[00:00:23] Hello and welcome to episode 116 of The Complete Works Season 1, a deep dive into the career and films of actor Nicolas Cage. My name is Mike Smith and joining me on this journey into the world of true cagedom is my friend, co-host and fellow cageaholic, Mike DiCrecio. How are you doing today Mike?

[00:00:50] I'm doing great. Even though we just did a season one episode like two or three weeks ago, I was completely thrown for a loop you didn't say Roy Boy. I like panicked. I was like what's going on? I thought we were going across the Scheiderverse. What is this? Yeah, what's that was? The cagedom? I don't remember. I don't remember. You thought we were recording our White Raven episode, forgetting that we had already done that because that movie was so unforgettable. Yeah, agreed. But yes, just like that mere weeks after releasing our episode on gunslingers,

[00:01:18] we are back with another Nicolas Cage picture. But there is, let's say, slightly more prestige behind this one, I think. Okay, that's a way to put it. Compared to gunslingers. I think that's fair to say. The Stephen Dorff film? Yeah, the Stephen Dorff film. For one thing, this movie had an actual theatrical release, although there wasn't much advertising. I don't think it's made all that much money, but still it hit theaters. It's a real movie.

[00:01:45] For another, we are talking about a film that did have its premiere at the 2024 Cannes Film Festival. Now, granted, that's the same festival that got the ball rolling on Amelia Perez. So not everything that plays it can is a winner, but it's usually a pretty good indicator that a movie will at least be interesting. And Mike and I actually went one step further with this film. Isn't that right, Mike? That's right. Yeah, we we discovered there's a super secret special screening only for us, basically. Yeah.

[00:02:15] Yeah, which we kind of just stumbled upon. So not only did we go see it in theaters, but we discovered that each of our local theaters were having a preview screening of today's movie, the Wednesday before its release, which was followed by a live stream Q&A featuring Nicholas Cage and director Lorcan Finnegan. And so because of our tireless dedication to this podcast, we made it out for this and watching Cage talk about his process, I think legitimately fascinating. He's a great Q&A guy, a great interviewee. Oh, absolutely. I had like a weirdly profound

[00:02:45] reaction to the Q&A in a not like anything specific that he said, even though it was very fascinating and interesting. But just generally, in a just and real and and true world, Tom Cruise and Nicholas Cage would be the president and vice president of movies. Nicholas Cage is a amazing, incredible ambassador of film. And I don't think I somehow after 116 episodes ever really, I don't I guess

[00:03:12] I had never watched a Q&A with him before. I don't know what it was that I in this reaction or maybe just were so robbed of human connection and soul in this AI slop era that I was like, holy shit, hearing him talk about Sabrina or the swimmer or whatever any of this stuff we'll get into with the film. I was just like blown away that like a person can have that kind of connection to film old film and all that stuff and everything and evangelize it in the way that he did, because it was

[00:03:38] amazing. The Q&A was incredible is what I'm getting at. Yes, absolutely. It's a really great Q&A. I hope it becomes available as a special feature on the Blu-ray or online somewhere. I think more people should see it, especially because in my screening, it was me and one other guy, which which was the amount of people who were in there for the movie. We both stayed for the Q&A. Nice. You when you went, did you have many people in your screening, Mike? I know you were the only one who stayed with the Q&A. Is that right? Yes. Yeah, I texted you that. Yeah. Yeah. There was like less than 10,

[00:04:07] 10 or fewer. I don't really know how many people total, but a handful. And the credits started to roll and everyone got up and left. And I was like, didn't we pick the Q&A screening? What are you here for? Like on Wednesday? So I sat through the credits, the credits ended, the screen went black, the full house lights came on. And I was like, well, I guess it's over. Like, maybe there is no Q&A. What are they like? What's happening? So I got up and went to the bathroom and I was like, well,

[00:04:36] I guess I'll just I was going to leave. I was like, but I guess let me just go peek back at the theater. And I walked back down the little thing and peeked over around the edge. And there was a big like Q&A starting soon, like image on the screen. And I was like, holy shit. Like, okay, thank God this is real. And during the Q&A, like a multiple theater employees, like two or three people came in with like the sweep up the popcorn stuff and saw me and we're like, oh, and turned around and walked back out. So I guess they didn't expect anybody to stay. I don't know what was going

[00:05:02] on, but the full house lights came on and really threw me for a loop in between the movie and the actual Q&A bit. So, but I made it. I stayed. I was the only one there. I'm glad. And so you got to experience Nicolas Cage really talking about his love for film because yeah, he is somebody who thinks about acting a lot and clearly has a very deep love of film, knowledge of film history. So when talking about some of his influences for today's film, he discussed The Swimmer with Burt Lancaster, which actually me and you both watched over the

[00:05:30] weekend as well. Independently, I watched it and then because he kept talking about it so much in this, I watched The Swimmer and then I, we had it in the same put IO thing. So I'm wondering if you just saw it there and we're like, yeah, it's time. Or did you have the independent thought to also watch it on your own? Yeah. Same, same reaction from the Q&A because he talked about it so much, but I had been meaning to watch The Swimmer for a long time. I was on Criterion

[00:05:56] channel a couple of times. But I remember first hearing about it. It was actually, it was fascinating. Uh, uh, Ileana Douglas is the actress's name. Uh, from Pittsburgh. From Pittsburgh. Yes, that's right. She was on the movie Pittsburgh, not the town of Pittsburgh. Yes, that's right. The Jeff Goldblum movie Pittsburgh, um, was on an episode of, um, the movies that made me with Joe Dante's podcast, uh, because she written a book called Connecticut on film or something like that. And it was all about movies that take place in Connecticut.

[00:06:24] And of course The Swimmer is, was a major part of the discussion. And I think, I guess her book, um, and it sounded incredible. And yeah, I was like, oh man, I gotta watch that. And I put it on like the, the, you know, uh, letterbox watch list four years ago or whatever, like whatever it was, it just never got around to it. And then hearing Cage talk about it so much in the Q and A, I was like, oh shit, I should watch The Swimmer. Yeah. I mean, that was my, uh, reason for watching it as well. Uh, and I, that was, it wasn't really on my radar really. So that was a cool fresh watch for me. But yeah, he discussed The Swimmer with Burt Lancaster. He talked about the collective works of

[00:06:53] John Sheever. He discussed Billy Wilder's Sabrina and he discussed David Bowie's performance in Mary Christmas, Mr. Lawrence. All of this in service of a movie where Nicolas Cage takes a dead rat and stuffs it down a guy's throat. Fascinating. Uh, today we are talking about The Surfer.

[00:07:13] You can't stop a wave. Born in a storm, way out to sea. Pure energy. And it's all building to this breaking point. I grew up here. Don't leave you. Don't serve you. Hey, Dad. It's okay. You're scaring my boy.

[00:07:43] I need for all this fuss. Listen to me, brother. I know it's smart to lose space in front of your boy, but you gotta know when it's gonna back down. Or it could get a whole lot worse. This is a special place for us. It was magic here when I was your age. My old house is finally for sale. And I'm buying it. Just wanna go home now. Wake up, son.

[00:08:14] Locals only. Don't live here. Don't surf here. I'm not surfing. What is the view for locals only as well? Like engines. You gotta release a little steam now and then or you'll blow up. That's my board. And I want it back. Listen, mate, I think you've been out in the sun too long. No, my father gave me that board.

[00:08:44] I can tell you myself, that old board's been up there for as long as I can remember. She's a beaut, isn't she? I'm not trying to be cruel. We don't belong here anymore. All I want is to take my son surfing. Don't kid yourself now. Before you can have everything. You have to experience nothing. What? Pathetic.

[00:09:14] A good one. All right, now The Surfer stars Nicolas Cage as the titular surfer, who is unnamed in the film. A man who returns to his childhood home in Australia

[00:09:42] with the intent to buy it for his family. Julian McMahon, who played Doctor Doom in the Fantastic Four movies, plays Scali, the leader of a group who won't let him surf there and who slowly drives Cage to the brink of madness. And then from there, it's a cast comprised mostly of relatively unknown Australian actors, but a couple of notable ones here. Justin Rosniak, who plays the cop, was one of the detectives in Animal Kingdom. Raul Roman, who plays the estate agent, played Vulture in Furiosa. Furiosa.

[00:10:10] I'm actually shocked more of these guys weren't in Furiosa, just considering the time period that this was made. I think I just, I think I just like mentally put them all in Furiosa and was like, oh yeah, these are the guys. Yeah, it's just, these are the war boys, basically. Yeah, yeah. And Charlotte Maggie, who plays Jenny, was also Sam in both of Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon movies. The movie was written by Thomas Martin, who also wrote for a show called Tin Star with Tim Roth. And it was directed by Lorcan Finnegan, who got his start working on Black Mirror back in the day,

[00:10:39] and who has since directed the movies without name, Vivarium and Nocebo, which I have not seen any of his previous films, but Nick Cage talked about them in the Q&A and saying that was sort of the reason why he jumped onto the surfer is because I think he had seen Nocebo and really liked it. Yeah, that had, Vivarium, I think is like a Jesse Eisenberg movie or something, if it's the one I'm thinking of. And Nocebo got a lot of like buzz in like the Shudder horror, like a weird drug trip. One of those kind of, what's real kind of movies, which, you know, tracks with the surfer.

[00:11:09] Yeah, absolutely. So the surfer was released on May 2nd, 2025, where it opened to number 10 at the box office. So it did crack the top 10. All right. So that's something. You know, it was with a number of like $600,000, but it was something. Cage is still bankable. Exactly. Opening to number nine was an Indian film called Hit the Third Case. Opening to number one, the new Marvel movie, Thunderbolts, which is pretty good. I saw it this weekend and I liked it quite a bit. It is very funny to read positive reviews of the movie

[00:11:39] because all of them are like, it's a real movie this time, guys. They did it. They actually made a movie. That's crazy. Yes. Which speaks to the standard of quality of the last couple of years of Marvel movies, where it used to be like a given. We're like, oh yeah, new Marvel movies, pretty good. And now it's like a shock when it's pretty good. So hopefully this kind of indicates things turning around a little bit. But yeah, no, it did remind me of kind of the earlier, like the phase one style Marvel movie stuff. So yeah,

[00:12:09] it's a pretty good time. Thunderbolts. The rest of the top 10 consists of Sinners, a Minecraft movie, The Accountant 2, Until Dawn, The Amateur, The King of Kings, which we went on a little bit of a tangent last time talking about King of Kings. That's the Jesus movie where I thought Oscar Isaac played Charles Dickens. Yes. Actually, I looked it up after that episode. I want to correct myself. Oscar Isaac plays Jesus and Kenneth Branagh plays Charles Dickens. What a swerve. Yes. It's actually, it's an insane cast

[00:12:39] that The King of Kings puts together. And I'm not going to go too much into that, but I know that both Kenneth Branagh and Oscar Isaac are both in it. And I saw the trailer for it relatively recently and it truly is like, Charles Dickens is telling the story of Jesus because like his kid is like, ah, you know, who cares about a king? I think they're like, they're putting on some kind of like production of King Lear or something. Okay. And the kid's like, I don't care about kings. And Charles Dickens is like, well, let me tell you a story about the greatest king of all. Turns that he turned his chair around backwards and playing acoustic guitar.

[00:13:09] His name was Jesus Christ. And so yeah, it looks awful, but yeah, King of Kings in the top 10 and also Warfare in the top 10 as well. The IMDB plot synopsis for The Surfer reads, a man returns to the idyllic beach of his childhood to serve with his son. When he is humiliated by a group of locals, the man is drawn into a conflict that keeps rising and pushes him to his breaking point. So Mike D, going into The Surfer, what were you expecting from this film? Obviously, whenever there's a new Cage movie out,

[00:13:40] sometimes it's like a video on demand thing that we can watch pretty easily at home, all that kind of stuff. Sometimes it takes a little bit of extra effort. You got to go to the theater, which you don't do as often as I do. So it's like, you know, you don't have the, you're not on the A-list, you're not on the Stubbs A-list like I am. So it's, but I think you were relatively excited for this movie going into it. But what were you expecting from The Surfer? And what are your overall thoughts on the film? Yeah, going into The Surfer, I didn't really know any specifics about it. If you're a listener, long time listener of the show, you know I'm unsullied. I try not to watch trailers.

[00:14:09] I try not to like find out or know much about movies before I see them. And so I had, I remember hearing about this last year coming out of Cannes and then like, oh, it's actually good or whatever. It sort of was the, the, you know, my, my, my very limited reaction or like awareness of the reaction to it. Sure. So there was that. I knew it was sort of about like a guy battling surfers on a beach or something. And I was like, that could mean anything. I have no idea what this is.

[00:14:39] I think coming out of Cannes, the descriptions that like I was reading about it just kind of made it sound like, well, this is John Wick on a beach or something like it's, right. You know, Nicolas Cage versus surfers. And that's, and I was like, that sounds fun. I'm in like, that sounds pretty good. Um, and so I was, I didn't know what to expect necessarily, but, um, what I definitely wasn't expecting was like a, a trippy Australian new wave exploit, like exploitation movie, the kind of thing, like picnic at hanging rock, uh, but Nicolas Cage on a beach

[00:15:09] kind of, and, they talked about that kind of stuff in the Q and a, um, so there, that's, that was neat. Um, and yeah, I was, I was totally blown away by this movie. I mean, I don't know if it's as great as, um, you know, maybe like pig or something, which is a movie that I think is like perfect. Um, but I think this is pretty close. It's a little on the, like the trashier aspect, end of the spectrum than a movie like pig is, but, uh, that's fun. Like it's so cool. Cage gets to be a crazy cage, but like thematically appropriate

[00:15:39] that he's in that, um, So that's pretty cool. Right. This isn't just like Nicolas Cage throwing out a Tom Waits voice like in gunslayers and being like, that's me. Yeah. And that's my character and I'm done. Um, you know, but no, he's, he's the lead. He's in the whole movie. It's, it's following him the whole time. So it's 90 plus minutes of cage, which is awesome. Uh, and all the other performances are great. Um, it is very funny though. Like at a certain point it becomes like, um,

[00:16:08] you can almost picture the moment where like the screenwriter, and this is like a, you know, uh, obviously this isn't what happened, but it's like he heard an Australian person say the word suffer. And it was like, wait, say that again. Um, and we have a movie from that because suffer sort of sounds like sir, right? It kind of sounds like the word surfer in Australian accent. Uh, and that becomes a refrain through that, the whole movie, but it's very, like you can kind of see the, like the scene, like, uh, you know, you're at the pub and somebody,

[00:16:38] you hear that, you overhear somebody say that and you're like, hold on. And you run back and write a whole movie on that idea. It's a crazy trip, uh, to, to the brink, to the edge of madness, uh, through, through the looking glass, right? There's a whole, a whole journey that, uh, the surfer goes on that, uh, I was pretty locked in for, which is a nice surprise following up gunslingers. Um, but right. We've talked about this, uh, in the Roy Scheider season, uh, a couple of times recently, the sort of, uh, Scheiders where we are currently in like that 98, 97,

[00:17:08] 99 DTV slide, um, it doesn't have the peaks and valleys the way the cage era that we currently are in has. Uh, and I think this is surfer is for sure a peak. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, I think it's very different. I mean, cage definitely had that DTV era and it is still making, I mean, I guess VOD era now because that's the era that we're in, but like, you know, he's still making those VOD movies like gunslingers, but I would describe this as like, uh, you know, it's a cage of sounds that we, that we, that we've been in, um, where it is like, you know,

[00:17:38] at least like once every two years, there's been a relatively major movie starring Nicholas cage. That is really good. Uh, and that's been the case like since Mandy came out right in 2018. Uh, and so we had Mandy and we had color out of space and we had pig and we had dream scenario and we had long legs. And so there's movies that have like captured people's imaginations that have become cult hits. Uh, and then, and in the case of long legs became like a really big box office success, uh, which, uh, is very cool to see. Uh, and so Nicholas cage is like kind of back in making studio movies again. Uh,

[00:18:07] he obviously had Renfield, uh, in 2023, he had unbearable weight, massive talent. Uh, he is making, uh, I actually, I don't know how this like slipped under my radar. Uh, he is starring in a new David O Russell movie, uh, which is, you know, whatever. I'm not a big David O Russell guy, but the movie itself sounds insane. Uh, the movie is Madden, uh, in which Nicholas cage is playing John Madden. What? Uh, it's a, it's a John Madden biopic. Um, but I think it's about John Madden as like a video game tycoon.

[00:18:34] So like John Mulaney is playing like the head of EA sports, uh, and Nicholas cage is playing John Madden. It's filming right now. This sounds like a movie I'm making up. It's I'm not. Yeah. It sounds like somebody saw air and was like, hold on. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, that, uh, that is incoming. So we'll see how that turns out. But, uh, yeah, Nicholas cage in the surfer. I think the surfer sort of rides the line, like right in between of like, you know, it's not quite like VOD trash. Uh,

[00:19:03] and it's not quite the prestige picture of like, you know, not necessarily. I mean, I guess, I don't know if it's calling Mandy a prestige picture is a weird thing to call Mandy. Yeah. but it's like an impeccably well-made movie and like all that, all that kind of stuff. I would say it's maybe more in line with like Colorado space or Colorado space, Colorado space, I think is a really, really good movie that feels a little bit trashy. I mean, it's, I think Colorado space is a very trashy. Is it, is it really like gross? gross weird horror movie. Uh, and this is a, uh, you know,

[00:19:30] it's just Nicholas cage and you're watching him just kind of go insane over the course of the movie. Uh, and kind of what I really like about it, we haven't really seen Nicholas cage play just a normal guy in a long time. And for the first like half of this movie, he's kind of just playing a normal guy. And I liked that about it a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. He's kind of like, like Michael Douglas character and falling down for like the first 30 minutes of this movie where he's just like a businessman who's like in, and shit's going wrong. And like, he's,

[00:20:00] I gotta go do business. Right. And it's like, uh, and he gets stuck in traffic and falling down. And in this it's, he can't sell or whatever. He can't get the mortgage or whatever he needs, uh, to make the house payment and ends up just spiraling into hell because of that. Uh, and yeah, I think that's a good point that he's sort of just been, he hasn't just been a guy, you know, we've had snake hands. We've had Tom waits, uh, whatever we've had, uh, other stuff that I can't remember because there's been 50 movies between this and snake hands. Outcast.

[00:20:29] Yeah. Outcast. I was gonna say, you can't even remember the name of the movie. It's just snake hands. Now it's just snake hands. Ironically snake scene in, in the server. Yes. Yeah. He, and, I believe Nicholas cage actually got bit by the snake in real life. Uh, that's right. Uh, it's a really fun premise. Uh, and you're, uh, it's a really fun thing where like the movie gaslights, Nicholas cage for so long that like, it's sort of like the viewer starts to question about like whether like the first 10, 20 minutes, like even really happens, uh,

[00:20:59] or that kind of thing where you're kind of just on this journey with cage. Uh, cause he, it is, he's in every scene. Like he's the, he's you're watching it from his POV. Yeah, no, I think he's really great in it. It's shot really well. Julian McMahon's a really fun, like dastardly villain for Nicholas cage to bounce off. Of, uh, playing this sort of like Andrew Tate character where he's like, uh, you know, you know, men are weak now. I am the, the arbiter of masculinity and I have these followers and all that kind of stuff. Uh, but he's Australian. So it hits different, I guess. I don't know. I saw somebody say like,

[00:21:29] you know, point break ends with Bodhi surfing in Australia, right? That's the, uh, the thing, how point break ends. And like, if Bodhi didn't die at the end of point break, spoilers for point break, uh, somebody was like, I could see that being where that character is like 30 years from now, 30 years later. Right. Yeah. So I, I thought Julian was a lot of fun and it's, uh, I think the movie is a little bit too long. Like it has maybe like one or too many endings. Like it kind of like, it has like, I think a natural ending point. And then it kind of goes on for another 15 minutes, but overall it's, it's really interesting.

[00:21:59] It's really cool. And yeah, I had a blast. I had a lot of fun with the surfer. Yeah. Yeah. It made me feel, you know, like the, the kind of refrain joke and unbearable weight of massive talent is like Nick Cage is back, baby. Not that he went anywhere. Um, and, uh, uh, that's, that's how we, you know, as the bleeding edge of the cage, a sense starting this podcast in 2015, three years before Mandy comes out, we were, we were right there. We've been there the whole time. the cage, he's coming back. Uh, and I think for sure, even though this is a, you know,

[00:22:28] maybe smaller impact, uh, in terms of like box office, especially to compare it to something like long legs or whatever. But this is a pretty major, so, you know, substantive artistic, uh, work, uh, that I think, you know, got recognized that can, uh, take that for whatever it's worth. Um, but I think people are, people are talking about server. I've seen people that are not movie heads, not cage heads being like, yeah, have you seen, you seen that? Anyone heard about this movie? And it's like, interesting. Okay. Yes. Come, come to me. So that's exciting. This, this has cult hit, like kind of written all over it, right?

[00:22:57] I think the word, the word of mouth is going to be pretty positive on this and people will check it out. Uh, like once it hits like Hulu, I think it's going to be like, I'm assuming it's going to go to Hulu. Uh, I don't know, but like once it hits Hulu or something, like I think more people will see it and more people will, uh, enjoy it. I, I think, uh, it will find its audience for sure. Uh, but yeah, Nicholas cage in the server. What did you think of his performance, Mike? I think he's really great. I think, um, you know, different, different reaction to, uh, like in the audience,

[00:23:25] which I say grant granted was 10 people, maybe total, uh, in the theater. And it, and it was also the like Wednesday pre-screening crowd, you know, thing, like I said before. So it's maybe they're a little more in the bag for cage, but, uh, comparing this to something that I saw, uh, in theaters, like color out of spite. I don't know what happened. Color out of space. Color to my voice there. I almost had an Australian accent for a second. Color out of space. Um, I remember going into Manhattan to see that theater and people were just hysterically laughing at everything Nicholas Cage said.

[00:23:55] And it was like still the meme of Nicholas Cage. Uh, and that, that didn't happen in this, in this, uh, react theater. Um, which granted this, this movie is like more overtly comedic, uh, at a lot of points and, and like, uh, surrealist and all that stuff. So like, there's, I think more to like actively laugh at, participate in the movie and laugh at it than just like, isn't it weird that cage is yelling, uh, kind of laughter. Um, right. So this theater didn't have that. So that was, it's what I'm saying is like, this was kind of like people were engaged with this film,

[00:24:24] which is pretty cool. That's interesting. I had a similar, when I saw Mandy, uh, I had a, you know, packed theater, it was sold out. Uh, and I mean, it was like a, uh, it was like a party when I saw Mandy, like there was like almost, there was a beach ball going around kind of thing. Like it was like, and it was true. Like I, it was a great theatrical experience, but it was a crowd that was like going for like the cage insanity. Right. Right. Uh, and you know, like at, to the point where like at the very, like in the midpoint of the movie during his big freak out in the bathroom, uh, which is, I think a, you know, a heartbreaking moment, uh,

[00:24:54] while also like kind of that movie plays Nicholas Cage's insanity to like, you know, like, yes, he's going over the top. Yes, he's going crazy. But like, it also like there's a tragedy to it all. Right. Oh yeah. Uh, and I, and I feel like there were people in the audience who were like severely misreading that moment where like a guy was shouting like cage rage. Yeah, here we go. Uh, you know, like in the bathroom, it's, it's actually very sad. Uh, I do think maybe pig was like a turning point there with,

[00:25:22] with audiences maybe where his performance in that movie is pretty understated, just kind of very stoic. And he's very like, uh, it's, it's an incredible performance. Obviously it's the one that, uh, he won the Mike award war for, for, uh, best actor in 2021. That's right. Um, he, he is my, also my most nominated actor, uh, unsurprisingly. And for, for the Mike awards, I think pig was maybe a turning point where once people started catching onto that movie, uh, which was like a pretty solid hit when it came out, but I think definitely found its audience more once it hit, you know,

[00:25:51] Netflix and streaming and all that kind of stuff. I think people saw that side of cage. And I think now there's more people who are treating him as less of a joke, I guess, even though he's also playing into the joke sometimes too, with stuff like unbearable way to mess up talent. Right. Yeah. And I, and I, that's what, that's what I'm saying is like, I think in the last five, eight years, whatever it is, uh, post Mandy, like there's kind of been this transition back into actually like, Oh wait a second, serious actor, very capable actor, which they talked about a lot in the Q and a about, you know, he's been doing this for 40 years, uh,

[00:26:21] and, and stuff and talking about being, and birdie. It's like a movie. Like nobody talks about birdie. Like cage is like when I was in birdie and I was like, yeah, let's go. Um, so that was, that was fascinating. Um, and, uh, yeah, all that to say, I think cage is really great in this. He, he, he plays the, it's like kind of perfectly tailored for his, and it kind of makes sense. Uh, when you get somebody like Nicholas cage, you're like, okay, this is what we're doing to his, his, uh, talent, right? He plays the kind of straight man. He's kind of the normal guy, a little, you know, out of touch,

[00:26:51] not cool to his kid, right? He's trying to like his sons, like sort of embarrassed by him and all this stuff. Uh, and then off the deep end and it's the, the, the nouveau shamanic stuff or whatever he called that, uh, his acting technique for a while there, where you're just kind of going to this flow state and let it happen. Um, and, and it, it totally fits the movie. So, uh, yeah, I think he's great. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:27:29] And everything, like everything's like, you know, he's a weird dude, you know? Uh, so even when he's like playing ostensibly normal characters, he often actually isn't. Uh, and so to have him just kind of be a struggling dad, like trying to buy his childhood home, uh, trying to impress his son, trying to keep his family together. His wife is separated from him and, uh, she's asking for a divorce so she can marry this other guy. She's pregnant with his child, all that kind of stuff. Like he's dealing with a lot, uh, before all this surfing stuff starts happening, right? Before,

[00:27:58] before he meets Julian McMahon's character and finds out, don't live here. Don't surf here. You know, that's, which sounds like something the Octoboss would have said in Furiosa. It would have been incredible. Cause a Furiosa is just what I assume Australia is like. So, so it would have been incredible if just like there was a war rig that drove past while all this was going on. This is definitely the prequel to Mad Max. Yes, absolutely. Uh, but yeah. So, and then, you know, when,

[00:28:27] when he starts to kind of escalate, uh, he, you know, starts going crazy and crazier. Basically like he just keeps losing more and more things over the course of the movie. Uh, you know, he loses his car and he loses his wedding ring and he loses his phone. Uh, and then like by the end, he's like lost all sense of self. He's like, uh, there's the, uh, the homeless guy who he looks sort of befriends at the beginning of the movie. Uh, and he is now like fully become that guy, uh, towards the end of the movie. Uh, and you know, he's only been stranded out there for a few days,

[00:28:56] but like that's enough time. And like the heat is so intense in Australia, uh, that like he's just truly has gone manic. Um, but even then, like, you know, he's going nuts, but it's not like we've seen him go way more over the top than he does in this movie. Right. I think there's a level of over the top that he goes in. This is not, yeah, I think it's not the craziest we've ever seen, but it feels of a piece. Like I've been saying like thematically with the film. So it doesn't feel like, Oh, this is a cage freak out. Um,

[00:29:26] like when he's, uh, accosting all those people and he's talking about the putonesca and the, the, the front scallops or whatever, which they talked a lot about in the Q and a, but like that scene is P like peak cage freak out. I think cause it's just him like improvising and running around a parking lot and screaming. Uh, but like it, it totally works for his character. So you're like, Hmm, you're like steeple your fingers and lean forward. Like, you know, I think it's totally different reaction to stuff like that. Uh, at least I do then when he's doing a Tom Waits voice, uh, you know,

[00:29:56] or something else like that. Absolutely. Yeah. He has wild scenes like that or the scene where he takes a dead rat and stuffs down a guy's throat while drowning him. Yeah. While shouting like eat the rat, eat the rat. But even that, like that's probably the craziest he gets in the movie. And that's like, that's probably the wildest he gets. And that's in terms of like the overall career of Nicholas cage that we have seen thus far. And we have seen all of it. Like that's maybe like a seven on the, on like, on like how wild we've seen cage go before.

[00:30:24] It like feels very much like within the world of the movie. Like this is like a realistic version of that. And then to find out that that's based on a Humphrey Bogart performance from Billy Wilder's. Yes. Sabrina. From the screwball comedy, Sabrina from 1954, which I have seen, but many, many years ago. And just like, yeah, like a one-off kind of joke that Humphrey Bogart has in that movie. Like the way that like he kind of lifts that. And I liked his line where it's like, yeah, you, I mean, it's, it's good to be like a, you know,

[00:30:52] a cinephile film fan because you could steal from old movies and nobody will notice. Yeah. Those are the ones you're allowed to steal from. And it's okay. Yeah. It's very funny to watch, you know, watching, having watched the swimmer, you know, right after watching the surfer, because within the first four minutes of the swimmer, there's a slow zoom in closeup onto Burt Lancaster's eyes as he looks wistfully over, like an overlook. And you're like, Oh, that's the surfer. There it is. It took,

[00:31:18] it took four minutes to get to the thing they stole because they do that so many times in the surfer. Yes. And they, and they talk about the swimmer a lot in the Q and a, uh, and they, you know, it's a very clearly like a huge influence on this movie. Yeah. And so, yeah, I had not seen the swimmer until this weekend. I watched it after I saw the surfer and, uh, yeah, no watching it. Like you said, like right away, you can kind of catch a glimpse of it just visually, but also just in terms of like, you're watching a guy like completely losing his sense of self over the course of an hour and a half. Right. Like you're, you're seeing this seemingly,

[00:31:47] well off person, uh, completely unravel in, in this guy's case, in the swimmer's case, it's like all things that like he did himself that like has caused his family to leave him and all that kind of stuff. And he's like been in complete denial about it. And he's just kind of snapped and he's going on this journey to swim back to his home by which he means like jumping into like neighbors' backyards and going into their pools, swimming, and then going to the next neighbor's backyard. Uh, and every single neighbor is having a party with dozens of people there. And they're all like, we haven't,

[00:32:16] you haven't been around since last year. Where have you been? And he's got some fake, you know, well, well, we've been blah, blah, blah, whatever. The girls are at home. Uh, and I love the, the reaction to that where it's like the first neighbor is subtly like, oh, that's interesting. Like, you know, and, and like you don't put it together. And then by the time he gets getting to the last people, they're like, what are you talking like? And they're having full blown fights. Um, yes. Over, over whatever happened to his family or what he did or whatever. Um, and I think,

[00:32:46] I think that the surfer charts a similar kind of like, uh, unraveling like, oh yeah, this is sort of a little bit weird. Something is strange here. And then by the end we're executing people on a beach. You know? Right. Exactly. Uh, so how do you think this fits into the Nicholas Cage roles that we've seen so far, Mike? Well, the first thing, the whole time I was watching it, uh, I was like, this is bad Lieutenant protocol in New Orleans. Like it's a man that goes off the deep end. It goes insane. Psychosis, like, you know,

[00:33:15] keep shooting cause the soul's still dancing or whatever that line is in bad Lieutenant. But I think, I think this one's more of an arc. I feel like bad Lieutenant, he starts already, uh, he's already at a 10, like at the beginning of that movie, he's already a coked out psycho, uh, and then starts hallucinating or whatever. Um, but now you were talking about like sort of every man, uh, stuff like that. I don't know that that brings to mind like the weatherman or like even matchstick men, which is a much more neurotic, uh, performance than like a normal guy. But I, but I, that kind of, I feel like there's a,

[00:33:45] it over our head out of the frying pan to the fire kind of thing to this movie that that movie shares to. Um, so yeah, there's a, there's a couple there for me, but I think protocol, uh, bad, bad Lieutenant was the most like for me stood out just kind of thematically. Yeah. I think bad Lieutenant's a good poll. Uh, honestly, I like thinking about this movie and thinking about the arc that Nicholas Cage's character goes on. I do think it's a little bit similar and very different performances to vampires kiss just in terms of like, you know, vampires kiss another movie,

[00:34:14] like bad Lieutenant where he kind of does start on like a nine or a 10. Like he's, he's already pretty wacky, but of course in vampires kiss, uh, he, uh, has an encounter with this woman who he, who bites him during sex. And then he believes he's turning into a vampire throughout the course of the movie. Uh, and he is like slowly unraveling, but I say slowly, he's very quickly unraveling in vampires kiss. Yes. Uh, and so he starts off at a pretty insane space and only goes crazier, uh,

[00:34:44] in that movie. But so in a way, I think the surfer kind of does echo vampires kiss in a weird way. Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I, and I think hearing a cage talk about birdie, like, I don't know, like that era of his career is clearly still at the forefront of his mind. Uh, you know when he was in the early eighties and mid eighties. Uh, I was very surprised to hear him drop birdie. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So that, that was fascinating. And I forget exactly the context other than, I think he was discussing somebody at the, the host asked him like, you know,

[00:35:14] how do you prepare for the, go to those dark places kind of thing. Uh, and he was talking about being 20 in, in birdie and like getting teeth pulled. So it would make his face look different. And he's like, I'm 60. I can't do that shit anymore. Uh, or whatever. I gotta be able to go home and play with my kids, you know? Like that. Yeah.

[00:35:59] Yeah. Method acting is like sort of a young man's game. It's, uh, as you get older, you kind of age out of it a little bit. Right. And being able to, like you said, like turn it off and go home and be normal, uh, with your children and stuff. Um, yeah. Which I, you know, we've talked about, uh, we talked especially about, uh, in the Scheider season, we talked about Dustin Hoffman a little bit in a marathon man, uh, and how Dustin Hoffman, like that very famous method acting stories surrounding Dustin Hoffman, especially in that era. Um, you don't hear them that much anymore. Uh, and I think that's, there's a, I don't think he,

[00:36:29] stays up all night for a role to try to look tired again anymore. Like, I feel like, you know, he's not showing up to meet the Fockers four and doing like, uh, which they are filming. I think they are making a new, meet the parents movie. Uh, but yeah, he's not like method acting for those movies or like, you know, do it, doing as much anymore because you know, you get older and you have to take it a little bit less seriously, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. You're still taking it seriously, but you don't have to like make it miss, submit your whole being to it. You know, you just need to channel it. This, this,

[00:36:58] you gotta go into a meditative state or whatever cage was talking about. Yes, exactly. Uh, but yeah. All right. What are the, uh, the scenes that stand out to you, Mike, what do you think we need to talk about in the surfer? I mean, all of the movie. No. Um, I think the scene that really stood out to me was, uh, they also referenced it in the Q and a talking about how that was the first scene that he and, uh, the guy that plays the villain, I forget his name. Julian McMahon, Dr. Doom from fantastic four. Yes. Who is great in this movie,

[00:37:27] but the first scene they shot together was sort of the big face-off scene that happens like a third to three quarters of the way through the movie with the burger and the, you know, him trying to get cage to join their bay boys. Right. I think it's what they're called, uh, troop sort of, um, and this kind of big confrontation and everything. And, and, and it was fascinating. The most interesting thing to me about that was like all the flies that are everywhere. Right. That's like, they're constantly in the movie. They're in every, every scene, like in almost every scene. Uh,

[00:37:57] yep. And I was like, wow, this is such a, like a crazy, like physical manifestation of this, like Lord of the flies shit that he's pushing these boys to, or men. I mean, they're men there, you know, it's one, it's like sort of like that, uh, those like man boot camp, boot camp things that people pay $10,000 to get screamed at by former soldiers or whatever. Um, it's like one of those kinds of things. So it's not little kids. It's like adult men, um, that he's doing this with. And yeah, but I was like, man, these fly, like that is such a crazy artistic choice. Like that must've been so uncomfortable. There's all these fly, like Lord of the flies stuff.

[00:38:27] Uh, and then in the Q and a, they're like, yeah, those fucking flies were just there. Like this sucks. They, we all hated them. And it's like, it's such a weird thing that like the environment just, they were filming on a, on a, in a parking lot on a beach. Sure. So there was, there was lots of flies. Uh, and it's like, to me, it totally like worked. Like they did it on purpose and it really fed the like narrow, like thematic narrative of the film. Uh, so that's hilarious. Um, you know, as much as I despise the, like, sometimes the curtains are just blue thing. Uh, cause I feel like that's,

[00:38:55] that directly has led us to the current moment where humanities and arts don't matter. But like, what if sometimes the curtains are just blue, you know? Yes. English master Mike Cretcio saying sometimes the curtains are just blue. Wait, no, no, I take it back. Delete the recording. I didn't say that. Um, so yeah, that scene. Great. Yes. Yeah. That seems fantastic. Uh, yeah, I think the, in the first half of the movie, the, the slow unraveling of just like how he like Nicholas Cage is starting to lose everything. And you don't really realize like how quickly like everything is going away until

[00:39:25] it's gone. Um, but you know, he's with his son and his son, like they're trying to surf. They won't. And they're not allowed to surf like Julian Mann and like this other guy, like confront them and say, Hey, you don't live here. You don't surf, you know? And, uh, cage is like trying to warn these, like this other couple who's going on the beach at one point being like, Hey, you know, just a heads up there, you know, these locals down there. And at this point, cage has already lost like his car. And he's like, uh, he's gotten coffee spilled on him. So, and he can't change. And he's like, he's sunburned and he looks disheveled and disgusting.

[00:39:55] Uh, and so they're like, Oh, this like, you want some money, man? Like, uh, go away, please. Um, and he's trying to warn them about, uh, the guys at the beach and how it's, it's very like localized and they won't let you surf. Uh, they don't believe him. And then of course they go down there and, they get kicked out of the beach. Um, so yeah. And, but they don't stick around like the close cage does. He, he ends up sticking around. Um, but yeah, he loses the surfboard. they steal the surfboard and like put it on top of their thing. You know, he calls the cop and the cop is like, uh, what are you talking about kid? Uh,

[00:40:26] and you know, I think just the way it's like, I don't know, like he's being completely gas lit at every turn. Um, as like, yeah, that's not your surfboard. Like, Oh no, that's your car. The car that the homeless guy was in, like, you don't have a Lexus, uh, and so yeah, he's like losing all these things. He's like still sort of sane for a little while, but like every time he loses something, like you can see like a piece of his self just like being destroyed. Uh, and like the entire time he's like, whatever,

[00:40:55] I don't care. I just got to be able to call the real estate agents so that I can place the bid on my house, uh, so that I can raise the money to get that thing. Uh, because he's now in a bidding war between like an anonymous buyer who was like willing to pay a lot more than he can. Yeah. I mean the, the, the slow, slow like peeling away, like losing the items, having it be like the, the, the escalation of those things where it's like, yeah, it's sunglasses, like whatever, man, give me the binoculars. Right. And then, yeah. And then it's slow. It's the,

[00:41:24] the phone and then the car and then the wallet and then all this stuff. And then finally culminating in his wedding ring, like the, the, the last grasp of his former life, uh, kind of just like the destruction of him as a person, um, with through that is wild. Um, there's like a, like a Kafka aspect to it also where it's like, how would you, how would you prove to a cop that like, no, I promise I have Alexa. Like, you know, like, like if all those things are stolen from you, if your wallet's gone and your phone is gone and your car is gone, right. You know,

[00:41:53] like how do you prove to authority or anybody that like, no, no, no, this isn't my car. I'm not homeless. That's not my car. Like, you know, it's like, right. At a certain point he just has to accept it. Cause what else is he going to do? Uh, so yeah, I don't know. That was all really fascinating and, and, uh, intense really. Yes. And so by, by like the three quarter mark of the movie, you can see like cage is like almost questioning, like whether he ever had any of these things. Like he's like completely lost, like who he is. Uh, and I think the audience, like you as the viewer, like also are wondering, like,

[00:42:23] did he ever have these things? Like, like he's been like lied to for so long, but like everybody is like, everybody would have to be on it. And it turns out, yes, everybody is in fact, right. You know, it, uh, I do love when, uh, I think the phone losing the phone is my favorite bit where he like goes, he like has to charge his phone, uh, so that he can call the real estate guys. So, and he finds this, um, like coffee stand. Uh, and so he goes to the coffee stand and the kid in the coffee stands like, listen, I need you to charge my phone. And the kid's like, no, I can't do it, man.

[00:42:53] You need to be a paying customer or whatever. I, you know, I, I'm not going to do it. Uh, why don't you trade me your watch and I'll let you charge your phone. Uh, and so he, he does that and he gets a coffee and some, and we're like the last remaining, I think he had like Apple pay or whatever. Like he has like his wallets on his phone. So we can't actually pay for it. And he's promising to pay for it once the phone is charged. Uh, and so he like gets the coffee and it's like the last thing he has. And like, he walks away, it takes a sip and somebody just like waxed the coffee. Yeah. Spills it all over him.

[00:43:23] Yeah. Yeah. And then when he goes back to get the phone, the thing is closed and he goes back the next day and the kid's like, you never gave me your phone, man. What are you talking about? I've never seen you before. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And then basically once he, uh, drinks the like dirt water out of the sink in the bathroom. Yeah. That's it. All bets are off. He's full psychosis, full derangement. He's dehydrated. He's sick. You know, he's thrown up and all this stuff. Uh, and yeah. And then he's going to, I got like a huge laugh out of me when he is going to eat the dead rat first.

[00:43:53] Uh, and he like looks up and somebody's looking at him and he's just like, what? Like he's like so offended that this person would judge him for eating a dead rat. Uh, yeah. Like crazy. Yes. Uh, that's really great. And then, yeah, there's the scene you mentioned before where he's kind of like wandering from the parking lot, muttering to himself, talking about different pastas and things like that. Uh, which is very, very fun. But what that leads into, uh, is like him connecting back to his old self in some way. Uh, when he meets the woman that he talked to earlier,

[00:44:22] the woman who gave a jump to his car. Yeah. who's a photographer. Uh, and he sees it's like two or three days later and she sees him and she recognizes him, but like she recognized the like, man, this guy's been through some shit. Like what happened to you? Yeah. Yeah. And he's like completely disheveled. He's sunburned. He hasn't showered in days. He like looks terrible. Uh, and he's like muttering to himself incoherently in the parking lot. And she's like offering to like give him a ride to the hospital or whatever. Um, but like what he's seeing there is just like,

[00:44:52] Oh, you remember who I am. I am a person. Like I am, I am who I said I was. She, she shows him the picture she took of him while they were jumping the car from three days ago. And he, it like all comes back to him. And I think he even says that he has an, I had a name, right? Which we never learn as the audience, which is fun, but yes. Uh, yeah. And so it's, it's shortly after this where, uh, you know, he, he, when he goes to, uh, confront Julian McMahon and like his group of guys where he, uh,

[00:45:20] like tackles the guy who threatened him and his son earlier in the movie, uh, and brings him into the ocean and stuffs the dead rat down his, down his face. Uh, and it's like almost drowning him. Uh, and then Julian May and finally like pulls him off and they separate them. Uh, and then it's revealed that this was in fact, all part of Scali's plan is it's part of his like thing, his initiation with their group where it's like, you have to lose everything before you gain it all, you know, something like that. Right. Like you have to lose everything to prove who you are as a man. Uh,

[00:45:50] and the fact that Nicholas Cage didn't take the, uh, the burger that was offered to him and never left and was, and was constantly like, you know, there and continued to exist, uh, despite losing everything, uh, meant that he means that he's now one of them. Right. Before he can be a surfer, you first bus suffer, which is what I was saying that again. Right. Uh, kind of thing. Um, uh, and that's the whole, the whole bit. He's got to break them down before he could build them back up. It's, it's, it's intense. And cage,

[00:46:17] I think is like receptive to the group when they first, uh, when, when they embrace him, right. He's like, Oh yes, I found my people now. Like, you know, he's, he's gone off the deep end a little bit and now he's like kind of part of like one with them. And it turns out, yeah, no, the cop was one of them. The real estate agent that he saw was one of them. Uh, like everybody that he interacted with was in fact in on it. Uh, and like, even like the, the competing bid on the house was them, uh, you know, trying, trying to drive him insane.

[00:46:47] So like now he is getting the house. That's like part of it now. And so, yeah, he's hanging out, partying with the guys. He's one of them now. Uh, and then his son finally shows up. It's like, dad, you haven't been answering your phone for four days. Right. It's Christmas. Where are you? Cause yeah, it's, it's Christmas time. All this is in fact a Christmas movie. It is a Christmas movie. Yeah. Yeah. I think there, I think there's two like really incredible, like filmmaking moments in that, uh, sequence. The first one is, um, when, when, after they separated them and I don't remember just cage,

[00:47:17] like get hurt or whatever. They like, he's like in the shack and they're like explaining like, Oh yeah, we were in on it the whole time. And it's like filmed through water. Uh, it's like, like, like a, like a clear plane with water on it. Uh, yeah. And, and the whole thing is like shimmery and wobbly and it's like, Oh, everybody's underwater. Cause I think they drug him like, like he's like, he's like sort of hallucinating or that kind of thing. Right. Yeah. And it's this whole like, Whoa, you know, like, uh, like they talk about wizard of Oz in the Q and a,

[00:47:45] like it's kind of got that kind of moment, like, like the, in the poppy field, right. They're like, whatever, like there's this whole thing going on. Uh, and that was incredible. Cause it's like a, for a long time, like a whole scene filmed like that. Um, and then the, like once he's part of the Bay boys, like party montage fucking rips. That was so cool. I don't know what it was, what it was. The, just everything about it was so wild. Um, it made me think of the, uh, like party montage in talk to me when they're like with the little brother and

[00:48:13] they're like all doing drugs and they're like all taking turns with the hand. Uh, yes. It felt very similar to that, which also Australian movie. Um, so yes, I don't know. It was cool. It was cool is what I'm saying. Uh, so yeah, absolutely. Yeah, definitely. Uh, and so yeah, then the sun shows up and then, uh, the, the very end of the movie, the homeless guy, uh, makes his return. Uh, so like the sun's there now and like, they're about, they're about to go surfing, uh, which by the way, this movie is called the surfer. Nicholas cage does not surf until the very end of the movie. Uh,

[00:48:41] classic real surf Dracula moment. Exactly. Literally surf Dracula. Uh, he played Dracula once. Uh, but, uh, yeah, so they're, they're finally about to go surfing because they, when you go out onto the ocean, that's like the best, uh, spot to see their new house. Right. Like that. I could see it on the, like the view is supposed to be amazing. Uh, so they're all about to go and he's taken the, his son and it's like, no, it's okay. They're with me now. I'm one of them. Uh, and then the homeless guy shows up, uh,

[00:49:09] and he starts waving a gun around and he's threatening to kill them. Uh, and then it's cage like kind of snaps back into himself a little bit and is trying to protect his son and like realizes he needs to like distance himself from these guys. Yeah. There's a whole thing with like Scali is the reason, not necessarily like he didn't kill the homeless guy's son, but like, right. Started the dominoes of like why he ended up dead or something, uh, stole a girlfriend or what?

[00:49:37] I don't remember exactly the specifics of it. Cause it's also weird and skeezy and it's like a whole thing. And, uh, so the, the homeless man has been like camped in the parking lot waiting for his moment to strike basically is what he tells cage earlier in the movie. Yeah. And now he's back and yeah, it's a whole, it's a whole thing. And, and the, the sort of, um, like, I don't know, it was really intense the moment when, when they kind of argue cage, like kind of convinces them of him of certain things, like let some people go and all this stuff. Uh, and he tells like,

[00:50:06] he gets his son up into the water and he's like, just paddle. Don't look back. Uh, right. And it's sort of just like out of focus in the background. You see what's going on with Scali and the homeless guy. And it's like, Whoa, this is intense. And the homeless guy kills Scali and then kills himself. Uh, yeah. Right there. But yeah, no, he cage is able to trade when, when cage was staying in the homeless guy's car, uh, uh, after his car was stolen, uh, he like finds some remnants of, uh, his life. Uh, and like, he has this like shark tooth necklace that like was his son's and he still

[00:50:36] has it. And so he gives it back to him. Uh, and that's sort of what allows him to like that, that, that trade, like the homeless guy lets him and his kid like swim out to the surf. Right. Exactly. And they finally get to surf in the surf. Yes. Yes. They, they do get to surf in the surf movie. This guy, I mean, really, I would like to see a movie where Nicholas cage is a true surfer, like really ripping it up, like going on the waves. I think that would be pretty fun. I think that would be fun. Also. I do like how much the movie goes to great pains to tell us,

[00:51:06] man, you used to really rip it up when you were a kid. Right. Like so many times people are like, I remember watching you surf when you were a teenager or whatever. Uh, which is very funny. Yeah. I mean, that's the, that's also the backstory behind cage's character that we didn't really get into in this episode is that a cage grew up in this area. Uh, and so he grew up in this area. He like knows the area and, he has like a kind of a tragic past where his father, uh, killed himself. It seems like, right. And I think it was like out in the ocean or something like that. Like it was sort of on the same beach maybe. Uh,

[00:51:36] and so, and so he and Scali actually do know each other from when they were kids. Uh, and he recognizes Scali from like, like, like when he finds out at Scali, it's like, Oh, that guy, he was kind of a dick. Uh, yeah. Like later on, it's like, yeah, I know who you are. Uh, you know, shame about your dad mate, uh, or whatever. Um, it's like, you know, and he goes into this whole thing. Like you didn't, you never had a real masculine father figure growing up and that's why you turned out the way you did. that type of thing. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the, it's part of the whole don't live here.

[00:52:05] Can't surf here thing or don't whatever. Don't surf here. Um, that cage keeps saying like, well, I'm from here. Like he, like, yeah. And they're all being like, well, you don't live here now. You're not a local anymore. It doesn't count. Uh, and that's his whole, you know, journey to try to get back to the nostalgia of being from here. Right. Yes, absolutely. Uh, all right. Any other scenes in the surfer that you want to give a shout out to Mike or any scenes from the Q and a that you want to give a shout out to, you know, I did write some notes down from the Q and a, let me see. Yeah. Since I was the only one in the theater, I was like,

[00:52:35] I can take my phone out. All those other chums left the Bogart and the olive from Sabrina, the swimmer. Um, those were real quail eggs that he ate, which was crazy. That was somebody asked him because there's a scene where, you know, he hasn't been eating or drinking for the whole movie and he's going insane and he's wandering around the scrub around the, the, and he eats the eggs and the guy was like, what was it? What were those? And he's like real quail eggs. Yeah. What the fuck? That's crazy. And then, uh, yeah,

[00:53:04] the thing like right at the beginning of the Q and a, uh, there's a moment where I had that, like started having that profile, like, like in a just in real world in a society that valued arts, Nick cage would still be an ambassador and vice president of film. Um, it was the moment at the beginning of the Q and a where they asked him, I think about the script and like, what drew you to the, to this project. And he's like, Oh, I read the script and it, and it made me recall this Russian short story. I had written, what the fuck? This is some, some tiny little dumb movie.

[00:53:33] And you're talking about Russian short literature from whatever, whatever I think that was called the overcoat, which is a story. I don't know. Uh, but no one else out there doing it like him basically. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Um, so yeah, I hope that Q and a gets published or put somewhere because it was just fascinating. And it's, it's, I think, uh, Nicholas cage could have been in a real, in a normal just world would be a, you know, vice president of film. He'd be a film ambassador. He'd be at all the Academy events. He'd be everywhere talking about movies and why it's important to preserve old

[00:54:03] film and all this stuff. Uh, but instead he's a joke to a lot of people, which is unfortunate. It is unfortunate. It is really fascinating. I think when actors are big cinephiles, I think, I think it's something that you expect from certain directors. Like, yeah, we know that Quentin Tarantino likes movies. He talks about it nonstop all the time. That's all he talks about. It's in all of his movies. Yeah, exactly. Um, but when people like, uh, Nicholas cage, like he's somebody who talks about it, uh,

[00:54:29] very extensively and the stories go that like Tom Cruise is also somebody who is like very, very into movies. Like it's all he really talks about or does or whatever. However, in interviews, he's very diplomat. Like he doesn't really talk about that kind of stuff. Yeah. He's very, he's very like careful to like be like, Oh, well, you know, I just like movies, man. Uh, like movies and popcorn and all that great stuff. Uh, you know, and sometimes he'll like, it's a, it's a very rare, like Tom Cruise seal of approval when like he'll post about like going to a movie. Um, I think he recently posted like,

[00:54:59] I went to sinners and it was fantastic or whatever. Um, and that's like, Whoa, that's like, that's a huge boost for sinners. Like it's, it's an elite club that, uh, you get the Tom Cruise seal of approval, but he like watches everything. And I was just, uh, reading something like, you know, everybody in Hollywood like almost has like this big Tom Cruise story at some point in their career and somebody, and Zack Snyder was talking about how, uh, Tom Cruise saw the trailer for 300 and called him because he was so excited about the movie and wanted to like know how he made it and like all that kind of stuff.

[00:55:28] He was just very excited about the idea of 300 and then called him again when the movie was a hit. And it was like, just wanted to congratulate you on the box office, uh, of, of 300. Like the president. Yes, exactly. Yeah. He is the president of movies. And what's so funny is that I think it was Warner brothers, like the president of Warner brothers then called Zack Snyder and was like, Hey, just wanted to let you know the movie's doing great. Like great job. And Zack Snyder was like, yeah, I know it's Tom Cruise just told me. That's crazy. But yeah. And it is like every once in a while, like you see an actor,

[00:55:58] like Bill Hader is somebody who is also some like somebody who gets really into movies. He's done like a criteria and like, you know, adventures in movie going stuff and all of that. supposedly Jenna Ortega is like a big like movie cinephile or whatever. Um, when I want to write her as somebody who is, is very into that kind of stuff. But like, then you see like people like Millie Bobby Brown who like just flat out say, I don't watch movies. Yeah. Uh, and then the movies that they make are, are usually not very interesting. Um, so yeah, Nick cage, uh, still at the forefront, still doing his thing. Uh, and yeah,

[00:56:28] we love to see it. Uh, I, I was truly kind of like, like I, I've seen him talk about movies before, you know, I've seen him, I've, you know, watched a lot of cage interviews. I've seen him do Q and A's before. Um, but something about watching the surfer Q and a, where he just like launched right into it, uh, uh, in the, in some ways is kind of silly, but like in a endearing way, you know, I, I think is, is really fascinating. I think so too. Yeah. It's, it's, uh, has made these, these long time years all worth it building up to episode one 16. Yeah.

[00:56:59] And now we're calling it quits. That's it. That's it. Only because it's the last movie he's got so far. Yes. Uh, one of these days he'll have another one. Like I said, the John Madden movie, uh, is coming at some point, probably next year, but he's got like, I think three other projects in, uh, like, uh, post-production. Um, yeah, let's see. He's got a movie called the Prince, uh, coming out, uh, which is written by David Mamet. Uh, so that's something. Yikes lately, but okay, cool. Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't think Mamet's written any movie in a while either.

[00:57:28] So that's kind of wild. Um, but yeah, it's Nicholas Cage, J.K. Simmons, Giancarlo Esposito, Andy Garcia, Simon Rex, uh, could be fun. See what that is. Uh, then there's the Carpenter's Son, uh, which is a horror movie starring Nicholas Cage, FK, Twigs, and Noah Jupe, uh, who is the kid in the quiet place. Well, I'm surprised it's not another Jesus movie. Yeah. that title really makes it seem like it could be. Yeah. I mean, it could be, you never know. It could be a Jesus horror movie, which could be interesting. Uh,

[00:57:56] but I think the next thing we will probably see from Nicholas Cage is the Spider-Man noir TV show. Oh, that's right. Which it has been shot. It's in post-production. Uh, there's no release date announced yet for any of those projects, but I feel like that's the one that might come up next. Uh, supposedly it's going to be on MGM plus, uh, which that's not real. Why? Uh, yeah, I, I got to imagine they shifted over to Amazon prime just so people will watch it. Uh, because you know,

[00:58:25] it's MGM plus is owned by Amazon. So it would kind of just make sense. It's like, you want this to be a premier thing, Nicholas Cage playing Spider-Man noir. Uh, you know, I would put it on a service that people have, you know, as opposed to, as opposed to MGM plus, uh, which I think is, I think MGM plus might've been where they played that, that Godfather show also the making of the Godfather TV show. Yeah. The deal or whatever it was called, but not the deal. Something like that. Or the offer. I think it was the offer. I think it was the offer. Yeah. Yeah. that tracks, but it also could be a, like,

[00:58:53] how else do we get people to sign up for MGM plus other than put the Nicholas Cage show on there? Um, could be that, which I was going to ask, uh, how many movies ago was it when he was like, you know what? I think I'm done with movies. Was that after unbearable weight of massive talent? I think, I think it was, I think it was after unbearable weight. I believe it was like, yeah, I want to say it was around the time dream scenario came out. I think you're right. Yeah. I think it was like in an interview with that, for that movie where he was like, yeah, I've got like five or six movies that I'm still working on right now.

[00:59:23] And then after that, you know, I might shift over to television. I've been watching, I just finally watched breaking bad and it's very good. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, no, obviously he's still been making stuff and is currently filming stuff. Uh, so yeah, I don't think that's going to be happening anytime soon. Uh, however, if you wanted to make a TV show, I mean, he is making a show. He's doing Spider-Man noir, but he's just doing that in addition to making movies. Yeah. We'll let him have a Soderbergh retirement. Yes, exactly. Uh, but all right. Uh,

[00:59:52] should we do some letterboxd reviews Mike for the surfer? Yes, we shall. All right, let's do it. Let's see what the people have to say here. Uh, here's a three and a half star review from a friend of the show, Justin Liberty. Uh, Justin, please come on the show. That'd be cool. Uh, I assume he listens. He listens. yes. Justin says, relentlessly unpleasant amalgam of affectionate Ozploitation homage and very dark comedy that won't work for most people. I'm still not entirely sure if cage really force fed a man, a rat while saying you eat the rat or I hallucinate,

[01:00:22] but either way, good movie. Yeah. The one movie I had wanted to watch, uh, cause they also referenced it in the Q and a, and I've heard about it a bunch, uh, particularly from Elric Kane, pure cinema podcast host from New Zealand. So it talks a lot about Ozploitation stuff is wake and fright. Have you ever heard of that movie or seen that movie? I've heard of that movie. Actually, one of the other reviews references it as well. Uh, that's coming up. Uh, but yeah, no, I've heard of wake and fright. I've also never seen it. Uh, and that's one that, uh, is definitely on my list, especially post the surfer.

[01:00:52] There you go. I feel like swimmer wake and fright would have been a fun double feature, you know, but Oh, well next time. Yeah. Hey, at least we both watched the swimmer. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. And I'm, I'm glad this movie got us to do that. Cause the swimmer, we didn't really talk about it that much. Excellent. It's really good. Oh my God. We used to have movies. It's, it's such an insane movie. Uh, it's, it's really weird that like that came out in like mainstream theater. Yeah. Uh, but all right, here's a, here's a three star review from a clockwork Cody, uh,

[01:01:22] which reads how to buy a house in Australia. Step one, have the locals scare you into psychedelic meltdown. Step two, eat rat. Step three, bam, you own the house now. Yeah. I mean that, that, that sums it up. I think that that's how it is. Yeah. All right. And that is one more review here. It's a three star review from a director, Joe Lynch, a hypnotic existential homage to Ozploitation with the game, Nick cage, who is likely involvement got the movie greenlit and a smiling,

[01:01:49] sinister Julian McMahon from nip tuck in a beachside chamber piece that had some really wonderful surrealist touches and a subversively mystical score. Love the old school zooms and other seventies Aussie film flourishes that felt like wake and frights, Ted Kochek directing big Wednesday, a more subtle cage, but still had enough cage takes to satisfy a fan, but wonder if an actor who doesn't bring his usual decade, deep baggage, crazy roles to the story. I enjoyed riding its wave. And there it is. Uh, so yeah, that's the surfer. Uh, really good. I liked it quite a bit. Uh, I feel like,

[01:02:18] I feel like reviews were like a little bit tepid when I like walked into the theater. Like I was seeing some, like I, well not that many people had seen it up to that point. Cause obviously we were, it was the Wednesday before, but like the early reactions were like kind of mixed. But, uh, I remember the can reviews like being pretty positive and, I had a great time with it. I thought it was really cool. Those movies, but I think this is like a, a very solid,

[01:02:46] like just under that tier movie. You know, it's, it's leagues better than gunslingers. I can tell you that. Oh my God. Yeah. Different world. Yeah. I think this is not, uh, I feel like this will be the one that's like the real ones. No, you know, everyone, everybody knows about Mandy and pig, but like really it's the surfer, you know, it's got that kind of vibe for this, this era. I think, um, the post Mandy world, uh, that we live in. So yeah, I had a really, I'm really fun time. Especially coming out of gunslingers, you know,

[01:03:16] a little, little gun shy maybe about watching this movie. I'm being like, Oh no. it's like, Oh, do I even like Nicholas cage anymore? I don't know. Yeah. That's the point. Um, but no, it turns out he's great. And the mood, this movie is really good also. So yes, nice. Uh, all right. That is the surfer. I do like that. Uh, you mentioned a postman new world. And I feel like we've like said that a lot on the Nicholas cage podcast. Uh, and I do like that. We like, basically that's like the, uh, the differentiating point between like the first phase of Nicholas cage's career and the second phase it's pre and post Mandy.

[01:03:46] That's like the fulcrum point. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think you could, you could, you could do a, uh, later through, if we want to get tactical about it, uh, like a pre, we made it my trilogy post, we made it my trilogy and then post Mandy. I feel like, yeah, I feel like those are the distinct eras. I feel like after the, we made it my trilogy, we slide, we, the tax stuff happens. We slide into the DTV. Sure. I mean, it takes, it does take a while to get there though. Cause the, we made it my trilogies in like 96, 97. It does. Yeah, I know. Uh,

[01:04:15] and then he still has, I mean, there's still like gone in 60 seconds and there's still like ghost rider and national treasure and like movies that are like big blockbusters and things like that. And, you know, also like, you know, acclaimed dramas, movies like, uh, I don't know. The one that came to mind right now is the family man, which is not like an acclaimed drama, but I think is a solid. Okay. Time. It's a pretty good one. Real ones. No, you know, I don't want real ones. the family man's okay. The weatherman though. That's where it's at. Real ones. No, the weatherman. Uh, that's for the Rubinsky heads. Yes, exactly. Um, but all right,

[01:04:44] Nicholas cage in the surfer glad to, uh, I'm so glad that it happened so shortly after gunslingers that it's like, okay, we, we now have a good cage to go out on with the, with this one, you know, it would have been rough. It was like, if it was just like eight months of the gunslingers being the last movie we saw with Nicholas cage. No, it was three, two weeks, three weeks and we're, and we're back. We're back baby. Uh, yes. Uh, all right. I believe it's going to wrap things up for our episode on the surfer. Uh, Mike D where can we find you online this week? You can find me at MD film blog on, uh,

[01:05:14] letterboxed and blue sky. You can also donate to support the show on our Kofi page, which is Kofi. Dot com slash Mike and Mike pods, where you can donate $50 and pick a topic of the bonus episodes. And Mike might go to the movies, uh, 50 bucks. And we'll talk about any movie you want. Or series. Whoa. Final destination. I saw the trailer for that before surfer. It looks pretty cool. Oh yeah. Was that, was that your first time watching the, uh, final destination trailer Mike? It was a hundred percent. Oh boy. Looks good, right? Looks good. Can't wait. Uh,

[01:05:43] I don't know if you saw this come out today actually as of this recording, but, the new finalist nation, uh, has set the record for oldest woman to ever be set on fire. Uh, for this, uh, a, a 71 year old stunt woman, uh, came out of retirement, uh, to, uh, be the, uh, the grandma getting set on fire in station bloodlines. The movies are back. Yes, absolutely. Uh, so that's pretty cool. Well, love to see that. Yes, that's exciting.

[01:06:13] So to pay $50 and make us talk about the other five destination movies, that'd be cool. Um, and if you want merch, we have merch available on our red bubble, which is Mike and Mike pods. Red bubble.com. That's right. You can find me online. M Smith film blog on Twitter. I'm blue sky. I'm Mike Smith film on letterbox radio, Mike sandwich, Instagram. Uh, thank you so much for listening to complete works. I'm Mike Smith. That's my decree show. Don't forget to rate and review the show on Apple podcasts or any other podcast app. And if you want to contact us, you can tweet at us at complete works pod. That's W R K S no. Oh, and the word works.

[01:06:40] And you can find the rest of our podcast and rapture press alongside other podcasts, all kinds of comic books and movie news and all that good stuff. Our theme song was created by Kyle Cullen, who you can reach for your own podcast themes at Kyle's podcast, themes, gmail.com. And because this is the Nicholas cage season, our logo was designed by Jacob honey cuts or at Jacob honey on Twitter. Uh, the Roy Scheider season going on right now. And like I said, the next Nicholas cage episode is unclear. Uh, but the spider noir TV, show might be the next thing on the horizon. Uh, plus of course, check out Mike, Mike go to the movies.

[01:07:09] Thanks so much for listening guys. And thanks for getting in the cage.

Ep. 41 - Evasive Action (1998)

Related Episodes

Ep. 42 - Money Play$ (1998)

Mighty Morphin Power Rangers: The Movie (1995)

Cage Ep. 116 - The Surfer (2025)