Ep. 34 - The Myth of Fingerprints (1997)

[00:00:00] It's showtime folks! It's on bad hat Harry's. What was the weight of the car when you got it? You're not right from Rome, you just don't care. Benway! Oh sons of bitches. I didn't know. I didn't know.

[00:00:17] Welcome to episode 34 of The Complete Works season 4, a deep dive into the career and films of actor Roy Scheider. My name is Mike Smith and joining me on this journey across the Scheiderverse is my friend, co-host, and fellow Roy boy, Mike DiCruccio. How you doing today Mike? I'm doing great. It's another exciting day here in The Complete Works minds. We're doing it?

[00:00:43] Yes, absolutely. And we are really entering a new era of the Roy Scheider career. I think we've said that like every three episodes. This time I really mean it. Partially because now we are entering Roy Scheider's 1997, in which I believe he released eight movies. What? Yeah, there's a lot of movies in 97. This is like Nicolas Cage numbers here. Yeah, Eric Roberts numbers.

[00:01:09] Yes, absolutely. So yeah, no, a lot of movies in Roy Scheider's 97 and several years. Like it's weird because, you know, we're we're 30 ish episodes into the podcast and the movies have been pretty spread out for the most part over the course of like we started in 1964. It's now 97. It's been over 30 years worth of movies that got about 30 movies. And I think there's still like 30 movies left, but the time frame is a lot smaller.

[00:01:35] Yeah, I can't wait. It's going to be it's like 10 more years, right? Basically, pretty much. Yeah, I believe 2008 is the last Roy Scheider credit. So yeah, no, there's a lot of stuff to get into that. I am looking forward to hopefully finding some gems out of where we're going to see what happens. I think we're going to get a Stockholm Syndrome situation going by the end of this much like we had with a late period Nicolas Cage. Yes, absolutely. Which by the way, so by the time this comes out, the trailer will be released already.

[00:02:03] But I just saw that the trailer for the surfer is coming out tomorrow. And there's a there's a poster for it. And one of the quotes on the poster is the Nicolas Cage Renaissance continues. And I was like, should I be suing somebody for that? Yeah, wait a second. Didn't we copyright the term Nicolas Cage Renaissance or the Cage-a-science? Yeah. But any case, very much looking forward to the surfer should be a good time. But right now, Mike, let's talk about the Sundance Film Festival. Sure. Yeah. OK.

[00:02:32] So I think Sundance holds a really strange place in film culture because it takes place in January. So it's always the first like major film festival of the year. And in the late 80s, early 90s, it helped launch an indie film boom and the careers of several major filmmakers like Quentin Tarantino, Steven Soderbergh, Richard Linklater, Kevin Smith, the four greats as they're known. The pillars. The pillars of modern cinema. The festival still manages to hold on to notoriety.

[00:02:59] I think, you know, the saying the phrase like, oh, this film played at Sundance kind of means like, yeah, it's supposed to be good. Like that's, you know, that kind of means something still. But its significance like has waned since the 90s. It does still manage to get an occasional success story. Like Coda was a Sundance film that went on to win Best Picture and A Real Pain. This year was a well liked hit. Seems like it's about to win Kieran Culkin an Oscar, which again, that will have happened already by the time this episode comes out. So we can probably just confidently say, hey, Kieran Culkin won the Oscar. Neat.

[00:03:27] But for every movie that plays Sundance that goes on to have a longer shelf life and permeate pop culture, there are probably about 20 that get completely forgotten and often don't even get distribution. Or a lot of times a movie will get great reviews out of Sundance, get picked up by a distributor and completely get fumbled upon release. And today we're talking about one of those movies. And since Roy Scheider is in it, it's time to talk about the myth of fingerprints.

[00:03:56] Consider the nuclear family. The parents. Oh, the kids look good, huh? There are more of them than I remember. The children. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. It's almost one o'clock. You sure you don't want to sleep a few more hours? The significant others. It's nice to be out here. Jake! Get up here and kill this spider! She hates spiders. I got it. It's a complex system of highly charged particles. Where's my sister?

[00:04:25] When placed closely together. Can you just kiss me? These particles tend to interact unpredictably. Why can't you choose to be a normal human being? Becoming sources of friction. Don't they have any manners? Meltdown. Do you think you need to have had a healthy family life to have a successful relationship? God, I hope not. And explosion. I haven't felt this good since... I thought that was you guys. Yeah, it was.

[00:04:54] You know, I just don't understand it. No matter how old they get, your kids simply cannot come to terms with the fact that their parents still have sex. Oh! Oh! Stop it! Welcome home. Man, that was a big spider. It was so big. I think I saw a small dog counting its web. We are talking big. Sony Pictures Classics presents The Myth of Fingerprints, written and directed by Bart Freundlich.

[00:05:19] So, Roy Scheider stars in The Myth of Fingerprints as Hal, the patriarch of a large family who are all coming home to their small town in Maine for Thanksgiving. His wife, Lena, is played by Blythe Danner, who would have a hit with a different family reunion movie a couple years later with Meet the Parents. That's right. Yeah, absolutely. People forget that Blythe Danner is in Meet the Parents, but I didn't. She's there. Actually, isn't Hope Davis also in Meet the Parents? Now that I'm thinking about it. You know, I don't really remember.

[00:05:47] It may have been like at least 20 years since I've watched Meet the Parents, but I remember Meet the Parents being pretty good. I liked Meet the Parents. I didn't like Meet the Fockers. I remember that was my like contrarian opinion at 10 years old, was that Meet the Fockers was not as good as Meet the Parents. I feel like Meet the Parents was like a deep cultural touchstone. Yes, absolutely. I got grip. I got nipples, Nick. No, I got nipples Greg. So deep of a cultural touchstone. Can you milk me? Yeah. Circle of trust, the whole thing. You know? Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:06:16] So the four children in this movie include Noah Wiley from ER and more recently The Pit, which is a smash hit on HBO Max. Apparently, people are talking about the pit. I actually just watched episode one. It's pretty good. I might watch the rest. Big with parents all over. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. He plays Warren, who has not been back home in years. Michael Varton from Alias plays Jake and Julianne Moore plays Mia, which this is the same year that she was in the Lost World Jurassic Park. So we've really covered Julianne Moore's 97 on this podcast.

[00:06:46] Yeah. We're good for season five already. We did it basically. Yes, absolutely. And Laurel Holloman from The L Word plays the youngest daughter, Lee. From there, Arisha Barakas, who is also Deuce Bigelow's wife and Deuce Bigelow male gigolo. Okay. Yeah. She plays Daphne, Warren's ex-girlfriend. Hope Davis, who was also in The Day Trippers around the same time. Another big family ensemble movie. She plays Margaret, Jake's girlfriend. Brian Kerwin from the soap opera One Life to Live plays Elliot, Mia's husband.

[00:07:14] James LaGrosse, who was recently terrific in another Sundance movie, Good One. He plays Cezanne, a former classmate of Mia's who she forms an attraction to. And Chris Bauer from True Blood and The Deuce plays Jerry, a friend of the family. So the movie was written and directed by Bart Freundlich in his feature directorial debut. He actually met Julianne Moore during production of this movie. Six years later, they were married and they're still together. Wow. Yeah, that's nice. Good for them.

[00:07:39] He has directed several films since, many of which feature Julianne Moore, as you might imagine. His next film was 2001's World Traveler, which starred her alongside Billy Crudup and features an extensive Willie Nelson soundtrack. His most recent film was 2019's After the Wedding, which is also a Sundance movie with Julianne Moore, Billy Crudup and Michelle Williams. The Myth of Fingerprints was released on September 17th, 1997 in extremely limited release and did not really make a splash at the box office.

[00:08:08] I guess this was picked up out of Sundance. It was like a pretty well liked hit out of Sundance. People liked it at the festival. It won a few festival awards. It got picked up by Sony Pictures Classics. They were going to put it out in April and then they didn't. I think maybe I think maybe they were kind of positioning it like, oh, maybe this has some kind of awards potential. And as it got closer, it became clear that wasn't going to happen. So they just kind of released it in September and then nothing classic. Yes. So on a budget of two million dollars, this movie made about half a million dollars.

[00:08:35] So about five hundred thousand dollars at the box office opening to number one that weekend was the gay comedy in and out starring Kevin Kline and directed by Frank Oz, which I have not seen was very well received at the time. I've heard it's pretty good. All right. I don't think I've heard of it. Yeah, no, neither have I really. But look, I was reading about it and it seemed good. But it was one of those things was like this has potential to be. Yeah. Real dicey. Yeah. Also opening that weekend were the horror movie Wishmaster produced by Wes Craven,

[00:09:05] A Thousand Acres starring Michelle Pfeiffer and L.A. Confidential actually opened up this past this weekend. So that's pretty cool. Also in the top ten were David Fincher's The Game, The Full Monty, G.I. Jane, Money Talks, Air Force One and Men in Black. And it's 13th week. Even in as late as 97, we used to have movies. Yes. When do you think the cutoff is for when we used to have movies? Probably 2020. Just 2019 was the last year of movies. You're siding with Quentin Tarantino on this one, Mike.

[00:09:34] Just, you know, culturally, I think things have gone bad since then. And I'm not sure we'll recover. Yeah, that's completely fair. The IMD plot synopsis for The Myth of Fingerprints reads, A few days spent in close proximity to each other soon leads to family secrets and old resentments being revealed, which threatened to splinter an already dysfunctional family. Whoa. Yes, exactly. So this is a Sundance film again. Yeah.

[00:10:02] This really does feel like a prototypical Sundance film. Yeah. You know, we say like, oh, yes, we played at Sundance. And that kind of generally means like, oh, yeah, it's supposed to be good. But I think people have an idea in their minds of like what a Sundance movie is. And it's usually like pretty small scale indie dramedy, you know, maybe a couple of big stars in there, some TV actors, all that kind of stuff. A lot of family relationships. You know, Little Miss Sunshine is also a Sundance movie. And that's kind of that became one of their big success stories the last like 25 years.

[00:10:30] Yeah, it's but this feels very much just like, yeah, families going home for Thanksgiving. They're dysfunctional. They have things that they got to work through. And that's yeah, that's a Sundance picture. I got nothing. OK, sorry. So my D going into this movie, what were you expecting from the myth of fingerprints and what are your overall thoughts on the film? So I'd never heard of this movie at all going into it.

[00:10:55] And just based on the title alone, I was like, oh, is this like a like a double race for the double helix situation? Is this going to be like a a period science drama like we uncover fingerprints? Like you thought it was going to be like a forensic science. Just on doing zero research at all. I was like, I could see Scheider as like an old professorial person being like fingerprints aren't real. You know, something like that. That would be the best premise for the movie.

[00:11:24] Maybe that's what that Galileo movie was about. I don't know. We'll never know. He's just deciding. Yeah, fingerprints. They don't exist. A myth. Yeah. Well, OK. How to. Yeah. Professor Scheider. The title for this movie actually comes from a Paul Simon song, Mike. Really? The 1986 song All Around the World or the Myth of Fingerprints is a Paul Simon song. OK, sure. There you go. So, yeah, that was what I thought going into it at first. But, um, no, I did see on the Wikipedia page was like, oh, OK, it's it's a family dysfunctional family drama thing. Yeah.

[00:11:53] And, you know, sometimes when you sit down to watch a movie and it starts and you're just kind of like, you know what? Fuck this movie. You know, like I'm just not. I'm just not. OK, just not in the mood to watch a dysfunctional family drama thing. You're just like this sucks. So that's how I started. And maybe after about 20 minutes, I don't even know at what point. Like there's not even like a plot point or anything, but I just find found myself thawing. I was like, well, maybe not fuck this movie.

[00:12:22] Maybe maybe I'm kind of interested. Yeah. And you're just like, fine. And you're like crossing your arms and like maybe you will win me over. We'll see what happens. And then by the end, you're like, no, you can't break up with him. You're so like, oh, no. So I went on a journey with this film is what sounds like it. Yeah. But all that to say is that, yeah, it's fine, I guess it is. It is just it did feel like we said, the prototypical Sundance movie sort of like arch in that way.

[00:12:49] It's just like, yeah, of course, we're going to have a fight at the Thanksgiving dinner table. Yeah, of course. Somebody's going to break up with their husband over their long lost childhood crush or whatever. Like, you know, it's just like, yeah, of course, we're going to do all this stuff. Yeah. So there is that element of it. But also, I don't know, this cast is really good. They're all pretty charming. I was all pretty into all the performances. Other than I think like the script and story are like, it is it is the 8000th version of this film. It does feel like. So there's that.

[00:13:17] But yeah, I mean, so some of it was different and charming. Like, you know, that her Julianne Moore reconnecting with the old middle school kindergarten crush or whatever it is, I think. Yeah, Cezanne. Cezanne. Because she can't her shider ripped the end of the book out to use as kindling that she was reading. So she has to go into town to try to buy the book and can't find it. But he that guy has the book memorized. So he is like, let's meet up and I'll tell you what happens. And like, oh, that's pretty charming and cute.

[00:13:47] So, yeah, overall, I started out just like, fuck this. And by the end, I was kind of won over. Interesting. I feel like I almost had not necessarily the opposite reaction, but I feel like I was kind of more into the first half of the movie than the second half, I guess. You know, I think part of that is like, yes, this is a very familiar setting. This is a very familiar idea. You know, adult children going back home for Thanksgiving. And, you know, that's something that everyone can relate to and all that stuff.

[00:14:15] And you kind of see the different ways that their relationships have kind of fractured over the years. I think the movie does a pretty good job of setting up the family dynamics, actually, because it is a very large family ensemble that you're kind of dealing with. It is. And I feel like it very quickly kind of establishes like who all these people are, who they all are in relation to each other, all that stuff. And like how like their dynamic kind of affects everyone else. Right.

[00:14:39] And, you know, everyone has their kind of own, you know, different problems that they're kind of dealing with internally that then becomes like a thing that they have to lash out at the family towards and all that stuff. So I think that all pretty much works. I think the movie just kind of doesn't have much more beyond like the setup, I guess. And so by the like, I don't think it's bad by the end necessarily. But by the end, I was like, yeah, I'm ready for this to be done. I'm yeah, I'm ready for this to be over. Everyone basically ends in the same place they start. Yes.

[00:15:06] I mean, I think Warren and Daphne do get back together at the end, I think. Right. Right. So that's something that's something. But it's I don't know their whole thing. I don't even like know how to talk about what what happened to them specifically what happened to Daphne. Right. Right. So we'll see how that goes. But yeah, I mean, but it's like, oh, Julianne Moore, like frigid bitch at the beginning, frigid bitch at the end, like horny younger sister, still the horny younger sister at the end.

[00:15:33] Like, you know, it just all is everyone's mostly the same. We should actually talk about how horny this family is because it's a it's a literal plot point. Yes. And, you know, what's very, very funny. So the first time you meet Julianne Moore's character, she is having public sex with her husband on a train on the train on the train. And you're like, OK, well, that's you know, that's funny. That's a funny like character bits, you know, all that stuff. Minutes later. Yeah. The first time you meet one of the other couples, Jake and Hope Davis, they're also having

[00:16:03] public sex, you know, in a field like on their way to the house. Yeah. Next to the road or whatever. And and the movie does acknowledge this as like, oh, isn't it funny that we were both having sex, like having an embarrassing public sex or whatever. But for like a little while, it doesn't. And it's like it's really weird that like two separate characters had this the same introduction in this way. Yeah. And they're both late to dinner that day because of their public sex. Yes. And then the whole house fucks. Yeah. Everyone but Noah Wiley. Well, yeah. Yeah. Which is very funny.

[00:16:32] Yeah. There's a moment where like I think it's Jake and Hope Davis are having sex and like Julianne Moore and her husband can hear them. And they're like, well, then we're going to have sex also. And then Roy Scheider and Black Tanner can hear them. And so they start having sex. And then Noah Wiley, the poor single guy is just like, you know, stuck in his bed, like with the pillow over his ears. Yeah. And that was a pretty funny visual. I did. I did enjoy that. It is pretty funny, but it also just like what is going on in this movie? They're horny. They're horny.

[00:17:02] You know, what are you going to do? Absolutely. Yeah. No. So, uh, yeah, I mean, yeah, I think it mostly works. It's a solid enough time. I didn't, I didn't feel cheated out of the movie by any means. It's also pretty short. It's like 92 minutes or something like that. Yep. Which is nice. Um, it's just kind of like by the end of it, I was like, okay, I got what it was doing. I'm ready for it to be done. And then it was done and it kind of just stops. It doesn't really like have a, like a strong ending, I guess it kind of just ends. It absolutely has a waiter. I'll have two root beers kind of, like kind of ending.

[00:17:31] Uh, it's just, yeah, I honestly don't. I watched it two days ago and I'm not even sure really how it ends. Yeah. Other than Daphne and Noah Wiley getting back together. You're right. They get back together and I think that's kind of it. I mean, you know, at, yeah, I, I also watched it like two or three days ago. I don't know, but it is, it's such an unmemorable ending, I guess. Um, it feels like they should have killed Roy Scheider, right? Right. Yeah. I mean, I, there's, it's a weird, so what happened?

[00:17:57] We should talk about what happens at the beginning of the movie. Uh, you know, Warren is talking to his therapist. Noah Wiley is talking to his therapist and he's talking about how he's going back home. Uh, for the first time, like three years, he hasn't been back in a long time since Daphne. Right. So, and oh, a sibling has died. Okay. Okay. Yes. You're thinking it's a sibling that died or something happened, but no, Daphne is his ex girlfriend and they had a mat, like a big breakup. Then he's been like, you know, killing himself over it for the last three years. Like it's, it's really, really weighed down on him.

[00:18:26] And she's still in the, in the small town where his family lives. And so eventually he reconnects with Daphne. Like, you know, they, they go for a walk together and they, you know, just discover they still have feelings for each other and all this stuff. But she tells him about what happened and why the breakup really happened. It was that, uh, you know, they were at his house, um, with his family, with his parents and she and Roy Scheider were sort of like drunkenly dancing together in the hallway. And then Roy Scheider, uh, kissed her, um, you know, made a move on her.

[00:18:55] Uh, and then, you know, she's like freaks out leaves. Um, but then Noah Wiley reveals like, oh, I actually saw that happen. I was watching the whole time. Yeah. But I didn't do anything about it. And so she didn't realize that he was watching her. I want that he saw that. Right. Roy Scheider knew that he did, but it was just never talked about, never acknowledged. Like we never, like we were burying this forever. And then, yeah. So years later, these kinds of like resentments come out. Uh, and there's a moment where like Noah Wiley, like pushes Roy Scheider down, like into a table.

[00:19:24] Um, well, yeah, they, they start dancing there. It's after Thanksgiving dinner. They're all drunk. Yes. And Daphne's back again now too, like she's there. Right. Daphne has come back and I don't, I don't know if, I don't think Roy Scheider instigates it, but people are like dancing to the, you know, like slow dancing. Yeah. And I think the, his wife is like, Oh, Daphne did like whatever you got, you should dance. And they start dancing. And Noah Wiley Warren jumps up immediately as like, get your hands off her arm or tries to cut in says I'm cutting in. Yeah. And Roy Scheider doesn't relent. And he's like, dad, I'm cutting in and he doesn't do anything.

[00:19:54] So he shoves Roy Scheider and he like goes flying through the, uh, coffee table. And it's like, Oh, he should have died. Like they should have killed him. Right. Like he should have died. Uh, is really what happens when, you know, like the catharsis I think the movie is looking for with this assaulter coming back and refusing to let his like not letting go. I don't know. It felt so fucking weird. I mean, the other, the other thing is that the movie does pretty heavily imply that Roy Scheider is like maybe suffering from dementia or Alzheimer's. Um, yeah, you know, there, there is a moment where he is like, uh, he goes into someone's

[00:20:23] bedroom and is like talking to them, but it's as if he's talking to like a different kid. Right. He like doesn't, doesn't remember who that kid is. And so there's, there's that element of it too, where you, you know, he, uh, and that, that's something that he may have been dealing with for a while or maybe the family didn't catch it right away. And so, you know, there's, there's that possibility that like when he kissed Daphne, he wasn't like fully in control of his faculties or whatever. Right. So there, there is, uh, you know, layers to all this. It is a Sundance film after all. Exactly. Yeah. Uh, and so, yeah, that, that all happens.

[00:20:52] And then eventually, yeah, at the end, Warren and Daphne kind of get back together, but it kind of just ends like nothing. There's no real like resolution to what happens with Roy Scheider's character. I don't believe there's any kind of like reconciliation between him and Noah Wiley or anything like that. I think that's just kind of, it just kind of stops, which, you know, maybe that's a, you know, how, how life works. And that's why the movie, uh, works like that. I don't know. Yeah. But I think narratively it's a little unsatisfying towards the end is what I'm saying. Yeah, no, I agree.

[00:21:20] And yeah, I mean, I was, like I said, I started out just like outright rejecting this film. Uh, and I wasn't like in by the end, but I was, I had thought I had, you know, your icy heart. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, okay, maybe this is kind of interesting. Fine. Um, but yeah, I think the, and then the judging by the fact that I can't remember what happens after they throw Roy Scheider through the coffee table, I guess it's not that impactful. I mean, I think the movie's close to being over. There might be five or 10 minutes after that. Yeah.

[00:21:50] Um, so yeah, they, they throws Roy Scheider through the coffee table, Scheider gets up and kind of brushes it off. And then that's pretty much it. Warren and Daphne get together. I think Julianne Moore and that like childhood crush. They, I mean, her husband leaves her, I think before that. Right. He goes, he's like, I'm going home. Right. He just like gets out of there. Cause she's been really mean to him the entire time. She's a terrible person. There's, she's an awful person. Yeah. There's that one moment where, um, you know, after she meets Cezanne, uh, and she comes back home and asks her mom, like, do you know who this guy was?

[00:22:19] He says we were in school together or whatever. And, uh, the mom takes her up into the attic to like, oh, you idiot. Can't remember. You don't remember anything. I forget what she says, but basically about how you never hold onto memories or whatever. Yeah. And I forget exactly what, and she digs up like a, like Valentine they made in class together kind of thing. Okay. Yeah. Right. But she, but Julianne Moore's character has some line about like good memories are only there to remind you of who you used to be. It's like, Jesus Christ. I guess.

[00:22:49] I don't even know what to say to that. Take a big drag of a cigarette. And yeah, yeah. Um, so that's the kind of character she is. Yes. Yeah. But, and it's, she, you know, she's very like, she's pretty mean to her husband, which again, which was sort of a surprise considering the first time you meet them, they're having public sex on the train. So you're like, well, they must have a great relationship. Right. They must be doing fine. Um, but no, they're, they're pretty at, she's really at his throat a lot throughout the movie and he's pretty like, yeah, yeah, we're, we're just having, we're just here to have

[00:23:19] a good time with your family. Right. Yeah. Uh, and the rest of the family like realizes how, how horrible she is too. Yeah. Yeah. There's the scene. Uh, there's the moment where Elliot, her husband and her younger sister, uh, who seemed to be like, you know, she seems to be like trying to steal Elliot a little bit, kind of, or whatever, or they have a connection, uh, which seems to be that actually she's just nice to him. Um, you know, it's one of those things, but they come back with ice cream. Uh, and Julianne Moore's like butter pecan, the worst fucking flavor ever or something. Yeah.

[00:23:48] Um, and the sister's like, good thing it's for him then. And that's really the whole, like the whole thing, the whole relationship. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And so, uh, you know, all that sort of comes together in that way. What did you think of Roy Scheider in, uh, the myth of fingerprints, Mike, uh, as, as the dad in this family? Um, I think he's doing a pretty good job. Uh, he's a bastard and he's just an outright bastard. I love the family isn't, you know, I mean, that's the myth of fingerprints. Am I right?

[00:24:16] Um, but, um, where he, uh, is, oh, he has this whole thing about the family tradition of like shooting the turkey, like hunting a fresh turkey. Oh yeah. Yeah. And he just walks to town, it buys it, puts it on the side of the road and shoots it with a shotgun and carries it back into town, back home. It's just like, that was a good bit. That was funny. That's a pretty funny bit. Yeah. Yeah. He's, I don't know.

[00:24:41] He's like, you get the sense that he is this semi abusive, like old boomer parent, like kind of thing, you know? Uh, but never anything directly harmful other than what he does to Daphne. Um, but he is, uh, yeah, I mean, it's good. It's a good performance is what is where I'm going. Yeah. I believed it. Yeah, no, I think he's, he's very good in this movie, you know, and he kind of talked about, you know, trying to get it being involved in this movie and like kind of the writer Bart,

[00:25:09] Bart Frunlake, the director writer, he was kind of, you know, got a few big names in the cast to kind of round it out for his first film. And Roy Shatter was like, yeah, I did it because, you know, Bart wrote characters. You wanted to play, uh, you know, all of us knew it's unlikely this film will make money. Uh, but, but, you know, you're always looking for something this interesting, you know, he wrote characters that really grab you. That was his quote about this movie. And I think that I, you can kind of see what drew him to it. Uh, it's a very kind of different role than he got, than he gets to play in a lot of his more recent stuff that he's been doing. Uh, especially, you know, the last few years he's been on Sequest DSV.

[00:25:38] So, uh, you know, had a pretty rough time out of that, out of that show. So yeah, no, it's, it's a little bit different than when he gets to play usually. Um, and he is like, um, a major part of the ensemble, uh, which again, which, you know, we've talked about quite a bit in the last, like, you know, several Roy Shatter movies. Usually he's in like two scenes, pretty, pretty major scenes, but he's usually in like two scenes. Yeah. He's definitely, he's definitely, I think we talked about a little bit too, aging into

[00:26:04] those roles where like, oh, he gets attached or him being attached to a film can get it made kind of thing. Yeah. You know, and he seems to be throwing that weight around, at least in a film like this, which is pretty funny to think about the context of him being so fucking mad at DSV, uh, or Sequest DSV and, um, the absolute nonsense plots that it devolves into. And he pivots immediately into Sundance indie family drama. Like the, let me get back to the core of acting. This is the roots man. Yeah.

[00:26:33] No, he was sick of time and travel and aliens and he wanted to, he just wanted to be a potentially abusive father, uh, to this group of people. Uh, yeah. But I think he's given a really great performance in this movie. Um, you know, you can kind of see in him like how damaged all of the other kids are in different ways. Like as a result of like, you know, being their kids sort of thing. But at the beginning of the movie, he's also, he's sort of coming off as just like, he's a grumpy old man who just wants to have Thanksgiving with his family. Damn it. Not these strangers. Yeah.

[00:27:02] And the strangers being like, you know, his, his daughter's husband, uh, his children's spouses. Yeah. He's like, no, uh, you know, he just doesn't want anything to change necessarily, but yeah. But then he also gets these other moments where, you know, it, it is hinted that he may have some kind of form of dementia. Uh, and I think he plays that really well too. Yeah. I will say having, um, just like a white beard makes him look so old, you know, like in a, in a good way. He's been looking old in movies for a while at this point too.

[00:27:31] Since like 1976. Uh, but yeah, no, I agree. Yeah. He's been looking pretty old recently, but, uh, yeah, him having the white, white beard, uh, it really ends lens an air of, you know, elder statesman thing. Yes, absolutely. So how do you think this fits into the Roy Shatter roles I've seen so far, Mike? Well, it's interesting that, um, to go all the way back to the beginning, uh, to, uh, curse of the living corpse. He's the father now. That's true. He's not, uh, which is about a dysfunctional family reuniting, uh, for a funeral, but,

[00:28:00] uh, of the family of all these siblings, but now he's the father. And that one does involve deaths. Is that what you were looking for from this movie? Mike was, uh, I needed somebody to die. I needed the real drama. I needed somebody to go out a window or get shot with a living corpse is what I needed. That's what I'm saying. I needed somebody to, uh, some cop to come into the house and drink the wine and be like, this is tea the whole time he was, he was faking. Yes. But what else is there? I mean, yeah.

[00:28:29] I mean, we've been tracking the authority figure, the old older kind of character for a while. It feels just like, you know, uh, et cetera for that kind of category. So, um, what a loving maybe even though not his performance, but that film just being a family drama. Oh, sure. And kind of about like kind of the breakdown between of the relationship between these two people. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so there you go. Yeah. What do you got? I would maybe say the men's club, uh, or toss that in there as well.

[00:28:55] Um, which, you know, also kind of a big ensemble film, one that, uh, Roy Shatter is part of and has a pretty major role in, but he's not necessarily the whole focus of the movie. But, uh, I think a similar character sort of where he's, you know, I mean the men's club is, I could see a version of this where like, this is sort of a men's club sequel. I'm not, you know, but like, you know, if the men's club took place, you know, 15 years before this movie or whatever, like that was 86. So 10 years earlier, you know, I, I, that's a movie where he is, has a very strained relationship

[00:29:24] with his family and is kind of going out on the town with these guys in order to try to reclaim some part of himself. And I could sort of see that character being this character within 10 years. Right. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so the men's club is one. And I would also, I mean, just in terms of like being kind of a, you know, small scale domestic comedy drama, uh, Sheila Levine is dead and living in New York, uh, is also one. Um, true. That movie rules. That movie's great.

[00:29:53] Uh, I don't, I think, I think it's much better than, uh, the myth of fingerprints, but I did like this one too. It's solid. Also a very horny movie. Also a very horny movie. Yes, absolutely. That one has another Roy Scheider sex scene in it. Tracking the deaths, the shorts and the sex scenes. Yes. Uh, are there any other scenes or, or moments in the myth of fingerprints that stand out to

[00:30:22] you, my name that you feel like we need to mention? Um, let's see. Not real. I mean, I do, like I said, I watched it a couple of days ago and it's already mostly pretty gone. Yeah. It's, it is unfortunately a very forgettable film. Um, it's, it's a totally fine movie. It's, it's, it doesn't like, you know, I was not upset that I watched it. It's a, it's a relatively pleasant watch, but it kind of leaves your head, uh, shortly after you watch it, I think. Yeah. Yeah. It's neat as a sort of, um, cultural artifact of 1997, you know, no, no cell phones yet. We're so close. Sure.

[00:30:53] I don't know. It's like the whole part of the whole thing that Julianne Moore that can just like disappear for the whole day, you know, right? She goes, says on and like, that's it. She's gone. Right. Just crazy. Yeah. She disappears for the day. It's like, okay, but you're coming back by six. Right. And he's like, what for what? Fucking what? And he's like for Thanksgiving dinner. Like, yeah, what do you fucking want from me? Person that loves me. Whoa. Okay. No, I was cool. Oh, he's good in this. Again, I just watched the first episode of the pit and he's really good in it.

[00:31:22] Uh, I'm just going to throw that out there. The pit. Uh, I might become a pit guy, Mike. Hell yeah. Yeah. Big, big pit head. Uh, yeah, I, I, there's, there's a growing community of pit heads on the, on Twitter. Yeah. No, it's, it's become a thing. Um, yeah, that's pretty good. Did you know, I guess, um, it's being sued actually. Um, I think I heard this by Michael Crichton, right? Or his estate. Yeah. The estate of Michael Crichton, because I guess originally it was being developed as like a spinoff to ER or like a sequel to ER centered on Noah Wiley's character. Right.

[00:31:51] And then at some point they reworked it. So it was just a different hospital drama that happens to start Noah. It's not different. It legally distinct enough. Yeah. Basically. But what's kind of cool about the pit, I'm just gonna throw this out there. Are you familiar with like the structure of the show at all? Mike, isn't it like a real time? So it's basically like, what if ER was 24 and it's every episode is, you know, it, it is, it have the clock though. No, it doesn't. That would be incredible. Uh, but yeah, basically it's like a 15 episode season, uh, which in the streaming

[00:32:20] age, unheard of, unheard of, uh, a 15 episode season. And it takes place over the course of a 15 hour hospital ship that starts at 7am. Uh, and so, yeah, it's like one day in the hospital is the whole season of the show. And again, I've only watched one episode so far, but I'm kind of hooked. It's pretty nice. Uh, and Noah Wiley also good in this movie too. I feel like he was somebody who, uh, I was, I never watched ER cause I was, you know, that was a big show when I was like six. Yeah. I was too young also. Yeah. I was a little, I was a little young for ER.

[00:32:47] Um, but I did watch him for a little bit on falling skies, uh, which was a show I really wanted to like, uh, I remember that name. It's like, I assume an alien thing, but I've never seen it. It was basically a, what if the walking dead was aliens instead of zombies was, was kind of the pitch for the show. Okay. Noah Wiley was the star of it. And I was all in on that premise. I was like, hell yeah, I want to see, I want to see the walking dead alien show. And yeah, I think I watched the entire first season of falling skies and yeah, it's not very good.

[00:33:16] Unfortunately, unfortunately, but it ran for like four or five seasons. It like, we're just kind of quietly chugging along on TNT for a while. Um, so it, uh, somebody must've liked it. I guess. Hell yeah. We stand. Yeah. We have no choice, but to stand falling skies. But yeah, so that, that was kind of my main like context for Noah Wiley, but he's very good in the myth of fingerprints. I think he's really solid in this movie. Yeah. Is there any stuff, any scenes that stood out to you? I mean, I think his, uh, his reconnection with Daphne is pretty nice.

[00:33:46] Um, they get, they have like a coffee shop date, right? But they hang out for a while and then go for a walk. And I think them kind of realizing, uh, that, uh, you know, they, they liked each, they never stopped loving each other. And like the whole breakup was like, he never really, or I guess he did know why she broke up with him because he did see the Roy Shatter kiss, but like, he'd never like put it. Uh, yeah. Yeah. It's this guilt of never, of not, of him not having done anything about it. Like he didn't try to stop it. He didn't say anything.

[00:34:16] Right. And then her like shame or just like, I can't be near this family. Uh, so that's like what, but then it's like, Oh, you had, if we communicated and now they have, and they can work through these things, right? Yes. Uh, and so I think their, their relationship is nice. Uh, Mia and Cezanne is kind of a fun dynamic. I liked seeing James LaGrosse, uh, in the movie. That was cool. Uh, yeah, you know, I, and I liked, uh, you know, when, um, you know, we mentioned before that both Hope Davis and Julianne Moore are both like out having public sex the first time you see them. Yeah.

[00:34:45] And then Hope Davis like tries to connect with Julianne Moore over that fact. Uh, she's like talking to Lee about it, the youngest daughter and, and Lee's like, Oh, isn't it funny that you guys were both having sex? And Julianne Moore's like, like, keep that private. What are you talking about? Yeah. I'm not allowed to have fun in this movie. Yes. Uh, yeah. I, I love Julianne Moore as an actress and you know, I think she's doing a good job like, you know, doing what she's supposed to be doing in this movie, but she comes across so cold. Uh, I did like the two stoner friends from across the street.

[00:35:15] Like I've never grown up. Yeah. And one of them was Chris Bauer from, uh, the deuce true blood, all that stuff. Um, yeah, yeah, he was, they were fun. And I think the first time, like when Warren comes home, instead of going home at first, he just goes to hang out with them for a while. Yeah. Yeah. I forget what, uh, what they're talking about when that first conversation, when his brother comes to get him, but it's very like stonery, like, right. Yeah. Yeah. It's something. Yeah. Uh, it's something about twice baked potatoes. I remember that part. Yeah.

[00:35:43] That was like, you know, what do you call those things where you take the, you take the potato out and then you mash it and you put it back in the potato. So it's like twice baked. And I was, and I was waiting for them to be like, I'm feeling twice baked right now, but they don't go quite that far. Yeah. It's not that hard of a comedy, but they're almost there. Yeah, exactly. Uh, all right. Any other thoughts about the myth of fingerprints, Mike, or should we start wrapping this up? No, I think, um, I think I feel a little bit robbed that we didn't get the period science,

[00:36:11] uh, conspiracy thriller about how, about how fingerprints aren't real. Uh, like just imagine Roy Shatter yelling. They knew the whole time. Yes. They knew all along, but he's talking about. I think it's time to open up final draft, Mike. I think it's time for you to start writing the screen. I think you're right. Uh, but other than that, yeah, it's a fine movie, I guess. Yeah. It's an, it's an okay enough time. Uh, you know, it's, uh, available or actually no, I, the other movie that I watched was available streaming.

[00:36:39] Uh, this one's not available streaming right now, but I'm sure you can find it through other means we did around. Yeah. Uh, and right now I've got some letterbox reviews, uh, for the myth of fingerprints. The first one is a two and a half star review from Chris file, Julianne and hope Davis have embarrassing public sex separately in the first 10 minutes. That's the, that's the whole review. There's not a lot of reviews in the fingerprints. If you might, uh, if you, you could imagine, I could guess. Yeah. Uh, here's a half star review from beam ish 13.

[00:37:05] And Bart friend lick is the poet laureate of trash films about white East coaster malaise that signify absolutely nothing. Meaningless scenes of small town weirdos, a ridiculous amount of public sex and characters who are neurotic for the sake of creating conflict with one another makes this an endurance test and incredible waste of a great cast to forcing Roy Scheider in the twilight of his career to make hound dog eyes at eight millimeter home movie films and give stupid, somnambulistic monologues should be a crime. Damn. I don't think anyone was forcing Roy Scheider. I think he liked the script. I think he was into it.

[00:37:35] Seems like he was into it. Yeah, exactly. Uh, and I got one more. It's a two and a half star review from cinema snob, which reads a dysfunctional new England family gathers for Thanksgiving. The youngest son hasn't been home for years. There is never a movie about a functional family gathering for the holidays and come to think of it, who truly has a totally normal family? Whoa. Hashtag deep. Much to think about. Many such cases. Yeah. Uh, all right.

[00:38:02] And that's going to be it for this week's episode of the complete works. Mike D where can we find you online this week? You can find me at MD film blog on blue sky and letterbox. And if you would like to donate the sport show, you could do that on our coffee page, which is coffee.com slash Mike and Mike pods. And if you want merch, we have merch available on a red bubble, which is Mike and Mike pods dot red bubble.com. That's right. You can find me online at M Smith film blog on Twitter and blue sky. Mike Smith film on letterbox radio, Mike sandwich Instagram. Uh, thanks so much for listening to complete works. I'm Mike Smith. That's my decree show.

[00:38:32] Don't forget to rate and review the show on Apple podcasts or any other podcast app. If you want to contact us, you can always tweet at us at complete works pod. That's W R K S no O and the word works. And you can find the rest of our podcast and rapture press alongside many other podcasts about kinds of comic books and movie news and all that good stuff. Our theme song was created by Kyle Cullen, who you can reach for your own podcast themes at Kyle's podcast themes at gmail.com. And our logo was signed by Mac V or at fearless guard on Twitter. Next week, we are talking Roy Scheider alongside Gary Busey in the direct to video action movie

[00:39:02] Plato's run. Oh boy. I will say, uh, it's kind of fun. I had a good fun. It's got, it's got landmines. I'm in. Yeah. Genuinely. That's that's all it takes sometimes. Uh, did you know, Mike, there's actually two direct to video movies with Roy Scheider and Gary Busey, uh, in, in 1997. So we're going to be coming up on the other one pretty soon. Actually. God. Uh, remember to check out other podcasts. Mike might go to the movies for all kinds of other movie related stuff, including recent

[00:39:31] releases, ranked list is general discussions and a lot more. Thanks so much for listening guys. And remember to always Royd between the lines.