Ep. 15 - Oliver Twist (1997)

[00:00:00] Alright then, keep your secrets. Get that frog out of your pants. I'm the guy. The real guy. Where do all these movies come from anyway? Just fucking ding-a-ling. I will take the ring to Mordor. Though, I do not know the way.

[00:00:24] Hello and welcome to episode 15 of The Complete Works Podcast Season 5. A deep dive into the career and films of actor Elijah Wood. My name is Mike Smith and joining me on this journey there and back again is my friend, co-host and fellow good son, Mike DiCruccio. How you doing today, Mike? I'm doing great. We started recording just in time for the sun to get below the quarter inch gap between the blinds

[00:00:53] and the bottom of the windowsill in my basement room. Okay. Now I'll just be blinded. We are recording a little bit earlier than we usually do today, Mike. Yeah. So I guess we didn't count on the fact that you're going to be blind for this entire podcast recording. I'll be blind. You know, luckily it's an audio medium and I don't have to see you. Yes. So it's fine. That is very true. Now Mike D, I feel like you already know a question I'm about to ask you. Do I want some more? No.

[00:01:18] That wasn't going to be it. The question I was about to ask is Mike D, you're an English master. Oh, sure. Yes. Indeed. How familiar are you with Oliver Twist and the larger work of Charles Dickens? I definitely read some Dickens in schools, in the various schools. Never Oliver Twist. I definitely read the other one, Great Expectations with Miss Havisham, who could forget.

[00:01:43] And that's really it, I think. I mean, we probably read some other stuff from him, but I never, I never read, uh, I'm trying to remember any other Dickens novels off the top of my head. And for some reason I'm blanking on them. So the ones I read, I mean, I read a Christmas Carol in junior high. Oh yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah. Kind of a big one, Mike. I don't know if I use a big one. That's a Muppet property to me. So it's not really. Although it's a, it's a Ty West and Johnny Depp property now, Mike. Yeah, that's right. Before he was Ebenezer, he was Scrooge or something, which doesn't make sense. I think it's the other way around. I think it's before, cause the movie's called Ebenezer.

[00:02:12] Ah, okay. Yeah. It's like the dark night of a Christmas Carols. Uh, no, uh, yeah, of course I read Christmas Carol and I also read a tale to cities in high school. That was the, that was the one that we got assigned. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. I didn't read that in high school. It was great. Definitely great expectations. Okay. Um, and I don't remember if I read any in college. I'm not sure. Okay. Uh, but broadly familiar, you know? Yeah. Fair enough. I feel like every time I'm like, you're an English master, Mike, you must know all the classics. You're like, I think I read one or two of them. I don't know.

[00:02:39] Yeah. I read some of them. And you know, you read the ones we all read in high school. And then if you don't take a class specifically on that guy in college, you don't read more of them. Yeah. That is a, that is fair. Uh, but of course, Oliver Twist, uh, is Charles Dickens's story of a young orphan boy who gets kicked out of his workhouse and falls in with a crowd of thieves who live on the street.

[00:02:59] Uh, now the book has been adapted many, many times, probably most famously in 1968's Oliver, the best picture winning film version of the Broadway musical based on the book, uh, which I have seen. That's probably the version I'm most familiar with except for, yes, the movie version, uh, the 1968's Oliver, the musical. Uh, however, I'm also pretty familiar with, uh, Disney's Oliver and company, which is also an Oliver twist adaptation. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, in which it's about cats and dogs. Uh, but yeah, so you've seen that version. I'm sure. I'm like, yeah, yeah.

[00:03:29] I've seen probably both of those. I have seen the stage play and never on Broadway. I don't think, but I've seen it performed either in high school or just like town, like a local theater troupe thing or whatever. I don't really remember, but I've seen it on the stage a couple of times that the musical version, obviously. Okay. Gotcha. Cool. So same thing broadly, broadly familiar with pop culture stuff. We get it. Yeah. You got the broad strokes, you know, the story of Oliver twist. Uh, so yeah, there's been many adaptations, Oliver and company being one there's BBC TV adaptations.

[00:03:56] There's also film versions by David lean and Roman Polanski has a version that came out with the mid two thousands. Uh, yeah, I didn't know about that, but today we're not talking about any of the big screen versions of Oliver twist, rather one that was made for the small screen as part of Disney's wonderful world of Disney block on ABC. And, uh, Elijah would likely became part of this thanks to the involvement of Mike and Mike favorite Stephen Summers.

[00:04:21] Yeah, maybe let's go. We love that guy. Uh, of course, Stephen Summers director of the mummy unrelated to this, but you know, just, uh, that's why I was Mike and Mike favorite. Uh, Stephen Summers was the director of the adventures of Huck Finn, which of course we talked about a few weeks ago on this podcast, which starred Elijah wood. And was a Disney production. So when Stephen Summers was producing and doing uncredited rewrites for a new TV movie, he was able to get Elijah to join him once again.

[00:04:47] And since he is in it, we've got to talk about 1997's Oliver twist. And now your friends at McDonald's invite you to preview the magic coming next week. Next Sunday, the Charles Dickens classic comes to life. Please, ma'am. I want some more. A young boy searches for the family. He's never known. We're your family now. Only to discover the adventure of a lifetime. Stop that boy.

[00:05:15] Academy award winner, Richard Dreyfuss. We are surrounded by the years. Elijah Wood and introducing Alex Trench. Oliver twist ABC next Sunday at seven, six central. So Oliver twist stars, Elijah Wood, not as Oliver twist. He does not play Oliver in this movie. No, no, he's a little too old. He's a little too old to play Oliver. Yeah, no. Instead he is the artful Dodger, the role most famously associated with Billy Joel as a dog in sunglasses. Correct. That's how we all think of the artful Dodger.

[00:05:46] Sure. We're first off, we're all thinking of the artful Dodger. And second off, when we, when we do think about him, it's really Joel as a dog in sunglasses. He's got street software, man. That's the, uh, uh, so yeah, the artful Dodger is the role that Oliver twist plays. Oliver twist in this film played by Alex Trench in his only film role. That's the only movie that Alex Trench ever made. Wow. Uh, from there, the other major notable name in this movie is Richard Dreyfuss, uh, who appears as Fagan, the leader of the thieves.

[00:06:15] Uh, that role was actually originally meant for Mick Jagger. Whoa. Which is wild. Uh, Mick Jagger doesn't do a ton of acting roles. Uh, I think you can probably count that on one hand. So, uh, it's wild they were trying to get him. He passed on it. Uh, so instead Richard Dreyfuss took his place and I would say is maybe doing a Mick Jagger impression, uh, or, or something. He's, he's going big in this movie. He is. Yeah. You know, that kind of does track actually when you put those two things next to each other, you're like, I could see Mick Jagger doing this. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:06:44] Uh, from there, David O'Hara from Braveheart and the Departed. He also appears in this movie as Bill Sykes, one of the thieves. Uh, the movie was written by Monty Merrick who also wrote movies like Memphis Belle and Disney's TV movie version of The Miracle Worker. Uh, and it was directed by Tony Bill who was also a prolific producer and character actor. Uh, he produced The Sting back in the 70s and he plays the president of Warner Brothers in Pee Wee's Big Adventure. So, uh, he pops up in a lot of stuff here and there. He was a longtime Hollywood guy.

[00:07:10] Uh, he also directed several movies including Flyboys, the 2006 war drama with James Franco. Which we're all thinking about right after The Artful Dodger. It goes Billy Joel as The Artful Dodger, Flyboys. Yeah, correct. That's it. Uh, Oliver Twist premiered on ABC on November 16th, 1997. Over on CBS, you could watch 60 Minutes followed by a new episode of Touched by an Angel. Over on NBC, you could watch Dateline, a new episode of Jenny, and the NBC Sunday Night Movie which was Batman Forever.

[00:07:40] On the WB, you had new episodes of The Parenthood, The Jamie Foxx Show, and The Tom Show. And most importantly, over on Fox, you had new episodes of The Simpsons and King of the Hill. Uh, The Simpsons, the one where Apu gets married. Classic. Classic. Uh, followed by a new X-Files, uh, that night too. So, strong lineup over on Fox right there. That was the channel for sure. That was, uh, the Mike channel right there. That's what I would've been watching. I was four years old, so probably I wasn't, but still. Uh, the IMDb plot synopsis for Oliver Twist reads,

[00:08:09] An orphan named Oliver Twist meets a pickpocket on the streets of London. From there, he joins a household of boys who are trained to steal for their master. Uh, so Mike D, going into the 1997 version of Oliver Twist, the TV movie adaptation. Uh, first off, you know, this movie, uh, is really only available on YouTube at the moment. And there are two different versions you can watch on YouTube. You can watch a version that is like kind of upscaled with AI to be a little more HD. I did not choose to watch that one.

[00:08:35] Uh, the other version is the version that aired in 1997 with commercials intact and an intro from Michael Eisner, uh, talking about the making of the movie. Uh, and so I watched that. It was a half hour longer than I would have watched it without it because I had all the commercials, but I wanted the full 97 experience. The authentic experience. Exactly. And I think I had a much better time with the movie as a result of it because every 15 minutes, uh, you know, it would break and be like, Oh man, a commercial for go bots or whatever, you know,

[00:09:05] just like just some kind of like antiquated thing. There were so many great commercials that were like on this new invention, invention DVD is coming around the corner. Like that kind of thing. Digital video disc. Yes. From the Toshiba company. Like what? So I'm assuming this is the version that you watch as well, Mike. Yes, correct. I did. I, I originally had found a DVD rip because this, I guess was ported to DVD somewhere. Okay. Um, but it was, uh, Italian dubbed.

[00:09:34] So like it first starts when the, when, when, you know, the opening, whatever, and it's the woman and she like falls at the gate of the, of the house, you know, uh, and the like woman comes to the gate and mutters to herself. And I'm like, okay, she's in muttering in Italian, but like, it's possible that character is Italian. Like, I don't really know yet. Uh, and then again, like the next moment, it's like multiple people talking in Italian. And I was like, ah, fuck. This is a famously British story. This doesn't seem right. Yeah. It's like, it's possible. I don't know.

[00:10:03] Um, so then, uh, yeah. So I ended up having to go to YouTube and found that version with the commercials in it and did watch that. Uh, I watched some of the commercials, but I can't, I couldn't, I had to start skipping. Yeah. I started skipping. It was fun to watch to see some of them that, like I said, the DVD Toshiba commercial, uh, that whole thing, um, a radio shack commercial. That's fun. Uh, an ad for whatever the McDonald's happy meal toys were at the time. I forget what it was, but that was fun. And there was one other one that was very funny.

[00:10:32] Uh, what's, who, who is the, who's the guy? I can't remember, but it's, it was for like, like the, the, the new invention idea of cellular mobile telephones and like, uh, and like introducing the idea of like why you might need these. Yes. Oh, that is very familiar. Here's the thing. I watched this movie, uh, at this point over two weeks ago. Uh, and, uh, so we were going to record this episode a couple of weeks ago and we got online and it turns out Mike D thought we were recording the next day.

[00:10:58] So as a result, we're now recording the episode along a lot later than we were planning to. So I haven't seen it in a while. Yeah. It'll be fine. Yes. It'll be totally fine. This is a great, uh, yeah. I don't remember who was in that commercial, but yeah, no, there was a lot of fun stuff. The radio shack one got me. I got there. It was James Earl Jones. Yes, you're right. Uh, yeah, there's a lot of old M and M's commercials, which are always fun. Uh, it's, it's wild that those commercials somehow have like a staying power to them that like they're still doing the same commercials like 30 years later. It's fine.

[00:11:29] They still just air the one at Christmas when Santa passes out and then the yellow passes out. It's like, yeah, I had that commercial on like VHS tapes back in the day because I taped stuff off my, uh, off my TV. And it's like, how is that commercial still on TV? How's it still airing? Cause it's awesome. Yeah. It's a good commercial. Um, but yeah, so I, I wanted to get that full authentic experience and that was a lot of fun. Um, but, uh, the movie itself, Mike D what? What were you expecting from the TV movie version of Oliver Twist? And, uh, what did you get coming out of it? What are your overall thoughts on this film?

[00:11:57] Well, you know, like I said, I was brought, I'm broadly familiar. I think as most American English speaking people probably are with the cons like Christmas Carol and I'll like, you know, it's like you said, just sort of those kinds of things are in the, the kind of culture. Um, so, uh, I wasn't really sure what to expect for it. I wasn't expecting it to be like as silly as it kind of is at most points, which I guess makes sense. It's a TV movie, Disney movie of the week kind of thing, but it's also like a pretty

[00:12:26] grimy story. You know, that's the, what the, like the weird thing about the Dickensian stuff, uh, is that it's like, Oh wait, these are actually horrible, like crimes against humanity basically that are happening. Uh, that we kind of, um, have these sort of things like stripped out of it that those kind of like political important, like social commentary things. Uh, and we get polished up into a fun sixties musical thing, you know? Uh, and it's like, wait a second, hold on.

[00:12:53] If you stop and think about it, these are 10 year old boys, six year old boys, whatever in a workhouse, uh, you know, like, hold on. Um, but so there's that part of it too. Uh, and it was pretty funny. I watched it with a friend of mine who was like, I don't think I've ever like, no, I don't think I know anything about Oliver Twist or that, that whole story. And I was like, you know, the police, sir, can I have some more? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, that's this, that's the whole thing. Yeah. And then it happens in the first five minutes of this. And I completely forgot.

[00:13:20] Like, I don't know if that's how it all, how early it always happens, but yeah, it's always like the inciting thing, right? Cause that's why he gets kicked out of the workhouse and onto the streets. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And he was like, oh shit. Like the, the one line I know from this movie is already happening. It's like, yeah, basically pretty much. Um, so that was pretty funny. So Oliver Twist, you know, it's like fine. It was okay. I don't know. I had a fun time with it. I think some of the accents are pretty silly. Um, and probably not intentionally. So specifically our boys, um, but we'll get into that.

[00:13:50] But, you know, my friends and I, we have a, like, I guess group vocal stim or whatever you want to call it, where it would just be like, bat that time, Dan, isn't it? Or, or, uh, well, sold his den. And that's the level of like accent work we got going on, uh, for at least Elijah Wood. Uh, but, but, uh, what's his name? Richard Dreyfuss is pretty wacky and fun, which does track for a Mick Jagger vibe. Uh, sure. In hindsight. So yeah, I had like an okay time.

[00:14:17] Um, it's not, it's 90 minutes because I skipped most of the commercials. So like, sure. Oliver Twist. Yeah. There it is. Yeah. I thought it was okay. It's an okay time. I think it's, uh, it's Oliver Twist. It hits the beats that it needs to hit. It is a short version of it, which is kind of nice. Uh, cause it's the TV movie version. Uh, so I was, I'm, I'm more broadly familiar, like I said, with Oliver and company, but also I watched the 1968 Oliver movie when I was like 10 years old, maybe, uh, it was like a big, like, it was a family movie night thing.

[00:14:45] I think my dad had taped it off TCM and was like, Hey, this movie won best picture back in the day. We're going to watch it and all that stuff. And so I was pretty familiar with the musical to the point where I remember when, uh, Ice Age came out, the movie Ice Age from 2002, when I would have been like nine years old. Uh, that movie has like a pretty extended Oliver Twist reference, uh, like a riff, uh, where all of the, uh, like, you know, the, all they're all marching through this like Canyon

[00:15:12] where a bunch of like Pelicans or whatever, ancient Ice Age version of Pelicans or toucans or whatever. They're all like looked down at them and like are thinking about eating them and they start singing food, glorious food, uh, which is one of the songs from Oliver. Wow. And, and I remember being nine years old and being the only one of my friends who like knew that song already. I was like, guys, it's like Oliver, you know? Right. So yeah, Oliver was a movie I watched at a pretty young age. I remember liking it a lot.

[00:15:40] I have not seen it since I was a kid. Uh, you know, I don't know how I'd feel about it now. I feel like you look back at like Oliver 1968 and that movie winning best picture, especially it feels like sort of like in some ways, like green book winning in 2018, like the last gasp of like a dying version of Hollywood before new Hollywood comes in, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Like the next year, like midnight cowboy wins best picture and like that kind of thing. It's like a whole different world, uh, that's entering, uh, the zeitgeist.

[00:16:07] Uh, and so Oliver feels like the last of those like big bombastic fifties and sixties musicals that would come out. Uh, of course there were still more after that, but Oliver feels like the last time it was like the big thing, I guess. Uh, cause even then like the next like musical that one, I think was like cabaret, which is a much like much more downer, uh, movie than, than Oliver is. Uh, even though, like you said, Oliver, technically it's, it's dealing with a lot of downer subjects. It's a, you know, it's a difficult movie about kids in a workhouse and a kid get it thrown on the street.

[00:16:36] But the, the musical version is like so upbeat and happy. It's like, you kind of lose that element of it. Uh, and I think this version does decent enough job of like, you know, yeah, it's, it's Oliver twist. It kind of captures the tone of the musical version without the songs in it, I guess. Um, so it's sort of where I'm going with that, but yeah, I think this movie is all right. I think Elijah Wood is fun in it. I think the kid who plays Oliver twist is okay. Uh, Richard Dreyfuss is also going big and, uh, you know, I wasn't sure if I liked that

[00:17:05] or not, but, uh, you know, I was having fun watching them. Uh, and I also appreciated the, uh, the production design and stuff like that. So I mentioned before the movie opens with a clip. Uh, if you watch it on YouTube, like the wonderful world of Disney thing, like it opens with like two minutes of Michael Eisner, then CEO of Disney, uh, just talking to the audience and being like, ah, so, you know, a lot of work went into this production. Right. And he talks about like how, uh, you know, they had to re reshape the streets of London, like film on location and, you know, bring in the period cars and the clothing and all

[00:17:35] this stuff. Uh, and it's like really highlighting like the hundreds of people that worked on this thing to get this thing ready for what is, you know, a TV movie of the week that would like quickly be forgotten anyway. Like that, you know, it's just something that's like, not like it's not going into theaters. It's not meant to be. It's just like highlighting all the work of that. And he even has some kind of line, like it's a lot of work to make a production like this and we think it's worth it or something. And I was watching that and being like, they can't even shoot like the Mandalorian and Grogu on like location anymore.

[00:18:03] You know, like they can't, they can't go to a real desert and shoot stuff. How far are we falling? Like your $300 million Disney star Wars blockbuster, like doesn't have the production level of this, this 1997 TV movie, Oliver Twist. So, uh, yeah, I wanted to highlight that because, uh, I think watching it with that like intro, like it's kind of illuminating in terms of like, this is what movies used to be. This is what just like all entertainment used to be. We used to have TV movies. Yeah, exactly.

[00:18:34] That feels wrong to say. That's crazy. Yeah. But the, and there is like a certain level of quality to this. Like it looks good. I think the production design does look solid. Yeah. The costume, like from what you can see, you know, the costumes look great. They're the, that like loft barn warehouse thing where all the, the orphans and Fagan and stuff live. Like, yeah, looks incredible. It looks, it's a real set with things on it. You know, it's nuts. Yeah. It reminds me of when we talked about Huck Finn and we're just like this one scene when they get into Jim's cabin and it's like, yeah, the lighting here is crazy.

[00:19:05] Right. They wouldn't let you do this anymore. Uh, so yeah, no, Oliver Twist 97. I don't think it's great by any means. And I wouldn't even necessarily say it's good, but it's an okay time. I had a fine time with it. Yeah. Uh, you know, it's a, it, it hits the beats that Oliver Twist needs to hit and it does it relatively effectively. Uh, but of course, Elijah Wood is in this movie in kind of the showiest role as the artful Dodger. I mean, the artful Dodger is the role you would want to play if you're one of the kids in Oliver Twist, I think. Right. Like, yeah. Cause we're all talking about it all the time. Um, for sure.

[00:19:35] He's emulating Billy Joel at every turn. At every turn. Um, but yeah, no, I agree. He's the kind of like head honcho other than, you know, of course, Fagan, who's like the puppet master of everything. But the artful Dodger is the actual best, best pickpocket. He's the, the oldest kid in the group. He's the whole, the whole shebang. He's the cool guy. Um, and I think, yeah, Elijah Wood's like fine. I don't know. Like, he's not bad. I think it's really just his accent is, is so all over the place. And he really is just doing that bad.

[00:20:04] That time didn't, isn't it? Like kind of thing. And it's just hilarious. Uh, yeah, but whatever. I think he's having fun. I think he's enjoyable in this movie. I think, uh, you know, and we're talking now about like how this fits into the Elijah Wood roles we've seen, but like, I think it's an interesting, like holdover, I guess, because we've already talked with the ice storm, the ice storm has come out, you know, and that's a movie that I feel like really signals like a shift in a maturity, a shift in like, you know, transitioning into more adult fare.

[00:20:33] Uh, the next movie we're talking about is deep impact, uh, which is a huge blockbuster movie that he's not the center of, but he's kind of the center of, uh, he's, he's a major part of that movie. He's the catalyst for why it all happens. Right. Uh, you know, and then right after that to the faculty. And so we're talking about a lot of movies that, uh, you know, represent a shift from the kind of more child friendly roles that he had, right? Uh, your Huck Fins and your Norths and all, all that stuff, uh, or the good son, again,

[00:20:59] good son rated R. So maybe not child friendly, but like, it's, it's his performances. Yeah, exactly. You know? And, uh, so I, there, there's a shift kind of happening there in terms of him becoming an older person, becoming a teenager, picking on different roles, uh, and artful Dodger in Oliver Twist, uh, a kind of like flipper kind of feels like a remnant of like, all right, well this, as the child actor, this is what you're like supposed to be doing or something like that. Uh, or, you know, you're a slightly older child actor now,

[00:21:29] we're still trying to figure out what to do with you. So you can be the lead of flipper and, uh, you can be artful Dodger in the TV movie of Oliver Twist. That's yeah. I think you can see the through line that if Huck Finn had gone back to England with the Duke or whatever that guy's name was, the con men that they're pretending to be the English nobles had come to come to London and became the artful Dodger basically. I think there's a Huck Finn energy there. Um, but yeah, no, I agree though. That's, this is sort of that kind of in between phase where it's, you know,

[00:21:59] family friendly, uh, type character, but he's one of the older kids. He's a teenager, you know, amongst all these young orphans. Um, and I think, I think you're right. What you're talking about before in the intro part or your opinions that like, it, it sort of has the energy of a musical, but like they never obviously never break in a song and maybe that's what feels like weird about it is they're always like, like, like right there, they're about to begin and they never get there.

[00:22:26] You know, it's like, okay, sure. It's just musically edging basically the whole, the whole, the whole movie. Yeah. Uh, it would have been nice if it was the full musical version of Oliver Twist, uh, of Oliver, but yeah, that's, that's not the only version that exists. You can do other ones. Uh, and quite frankly, we, if you're going to do a musical version, you should include the Billy Joel song from Oliver. Doesn't matter if they're dogs or not. Yeah. Everything goes, everything fits, you know, we all know. Yeah. They love me at the Chelsea. They adore me at the Ritz. Come on.

[00:22:55] It's, it's a classic. Uh, but, uh, yeah, no. So I think, uh, I mean, how do you think this fits into the wood roles we've seen so far, Mike, outside of the ones we've mentioned? Is there anything that, uh, stands out to you? Um, I'm trying to think, is there anything else kind of thematically? Uh, I mean, we're, I mean, it's sort of those other ones, like, like the kind of North sort of thing, flights of fantasy type deal, you know? Um, but those are those ones that are a little, when he's a little bit older, I can't think of any other examples. Um, because there's not that many, a flipper, I guess, like you

[00:23:25] said, where it's like, he's not a kid, he's not a little kid anymore. He's an adolescent. He's a teenager. Um, but, but there's not a ton of roles in that era because then very quickly, like you said, ice, uh, ice storm faculty and we're like kind of off to the races of the like adult movies or whatever, adult roles. But it's that kind of, this kind of transitionary period that we've been in for the last couple episodes. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's also a movie that, uh, involves, I mean, it's not, he's not abandoned by his

[00:23:52] family in this movie. Like he has been in other movies, but he doesn't have any family, right? He's an orphan, right? He's like living on the streets. Uh, so, you know, it's, it's different than something like flipper or the good son or paradise where he's always, where his, where he's getting dropped off for the summer by like a neglectful parent or whatever. Uh, you know, it's, it's different than that, but similar, you know, in the same, similar to her, right? Yeah. But all right. What are the scenes or moments in Oliver Twisted send out to you, Mike? Anything, anything about this movie that you feel like we have

[00:24:20] to talk about? Well, I mean the whole like plan, I kind of forget the, the kind of, uh, you know, machinations of it when they discover or what Bill Sykes, when he discovers that Oliver is like actually the grandson or whatever, or nephew of a noble or whatever the hell. Yeah. Like he's of noble birth or something. And so they're like, we can use you to get us into the big house, baby. Basically, or something is the plan. Um, and it's just like, okay, sure, man, whatever. Uh, it gets a little convoluted there, but, uh, that's probably

[00:24:50] just cause I'm not that familiar with the like specifics of the Oliver Twist story other than just like, he's an orphan and he asked for more and now he's got to work, be a pickpocket. Um, and, and all that. So I kind of forgot that whole like plot if that's, I'm sure is from the book and everything. Um, he actually turns out to be nobility, but, uh, I was kind of surprised by all that. Yeah, absolutely. I liked, uh, there's kind of a, an interesting juxtaposition it does between the two female characters in the movie who kind of acts like

[00:25:18] big sisters to, uh, Oliver Twist, uh, or have like a maternal energy towards him. Right. And so there's Nancy, who's one of the thieves, uh, who's like, you know, they're kind of oversees him and like helps him out and stuff. Uh, and then there's Rose who is like the daughter of like the governor or whatever that he stays with. Yeah. He ends up bonding with Rose and then there's the scene where, you know, he goes with her to like the market and then gets lost. And they assume that like, you know, he stole the money or whatever that he had

[00:25:45] been given to pay back the books or whatever it was. Uh, and like the thieves like take him in and all like, you know, all of that stuff is happening. Uh, but I like the way the movie kind of uses both of those characters as like sort of a push and pull of like, you have two people on the same side who want what's best for Oliver. Right. And two maternal figures. Yeah. It's these two characters that like actually want to help or save him or protect him versus everyone else is just trying to use him, um, you know, uh, to

[00:26:12] whatever. And, um, but yeah, that I was thinking of that moment, right. When he sees it, he goes to that house with Rose and sees the portrait of the lady that's in the locket he has. And I guess it's his mother or his grandmother. I don't really remember or his aunt or whatever. I think it's his grandmother, right? Cause his mother's the one who gave him the locket. And I think it's a picture of her mother or something. Right. Yes. So that's how he knows he's really, it turns out he's related to these people. Um, so that's, that's fun. Um, I'm trying to think what else, what else happens in the movie? I mean, Nancy

[00:26:40] gets killed too. We should talk about, I was going to say a bunch of people die like right in front of Oliver. Absolutely. Yeah. It's a, you know, it's a weird thing where the movie never loses that like upbeat Oliver, Oliver charm. I guess like it's still a wonderful world of Disney TV movie, but it is not shying away from the fact that people are dying. Bill Sykes accidentally gets hung in front of, uh, if right. Cause he like falls off into like a pulley or something off the roof into like a pulley thing into some ropes and ends

[00:27:07] up being hanged, uh, which is crazy. Uh, and they're all just like, Oh, well, Victorian England. And they all just like, what can you do? Yeah. The crowd just disperses. Like what's going on? Another day in the life, you know? Yeah. And they go off to their chimney sweep, uh, jobs and die. Yeah. Yeah. But you have that. I did like, uh, you know, you mentioned the scene at the beginning where he does the please, sir, can I have some more? And, uh, yeah, that scene is pretty solid. They do a good job with that. I think that's the thing

[00:27:35] they're doing. I'm doing the Leo point to him saying, please, sir, can I have some more? Yeah, absolutely. The, and because I watched Oliver at 19 six, it, when I was nine years old or whatever, like, you know, I always have my, in my head, like the reaction that guy has where it's like more, you want more. Uh, so yeah, I think this movie did a pretty good job with that. Uh, and, uh, yeah. And I liked, uh, the friendship between Oliver and, uh, the Dodger, uh, Elijah would, you know, doing his little cockney accents, uh,

[00:28:02] having fun with it. Uh, yeah, he's got his top hat and he's, uh, you know, when they first meet and, uh, I think Oliver's like trying to steal bread in the street and Dodger kind of gives him tips on how to do it. Uh, and then like they slip away or they like, you know, split up and all that kind of stuff. It's fun. It's a good time. Yeah. They get up to, to urchin hijinks for a while, you know, that is a good subtitle for Oliver twist. Actually, they get urchin hijinks, urchin hijinks. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but all right. I mean, that's, that's Oliver twist, I guess, Mike, unless you have anything else to say about this movie,

[00:28:32] this feels like one that we can be pretty quick on, especially because we kind of watched it a while ago and, uh, haven't had the chance to record the episode yet. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's not a ton else. I'll, I'll just also highlight, even though we've said it a couple of times, but Richard Dreyfuss on 11, uh, for the whole movie, it's pretty fun. Absolutely. Yes. Uh, and he kind of just, uh, he doesn't die at the end, right? He like, uh, Fagan just kind of like gets caught by the police and then, uh, that's it. You know, I couldn't tell you.

[00:29:00] Cause he and Oliver have like a heart to heart at the end. I think, uh, yeah. He gives him back his locket. I think, you know what? Maybe I was a monster. I'll change from now on. Yeah. That's, that's basically it. Basically. Yeah. I don't really remember what happens to him at the end of it, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I'll Oliver turns out he is like the grandson of Mr. Brownlow and all that stuff. And so he gets to sleep, he gets to live the rest of his days as, as a rich kid now. Right. You know, totally non-traumatized, well-adjusted person,

[00:29:27] I'm sure. Um, but as far as Fagan's concerned, yeah, I don't really remember what happens. Okay. And then Dodger, I think, uh, he gets arrested. He like, uh, Elijah Wood gets arrested at the end. Any one of these characters you could tell me that they walk into a, like a, uh, fog, if walk down a folly, foggy alleyway and we never see them again. And I would believe you. I mean, Dodger gets arrested, but he's like doing it with like a wink and a smile. It's like, oh, I'll be back on the streets by dinner time. You'll see. Uh, weirdly, I'm going to bring it up again.

[00:29:56] So at the end of, uh, Shanghai nights, Aaron Taylor Johnson, I got to watch this movie one of these days. And he turns out his name's Chaplin, Charlie Chaplin. Um, and that's what all of these guys, every character in this movie is like. Sounds like Aaron Taylor Johnson pretending to be Charlie Chaplin. Yeah. And then he wipes his nose and leaves a little smudge of a mustache under it and then winks at the camera. I think literally happens. Right. Yeah. I can't wait to watch Shanghai

[00:30:25] nights. Uh, it's going to be great. Yeah. It's going to be a fun time. Uh, all right. Should we talk about letterbox reviews Mike? Should we move on to what the people have to say? Yes. I'm very curious to know what the people had to say about this 1997 TV movie. Yeah, absolutely. So we've got some letterbox reviews here. Here's a three and a half star review from max 75, which reads, I would make fun of Elijah Wood's weird cockney accent, but he was just a kid. And luckily for, and luckily for him, I just watched Keanu Reeves and Dracula and I'm in a forgiving mood.

[00:30:53] Fair. I think that, I think the, the most important thing to think about for the future, uh, is the evolution of his accent from this to Lord of the Rings. Cause that's like, cause he's putting on a little bit more of a British accent in that movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's consistent. I guess it's not like the cockney thing, which, you know, is what's the, what's in this that makes it so wonky. It would be incredible if he, if Frodo was just like, all will take the ring to mortal governor. It was just the hobbits had a cockney accent.

[00:31:22] That'd be so funny. But I don't know the way I don't, uh, I'd maybe pretty good. Uh, I mean, pretty sick actually. Yeah. All right then. Keep your secrets. Uh, uh, I got a one and a half star review here from Teal Wolf, which reads, this is an Oliver twist. All of the characters who are supposed to be wicked are played as too nice, including Bill Sykes, who should be terrifying. I admit that I only wanted to watch this movie because Elijah Wood was in it. He isn't great, but his exaggerated British accent is hilarious.

[00:31:52] Also this version felt weird without musical numbers. See? Okay. Yeah. We're not the only ones that had that kind of, it's in between those two things and it's like, where, what are we doing? Yeah, absolutely. And I got one more review here, Mike. It's a three and a half star review from Jeremy Greg, which reads parts of this are really hard to watch. Not because it's bad. It's an incredible film, but Oliver just wants to do good. And the entire world is against him. The set design is pristine, wonderful music. All the actors are wonderful. It's very weird seeing

[00:32:18] Elijah Wood taller than people. That's a good point actually, but a very happy ending well-deserved. And yes, that is a good point. I feel like, uh, especially for people who largely know Elijah would through Lord of the Rings, I would imagine if, and you, and honestly, he's not that tall of a person in the first place, right? Like he's not a super tall guy. I think it's a pretty short guy. Yeah. Uh, so to see him, uh, you know, as the slightly older kid, taller than Oliver Twist, all that stuff. Yeah. A little surreal. That's funny. That's such a weird perspective thing. I never

[00:32:47] didn't even consider, but yeah, absolutely. Uh, and all right, that is the 1997 wonderful world of TV, uh, wonderful world of Disney version of Oliver Twist. We did it, Mike. Like we did it easy. They should all be like this. Uh, yeah, well, usually we have more to say on a, on a specific movie, but sometimes, sometimes we don't, uh, I think we should watch all of the movies two weeks before we record. So we don't remember anything and we can be in and out in 30

[00:33:13] minutes grasping at straws to figure out what it is we're talking about. Uh, yes, no, uh, we promised that our next episode, deep impact will be, we just watched it last night. I just watched it last night at least. So, uh, that'll be, uh, that'll be coming up. Uh, all right, Mike D, where can we find you online this week? You can find me at MD film blog on letterboxd and blue sky. You can also donate to support the show on our Kofi page, Kofi.com slash Mike and Mike pods. If you want to donate $50, you can pick a bonus episode of Mike and Mike go to the movies. Whoa, I panicked. I didn't

[00:33:42] know what to say there. Scary. I was, I was running through my mind palace trying to think of a movie to suggest and I forgot what the, what the actual sentence was going to be. Yeah. Uh, and I didn't even get to a movie to suggest. So pick whatever you want. I don't know. Shanghai nights, Shanghai nights. Yeah. That'd be fun. Um, and if you want merch, we have merch available on our red bubble, Mike and Mike pods dot red bubble.com. That's right. You can find me online at Ms. Smith film blog on Twitter and blue sky, Mike Smith film on letterbox radio, Mike sandwich and Instagram. Thank you so much for listening to complete works. I'm Mike Smith. I'm a decreed show. Don't forget to

[00:34:12] rate and review the show on Apple podcast or any other podcast app. If you want to contact us, go to blue sky at complete works pod. You can also find us on Instagram at complete works pod. You can find the rest of our podcast and rapture press alongside many other podcasts, all kinds of comic books and movie news and all that good stuff. Our theme song was created by Kyle Cullen. He can reach your own podcast themes at Kyle's podcast, themes at gmail.com. And our logo was designed by Mac V or at fearless guard on blue sky. Next week, we got a Mike and Mike favorite question mark. You had never seen this movie actually, right? Mike, is it deep impact?

[00:34:41] Yeah. That's what we're talking about. That's next. Okay. I don't remember what order things come out in. Um, yeah, correct. Yeah. This is the first time I'd ever seen it. Okay. Uh, well when next week, we are talking about deep impact Elijah would discover a comment that's coming straight for earth and we are bringing producer Colin along for that episode because he is our disaster movie expert. Uh, so he'll be talking about that one as well. Uh, remember to check out our other podcast, Mike and Mike go to the movies for all kinds of other movie related stuff, including recent releases, ranked lists, general discussions, and more. Thanks so much for listening guys. Join us next time. Would you?