Ep. 22 - Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters (1985)

[00:00:00] It's showtime folks! It's on bad hat Harry. What was the weight of the car when you got it there?

[00:00:06] You're not right or wrong. You just don't care.

[00:00:09] Benway! Oh sons of bitches. I didn't know. I didn't know.

[00:00:22] Hello and welcome to episode 22 of The Complete Works season 4, a deep dive into the career and films of actor Roy Scheider.

[00:00:32] My name is Mike Smith and joining me on this journey across the Scheiderverse is my friend, co-host, and fellow Roy boy, Mike Triccio.

[00:00:39] How you doing today Mike?

[00:00:40] I'm doing great. Here we are halfway through first year, right? We're going by weeks, you know?

[00:00:47] Yeah, episode 22.

[00:00:49] Yeah, so actually...

[00:00:50] Oh, 22? I thought you said 24.

[00:00:51] Even further.

[00:00:52] Wait, what?

[00:00:53] No, it's 22 of Complete Works season 4.

[00:00:55] Oh my god.

[00:00:56] But there are 52 weeks in a year, so 21 or that would only go to 41.

[00:01:01] Don't worry, start over.

[00:01:02] So forget it.

[00:01:03] 26 would be the halfway point.

[00:01:04] Forget it. It's all a shambles.

[00:01:06] It's all a wash.

[00:01:07] I'm so fried from our Hubie Halloween episode.

[00:01:10] Yeah, this might be the biggest podcast whiplash we have had in quite some time.

[00:01:15] Where we started, we just recorded an episode with Vin Craig about the Adam Sandler movie Hubie Halloween,

[00:01:21] which is available on Netflix right now.

[00:01:23] And now we're going to be talking about something very different.

[00:01:26] Yes, we took a break, got some water, and here we are, podcast time travel, recording this episode right after that one.

[00:01:33] Exactly, yes.

[00:01:34] So today, we are talking about a movie that Roy Scheider is not technically in.

[00:01:40] And when...

[00:01:41] Define in, you know?

[00:01:43] Define in.

[00:01:44] Yes, what do you conceive of when you think of in?

[00:01:47] Define.

[00:01:47] Uh, and when you watch the movie today, most people are watching a version of the movie that actually doesn't really involve him at all.

[00:01:54] Yeah.

[00:01:55] So, so why are we talking about it?

[00:01:58] Uh, well...

[00:01:59] It's on the Wikipedia page.

[00:02:01] It's on the Wikipedia page. We have to.

[00:02:02] When, when today's film was released in 1985, even though Roy Scheider is not physically in it, he did provide narration for it.

[00:02:11] And, uh, during its theatrical run and when it hit VHS, that's how people saw the movie, with Roy Scheider's voice.

[00:02:17] And then, when the movie was released on DVD in 2001, it just wasn't Scheider's voice anymore.

[00:02:24] Just some other guy.

[00:02:26] Just some other guy.

[00:02:26] Instead, an uncredited actor, who Paul Schrader later revealed was photographer Paul Jasmine, laid down a new voice track for the movie.

[00:02:34] And then, many years after that, a 2008 DVD was released that featured both cuts of the movie, as well as a cut with Japanese narration provided by the film's lead actor, Kanogata.

[00:02:48] These days, if you're gonna watch today's movie, the version with Japanese narration is kind of the default version, which makes sense considering the rest of the movie is also in Japanese.

[00:02:59] Yeah, yeah.

[00:03:00] It definitely feels more natural for the accidental five minutes I watched before there's narration and realized that's, that's not Roy Scheider talking.

[00:03:10] Hey, when's Roy Scheider showing up?

[00:03:11] I thought he was narrating this thing.

[00:03:12] Yeah.

[00:03:13] Uh, luckily, all three versions of the film are still readily available on the Criterion channel.

[00:03:19] They are streaming right there.

[00:03:20] So, we were able to watch the version with Roy Scheider's narration.

[00:03:24] And since he's in it, technically, uh, we've got to talk about Mishima, A Life in Four Chapters.

[00:03:31] He was an intellectual who advocated action.

[00:03:37] He was a rebel who fought for tradition.

[00:03:42] He was an artist who shocked the world.

[00:03:48] Francis Ford Coppola and George Lucas present a new film by Paul Schrader.

[00:03:56] Mishima.

[00:04:12] His writing shook the soul.

[00:04:16] His flamboyance captivated a generation.

[00:04:21] His vision challenged the conscience of his time.

[00:04:28] And on November 25th, 1970, his life became the ultimate expression of his art.

[00:04:40] Mishima.

[00:04:45] All right.

[00:04:46] So, Mishima, A Life in Four Chapters is a Paul Schrader film from 1985 about the life and work of Yukio Mishima, a Japanese author and eventual militia leader.

[00:04:56] Uh, we've actually talked quite a bit about Paul Schrader on this podcast, Mike.

[00:05:00] Yeah.

[00:05:00] He's come up a few times.

[00:05:01] Nicolas Cage, of course, starred in Bringing Out the Dead, which he wrote, uh, and Dying of the Light and Doggy Dog, which he directed.

[00:05:09] Doggy Dog, you were a huge fan of that movie.

[00:05:11] Big fan.

[00:05:11] I made my top ten for the end of the podcast, top ten Cage movies, I think.

[00:05:15] Yes.

[00:05:15] Yeah, it did.

[00:05:16] Uh, and also Jeff Goldblum starred in Adam Resurrected, which is also a Paul Schrader movie.

[00:05:20] Uh, so really Michelle Yeoh is the odd one out here.

[00:05:22] She's the only one that has not been in a Paul Schrader film.

[00:05:25] Yet.

[00:05:25] Um, yes, yes.

[00:05:27] She's still making movies.

[00:05:28] He's still making movies.

[00:05:28] It could happen.

[00:05:29] Yeah.

[00:05:30] It's definitely not a very small window of time left.

[00:05:34] Um, but yeah, I think, I think of all the directors possible, the one that I would not have expected to be in three of the American, you know, the three American seasons that we've done, American actors.

[00:05:46] It'd be Paul Schrader.

[00:05:46] It's like, I don't know.

[00:05:48] It's such a weird overlap, I guess, in, in all the different time periods that those three actors are active.

[00:05:53] So yes.

[00:05:54] You know, uh, and I think, and I think, you know, for the most part, those movies that we just listed are all kind of later period Paul Schrader movies.

[00:06:00] Uh, and they all sort of occupy a very weird space in his career because he really came back in 2018 with first reformed.

[00:06:07] Like that was kind of seen.

[00:06:08] I mean, that movie's fantastic.

[00:06:09] Uh, we're both big first reformed fans and that was kind of seen as like a big Paul Schrader comeback film.

[00:06:14] Uh, after many, many years of like direct to video stuff, you know, the dregs of whatever.

[00:06:20] Uh, yeah.

[00:06:20] I mean, dying of the light, the whole back backstory behind that movie that they like announced it and all that shit.

[00:06:25] Yes, absolutely.

[00:06:27] There was the canyons, uh, which was like the Lindsay Lohan movie, uh, co-starring James Dean, the porn star, uh, which, uh, got awful reviews.

[00:06:34] People hated that movie, but Paul Schrader had a very long career before that.

[00:06:38] Uh, and he got his start in the seventies writing films like taxi driver for Martin Scorsese or obsession for Brian De Palma.

[00:06:44] Uh, and then he broke into directing with movies like hardcore American gigolo and cat people.

[00:06:49] Uh, he's somebody who was like absolutely present for the kind of film brat new Hollywood era of the seventies, but always kind of seems like he's on the outside of it a little bit.

[00:06:58] You know, did you mention blue collar, right?

[00:07:00] Is that a, uh, I have not mentioned blue collar, but that's also a Paul Schrader joint.

[00:07:02] That's a Schrader joint.

[00:07:03] Yeah.

[00:07:04] Yeah.

[00:07:04] So yeah, he's definitely around, but I feel like the sort of popular culture perception of that time period does not include Paul Schrader.

[00:07:12] Like, like, do you know the screenwriter of taxi driver?

[00:07:14] If you're just a normal human, I don't know.

[00:07:16] Right.

[00:07:16] Like, you know, it's a Martin Scorsese movie.

[00:07:18] You don't know that it's written by Paul Schrader.

[00:07:19] Right.

[00:07:20] Exactly.

[00:07:20] Uh, and that's the thing.

[00:07:21] He obviously knows and worked with many of the iconic filmmakers of that era, but just somehow seems a little bit removed from it.

[00:07:28] I mean, I think when you think of that era, there's like kind of five big filmmakers who were all buds that you kind of think of.

[00:07:33] It's like Steven Spielberg, Martin Scorsese, George Lucas, Francis Ford Coppola, Brian De Palma.

[00:07:38] Right.

[00:07:38] Like those, those like five, like the film brat dudes, uh, who all like went to school together, started making movies, like, you know, working for Roger Corman and all that stuff.

[00:07:45] And Paul Schrader was there.

[00:07:47] You know, he was part, he was part of it.

[00:07:48] Yeah.

[00:07:48] Just, but definitely not talked about as much, uh, in terms of like that group of people.

[00:07:52] Uh, which is why when he set to work on an entirely Japanese language film about a right wing militia leader that many Americans were likely not that familiar with.

[00:08:01] One of the main reasons he could get funding for it is that it was backed by Francis Ford Coppola and George Lucas, uh, who each helped produce the film under American Zoetrope and Lucasfilm.

[00:08:12] Uh, so when you watch the movie, like it opens with their credit, Francis Ford Coppola and George Lucas presents a Paul Schrader film.

[00:08:18] Which is interesting.

[00:08:19] Like, cause I think it, I think it also has the American Zoetrope logo first or whatever.

[00:08:23] It's one of the, it's one of the first things you see.

[00:08:25] Yeah.

[00:08:25] So then when it said like Francis Ford Coppola and George Lucas, I was like, huh?

[00:08:29] And I like steeped my fingers and leaned forward.

[00:08:31] It became very interesting.

[00:08:32] Yes.

[00:08:33] And actually George Lucas being involved is actually why Warner Brothers got involved.

[00:08:36] Um, you know, they, uh, they had a distribution rights over his, uh, film THX 1138 before he made American graffiti, before he made Star Wars.

[00:08:44] It was his very first movie.

[00:08:45] Uh, and he was constantly criticizing them over how they handled it.

[00:08:49] Uh, he was constantly like, you know, just like, oh, Warner Brothers really mishandled the, like the release of THX 1138.

[00:08:54] Never got the audience it was supposed to get.

[00:08:55] And so they want to try to mend their relationship with George Lucas, uh, all these years later.

[00:08:59] Uh, and so they helped kind of back this movie.

[00:09:02] They, uh, picked up distribution or whatever it was, uh, so that this movie could get released.

[00:09:06] Uh, how they come crawling back.

[00:09:08] Yeah.

[00:09:08] Right.

[00:09:09] Some real Zazz Lab energy there.

[00:09:11] Yeah.

[00:09:11] Absolutely.

[00:09:12] Did you hear about that?

[00:09:13] They like gave Christopher Nolan, like a $1 million check, like for residuals on tenant or something as like in a way to like appease him to try to bring him back.

[00:09:21] Uh, because he was, cause Nolan was like a WB filmmaker.

[00:09:23] For so long.

[00:09:25] And then left and like made Oppenheimer with universal made a billion dollars and won the best picture.

[00:09:29] Uh, and now he's making his next movie at universal, but he's like, I'll take the check.

[00:09:34] Uh, that's great.

[00:09:35] Fuck off.

[00:09:36] Yeah.

[00:09:37] Good for him.

[00:09:37] You know?

[00:09:38] Yes, absolutely.

[00:09:39] Uh, so Schrader actually worked with Mishima's widow, uh, during some of the production of this movie.

[00:09:44] Uh, but then she actually turned on the movie, uh, leading a boycott of the film along with several other right wing groups in Japan.

[00:09:51] And after they discovered the movie sort of implies that Mishima might've been gay.

[00:09:55] Uh, it's like kind of implies, well, you know, it's, I mean, yeah, I guess.

[00:10:01] Sure.

[00:10:01] Yeah.

[00:10:01] You know, it's, it's, it's definitely very present in the movie.

[00:10:04] Uh, and so the movie was actually withdrawn from the Tokyo international film festival and it was never actually officially released in Japan.

[00:10:11] Yeah.

[00:10:12] It has aired on Japanese cable, but with certain scenes removed to get rid of those implications.

[00:10:18] Fair.

[00:10:19] Yeah.

[00:10:19] I mean, I, I was thinking about that too, with regards to cultural impact of, of the, the real life human of Mishima.

[00:10:26] Like somebody that is so prolific and venerated, uh, as an artist, right.

[00:10:30] And, and like one of the greatest post-war Japanese writers of all time and everything, won all these awards and everything.

[00:10:36] Yeah.

[00:10:36] And then also tried to lead a right wing coup.

[00:10:38] Like just seems like, uh, that, that kind of person would just be memory hold by a country.

[00:10:44] She's like, we do not want to acknowledge this guy exists.

[00:10:46] Uh, and I make sense that they would, this was like a January 6th esque situation.

[00:10:50] Exactly.

[00:10:51] Yeah.

[00:10:51] And we were just going to censor this person that you never lived.

[00:10:54] Forget about it.

[00:10:56] Right.

[00:10:56] Exactly.

[00:10:56] It's a, and it's a weird, like, uh, you know, how do you, like you want to learn about this?

[00:11:01] Like this is a major figure in history, but yeah, from what I've been kind of reading, like, yeah, Japan, like a lot of Japanese people at this point, like, you know, decades ago,

[00:11:08] decades later, just don't know that much about Mishima because it's just never talked about.

[00:11:11] It's like not taught in schools or anything like that.

[00:11:13] Yeah.

[00:11:14] It makes total sense from a cultural standpoint, you know?

[00:11:17] Yes, absolutely.

[00:11:18] Uh, but Roy Scheider serves as the film's narrator and Ken Ogata plays Yukio Mishima throughout the movie.

[00:11:24] Uh, from there it is a wide cast of entirely Japanese actors.

[00:11:27] Uh, I was trying to see if I knew any from our Michelle Yeoh season since there were a few Hong Kong, Japan productions, uh, co-productions.

[00:11:34] No such luck.

[00:11:35] I didn't know.

[00:11:35] I didn't notice anybody.

[00:11:36] Uh, it's possible that they're there because it would have been like around this, this time, you know, this is 85.

[00:11:41] Michelle Yeoh is making movies at this point, but yeah, I didn't notice anybody.

[00:11:43] That makes sense.

[00:11:44] And there's also like a lot of people in this movie.

[00:11:47] There are.

[00:11:47] Yes.

[00:11:48] A lot.

[00:11:48] Uh, the movie was written by Paul Schrader, uh, and his brother Leonard Schrader and his brother's wife, Chico Schrader.

[00:11:54] Uh, and it was directed by Paul Schrader, uh, three years after his previous film, Cat People and two years before his next film, Light of Day, which is a musical drama with Michael J. Fox, Gina Rollins and Joan Jett.

[00:12:06] What the fuck?

[00:12:06] Sounds rad.

[00:12:07] Sounds pretty cool.

[00:12:08] Uh, that sounds potentially like the worst thing I've ever seen or an undiscovered masterpiece.

[00:12:13] Yes.

[00:12:15] That's sort of the line that Paul Schrader walks in.

[00:12:17] I think you're a hundred percent correct.

[00:12:18] That's kind of how it goes.

[00:12:20] Mishima, a life in four chapters was released on October 4th, 1985.

[00:12:24] Uh, did not get a very wide release.

[00:12:26] It didn't make the top 10 or anything like that.

[00:12:27] Uh, as you can imagine, this is a fairly uncommercial film.

[00:12:30] Opening at number one that weekend was Arnold Schwarzenegger in Commando.

[00:12:34] Hey, Commando.

[00:12:35] Hey.

[00:12:35] Pretty good movie.

[00:12:36] Have you played Commando?

[00:12:37] Yeah, you have.

[00:12:38] I actually tried to play Commando for Inferno of Danger.

[00:12:41] Uh, and I think I had, I couldn't do it for some reason.

[00:12:45] I'm trying to remember what I had to replace it with.

[00:12:47] But yeah, I tried to play Commando and, uh, Disney now owns it because it was a Fox movie and Disney said they didn't have it.

[00:12:54] Uh, they, they like, they wouldn't give, and they wouldn't let us play a Blu-ray or anything like that.

[00:12:58] Like they just like flat out and said they didn't have it.

[00:13:00] Uh, which was a bummer.

[00:13:01] I think I actually replaced it with, uh, The Legend of Drunken Master.

[00:13:04] That was like July of last year.

[00:13:05] Uh, which better movie anyway.

[00:13:07] So it all kind of, it all kind of worked out.

[00:13:09] Yeah.

[00:13:10] Yeah.

[00:13:10] But still, it was, it was kind of a bummer to lose Commando.

[00:13:12] Uh, opening to number two was Jagged Edge, a neo-noir with Glenn Close and Jeff Bridges.

[00:13:18] Uh, the rest of the top 10 consisted of Agnes of God, Invasion USA with Chuck Norris, potential future Inferno, Back to the Future, and it's 14th week at the box office.

[00:13:27] Pee-wee's Big Adventure, Teen Wolf, Plenty, Maxie, and Kiss of the Spider Woman.

[00:13:33] I've never heard of most of those movies, but I mean.

[00:13:36] Yeah, now we're not in the overall year top 10.

[00:13:38] It's just like the back to the old weekend stuff.

[00:13:40] And it's like, oh yeah, some of these have been lost to time.

[00:13:42] Yeah.

[00:13:43] A little bit.

[00:13:44] Uh, the IMDB plot synopsis for Mishima, A Life in Four Chapters reads,

[00:13:48] a fictionalized account in four chapters of the life of celebrated Japanese writer Yukio Mishima.

[00:13:54] Sorry, I've just discovered Paul Schrader's letterboxed account.

[00:13:58] Does he have a letterbox?

[00:13:59] I don't think I knew that.

[00:13:59] Uh, yeah, I mean, this is a review on Mishima from May 25th, 2017.

[00:14:04] It says, throwback Thursday with Aiko Ishioka on the set of Mishima,

[00:14:09] and it's a link to his Facebook account with pictures.

[00:14:12] Oh!

[00:14:13] Wild.

[00:14:14] Wild.

[00:14:14] Sorry.

[00:14:15] I missed that letterboxed review when I was going through it.

[00:14:17] Uh, yeah.

[00:14:18] I mean, there's not really a review there, but, because he, he, he reviewed,

[00:14:22] he posted a review on Light of Day, apparently on Jenna Rowland's death.

[00:14:27] Uh, when she died.

[00:14:28] Right.

[00:14:28] And this, you could imagine this movie has 4,000 logs.

[00:14:32] So this is the top review.

[00:14:34] And I was like, that's gotta be like that fake John Carpenter thing that was going around.

[00:14:37] Remember a couple of weeks ago?

[00:14:38] Right.

[00:14:39] Yeah.

[00:14:39] Um, and then I was like, let me just look and see.

[00:14:41] And no, it seems to apparently actually be his letterboxed account.

[00:14:44] Wow.

[00:14:44] Okay.

[00:14:45] I can't believe I didn't know about that.

[00:14:46] All right.

[00:14:47] That's wild.

[00:14:47] Totally derailed.

[00:14:48] Anyway, Mike D.

[00:14:50] Yes.

[00:14:50] Going into this movie, you're a big Paul Schrader guy.

[00:14:53] Uh, it's, it's one of your defining characteristics.

[00:14:55] Yeah.

[00:14:56] Well, if anybody knows one thing about me, big Paul Schrader guy.

[00:14:59] Yes.

[00:14:59] Maybe, maybe the world's biggest dog eat dog fan.

[00:15:02] Okay.

[00:15:02] That I, yes.

[00:15:03] Correct.

[00:15:04] Yes.

[00:15:04] Uh, yeah, yeah.

[00:15:05] I think you, it's a weird way.

[00:15:06] He's got a review on dog eat dog.

[00:15:10] Uh, but you're, you're, uh, you know, you're our podcast, big Paul Schrader guy.

[00:15:14] I have in general, like I like Paul Schrader movies for the most part.

[00:15:16] What are your overall thoughts on Mishima, a life in four chapters?

[00:15:20] I think Mishima, a life in four chapters is a fascinating movie.

[00:15:24] Yeah.

[00:15:24] I don't, I guess I don't remember exactly how that, like I'm the biggest Paul Schrader

[00:15:27] guy.

[00:15:28] Um, and I remember saying like, is Paul Schrader one of my favorite directors of all time?

[00:15:31] And I don't remember what movie that was after.

[00:15:33] I think, I mean, we, we had watched dog eat dog at that point.

[00:15:36] I think we had watched dying of the light and then dog eat dog in pretty quick succession

[00:15:39] because they came out pretty close to each other.

[00:15:41] Yeah.

[00:15:41] And dying of the light, we were both pretty, you know, that movie's bad.

[00:15:44] It is what it is.

[00:15:45] Yeah.

[00:15:45] It is what it is.

[00:15:46] But dog eat dog, we were both like, yeah, Hey, this is really great.

[00:15:48] And I think I told you to watch first reformed and you did and you really liked it.

[00:15:52] Yeah.

[00:15:52] Yeah.

[00:15:52] And then maybe you watched hardcore or something and you're like, that's it.

[00:15:55] I'm a Paul Schrader guy.

[00:15:56] I'm in.

[00:15:57] Um, yeah.

[00:15:58] And then every movie that I've seen since then has been like, I don't really know about

[00:16:01] that.

[00:16:02] You know?

[00:16:03] Um, and I think that's the later period, you know, the current contemporary stuff is pretty

[00:16:08] hit or miss.

[00:16:09] Um, yes.

[00:16:10] I have heard his new movie.

[00:16:11] Uh, Oh, Canada is supposed to be very good.

[00:16:13] I've heard good things.

[00:16:15] Yes.

[00:16:15] And I did not see the Joel Edgar Edgerton garden movie, uh, master gardener, which I did

[00:16:21] see.

[00:16:22] Uh, and, uh, yeah, I didn't like, didn't, it did not, uh, did not enjoy master gardener

[00:16:25] that, that movie feels like sort of an amalgamation of just like everything.

[00:16:29] Like it's all, it's all the Paul Schrader hits.

[00:16:31] It's a, it's a loner guy who has a checkered past who keeps all his thoughts in a journal.

[00:16:36] Uh, and yeah, right.

[00:16:38] Exactly.

[00:16:38] Yeah.

[00:16:38] You know, all, all that stuff.

[00:16:40] Uh, and you know, has dark secrets that get unveiled.

[00:16:42] I don't know.

[00:16:43] It just feels like this, it's not doing anything like new or interesting with any of that stuff,

[00:16:47] uh, which was a little bit of a bummer, but you know, first reformed is so good.

[00:16:51] And the card counter was also pretty solid.

[00:16:52] I'm more liking that movie too.

[00:16:53] So, so yeah, I mean, there's stuff thematically in a lot of his work that appeals to me, uh,

[00:16:58] you know, the angry young man writing in journals, talking to himself in voiceover stuff, whatever,

[00:17:04] all those things.

[00:17:05] And that for sure is here on display in Mishima.

[00:17:08] But, and, and I think, I think structurally Mishima is fascinating, like literally novelistic,

[00:17:14] like having a, like actually a table of contents showing you what the four chapters are and

[00:17:19] their titles before this movie starts and each chapter and all that stuff.

[00:17:22] So yeah, I mean, I think, I think it's fascinating.

[00:17:24] Do I really think I know or learned anything about Mishima as a person?

[00:17:29] Not really.

[00:17:30] Uh, but I, I don't know.

[00:17:31] I feel, I feel like the implied air quotes, uh, implied homosexuality is like, well, that's

[00:17:36] the answer.

[00:17:37] And you're like, well, I don't, okay, I guess it has that sort of feeling to it.

[00:17:40] So yeah, I don't know.

[00:17:42] And also I think partially like, you know, watching it, uh, after work being kind of tired, there's

[00:17:48] a lot of subtitles.

[00:17:48] The movie is very timey wimey, right?

[00:17:52] Slipping back and forth between past and present.

[00:17:53] And then also into novels and stories like fiction stories within the movie.

[00:17:58] Um, yes.

[00:17:59] Yeah.

[00:17:59] This is a structurally very strange movie.

[00:18:01] Yeah.

[00:18:01] Dramatizations of, of Mishima's writing.

[00:18:03] Uh, I think there's, is it three short stories they do or something like that?

[00:18:07] They do like three of his like novels or shorts and they kind of adapt them into, um, you

[00:18:11] know, like sort of short films in the movie.

[00:18:14] And sometimes it's, it's cutting back and forth between those and his real life and all that

[00:18:17] stuff.

[00:18:18] You're sort of, it's sort of like a, you know, a life imitates art, art imitates life,

[00:18:22] like kind of cycle that you're kind of going through throughout the whole movie.

[00:18:24] Right.

[00:18:24] Yeah.

[00:18:25] And I, and I think there is a lot of like hashtag analysis thematics stuff to dig into

[00:18:30] that.

[00:18:30] I just have not done because I watched this yesterday and that don't have a lot of time

[00:18:35] and it was tired.

[00:18:36] Uh, but so it was like, wow, what, what do I really, what am I getting?

[00:18:38] What is this, what is this movie saying?

[00:18:40] Like all the weird, every story, like every, every dramatization ending before the dramatic

[00:18:45] burst of violence until we get to the dramatic burst of violence and Mishima's life.

[00:18:49] And then we see all of them in a row at once.

[00:18:51] You're like, right.

[00:18:52] Hashtag deep.

[00:18:52] I don't know.

[00:18:53] So I think, I think that, I think visually a movie looks great.

[00:18:56] I think it is very well directed and it's interestingly structured and all that stuff.

[00:19:00] But ultimately I was kind of just like, all right, we got to go.

[00:19:04] I'm clocking out.

[00:19:05] You know, I was checked out.

[00:19:06] I was starting to check out after a while.

[00:19:07] Um, you did, you did the true double feature of Mishima and Hubie Halloween, right?

[00:19:12] I had to follow.

[00:19:13] I also had to watch Hubie Halloween and I knew that was on there that that time was

[00:19:17] ticking.

[00:19:18] You know, I was like, Oh man, I'm ready for Hubie, the lighthearted, wonderful rump.

[00:19:23] Um, check out that episode for my actual thoughts on the movie.

[00:19:27] But yeah, so, I mean, it's definitely also a situation of me bringing the wrong attitude

[00:19:32] necessarily to this movie and like running out of patience with it.

[00:19:36] I think if I watch this again in a, in a better situation, you know, I might enjoy it or get

[00:19:40] a lot more out of it or be more drawn in.

[00:19:43] But, um, at a certain point I was like, well, all right, I'm ready.

[00:19:46] I'm ready for the movie to be over.

[00:19:47] Um, kind of thing.

[00:19:48] Yeah.

[00:19:49] And, and, and the, the structure stuff and the, the dramatization of the stories are very

[00:19:54] like expressionistic and weird.

[00:19:56] Like you can see the three walls of the set in a lot of them.

[00:19:58] Uh, and, and they're all set in this kind of, they're like a stage place kind of stuff.

[00:20:03] Uh, like a filmed stage play situation in a lot of them.

[00:20:06] Um, yes.

[00:20:07] Uh, whenever it is like the, uh, the dramatization of a, a novel, uh, it does have a more artificial

[00:20:13] quality to it.

[00:20:13] Yeah.

[00:20:14] I think artificial quality is a perfect way to put that.

[00:20:16] Yeah.

[00:20:16] The lighting is all different and weird and stuff like that.

[00:20:19] So it's cool.

[00:20:20] It's good.

[00:20:20] It's got a lot of stuff going on, but I think I just didn't meet it on its own terms.

[00:20:23] And so I was kind of bored is my reaction, I guess, because that's the long winded way

[00:20:27] to say I was kind of bored by this movie.

[00:20:29] Okay.

[00:20:30] Fair enough.

[00:20:30] I, I did not watch it in the same way that you did.

[00:20:33] I watched it.

[00:20:34] Like I, it was on like a Saturday afternoon.

[00:20:35] I had just woken up and I was like, all right, it's Mishima time.

[00:20:38] Um, but, uh, what a way to start your day.

[00:20:40] Yeah, exactly.

[00:20:41] Uh, yeah, no, I, I think this movie is really terrific.

[00:20:44] Uh, I, I liked it quite a bit.

[00:20:45] Uh, I think it is visually pretty astonishing and especially with all the, uh, like with the

[00:20:50] novelizations and all like the reenactments of the, uh, the art.

[00:20:53] Each one kind of creates its own very distinct look.

[00:20:56] Uh, and it like really feels like, like it is messing around with a lot of things structurally

[00:21:01] in terms of like showing you Mishima's actual life and then showing you the novelizations

[00:21:04] or the adaptations.

[00:21:05] But I think in pure visual style, I was able to kind of pretty easily parse like what was

[00:21:11] what, you know, I think that once I figured out that's what the movie was doing, uh, I

[00:21:15] was able to kind of easily kind of like, you know, and that's, it's hard to differentiate

[00:21:18] between that kind of stuff sometimes.

[00:21:19] And so, uh, like the real life Mishima stuff is in black and white for a large portion

[00:21:24] of the movie.

[00:21:24] Uh, and then when you get into the novelizations, those are in full color.

[00:21:28] They're often like really beautiful, like wild colors that are happening here.

[00:21:31] Uh, Paul Schrader does consider this the best movie that he's ever directed.

[00:21:34] Um, really?

[00:21:35] Yes.

[00:21:35] Or at least his best as a director.

[00:21:37] He, he makes the distinction that taxi driver is the best script he ever wrote.

[00:21:40] Like as a writer, that's his best film.

[00:21:49] How did this even come to be?

[00:21:51] Yeah.

[00:21:51] Like at this point, Paul Schrader's directed a few movies.

[00:21:54] Uh, they are mostly like pretty like sleazy kind of movies.

[00:21:59] Yeah.

[00:21:59] Yeah.

[00:22:00] Come on.

[00:22:01] Yeah.

[00:22:01] Cat people was his previous movie, you know, and hardcore was one of them American gigolo,

[00:22:05] all that kind of stuff.

[00:22:06] So I was like, how did he go from like those movies to making this like, you know, very

[00:22:11] like handsomely produced epic about a real life historical figure able to be able to do

[00:22:15] it like all in Japanese.

[00:22:16] Like how did he get so rooted in this story?

[00:22:19] Uh, and so I found out about it.

[00:22:21] Uh, I, I'm going to read you from Paul Schrader's own words.

[00:22:24] This was from January, 2020.

[00:22:26] Uh, he introduced the screening of Mishima at the Metrograph and, uh, this, so yeah, right,

[00:22:31] right before everything shut down from COVID, a lot of people went to go see Mishima and,

[00:22:35] uh, he talked about it and said that, uh, I had written taxi driver, which was a film

[00:22:39] about the pathology of suicidal glory.

[00:22:41] And I liked this theme.

[00:22:42] I thought I'd write about it again.

[00:22:43] I wrote a script about Hank Williams, uh, which did not get made because of a right

[00:22:47] situation.

[00:22:48] Uh, and then my brother who was teaching in Japan, uh, he had been telling me about Mishima

[00:22:53] and I said, you know, that's it.

[00:22:55] If you want to make another film about the mythology of suicidal glory, this idea that

[00:22:58] we can merit our own transcendence by our own suffering, uh, that we can become characters

[00:23:02] in our own Uber fiction, go to the other side of the world, go to Japan, the other side

[00:23:06] of the bookcase, a successful man, a literary man, an educated man, a family man, a homosexual

[00:23:11] man, a wealthy man, a rewarded man caught in the grips of the same pathology as Travis Bickle,

[00:23:16] but in an entirely different context because the pathology is universal.

[00:23:20] The idea that we can through our own suffering merit our transcendence.

[00:23:24] Uh, and he talks about it as if, you know, obviously there's a lot of Christianity in

[00:23:27] that a lot of like religious aspects that kind of come in there too.

[00:23:30] And it's sort of like him kind of going, working through a lot of that stuff, but working through

[00:23:34] Mishima as kind of part of it.

[00:23:36] Uh, and then he said, once I got involved in all the research, he realized that he had to

[00:23:39] excerpt the novels in the screenplay because a writer's life really exists inside his own

[00:23:43] imagination.

[00:23:44] And how can you tell a writer's life without telling his stories?

[00:23:47] And so, yeah, I thought that was pretty fantastic.

[00:23:48] I think that's like a really interesting kind of look into like, how did this even come

[00:23:52] to be?

[00:23:52] You kind of look at Paul Schrader's career and this feels like a weird outlier.

[00:23:56] Um, but thematically it does like kind of line up with some of his protagonists, right?

[00:24:00] Like, like a Travis Bickle or Ethan Hawken, first reformed or the master gardener, uh, or all

[00:24:05] of the classic characters, you know?

[00:24:07] Yeah.

[00:24:08] Yeah.

[00:24:09] I know.

[00:24:10] It definitely makes sense.

[00:24:11] This, this weird, disaffected, unmoored, you know, man who feels that he's been slighted

[00:24:17] by society and then must rise up against it or whatever kind of thing.

[00:24:20] But I think Mishima within the movie, like the person, the man, it's all his own fault.

[00:24:25] Like, I don't know.

[00:24:26] Like he gets, he, uh, talks about not, there's the one scene in particular where he goes to

[00:24:31] the like a conscription office or whatever during world war II to sign up to volunteer or whatever

[00:24:36] redrafted by the army.

[00:24:37] The doctor tells him to cough while he's listening to his chest and it like triggers this like

[00:24:41] uncontrollable coughing fit and all this stuff and asks, so the doctor is like, well, how

[00:24:45] long have you had a fever?

[00:24:46] And he says six months and the doctor is like, tuberculosis, you're unfit.

[00:24:49] Get out of here.

[00:24:50] Right.

[00:24:51] And he sends him out.

[00:24:51] And then the voiceover tells us, I was never sure why I lied about my illness.

[00:24:55] How long that fever had lasted?

[00:24:57] Like, was I actually afraid to serve or did I never want to do it in the first place and

[00:25:01] all this stuff?

[00:25:02] And then as an adult, he feels mad that he like robbed of his chance to have the military

[00:25:07] death that he always wanted or it's like, well, you did it yourself.

[00:25:11] You know?

[00:25:11] And I guess that's the whole point of these kinds of characters and stuff, particularly in Schrader's

[00:25:15] movies where they have this imagined grievance, this imagined grandeur stuff, uh, that they're

[00:25:21] imposing on themselves.

[00:25:22] Really?

[00:25:23] Society hasn't left you.

[00:25:24] You've left society.

[00:25:25] Um, you know, and Travis Pickle's sentence and stuff like that.

[00:25:28] So yeah, it is interesting to point that out that, uh, that yeah, at first glance, this

[00:25:33] movie feels like completely out of left field for Schrader's oeuvre, but actually it's pretty

[00:25:38] thematically fits right in.

[00:25:39] Right.

[00:25:40] Uh, and it is like kind of remarkable that this exists on the scale that it does.

[00:25:45] Um, just being like produced in America, like especially in the mid eighties, just like

[00:25:48] kind of creating, like, I'm going to make a movie that's entirely in Japanese.

[00:25:52] Right.

[00:25:52] Uh, lucky that he was friends with Francis Ford Coppola and George Lucas, I guess, who

[00:25:55] were able to kind of produce that and get it out into the world, which is

[00:25:58] nice.

[00:25:58] Yeah.

[00:25:59] It does feel like, so Roy Scheider is in this movie, uh, doing, uh, doing the narration

[00:26:03] that sort of feels like a concession to a studio where it's like, okay, even though the entire

[00:26:07] movie will be in Japanese, we will have an English language voiceover for American audiences

[00:26:12] essentially.

[00:26:12] Right.

[00:26:12] A star will do the voiceover so that there's a reason for Americans to go see it or whatever.

[00:26:18] But that being said, what did you think of Roy Scheider in Mishima, a life in four

[00:26:21] chapters?

[00:26:23] I think it is both really weird and out of place because the movie isn't Japanese, obviously.

[00:26:29] Right.

[00:26:30] And it is supposed to be like Mishima's inner thoughts.

[00:26:32] It's his inner monologue.

[00:26:33] Reflecting back in his own life.

[00:26:35] And every time it like, you know, it's, it's voiceover.

[00:26:38] It's not his voice.

[00:26:39] It's Roy Scheider.

[00:26:39] It's Roy Scheider.

[00:26:40] But that said, I think if it's going to be in English, Roy Scheider does a really good

[00:26:45] job, you know?

[00:26:47] In particular, like at the beginning, I was like, this is kind of weird.

[00:26:50] Like when it's just about his life and like being his grandmother, taking him away from

[00:26:54] his mother and as a kid and all this stuff.

[00:26:56] But once it starts getting into the like adult philosophical, like amusings of Mishima

[00:27:01] writing in his journal, like Travis Pickle, Scheider does a really great job and lends a really

[00:27:06] powerful like gravitas to these kind of deep, profound things that he's ruminating on.

[00:27:11] And it, that it's, it's Scheider reciting, I assume passages of Mishima's writings and

[00:27:17] stuff.

[00:27:17] So it's really like a literary and, and deep and interesting.

[00:27:20] And it sounds cool as hell.

[00:27:22] And Scheider sells it really well.

[00:27:23] So like, you know, thinking about his military, the being robbed of the glorious death and

[00:27:27] all that stuff.

[00:27:28] Like it's, it's just intense to hear Roy Scheider talk, like talk about those things.

[00:27:31] But also it is weird that it is an American guy.

[00:27:36] I think the narration is as good as it could possibly be for being in English, essentially.

[00:27:41] That said, I mean, like I said, the, the default version of Mishima now, like if you, if you

[00:27:44] go to the Criterion channel and you search Mishima, the version that will come up is the

[00:27:49] one with Japanese narration, which Ken Ogata, who plays Yuki Mishima actually does the narration

[00:27:54] for.

[00:27:55] Who has a great voice.

[00:27:56] Yes, absolutely.

[00:27:57] And he's amazing in this movie.

[00:27:59] I mean, he's fantastic.

[00:28:00] Holy shit.

[00:28:00] So if you want to watch the Roy Scheider version, you have to actually look up Mishima Roy Scheider.

[00:28:05] And it's like a separate entry that says Mishima with Roy Scheider narration.

[00:28:09] And then there's the other one with like the other English language narration.

[00:28:12] And so they're kind of seen as like special features now.

[00:28:15] Like even though this is the original theatrical version of the movie, the one with Roy Scheider's

[00:28:19] narration, it is now like a special feature to what is now the default version with the,

[00:28:24] with the Japanese narration, which makes sense.

[00:28:27] It's like, it's one of those things like as soon as you're like, oh yeah, once we put

[00:28:30] Japanese voiceover in there, this became like a full fledged masterpiece.

[00:28:34] Like more people like, we're like, oh yeah, no, this is great.

[00:28:36] This is great.

[00:28:36] Yes.

[00:28:37] Yeah.

[00:28:38] It's so interesting.

[00:28:39] I mean, like just historically the way voiceover or narration or something can like ruin

[00:28:45] not that Roy Scheider ruins this movie, but I'm thinking of like Blade Runner in particular.

[00:28:49] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:50] Historic, like, you know, famously.

[00:28:52] Yeah.

[00:28:52] The original theatrical cut of Blade Runner has Harrison Ford doing voiceover, which

[00:28:56] is also Harrison Ford doing voiceover in like the most bored possible way.

[00:28:59] Trying to tank it on purpose.

[00:29:00] Yeah.

[00:29:01] Yeah.

[00:29:02] Allegedly or whatever the story, apocryphally.

[00:29:04] Yeah.

[00:29:05] Yeah.

[00:29:05] Swap him out, swap out Roy Scheider for the, the original Japanese actor.

[00:29:09] And you're like, whoa, holy shit.

[00:29:10] It all, it all comes together.

[00:29:12] It all sings out.

[00:29:12] It all fits.

[00:29:13] Yeah.

[00:29:13] Do you think you would have a stronger reaction to the movie if you had watched the

[00:29:16] Japanese version, Mike?

[00:29:17] Like the one with the Japanese voiceover?

[00:29:18] Maybe.

[00:29:19] Yeah.

[00:29:19] I don't know.

[00:29:19] I don't know if that would have like keyed me in a little bit more because there, it is

[00:29:23] like a little bit of like the, just like the mind trick of like, I'm, I'm locked in reading

[00:29:28] subtitles.

[00:29:29] Now I'm listening to Roy Scheider and now I'm locked in reading subtitles.

[00:29:32] Like you're kind of going, engaging and disengaging different parts of your brain or whatever.

[00:29:36] And when you're kind of sleepy after work, you're like, oh man, more subtitles.

[00:29:41] Like, oh boy.

[00:29:43] Yeah.

[00:29:43] Potentially if I was just locked in all the way through subtitles, I would have maybe focused

[00:29:47] more.

[00:29:47] I don't know.

[00:29:49] Other than maybe I just needed a cup of coffee and I would have like, oh my God, this is the

[00:29:52] best movie of all time.

[00:29:55] Fair enough.

[00:29:55] How do you think this fits into the Roy Scheider roles that we've seen so far, Mike?

[00:29:59] Well, it's the first time he's played a Japanese man.

[00:30:01] So.

[00:30:04] That's true.

[00:30:05] That is very true.

[00:30:07] I'm not sure if there is an answer to this question.

[00:30:09] Well, I don't really think so either.

[00:30:11] Other than I was going to say, ironically, Curse of the Living Corpse really stood out to me

[00:30:18] in the theatricality of the within Mishima, not necessarily Scheider's performance.

[00:30:24] Okay.

[00:30:24] But like when you do have those reenactments of Mishima stories.

[00:30:29] Yeah.

[00:30:29] Yeah.

[00:30:30] And there's a couple of moments where like Mishima, the man was also a screenwriter and

[00:30:35] playwright and all this stuff.

[00:30:36] And there's a couple of like behind, you know, at a play, uh, like, you know, at a stage

[00:30:40] production in the present day stuff that's going on, or I guess it's a flashbacks cause

[00:30:45] some black and white in Mishima's adult life, I'll say.

[00:30:47] Um, so there's stuff like that.

[00:30:48] And just broadly theatricality and stuff plays into this movie.

[00:30:53] Uh, there's scenes where Mishima, we're watching Mishima make a movie, right?

[00:30:58] He's starring in a short film or something like that.

[00:31:00] So I don't know.

[00:31:01] I just was like, huh, maybe think about that.

[00:31:02] And that, that early era of, of Scheider sort of pre-film where we know he was doing a

[00:31:07] lot of regional acting and on, on stage and all that stuff.

[00:31:10] Uh, right.

[00:31:11] And in Curse the Living Corpse, he's giving a much more theatrical performance than, uh,

[00:31:14] than he would kind of tend to be known for later on.

[00:31:16] Uh, I guess to that end, I would actually also bring up all that jazz, um, which, you

[00:31:20] know, obviously has that theatrical element to it.

[00:31:23] There's a, it's, you know, them building a stage production together, but that movie is

[00:31:26] also about like the totality of one person's life.

[00:31:29] Um, you know, in all that jazz, it is a fictional person, uh, fictional in like air quotes, um,

[00:31:35] you know, a self-reflection.

[00:31:37] Yes.

[00:31:38] A self-reflection.

[00:31:39] Um, but that is very much about like kind of, you know, this, this one person and like

[00:31:43] their, their entire life and how they came to be the way, the way that they are and them

[00:31:48] kind of putting themselves all into their arts, uh, and you know, uh, about their relationships,

[00:31:52] uh, and ultimately leading up to their death.

[00:31:54] Uh, and so yeah, all that, all that jazz and Mishima are actually like, when I look at it

[00:31:59] that way, somewhat similar movie.

[00:32:01] Yes.

[00:32:01] Yeah.

[00:32:02] There's, there's also, you know, multiple layers, like performance within the movie within the

[00:32:08] near death dream state or whatever the fuck is going on at the end of all that jazz.

[00:32:12] Right.

[00:32:12] So there's, there's, yeah, I think structurally a little bit and also thematically pretty

[00:32:16] close.

[00:32:16] Absolutely.

[00:32:17] Um, blue thunder.

[00:32:18] Cause he's, there's a military aspect.

[00:32:23] It might be reaching that, that point.

[00:32:24] It might be a stretch.

[00:32:25] Yeah.

[00:32:25] I don't know.

[00:32:27] Uh, which, uh, yeah.

[00:32:29] Any other scenes or moments in Mishima that's in that to you, Mike?

[00:32:31] I do want to give a shout out to the score, uh, which, uh, this is maybe like one of the

[00:32:35] best film scores I've ever heard.

[00:32:37] It's, uh, it's really unbelievable.

[00:32:39] Uh, fellow class, uh, did the score for this movie.

[00:32:42] Who did the gong in class.

[00:32:43] Uh, that's true.

[00:32:44] That's the best joke.

[00:32:48] That is very true.

[00:32:49] Um, yeah.

[00:32:50] And, uh, yeah, I think the score, I mean, as soon as the movie starts and you kind of

[00:32:53] have this sort of, a sort of overture thing as you're watching the credits, um, and you're

[00:32:57] hearing the score kind of play alongside it.

[00:32:58] It's, it's really amazing.

[00:33:00] Um, it just, it's, it's such a beautiful score.

[00:33:02] Paul Schrader actually talked about that in his metrograph intro as well.

[00:33:05] Uh, and he said, one of the reasons this movie works at all is because of Philip Glass.

[00:33:09] He said, I said to Phil, look, I'm making a lot of little boats and a lot of these

[00:33:13] boats don't even look like each other.

[00:33:15] What I need from you is a river that they can all float in.

[00:33:18] And that was the score for the movie.

[00:33:20] He created the river and I created the boats.

[00:33:22] Whoa.

[00:33:23] That's a pretty beautiful metaphor.

[00:33:25] Honestly, it's really well done.

[00:33:27] Wow.

[00:33:27] Yeah.

[00:33:27] And it's a good way to kind of put it because there's so many disparate, disparate parts

[00:33:31] of this movie.

[00:33:31] Yeah.

[00:33:32] Um, you know, so many different, I mean, there's, you know, three different stories you're

[00:33:35] adapting.

[00:33:35] You're doing, uh, the entire past of Mishima's life.

[00:33:38] You're doing the last day of his life and you're kind of piecing all these things together.

[00:33:41] Uh, and the score really like unifies all of that and kind of makes you, takes you along

[00:33:46] for the ride.

[00:33:46] Yeah, no, I think it's, it's pretty powerful.

[00:33:48] I was also really impressed with the way, like the time compression thing going on between

[00:33:53] all of the different, the present day being the day of the coup attempts, like this, the,

[00:33:56] the actual date.

[00:33:57] Right.

[00:33:57] Uh, as well as all the flashbacks and stuff.

[00:33:59] And yeah, that all, as much as I was not really confused, but wasn't like pulled along by that.

[00:34:06] I don't really know, uh, structurally how to phrase that.

[00:34:08] Um, but yeah, I agree.

[00:34:09] I think that that the score absolutely is you're able to be pulled along through all, all the

[00:34:14] different timelines and realities and dramatizations and all that stuff.

[00:34:19] Uh, movie movies, baby.

[00:34:21] Yes, absolutely.

[00:34:22] Now more than ever.

[00:34:24] Yes.

[00:34:24] Uh, any other, uh, scenes that you want to give a shout out to Mike, anything else in Mishima

[00:34:27] that, uh, stands out to you?

[00:34:28] I thought the, in particular of the dramatizations of the, of the works of Mishima, the, the second

[00:34:34] one, the one with the older woman and the, and the.

[00:34:38] Like submissive guy.

[00:34:39] Yeah.

[00:34:39] Yes.

[00:34:39] Yeah.

[00:34:40] That one.

[00:34:40] Uh, is that art?

[00:34:41] I don't remember the, the, or beauty.

[00:34:43] I forget what the titles of the, the chapters of the, the titular four chapters are.

[00:34:47] Right.

[00:34:48] Yeah.

[00:34:48] Yeah.

[00:34:48] I don't know.

[00:34:49] I thought that, that whole house is the name of the, is the name of the second segment,

[00:34:52] that whole dramatization, that whole like short story or short film or whatever.

[00:34:56] I don't really even know how to describe it within the movie.

[00:34:58] Right.

[00:34:59] Um, yeah.

[00:35:00] It was fascinating.

[00:35:01] It's all is like, I don't know.

[00:35:02] It's just, it was so, uh, you know, visceral and real.

[00:35:05] Like, cause the first one, the golden temple one is like very, I mean, they're all expressionistic,

[00:35:10] but that one in particular is very express.

[00:35:12] Like they're in just a large room with a very obvious fake golden temple.

[00:35:16] Right.

[00:35:17] And yeah.

[00:35:17] Just surrounded by like matte paintings and right.

[00:35:19] Yeah.

[00:35:20] And this one has like sets in, within the dramatization or in that like diner and they're

[00:35:25] at the apartment or whatever.

[00:35:27] And yeah, I don't know.

[00:35:27] It just was, it's all very striking visually.

[00:35:29] And like the, the, the colors are these weird pastels.

[00:35:32] And you could, like I said, there's a couple of shots that are like, like three quarter

[00:35:36] bird's eye.

[00:35:36] So like you can see the three walls of the set that we're sitting in and the diner and

[00:35:40] stuff like that.

[00:35:41] Uh, so I don't know that story in particular stood out because that's another one that,

[00:35:43] and like I mentioned before that all three dramatizations and before the actual end,

[00:35:49] like you see someone draw a knife, you see someone, uh, be ready to commit seppuku.

[00:35:54] Right.

[00:35:54] Uh, right.

[00:35:55] And they all cut off to cut back to Mishima's final day and withhold that from us, uh, as,

[00:36:00] as a way of not showing Mishima, like the real life act of violence that happened.

[00:36:06] We see the act of violences that he wrote about instead.

[00:36:09] Um, yeah, that's true.

[00:36:10] I mean, you kind of, you see him scream, um, but you don't actually see him, uh,

[00:36:13] plunges the sword into, into his stomach or anything like that.

[00:36:16] Um, and the, and then the movie ends.

[00:36:18] I mean, that's, that's the last, I think the last thing you see is like a sunset or

[00:36:20] somebody watching the sunset as they commit seppuku, right?

[00:36:23] Yeah.

[00:36:23] It's the, it's the, the third, the end of the third dramatization, which we haven't

[00:36:28] seen yet.

[00:36:28] Right.

[00:36:28] Cause the story ends right before and shows us the coup attempt.

[00:36:32] Yes.

[00:36:32] But uses that character's death instead of showing us Mishima's death, uh, which I

[00:36:37] think is interesting.

[00:36:43] Most, I liked that one a bit.

[00:36:45] Uh, just visually it's very striking.

[00:36:46] And also it's like, I don't know, it's the only, it's one of the only times when like,

[00:36:49] Oh, some humor is in this movie.

[00:36:51] Like it's kind of, it's a little bit lighter than the rest of the movie.

[00:36:55] Uh, cause that's just about these like two guys, one of which has a stutter and the other

[00:36:58] guy is like trying to help him like pick up, pick up girls.

[00:37:01] And it's like, Oh, well you gotta like make your disability work for you.

[00:37:04] And he like kind of pretends to have a limp and knocks into one of the girls and it's

[00:37:07] like, Hey baby, I just like, what are you doing?

[00:37:09] Yeah.

[00:37:10] Why don't we go for a walk?

[00:37:11] And he just like takes her.

[00:37:12] Yeah.

[00:37:14] Pretty funny.

[00:37:14] And so all of that is, is pretty funny.

[00:37:16] And the way that segment ends where he's trying to have sex with the girl and like doesn't

[00:37:20] really know what to do.

[00:37:21] Uh, and she gets frustrated and leaves.

[00:37:23] Uh, and that like sexual frustration is like reflected in the life of Yuki Mishima as well

[00:37:27] in this movie.

[00:37:28] Uh, and so, I mean, that's kind of what I like about like these three, uh, stories that it's

[00:37:32] adapting is like, these are all stories that like it's using to kind of prop up like

[00:37:37] the, what was going on in the author's life while he was writing these stories and like

[00:37:40] the kind of like things that were going through his mind.

[00:37:42] Yeah.

[00:37:42] Cause right.

[00:37:43] I think it implies that Mishima couldn't speak or had a stutter as a child, right?

[00:37:47] Or something like that.

[00:37:48] And then we see the story of golden temple or whatever it was called.

[00:37:51] The, uh, the golden pavilion, golden pavilion.

[00:37:54] Right.

[00:37:54] Uh, about this guy, the characters who can't, who has a stutter and all this stuff.

[00:37:58] And he ties into his sexual impotency, which is actually because Mishima was gay or

[00:38:03] whatever.

[00:38:03] Um, you know, uh, and then also about his like physical obsession, uh, is the second

[00:38:08] one, right?

[00:38:09] Like, uh, like about his physique and working out and all this stuff.

[00:38:12] And that the main characters in that story is obsessed with how, like, you know, how big

[00:38:16] his pecs are or whatever.

[00:38:17] Right.

[00:38:17] Right.

[00:38:17] Kind of thing.

[00:38:18] He keeps talking about that with the women and, and they're, the ultimate submission is

[00:38:21] to give his body to her and all.

[00:38:23] And so she kills him.

[00:38:24] Right.

[00:38:26] Uh, and all that stuff.

[00:38:27] And yeah.

[00:38:28] So, I mean, yeah, it's definitely, like I said before, a lot of hashtag analysis, hashtag themes,

[00:38:33] uh, going on.

[00:38:34] Yeah.

[00:38:34] And then the third one is about, you know, uh, a general and his, like his, a group,

[00:38:38] like kind of trying to stage a coup, like trying to do, like doing the thing that he actually

[00:38:42] does later in life.

[00:38:43] Uh, and so you're watching that segment and then you're watching immediately right after

[00:38:47] that, uh, him and his buddies doing his thing.

[00:38:49] Yeah.

[00:38:49] And I kind of wish maybe the movie, I wish I had learned a little bit more about how,

[00:38:53] how he gets to that point.

[00:38:56] Right.

[00:38:56] It's sort of like, he goes to confront the left wing student.

[00:38:59] Well, I don't even remember.

[00:39:00] I mean, he does go to confront these like left wing student protests and go to speak

[00:39:03] at them, right?

[00:39:04] These rallies or whatever that's going on.

[00:39:06] Right.

[00:39:07] Uh, where he talks about what we really need to be doing is restoring the emperor to his

[00:39:11] rightful place.

[00:39:12] Uh, yeah.

[00:39:13] It's a, it's a real make Japan great again, uh, sort of situation, right?

[00:39:16] I mean, yeah, it's a hundred percent, um, weird, weirdly relevant for, for this many years

[00:39:21] later, you know?

[00:39:22] Right.

[00:39:22] But then all of a sudden he's got this militia and they let them train with the army or whatever.

[00:39:27] Uh, and so he stages this coup attempt, uh, on the general.

[00:39:31] Yeah.

[00:39:32] I mean, well, he's like, he's like a sort of a major celebrity, you know?

[00:39:34] He's, uh, like, I mean, that's, what's so crazy about this whole story.

[00:39:38] Yeah.

[00:39:38] Like Yukio Mishima is like, it was a, as a very well-known renowned novelist.

[00:39:42] He was a screenwriter, a playwright, like a huge name in the arts in Japan, and then ended

[00:39:48] up trying to stage a coup, uh, and killing himself like, like there.

[00:39:52] Right.

[00:39:53] And, uh, it would be like if in America, like at this time, John Wayne just like, yeah,

[00:40:00] just was like, all right, I'm going to overthrow the government or whatever.

[00:40:03] And that's, you know, it, that would be like sort of the equivalent of it.

[00:40:06] Right.

[00:40:06] If there's anybody that, that would have staged a right wing coup, it's absolutely.

[00:40:10] It would have been John Wayne.

[00:40:11] Yeah.

[00:40:12] Great pull.

[00:40:13] Yeah.

[00:40:13] He probably could have, I think he could have successfully done it.

[00:40:17] Yeah.

[00:40:17] I mean, that's how they get through, at least as depicted in the film, through the security

[00:40:20] checkpoint at the military base is they, he rolls the window down and the guy's like,

[00:40:23] Mishima son.

[00:40:24] Like he's all excited that it's Mishima.

[00:40:26] Uh, yeah.

[00:40:26] And so they let him in cause like, it's Mishima.

[00:40:29] Like, of course, like what's he going to do?

[00:40:31] Um, it's like a, it's like a military base or like an armory or something.

[00:40:35] Yeah.

[00:40:35] Something like that.

[00:40:36] That they, they, they tie up the general that's in charge of the military, of the base.

[00:40:39] He assembles the garrison to give a speech on the balcony and nobody can hear him cause

[00:40:43] he's too far away.

[00:40:44] And the helicopter starts hovering and nobody could hear.

[00:40:46] And they all start throwing shit and jeering him.

[00:40:48] Uh, and he realizes that he's not going to be able to inspire these, the men to, to take

[00:40:54] up arms and overthrow the democratic, the, the like neutered democratic government post-war

[00:40:59] Japan thing.

[00:41:00] Right.

[00:41:01] Uh, and reinstate the glory of the, of the emperor and one of his followers, I think in

[00:41:05] real life, him and one of his followers commit sepukyu.

[00:41:07] But in the movie, they only depict one.

[00:41:09] Yes.

[00:41:10] Mishima himself.

[00:41:10] Yeah.

[00:41:11] Yeah.

[00:41:11] Mishima himself commits sepukyu.

[00:41:12] And yeah, at least one of his followers does as well.

[00:41:14] Um, and you have the guy like holding the sword over his head as well, just in case like the

[00:41:17] sepukyu doesn't take right.

[00:41:18] That's like the, that's what it is.

[00:41:21] You usually, I guess that's true.

[00:41:22] Cut your stomach open and then somebody beheads you.

[00:41:25] Um, yes.

[00:41:25] So you, so you're not just bleeding out there for a while.

[00:41:28] Exactly.

[00:41:29] Yeah.

[00:41:29] No, it's, it's a, an absolutely insane real story that, that happened.

[00:41:34] Uh, but I, I, I like the way the movie depicts it where it just sort of seems like it's

[00:41:37] not this grand thing, this like kind of coup that he's doing.

[00:41:40] It's a very like ultimately like very feeble attempt at it.

[00:41:43] Like it's, it's, you know, it ultimately is like, why are you doing this?

[00:41:46] This is meaning like, yeah.

[00:41:47] Like you said, people can't hear him over the war of the helicopter.

[00:41:50] People can't like understand what he's saying.

[00:41:52] So that doesn't mean anything.

[00:41:54] Why are you doing this?

[00:41:55] Yeah.

[00:41:55] It's like him in four guys, right?

[00:41:57] It's not like he, I mean the, the like militia or whatever that the, the shield society or

[00:42:01] whatever I think they're called.

[00:42:02] Um, they, there's more of them in the group, but like the true believers or whatever, it's

[00:42:07] these, him and these four guys are the ones that take over this base or this armory

[00:42:11] or whatever the general that they have tied up is like, Oh, come on.

[00:42:14] All right.

[00:42:15] All right.

[00:42:15] You could like stop as, as he realizes that what Mishima is like preparing to do, he's

[00:42:20] like trying to talk him out of it.

[00:42:21] He's like, you don't like, it didn't, nothing really happened.

[00:42:23] Like, don't worry about it.

[00:42:24] He's kind of what he's saying.

[00:42:25] And he's like sort of pleading with him.

[00:42:26] Like you don't, this isn't worth it.

[00:42:28] You know, what are you doing?

[00:42:29] But this whole Travis pickle delusion kind of thing, like I must suffer.

[00:42:33] I must be to prove my point kind of thing.

[00:42:36] Um, yeah, it's a real Joker for I do kind of mindset.

[00:42:39] Exactly.

[00:42:40] Exactly.

[00:42:41] You get what you fucking deserve or whatever.

[00:42:43] It's wild.

[00:42:44] It's a wild that this is a real thing that happened.

[00:42:46] Yes.

[00:42:46] And while that, uh, there was a movie made about it, uh, and that it is like this really

[00:42:51] interesting abstract work from an American filmmaker, not even a Japanese filmmaker from

[00:42:55] Paul Schrader.

[00:42:55] From Paul Schrader, I think abstract is like the perfect way to describe this movie.

[00:42:59] I think you're, I think you're onto something there.

[00:43:01] Uh, yeah.

[00:43:04] I mean, it is not like a traditional biopic by any means.

[00:43:07] There are so many different like weird turns it takes, uh, and so many like fictionalized

[00:43:10] versions of things that happen here.

[00:43:12] Yeah, no, it's, it's a really, really fascinating movie.

[00:43:15] I think it's one that like, if I were to see it again a couple of years from now, maybe

[00:43:18] in a theater, I would like fall in love with, I think I would really, really love this

[00:43:22] movie as it is.

[00:43:23] I think it's great.

[00:43:24] I really dug it.

[00:43:24] And I think when I watched it again, alas, it will be without Roy Scheider's narration.

[00:43:29] Right.

[00:43:29] Yeah.

[00:43:30] And I wonder, I wonder how Scheider got involved in it.

[00:43:33] Like, you know, like it's such a weird, but he's, he's also, he's one of those guys.

[00:43:37] He's a little, I was a little more directly involved in the new Hollywood stuff than Schrader

[00:43:40] was like a, to the, to the popular consciousness and stuff.

[00:43:43] But I was going to say, I mean, he's an actor, so public facing kind of person.

[00:43:46] And then it was in Jaws, you know?

[00:43:48] He's in, right.

[00:43:48] He's in Jaws, but yeah, he's the supporting guy in, in the French connection and everything.

[00:43:53] So yeah, just also in the, I was going to say in the periphery, but he's much more directly.

[00:43:57] Yeah.

[00:43:58] I wouldn't be surprised if like, because, you know, George Lucas was producing it or whatever.

[00:44:02] George Lucas is friends with Steven Spielberg.

[00:44:04] Steven Spielberg knows Roy Scheider.

[00:44:05] Roy Scheider jumps on as the narrator for Mishima or something along those lines.

[00:44:10] I couldn't really find out how Roy Scheider became the narrator.

[00:44:12] And the fact that like he was the original narrator has almost been like scrubbed away

[00:44:16] entirely from the internet.

[00:44:18] Like it's, it's like a footnote on the Mishima Wikipedia page.

[00:44:21] Well, it's fascinating.

[00:44:22] Yeah.

[00:44:22] It makes sense to replace the American actor with the, also the original Japanese actor

[00:44:26] to come back and do the voiceover and stuff.

[00:44:29] But for him to, for Scheider to be replaced for an uncredited guy, like just some other dude,

[00:44:34] That is weird.

[00:44:36] Yeah.

[00:44:36] In one of the phases is fascinating.

[00:44:38] And I think even.

[00:44:39] That must've been like a weird rights thing or something.

[00:44:41] Must've been.

[00:44:41] Yeah.

[00:44:42] And I think even like on Criterion Channel, I think it's just like, when you, like we

[00:44:45] said before, if you just like search Mishima, it's the default one is the Japanese narration.

[00:44:50] And then it has English narration and it's the other guy.

[00:44:53] Yes.

[00:44:54] Then it's alternate English narration and it's Roy Scheider.

[00:44:57] And you're like, wait, how do we get three levels?

[00:44:59] We need to go three levels before we get to Roy Scheider?

[00:45:01] Yes.

[00:45:02] I mean, at least with that one, it says with Roy Scheider in it.

[00:45:04] Right.

[00:45:04] I don't know which one it is.

[00:45:06] But yeah, and it is very weird.

[00:45:07] And they never like technically credited the other actor who is according to Paul Schrader,

[00:45:12] Paul Jasmine, photographer.

[00:45:14] Wild.

[00:45:14] But yeah, very weird.

[00:45:16] Anything else about Mishima before we move on to Letterboxd reviews?

[00:45:19] No, I don't think so.

[00:45:20] I think we pretty much covered it.

[00:45:21] All right.

[00:45:22] Yeah, fair enough.

[00:45:23] I think, I think this movie is really interesting.

[00:45:24] I liked it a lot.

[00:45:25] I think I liked it more than Mike D did.

[00:45:26] And I look forward to watching again with Japanese narration.

[00:45:31] All apologies to Roy Scheider on the subject of this podcast.

[00:45:34] Yeah, yeah.

[00:45:35] I don't, I don't like people to, like, I don't mean to come away negative on this movie.

[00:45:39] I did enjoy, I think this movie is fascinating and beautiful and all that stuff.

[00:45:44] But I just, I'm just a sleepy little guy sometimes, you know?

[00:45:47] Hey, you had to do a double feature right after work.

[00:45:50] It makes sense.

[00:45:50] And I think you did the double feature in the correct order.

[00:45:53] I think if you did Hubie Halloween first and then went into Mishima, like, that would

[00:45:56] be a rough time.

[00:45:57] That would be great.

[00:45:58] Yeah.

[00:45:59] I'd be reeling from Hubie and the great cinematic heights.

[00:46:04] I'd be like, oh my God, how is it going to, how can I watch something else after that?

[00:46:07] How could I top this after Hubie Halloween?

[00:46:09] Exactly.

[00:46:10] Yeah.

[00:46:11] All right.

[00:46:12] I got some Letterboxd reviews here, Mike, from Mishima, A Life in Four Chapters.

[00:46:15] The first is a five-star review from Karsten.

[00:46:19] Overwhelmingly beautiful to a point where I definitely owe it a revisit because before

[00:46:22] I could fully digest one line, we were onto another even more layered piece of writing.

[00:46:26] Maybe one of the best written films I've seen, one of my new favorite endings, and easily

[00:46:30] my new favorite score.

[00:46:32] I am so late to this train, but Paul Schrader is the freaking man.

[00:46:36] This guy gets it.

[00:46:37] There you go.

[00:46:39] Check out Dog Eat Dog, Karsten.

[00:46:40] It's pretty good.

[00:46:42] It's got Nicolas Cage doing a Humphrey Bogart impression.

[00:46:44] All right.

[00:46:47] Here is another five-star review from Dave Jackson.

[00:46:50] This is a very long one, but here it is.

[00:46:52] Since moving to Japan, I've discovered that Yukio Mishima is still, to this day, a sore

[00:46:57] subject.

[00:46:59] In casual conversation about Japanese authors or in the classroom, the moment I mention

[00:47:03] Mishima, an uncomfortable silence settles over the room.

[00:47:06] I've learned not to mention my love of spring snow and the sailor who fell from grace with

[00:47:10] the sea.

[00:47:15] Politically, he stands against everything I believe in, and he is a hero to Japan's infuriating

[00:47:19] nationalists whose vans that pump awful militaristic tunes have become the bane of my Sunday mornings.

[00:47:25] This complexity is exactly what makes Mishima such a fascinating subject to be deconstructed

[00:47:28] on film, and to say Paul Schrader does his story justice is an understatement.

[00:47:33] Schrader tells Mishima's story through several layers of reality.

[00:47:35] The present, the past, and theatrical imaginings of Mishima's stories.

[00:47:39] The works that are chosen for adaptation perfectly paint a picture of Mishima weaving into his

[00:47:43] own life.

[00:47:44] His narcissism, his obsession with male beauty, his fetishization of the emperor and the

[00:47:48] military, his unique take on nationalism.

[00:47:51] It's all there, cutting back and forth in realities as it builds to that bleak, inevitable

[00:47:55] end.

[00:47:55] The adaptations are beautifully staged in throbbing, saturated color and set to a swelling score

[00:47:59] by Philip Glass.

[00:48:00] The art direction is staggering with gorgeous sets.

[00:48:02] The Kyoko's house sequence, drenched in pink, is particularly wonderful.

[00:48:06] The colorful fantasy of these dramatizations clash wonderfully with the flat palette of

[00:48:10] reality and the stark black and white of the past.

[00:48:13] Even Glass's score changes in between realities, taking on a much more stripped-back style when

[00:48:17] not in the Mishima-created worlds.

[00:48:19] The framework for the film, Mishima's final day, is distressing to watch.

[00:48:23] Even if you're unfamiliar with Mishima's life and fate, Schrader does not hide where we

[00:48:26] are heading.

[00:48:27] For the final seppuku sequence, Schrader washes away any false sense of grandeur and glory.

[00:48:31] After being mocked by a crowd, Kanogata as Mishima, damn, he is great in this role, kicks

[00:48:36] away debris from his violent break-in to clear a space for his suicide on an ugly carpet

[00:48:40] while the chaos from outside hums softly from the window.

[00:48:43] It's unceremonious, almost pathetically real.

[00:48:45] But somehow there is a beauty to be found as it collides with everything that brought

[00:48:49] us to this moment.

[00:48:50] It left me breathless.

[00:48:51] Ditto.

[00:48:52] There you go.

[00:48:55] Yes.

[00:48:55] No, that's a great review.

[00:48:57] And I think a really interesting perspective.

[00:48:58] You know, that's somebody who is, I think, American, who then moved to Japan to teach

[00:49:02] English, I think, is sort of the background there.

[00:49:04] Right.

[00:49:05] And yeah, no, kind of discovering like, oh yeah, no, people still really don't talk about

[00:49:09] Yukio Mishima to this day.

[00:49:10] It just isn't discussed.

[00:49:12] Here's a four and a half star review from Fran Hefner.

[00:49:16] Google.com.

[00:49:16] Has Philip Glass ever played Coachella?

[00:49:22] Okay.

[00:49:23] Yeah, sure.

[00:49:24] And one more four and a half star review from Jake Cole.

[00:49:28] This review may contain spoilers.

[00:49:30] Killing yourself to own the libs.

[00:49:34] You know, maybe more people should take that advice.

[00:49:37] Anyway.

[00:49:39] Great movie.

[00:49:39] Good movie, you know?

[00:49:41] There it is.

[00:49:42] All right.

[00:49:42] Mishima, A Life in Four Chapters.

[00:49:43] We did it.

[00:49:44] It is done.

[00:49:45] Mike D, where can we find you online this week?

[00:49:47] You can find me at MD Film Blog on Twitter and Letterboxd and Blue Sky.

[00:49:53] You can also donate to support the show on our Kofi page, which is Kofi.com slash Mike

[00:49:57] and Mike Pods, where you can donate $50 and pick a topic for our bonus episodes.

[00:50:02] Mike and Mike go to the movies.

[00:50:03] 50 bucks.

[00:50:04] We'll talk about whatever movie you want, like The Canyons, I guess, or whatever.

[00:50:07] I don't know.

[00:50:08] You could make us watch The Canyons.

[00:50:10] That's totally possible.

[00:50:10] You could make us watch The Canyons.

[00:50:10] I'm also happy to report that Paul Schrader has reviewed Dog Eat Dog four times.

[00:50:16] What?

[00:50:17] Uh, on Letterboxd.

[00:50:18] And the first one I was talking about, writing Willem Dafoe, allowing him to say the N-word

[00:50:23] in that movie.

[00:50:24] And I was like, I'm not going to read the rest of these.

[00:50:26] I'm good.

[00:50:27] I think I'm good.

[00:50:29] I mean, I'll read them, but not on the air.

[00:50:31] So anyway.

[00:50:31] Sure.

[00:50:32] Yeah.

[00:50:32] Fair enough.

[00:50:33] If you want to see what Paul Schrader thought about Dog Eat Dog, he's on Letterboxd.

[00:50:35] Yeah.

[00:50:36] There you go.

[00:50:36] Maybe one of those reviews links back to our podcast.

[00:50:38] Wouldn't that be wild?

[00:50:39] It might.

[00:50:40] That'd be wild.

[00:50:41] Um, and if you want merch, we have merch available on our Redbubble, which is mikeandmikepods.redbubble.com.

[00:50:47] That's right.

[00:50:47] You can find me online at msmithfilmblog on Twitter, mikesmithfilm on Letterboxd, radio

[00:50:51] mike sandwich on Instagram.

[00:50:52] Thank you so much for listening to Complete Works.

[00:50:53] I'm Mike Smith.

[00:50:54] It's Mike Decretio.

[00:50:55] Don't forget to rate and view the show on Apple Podcasts or any other podcast app.

[00:50:58] And if you want to contact us, you can tweet at us at CompleteWorksPod.

[00:51:01] That's W-R-K-S, no O in the word works.

[00:51:04] You can find the rest of our podcast in Rapture Press alongside many other podcasts about kinds

[00:51:07] of comic books and movie news and all that good stuff.

[00:51:09] Our theme song was created by Kyle Cullen, who you can reach for your own podcast themes

[00:51:13] at kylespodcastthemes at gmail.com.

[00:51:15] And our logo was designed by Mac V or at Fearless Guard on Twitter.

[00:51:19] Next week, Roy Scheider and a group of guys, including Frank Langella, Harvey Keitel, and

[00:51:24] Treat Williams are hanging out at the men's club.

[00:51:28] Oh, man, baby.

[00:51:30] There's no way this could go wrong in the year 2024.

[00:51:33] There's no way this comedy about a group of dudes hanging out in a brothel made in 1986

[00:51:38] is problematic in any way.

[00:51:40] In any way.

[00:51:40] No chance.

[00:51:42] We will be talking about that one next week.

[00:51:44] Remember to check out our other podcast, Mike and I Go to the Movies, for all kinds of

[00:51:46] other movie-related stuff, including recent releases, ranked lists, general discussions,

[00:51:50] and a lot more.

[00:51:51] Thanks so much for listening, guys.

[00:51:53] And remember to always roid between the lines.