flanagan's guys.

[00:39:20] And it just pops up in all of Mike Flanagan's movies and TV shows, which is very fun. Yeah. I did look because I don't remember if he wasn't maybe on my long list or something. I did talk about him potentially as a season five candidate for, uh, complete works. Okay. And I looked and yeah, it's, it's like a couple of movies in this era that I was like, Oh yeah, I've heard of these. And then it's a, it's actually like a surprising amount of stuff that I, you never heard of. Uh, at least I had never heard of until, until you kind of get to like the late, the late, uh, aughts slash the Mike Flanagan era. So he's, he's like, was still working.

[00:39:49] Uh, but yeah, they didn't hit quite as hard. Uh, okay. Yeah. He's actually in a few notable movies. He's in legends of the fall. He's in gangs of New York. Right. Uh, you know, he's in a dear John, which I think is the Nicholas Sparks, uh, movie. And then, yeah, once he gets into a Ouija origin of evil, now we're cooking with gas, baby. Yeah. Then we're locked in. Um, but, uh, I did also watch the interview. He has an interview also feature at, uh, Henry Thomas. And it was very funny because he was talking about, um, being, uh, you know, in DT and

[00:40:19] then all of a sudden he's, you know, similar to like what we were talking about in the goods or will be talking about in the goods set episode with Macaulay Culkin, where it's like, suddenly you're a, you have a lot of power. You're like a bankable actor person. Um, and he said they came to him with this movie that already was written and it's a remake of a Hitchcock movie. I forget which movie. Uh, it's, it's based on a short story. So it's, yeah, it's based on a short story called the boy cry. It's based on a short story.

[00:40:44] It was then filmed as a movie called the window, which is not a Hitchcock movie, but, uh, certainly has, you know, elements to it and has, has Hitchcock connections. Actually, I'm looking at it now. And the cinematographer also shot notorious. Yeah. There was something in that hole. I forget. Yeah. So I guess that was it. Um, yeah. And so it was a remake of, of, it was just a remake of the window, I think. Uh, and they came to him and this Henry Thomas and they were like, well, you're 12. You're, you're the demographic of this. Like, what are you and your friends?

[00:41:12] Like, and he was like role-playing games and computer game. And like, they put all that shit in because Henry Thomas was like into that stuff. Uh, and like, he's like, suddenly I'm in meetings with studio executives, like trying to explain what a role-playing game is so they can put it in the script. Like, that's crazy. So, uh, yeah, I mean, and then the fun, like, and then the movie is like surprisingly, uh, I think because they didn't have, you know, sort of rules or guidelines about things you couldn't do to children characters, like pretty intense.

[00:41:41] Uh, you know, they're, they're shooting guns at those kids. They're, uh, dangling them off cliffs and then doing all kinds of crazy shit. Um, yeah. And Henry Thomas is shooting a gun too. Yeah. He kills a guy at the end. Yeah. He blows some dude away. And I forget what he's, what the guy, he says to him, not Henry Thomas, like what the like henchman guy says to him before Henry Thomas shoots him. Cause he got like an Uzi. Cause of course he does. It's the bad guy in the eighties. Um, and he's like, this best thing will turn you into, into ground beef in three seconds.

[00:42:09] And like, like, like he's going to blow him away. But Jack Flack shows up and saves him and, uh, you know, tells Henry Thomas how to shoot him or something. I forget. Um, right. And, uh, and yeah, it's kind of fun. It's a fun thing. And it kicks off because, um, William Forsyth, the nerdy guy sends them on a like fake spy mission. Him, Henry Thomas and his, his like next door neighbor, who's like a 10 year old girl. I forget her name. Um, she's great too in this movie, like to go to this office building and get, go to their vending machine and get me Twinkies.

[00:42:39] But it's because there's a secret code in there. Like, you know, they're playing the role playing game thing. And when they go in there, they're, they sneak into the building and they're trying to get to the vending machine. And in the stairwell, Henry Thomas witnesses them. These henchmen guys shoot somebody that works in this building for their, the guy's cloak and dagger game cart, Atari game cartridge. Okay. And as he's dying, he is like, get it to the FBI and hands it to Henry Thomas and dies. Uh, and then they kick the door in and start trying to blow him away.

[00:43:07] And then that's what whole, that's the, that's the Hitchcock of it all. You know, he witnesses this murder and has this, the MacGuffin has this thing he needs to get to the authorities and it's being chased by assassins. But he's a 12 year old boy. Nobody believes him. What are you crazy? You in this damn games, the video games rot in your brain. Um, yeah. Which is interesting to kind of look at this movie and like a time when like video game, like I feel like film didn't know necessarily how to deal with video games at this point. Uh, and so there are a couple of like notable films like around the same time, like Tron

[00:43:36] or war games, uh, that are like also being like scary, huh? Video games. Look at this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's the Atari. So it's like right at the beginning of video, you know, console home gaming. It's not the, you don't have to go to the arcade now we have it at home. Uh, and that's going to rot the children's brains. Yes. And they were like kind of right eventually. Eventually. Yeah. But yeah, no, all that stuff is great. Dabney Coleman is so much fun in this movie too. Yeah. Uh, from what I remember.

[00:44:03] So he of course is the dad and then he is also the, uh, the alter ego of Jack Flack. And so refresh your memory, Mike. So it's, uh, Jack Flack shows up kind of throughout the movie as like the imaginary friend sort of thing. Uh, does the dad like take on the alter ego of Jack Flack at some point? At the very end. Yeah. Okay. He, that's sort of how he, cause it's like his, his like role playing character that Henry Thomas plays all the time. And at the end, the old people who are like the actual spies or whatever, I don't, I couldn't

[00:44:32] really figure out what's going on with the, uh, the cartridge, right. And who's actually trying to get it. But there at the end, they take, they take Henry Thomas hostage at the airport cause they're trying to flee and he's figured out where they are and all this stuff. Yeah. Um, and in order to like snap Henry Thomas out of it, cause he's like so lost and he doesn't know what's going on anymore. Um, the dad starts giving him orders as like, this is agent Jack Flack. Get it, get it together. Son. And then like, it kind of like snaps him out of it, uh, and, and gets him because, you

[00:44:59] know, of course, right before that he's, he's done like a, uh, you know, I'm too old for you. Kind of, I don't want to, I can't play with you, Jack, get out of here. And he like banishes the imaginary friend. But of course he, in his moment of need, he doesn't know what to do. He needs the spy advice on how to disarm a bomb or some crazy shit. I forget. Yeah. And then that's when the dad has come back. Cause he's also like, he's, the dad is a military guy in some capacity. I forget. Um, and so he, he like starts acting as if he's Jack Flack and you know, that's how Henry

[00:45:29] Thomas knows what to do. Right. And he's, and he's like searching for Henry Thomas, the entire movie, right? Like that's when he like finally catches up to him. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. He calls him, uh, yeah. Yeah. And it's like one of those things because he's a sort of, it's the eighties sort of a latch key kid. Like I'll be home from work at five o'clock. See you later. And he just leaves his 12 year old boy alone, um, to, to run rampant. Um, and all of this happens in like a single day. Uh, and he calls his father at work and, but of course they like shoot the phone or whatever,

[00:45:57] like something he alerts, like he figures out something's going wrong. Yeah. And, and that's, that's when he finally catches up to him at the airport, um, to save the day and they blow that plane up and it's crazy. Nice. Yeah. It's pretty sick. Yeah. Sounds great. Yeah. I, I really wish I could rewatch this, um, you know, before this episode, obviously. Um, but I'm glad that you enjoyed it, Mike. It sounds like you had a good time. Are there any other moments or scenes in this movie that you feel like you got to bring up? I think the kind of like eightiesness of it all is very fun.

[00:46:26] Like you, like you kind of were like, like that nobody else in the movie knows what the, like a Atari, what are you talking about? Like, you know, cause he's a 12 year old boy and he's got to keep explaining to adults, like what's going on, what these things are. Uh, yeah. Like a video game cartridge. What are you talking about, boy? Um, and all that. So that's, that's like just a fun, uh, uh, time capsule aspect of it. Um, there's a great like sequence at the, I think it's San Antonio. So yeah, that's the movie takes place in San Antonio, uh, at the like river walk thing

[00:46:53] where you can get in these like little boats and, uh, you know, they take you through downtown, like a tour thing, you know, touristy thing. Sure. Yeah. And that's where he hides, um, from the assassin guys that are chasing him. And that's where he meets these two, these two old people that try to like protect him. So you think at this point, uh, from the, like, Oh, what's wrong, son? You seem bothered. And he tells them that these, these two guys are trying to kill me. And they're like, Oh yeah. Sounds like a bunch of perverts. Uh, it's pretty funny.

[00:47:21] Cause it's just like these two grown ass men, like staring down this kid. Right. And so it's very funny. Um, but then it is eventually revealed that they are the, like, they're the two spies that the henchmen are working for. Right. So that's the whole thing. But that whole sequence is really fun. It's like, you know, a big chase down the river, walk onto these boats and stuff. There's a sequence at the Alamo, which is pretty cool. Uh, that's neat. What else? There's a, yeah, it's just, it's also like a little bit of a San Antonio, like travel log thing.

[00:47:48] Cause they go to all these like landmarks around the town, like this river walk in the Alamo and they go to like these Japanese gardens or whatever that they have. Uh, so that's fun. That's a neat aspect of movies from this period in general, I think, you know? Yeah. Just absolutely. Just showing you different places. Uh, yeah. Show you being on location and being part of it. You know, that's not on the volume. Yeah. Yes, no, absolutely. There was a, I recently saw, uh, the Mandalorian and Grogu, uh, the new star Wars movie, which, uh, I believe was largely shot on the volume, uh, which you can tell when you're watching it.

[00:48:18] Uh, but also I, I, you know, I watched it and at a certain point I realized like, I don't think I had seen like a human face in like 30 minutes or something like I just, it was a while and, uh, maybe be like, remember faces? Remember when we used to go places and like shoot on location with people, you know? Remember when people were in movies like humans? Yeah, exactly. But Mandalorian Grogu is largely puppets. So I forgive it for a lot of that. Yeah. Okay. That's still, but still, yeah, no cloak and dagger, a lot of fun.

[00:48:47] Uh, I'm glad you enjoyed it, Mike. I'm glad you had a good time. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I ever would have gone out of my way to watch the, I mean, cause like it sounds cool, but like, yeah, whatever, you know, kind of one of those kinds of deals. So I don't know if I ever would have got out of my way to actually like watch this. Um, yeah. So I'm glad, glad you make me, you made me watch it and, and I liked it. I had a fun time. I'm glad this feels like a movie that if I had seen it when I was like 12, this would have been like my gateway Hitchcock movie. I feel like, Oh yeah. I would have gotten into Hitchcock movies like kind of through this. I'm pretty sure my first Hitchcock was psycho and I think we watched it. Yeah.

[00:49:16] I mean, I, at the same time, I think a relatively accessible one, like it's a horror slasher kind of thing, but I watched it when I was 11 and I watched it and I was in like sixth grade and I invited a bunch of friends over to, uh, it was like the night before Halloween or something like that. So it was like, Oh, we're all going to get spooky and watch psycho and all that stuff. And I, I psycho was my pick. I think I had recorded it off TCM or something like that. And it didn't go over super well.

[00:49:42] I mean, it's like kind of, I can see that being kind of boring for like 12 year old boys. It was a fun experience because we were all just like, you know, laughing and making fun of the movie and stuff like that, but drunk on Sprite or whatever. Yeah, exactly. But I, I, it was not the ideal first viewing of psycho necessarily. Uh, I then watched it years later and it was great obviously, but, uh, yeah, I'm pretty sure psycho was the first one I saw. And then maybe the birds. Oh, the birds is probably the first one I saw. Yeah. Oh yeah. Now that you say that.

[00:50:12] Yeah. Okay. I've always been kind of mixed on the birds. How do you feel about the birds? I think it's got really great moments, but like, I think collected like as a whole, it's like kind of boring, but it's still rips. Yeah. I mean, I, I want to go back and give that another shot, but I remember watching that maybe when I was in college and not thinking of the birds was that great and just feeling, but there are other like, cause that the birds is almost like late period Hitchcock. Right. That's like 63. Uh, and there are other movies like post that, that I do really like, like Marnie is his next movie.

[00:50:40] I think that movie is amazing, you know, and family plot is his final movie. And I think that's actually a lot of fun. That's a, it's a pretty good time. Okay. Uh, never seen it. Yeah. Uh, what, what would you say is your favorite Hitchcock movie, Mike? Oh, it's tough. It's probably, uh, I mean, rear window is just so good. I'm just like so locked in on rear window and North by Northwest are both just like incredible. Um, they're both great. I think, am I making you watch dial in for murder? Like next month? Is that what's happening? Is that later? Is it later this year? Is it next month?

[00:51:08] Cause that'd be pretty good timing on my, yeah, you might've planned that out. I mean, I did also just watch, uh, for the first time semi recently foreign correspondent, which was great. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I really liked that, but it's, it's so interesting. His career is so long. And like, I guess you don't really, like, I don't really think about that. Like, you know, just kind of like pop culture wise. It's like, oh yeah, he had a bunch of movies, but it's like, damn, he went from the silent era to the late to the seventies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's 1976 was his final film, uh, with family plot.

[00:51:37] And that's the movie that if you watch days confused, uh, that's the movie that's playing at the drive-in at days confused. Nice. Cool. Uh, in the background there, dial in for murder is next month's movie. Nice. Is the June pick. So I have a Hitchcock adjacent and then an actual Hitchcock. And dial in for murder is maybe my favorite of Hitchcock's films. Uh, I'm very excited about it. And I'm, I'm excited to try to rewatch that one too. Yeah. Who's, who's in, I mean, I'll find out, but who's in that. Is that a, is that a Peter Lorre joint or are you thinking of M actually? Nothing. No, no Peter Lorre. I believe it's a Grace Kelly's in it.

[00:52:06] Uh, this is one of the films they made together. Dial M for murder. Looking it up real quick. It's a, yeah. Ray Moland is the star of dial in for murder. You may also know from the lost weekends, uh, or other films of that era. Uh, but Ray Moland is the main guy. And then Grace Kelly is, uh, the main actress in it. Um, and also, uh, John Williams, but not the John Williams you're thinking of is, is in it as well. I think, um, I think Ray Moland was just, it was in, not obviously he wasn't just in it,

[00:52:35] but was in the breaking point, the Michael Curtiz Hemingway. Oh really? Okay. I think he was the star of that. Yeah. Okay, cool. So I just got some Meland in. I'm ready. I'm prepped. I'm ready to go. Uh, so I'm making you watch dial in for murder next month. Mike, what are you making me watch? I am for sure. Ready to tell you what movie I'm making you watch. I was not looking up Ray Moland movies. Um, I am actually making you watch a movie I've never seen. Uh, also a bold gamble, uh, a bold gamble.

[00:53:02] Although I feel like it's a safe pick because I'm making you watch, uh, John Woo's hard target. Ooh. Okay. Yes. Nice. Uh, this is a movie that, uh, I actually programmed, uh, for inferno of danger as one of my final films there. Uh, and wasn't able to go to it for reasons beyond my control. And so, uh, yeah, hard target. Uh, I have the blu-ray of this. I'm excited to watch it. Great. Beautiful. Yeah. I'm excited for that. No, it's actually, it was John Garfield was the star of, uh, that's what I was trying to look at. As soon as I said it, I was like, wait, actually, I don't know.

[00:53:32] If that was true, it was the star of the breaking point, uh, John Garfield, not Ray Milan, but I watched something with Ray Milan in it and I'll talk about it next time. Probably. All right. Sounds good. So next time we do a Mike makes Mike watch, it'll be hard target and dial M for murder. Mike D where can we find you online this week? You can find me at MD film blog on letterbox and blue sky. Um, you can also donate, support the show on our coffee page, coffee.com slash Mike and Mike pods, where you can donate $50 to make a topic. Mike, you're on the bonus episodes of Mike and Mike go to the movies.

[00:54:01] You got a movie you want us to watch such as incendies. I don't know. Yeah. Incendies. Uh, I, I remember not liking incendies that much. Oh shit. Hot take. I think. Yeah. Maybe. I don't know anything about that movie. Um, yeah. Make us watch poly technique. I've never seen that one. Uh, there you go. Pick a, pick a Hitchcock. He's got a thousand of them. We'll watch. That's true. We almost did a Hitchcock for, uh, I think it was your birthday movie last year where you, you ended up going with only angels have wings instead of Howard Hawks joint. Um, but your initial thought was I want to do a Hitchcock and then you pivoted and I pivoted out. Yeah.

[00:54:30] So that'd be fun and fun to check those out. Um, you can do that on our coffee page, coffee.com slash Mike and Mike pods. And if you want merch, we have merch available on our red bubble. Mike and Mike pods. Red bubble.com. That's right. You can find me online at M Smith film blog on Twitter and blue sky. Mike Smith film on letterbox radio, Mike sandwich, Instagram, and you can follow the podcast and Instagram as well at complete work spot. Thank you for listening to Mike. Mike go to the movies. I'm Mike Smith. It's Mike to Criccio. Don't forget to rate and view the show on Apple podcasts or any other podcast app. And if you want to contact us, you can ski down us at complete work spot.

[00:54:58] You can find the rest of our podcast and rapture press alongside many other podcasts, all kinds of comic books and movie news and all that good stuff. Our theme song was created by Kyle Cullen. You can meet your own podcast themes at Kyle's podcast, themes at gmail.com. He also edited this episode and our logo was designed by Mac fee or at fearless guard on blue sky. Check out the main podcast, the complete works where season five is underway. As of this recording, we just published our episode on internal affairs. And if this is coming out, then child of the night is probably already out.

[00:55:27] So you can check that out as well. And that normal movie. Yes. A normal movie for normal people. And that is the end of this episode of Mike, Mike go to the movies. We'll see you on the other side.