This week, Roy Scheider is contractually obligated to return for the sequel to the biggest movie of his career - it's time for JAWS 2! Nick Wermuth joins us to dig into why this sequel, despite its troubled production, actually does a solid job of continuing the story of Chief Brody and his family.
[00:00:00] It's showtime, folks!
[00:00:02] Some bad-haired arythes.
[00:00:04] What was the way to the car when you got it here?
[00:00:06] You're not right for Maro. You just don't care.
[00:00:09] Then why?!
[00:00:11] Oh, sons of bitches. I didn't know.
[00:00:15] I didn't know.
[00:00:19] You're gonna need a bigger punch.
[00:00:22] Hello and welcome to Episode 15 of The Complete Works Season 4,
[00:00:27] a deep dive into the career and films of actor Roy Scheider.
[00:00:31] My name is Mike Smith, and join me on this journey across the Scheiderverse
[00:00:35] is my friend, co-host, and fellow Roy Boy.
[00:00:38] Mike Creecio.
[00:00:39] How you doing, Mike?
[00:00:40] I'm doing great. It's an exciting day here.
[00:00:42] I feel like 15 is a pretty quick turnaround to start being in, like, immediate capitalization sequels.
[00:00:48] Like, and we're going for it.
[00:00:51] Yeah, I mean, like we've kind of said, the 70s run of Roy Scheider.
[00:00:53] There's not a ton of movies, but all of them are, like, pretty big.
[00:00:56] This is certainly, if not up there in terms of the quality of the other films,
[00:01:00] it's certainly a big movie for sure, and we'll talk about that in just a couple of minutes.
[00:01:05] But Mike, we have a guest joining us today.
[00:01:06] We do. First time of the season, and like second time ever for Complete Works, I think, right?
[00:01:10] Yeah, it's happened a couple of times often with this guy, in fact.
[00:01:15] Also joining us today, returning to The Complete Works after being on both the Jeff Goldblum season
[00:01:20] for Life of Quaritical Steve Zizou and the Michelle Yeoh season for Tomorrow Never Dies,
[00:01:24] Nick Wormuth. Welcome back to the podcast.
[00:01:26] I'm happy to be a fellow boy of Roy.
[00:01:29] Welcome to the squad.
[00:01:31] Yes, yeah. Welcome, Nick.
[00:01:32] And you specifically requested today's episode.
[00:01:36] This is the one that you wanted to be on.
[00:01:37] I feel like this is the one that garners the most.
[00:01:40] Like it needs a supporter to come out.
[00:01:42] Well, I guess we'll see what the rest of you think, but I don't know.
[00:01:45] I feel like, yes, everyone's going to cry for jaws.
[00:01:48] People want to see Sorcerer, all that jazz, but I'm here to support the underdog
[00:01:53] that made like $250 million.
[00:01:57] Total underdog.
[00:01:58] It was like the seventh highest grossing film of its year, you know, something like that.
[00:02:01] It was pretty big.
[00:02:02] Not even top five.
[00:02:03] That's very true.
[00:02:04] Now guys, did you know that Roy Scheider was originally supposed to be in Michael Chimino's The Deer Hunter?
[00:02:12] Whoa.
[00:02:13] Which came out in 1978.
[00:02:14] Nick, were you aware of this?
[00:02:15] Yes.
[00:02:16] Okay.
[00:02:16] I mean, I feel like you've researched this movie specifically pretty thoroughly,
[00:02:20] which is why you would know that, right?
[00:02:22] Yes.
[00:02:23] I know about his contractual obligations and all these other reasons why he reluctantly did this movie,
[00:02:29] which I still love.
[00:02:30] So yes, so Roy Scheider was supposed to be in The Deer Hunter.
[00:02:33] He was signed on.
[00:02:34] He was set to play the lead role in the film, but two weeks before filming,
[00:02:37] he dropped out due to creative differences.
[00:02:40] The role was then recast with Robert De Niro,
[00:02:43] and that movie became a classic in its own right.
[00:02:45] But Roy Scheider was contracted to Universal for a three-picture deal,
[00:02:48] which included the original jaws and Sorcerer.
[00:02:50] The Deer Hunter would have been the last film he had to fulfill,
[00:02:54] but the studio offered to forgive his failure to fulfill his contract only on the condition
[00:02:59] that instead of making The Deer Hunter,
[00:03:01] he would sign on to lead the sequel to Jaws,
[00:03:03] which was already deep in production.
[00:03:05] So they were going to release him from his third movie by making him do a third movie?
[00:03:11] Well, basically like they were going to sue him otherwise.
[00:03:14] I think that's the idea.
[00:03:15] Like he dropped out of his contract.
[00:03:16] In fact, he failed to fulfill his contractual obligations.
[00:03:21] So this ended up taking the spot of The Deer Hunter in his contract.
[00:03:25] Understood now.
[00:03:25] Now Scheider did not want to do this.
[00:03:30] Yeah, as you can imagine, on an artistic level,
[00:03:33] he felt there was nothing new to do here
[00:03:35] and people didn't care if Brody was in the movie.
[00:03:38] They just wanted to see the shark.
[00:03:40] That was kind of his mentality.
[00:03:41] The fact that Steven Spielberg wasn't coming back was also a big turn off,
[00:03:45] but Universal then drove a dump truck full of money to his house,
[00:03:50] quadrupling his base salary from the first film,
[00:03:53] and he reluctantly said yes.
[00:03:55] Financially, a pretty good deal for Roy Scheider.
[00:03:57] He dropped out of The Deer Hunter,
[00:03:58] could have been sued,
[00:03:59] and instead made four times what he made on the original Jaws.
[00:04:03] What followed is a movie whose production,
[00:04:05] like the original Jaws, was fraught with problems.
[00:04:08] And since Roy Scheider is in it,
[00:04:10] we've got to talk about Jaws 2.
[00:04:16] The terror continues.
[00:04:22] In all the vast and unknown depths of the ocean,
[00:04:27] how could there have been only one?
[00:04:46] Chief?
[00:04:49] Chief Brody.
[00:04:51] Can we go please?
[00:04:53] You think we may have another short problem?
[00:04:55] Are you serious?
[00:04:58] Roy Scheider.
[00:04:59] I want to play dead.
[00:05:04] Lorraine Gary.
[00:05:08] And Murray Harrelton.
[00:05:10] Look at this, that's a shark.
[00:05:18] You started a panic on a public beach.
[00:05:22] Now what if somebody decides to sue us?
[00:05:24] That's a shark.
[00:05:26] Did you ever stop to think about that?
[00:05:29] And I'm not a shark, looks like, because I've seen one up close.
[00:05:33] You better do something about this one,
[00:05:35] because I don't intend to go through that hell again.
[00:05:38] Don't press it this time.
[00:05:39] Find it out there.
[00:05:47] None of man's fantasies of evil
[00:05:49] can compare with the reality
[00:05:53] of Jaws.
[00:05:55] Jaws.
[00:06:06] So right after Jaws became the biggest movie of all time,
[00:06:10] Universal wanted to move on a sequel right away,
[00:06:12] as you can imagine.
[00:06:13] So Richard Zinnick and David Brown,
[00:06:14] they returned to produce it early on,
[00:06:16] figuring it was going to be made anyway,
[00:06:18] so they might as well be the ones to make it.
[00:06:20] But Steven Spielberg declined to return,
[00:06:23] saying that making a sequel to anything
[00:06:25] is just a cheap, currenty trick.
[00:06:27] And then he would later direct three Indiana Jones sequels
[00:06:31] and a Jurassic Park sequel as well.
[00:06:34] The dump truck full of money is hard to ignore.
[00:06:37] This is true, this is true.
[00:06:38] This is why Robert Downey Jr. is back
[00:06:40] as Dr. Doom in the Avengers Doomsday.
[00:06:42] A few sequel ideas were thrown around
[00:06:44] at the script writing level.
[00:06:45] One of them was about the sons of Brody and Quint,
[00:06:48] hunting down a brand new shark.
[00:06:50] And another idea was a prequel actually about Quint
[00:06:52] during the sinking of the USS Indianapolis.
[00:06:55] And for more on that,
[00:06:56] you can see the Nicholas Cage movie,
[00:06:57] USS Indianapolis, Men of Courage,
[00:06:59] which we talked about on this podcast many years ago.
[00:07:01] Yeah.
[00:07:02] It's bad.
[00:07:03] No good.
[00:07:04] Have you ever seen USS Indianapolis, Nick,
[00:07:06] the Nicholas Cage movie?
[00:07:07] Unfortunately not.
[00:07:09] Does it star a young like CGI deep fake of Robert Shaw?
[00:07:15] No, Quint, the character does not appear in the movie,
[00:07:18] which is a little bit of a bummer.
[00:07:20] Seems like a missed opportunity
[00:07:21] to name somebody Quint.
[00:07:23] Yeah, a little bit.
[00:07:24] I mean, I think it's trying to be more historically accurate
[00:07:26] than that.
[00:07:27] Did it succeed on that front?
[00:07:29] No, not really.
[00:07:31] But I do remember watching that movie
[00:07:32] and in the review being like,
[00:07:34] this like 100 minute movie is not as good
[00:07:36] as the three minute monologue that Quint has in Jaws.
[00:07:39] Why are they even doing that?
[00:07:41] Those were a couple of the sequel ideas.
[00:07:42] Sid Schiemberg, the universal executive
[00:07:44] who was married to Lorraine Gary,
[00:07:45] who plays Ellen Brody,
[00:07:47] also kept pitching a movie where she was
[00:07:49] the main character,
[00:07:50] who would go out on the boat and rescue the kids
[00:07:53] and she would eventually be the main character
[00:07:55] of Jaws the Revenge.
[00:07:56] And she has a bigger role in this movie,
[00:07:58] kind of as a result of his meddling.
[00:08:00] A director was chosen in John D. Hancock
[00:08:03] who filmed Jaws 2 for about a month
[00:08:06] and then he was fired.
[00:08:08] Yeah, he was actually shooting
[00:08:10] a darker movie than Universal wanted
[00:08:12] and they were looking for a much more action-oriented story.
[00:08:15] Once he was fired for a brief moment,
[00:08:17] Steven Spielberg did consider
[00:08:19] coming back for Jaws 2,
[00:08:21] because after all, dump truck full of money.
[00:08:23] That's the key.
[00:08:25] But he was deep into work on Close Encounters
[00:08:27] and he couldn't do it.
[00:08:27] But Carl Gottlieb, who also co-wrote the first one,
[00:08:30] was brought back on to help add more humor
[00:08:32] to the proceedings, much like he was for the first Jaws.
[00:08:34] Eventually, French filmmaker Genois Schwarre,
[00:08:38] Geno Schwerk, I think that's how you pronounce it.
[00:08:41] Schwerk.
[00:08:44] Geno Schwerk, then best known
[00:08:46] for directing a William Castle Horror movie called Bug,
[00:08:49] was hired to finish the film.
[00:08:51] He would also go on to direct 1984's Supergirl
[00:08:53] and 1985's Santa Claus The Movie.
[00:08:56] So Roy Scheider reprised his role as chief Martin Brody
[00:09:00] alongside Lorraine Gary as Ellen Brody
[00:09:02] and Murray Hamilton as Mayor Larry Vaughn.
[00:09:04] Also returning from the first film
[00:09:06] are Jeffrey Kramer as Deputy Hendricks
[00:09:08] and Fritzi Jane Courtney as Mrs. Taft,
[00:09:11] just one of the Islanders.
[00:09:12] It was fun to see her again.
[00:09:13] I was excited that she was in this movie.
[00:09:14] We've got Joseph Moskolo from Days of Our Lives
[00:09:16] as Len Peterson, Colin Wilcox from Tequila Mockingbird
[00:09:20] as Dr. Elkins, Donna Wilkes,
[00:09:22] the star of Mike D's favorite movie, Angel.
[00:09:25] I did the Leo point. I was like, Angel.
[00:09:28] She plays Jackie Peters, one of the teens.
[00:09:31] Mark Gruner and Mark Gilpin,
[00:09:33] the brother of Perry Gilpin from Frasier
[00:09:35] plays Michael and Sean Brody, Brody's kids.
[00:09:37] Keith Gordon, the lead of John Carpenter's Christine
[00:09:40] plays Doug Letterman.
[00:09:41] Billy Van Zant, the brother of Stephen Van Zant
[00:09:44] plays Bob and Gigi Vorgan also from Red Dawn
[00:09:48] plays Brooke Peters.
[00:09:50] The movie was written by Carl Gottlieb and Howard Sackler.
[00:09:53] Sackler also did an uncredited rewrite
[00:09:55] of the first movie
[00:09:56] and is supposedly the one who came up
[00:09:58] with Quinta Indianapolis speech,
[00:10:00] so pretty big figure in the Jaws canon.
[00:10:02] And it was directed by Jean-Aub Chavarque
[00:10:04] three years after Bug in two years
[00:10:06] before his next movie, 1980s Somewhere in Time
[00:10:10] starring Christopher Reeve.
[00:10:11] Jaws 2 was released on June 16th, 1978
[00:10:15] and was expected to be the hit of the summer.
[00:10:19] But it kind of got overshadowed
[00:10:21] by another movie which released on the same day.
[00:10:24] Jaws 2 was number one in its first week,
[00:10:26] but for the next few weeks,
[00:10:28] America had grease lightening, baby.
[00:10:30] It was grease.
[00:10:32] Grease was in fact the number one
[00:10:34] highest grossing movie of 1978.
[00:10:37] The rest of the top 10 includes Superman
[00:10:39] at number two, Grease outgrows Superman.
[00:10:42] Can you imagine a world today where that happened?
[00:10:44] I mean it's impressive that Superman was number two
[00:10:46] in pre-comic book.
[00:10:48] Like I can't imagine like superhero comic-wick movies
[00:10:50] before the last Tony years.
[00:10:53] I mean I know obviously they existed,
[00:10:55] but it's pretty impressive that that hit all the way up to number two.
[00:10:58] Yeah, Superman was huge, but not as huge as Grease.
[00:11:00] Grease was number one, Superman 2.
[00:11:02] Then it was Animal House, Every Which Way But Loose.
[00:11:04] Heaven Can Wait.
[00:11:05] Hooper, Jaws 2 at number seven,
[00:11:08] Revenge of the Pink Panther, The Deer Hunter,
[00:11:11] and then rounding out the top 10 is
[00:11:12] John Carpenter's Halloween, Stacked Year I guess.
[00:11:15] Stacked Year.
[00:11:16] Impressive that that's I think the third or fourth
[00:11:18] Pink Panther movie we've talked about
[00:11:20] in a top 10. Pink Panther, a resilient franchise
[00:11:23] throughout the 60s and 70s.
[00:11:25] Can't be stopped.
[00:11:25] Was Peter Sellers still alive or is this one of the ones
[00:11:28] where they're just kind of using his B-roll
[00:11:29] and someone else walks around?
[00:11:31] At this point, we've talked about this before.
[00:11:34] I think we're well past Peter Sellers
[00:11:36] being in these movies, right, Mike?
[00:11:38] I don't remember.
[00:11:39] I definitely know at a certain point it's like,
[00:11:42] yeah, he's no longer there and then of course
[00:11:43] the all the Steve Martins and stuff in the modern era.
[00:11:46] But yeah, I forget the exact timeline.
[00:11:49] Revenge of the Pink Panther is the final
[00:11:50] on-set performance of Peter Sellers in the role
[00:11:52] of Jacques Lusso.
[00:11:53] Got it.
[00:11:54] Is it like Ed Wood where he walks out,
[00:11:56] smells a flower and then they just,
[00:11:58] it's a guy covering his face the rest of the movie?
[00:12:00] I forget what year or what episode it was,
[00:12:02] but there were two Pink Panthers,
[00:12:04] like the first and second movie were in the same box office.
[00:12:08] Remember, the first one was around so long,
[00:12:10] the second one had come out already?
[00:12:12] Right, yeah.
[00:12:14] It was crazy.
[00:12:15] Yes, yeah, absolutely.
[00:12:16] And I remember we had talked about it.
[00:12:17] I think the reason we talked about it for so long
[00:12:19] is because we started going through all the movies
[00:12:21] and we're like, yeah, there was six ones
[00:12:22] with Peter Sellers in them
[00:12:25] and then they started using archive footage
[00:12:26] and then it's like, oh wait,
[00:12:28] Roger Moore played Inspector Lusso in a movie?
[00:12:30] That was, yeah.
[00:12:31] And it's like canon with the rest of them
[00:12:33] but it's because Inspector Lusso is a master of disguise
[00:12:35] and instead of being Peter Sellers,
[00:12:38] he's just Roger Morph like a cameo at the end
[00:12:40] of one of the movies.
[00:12:41] There's a rich history of the Pink Panther series
[00:12:43] that we've really only scratched the surface on
[00:12:45] on this podcast.
[00:12:46] Pink Panther season five I think is not an actor,
[00:12:48] the concept of the Pink Panther.
[00:12:51] Yeah, so that's going to include the Pink Panther cartoon,
[00:12:54] all that stuff.
[00:12:55] Fiverrglass insulation.
[00:12:57] Yeah, exactly, yeah.
[00:12:59] The IMDB plot synopsis for Jaws 2 reads,
[00:13:02] police chief Brody must protect the citizens of Amity
[00:13:05] after a second monstrous shark begins terrorizing the waters.
[00:13:08] Now Nick, we brought you on this podcast
[00:13:10] because you are an ardent defender of Jaws 2.
[00:13:14] You are somebody who I actually,
[00:13:16] I looked through your letterbox,
[00:13:17] you have logged Jaws 2 I think six times
[00:13:20] in the past like six years or something like that.
[00:13:22] You don't have to call me out on Mike but yeah.
[00:13:24] I'm saying, yeah.
[00:13:26] That's a lot of times to watch Jaws 2 is all I'm saying.
[00:13:29] He's got the statistics.
[00:13:31] Yeah, obviously you're a fan of the original Jaws.
[00:13:34] Who isn't?
[00:13:34] It's the best but Jaws 2 and I think the Jaws sequels in general
[00:13:39] are something that me and Mike D,
[00:13:40] we've talked about this before,
[00:13:41] we've seen all the sequels once,
[00:13:43] like exactly one time and we both saw them
[00:13:46] when we were like 11 or 12 years old,
[00:13:47] like at an AMC marathon or something,
[00:13:49] like it would just be on cable.
[00:13:51] And I think Mike D,
[00:13:52] you said you watched them all in one sitting, right?
[00:13:53] Like Jaws 2, 3 and 4 just.
[00:13:55] Yeah, I think it was like Thanksgiving day or something
[00:13:58] and I was sick and I remember that was the story
[00:14:00] that I was mad that I had you get out of bed
[00:14:02] because I was very sick
[00:14:03] and interrupt my Jaws sequel marathon
[00:14:05] to have Thanksgiving dinner.
[00:14:07] And I was like, no, I'm just going to eat in bed.
[00:14:10] I'm like, no, you can't do that.
[00:14:11] I'm going to see this shark break through
[00:14:12] the plexiglass of the sea world.
[00:14:14] Yeah, exactly.
[00:14:16] Yeah, and similarly I had seen,
[00:14:18] I didn't do them all at once
[00:14:19] but I saw Jaws 2, 3 and 4,
[00:14:20] like I think I DVR'd them off of AMC one day
[00:14:23] and watched them all in pretty quick succession
[00:14:27] and didn't really like any of them.
[00:14:28] I remember thinking they were all pretty boring or bad
[00:14:30] and I had not watched any of the sequels since.
[00:14:33] I have seen the original Jaws a million times
[00:14:35] and in between these episodes of the podcast actually,
[00:14:37] in between our Jaws recording
[00:14:39] and our Jaws 2 recording,
[00:14:41] I also read the book for the first time.
[00:14:43] Wow.
[00:14:43] So I've now read Jaws as well.
[00:14:45] But yeah, this is the first time I've rewatched Jaws 2
[00:14:48] since I was maybe 11 or 12.
[00:14:50] But Nick, you're an ardent fan of Jaws 2.
[00:14:52] How did you come to be somebody
[00:14:53] who was a big fan of Jaws 2?
[00:14:55] Why are you the way you are?
[00:14:57] Yeah.
[00:14:59] That's a lot to unpack but I'll try to stay focused.
[00:15:02] It's one of those things where like,
[00:15:04] so Jaws is without a doubt my favorite movie.
[00:15:08] I'm sure if you pulled up the stats on Letterbox for that
[00:15:10] you'd see at least two, three times a year
[00:15:12] since I started logging on that app.
[00:15:14] With something like that,
[00:15:15] you kind of want your fix.
[00:15:17] You don't want to keep watching the one movie
[00:15:18] that you love over and over to the point
[00:15:20] where it's dwindling returns.
[00:15:23] So the closest thing you can get is the sequels
[00:15:26] and like as opposed to three which is horrendous
[00:15:30] and four which is at least fun.
[00:15:32] Two shares a lot of the same DNA.
[00:15:35] Like you've mentioned,
[00:15:35] a good majority of the people involved in the creative side
[00:15:39] minus Spielberg were still there.
[00:15:41] Reuscheiter's still there.
[00:15:42] A lot of the supporting cast is still there.
[00:15:44] It has enough DNA of the original Jaws
[00:15:47] where yes, I'm never going to claim that this Jaws 2
[00:15:50] is within the same stratosphere as the first Jaws.
[00:15:54] It has so much in common and it's a continuation.
[00:15:58] It's somewhat hacky, but it does a good job of it.
[00:16:02] We can go more into this later
[00:16:03] but I feel like it does a better job of sequelizing
[00:16:06] than a lot of quick knockoffs
[00:16:08] and I think that's as a result of
[00:16:10] they brought back Reuscheiter
[00:16:11] so they had to keep the quality a little bit more
[00:16:14] than just we're going to follow these teens
[00:16:16] as they get eaten by sharks.
[00:16:17] Yeah, no, I think you're right.
[00:16:18] One thing that I think is interesting about Jaws 2
[00:16:20] like within the context of larger film spectrum,
[00:16:24] Jaws is kind of generally positioned
[00:16:26] as the first blockbuster.
[00:16:27] It's like that first movie that was so huge
[00:16:29] everybody went to go see, made so much money
[00:16:31] all that stuff.
[00:16:32] Jaws 2 is sort of the first blockbuster sequel
[00:16:36] in that regard and in a lot of ways,
[00:16:40] I don't know why watching it again,
[00:16:41] I was like this is basically a Friday the 13th movie
[00:16:43] with a shark.
[00:16:45] And this is like two years before
[00:16:46] the first Friday the 13th movie even came out.
[00:16:48] It has like a lot in common with like slasher sequels
[00:16:52] that we would kind of get especially in the 80s.
[00:16:54] Looking at it within that context
[00:16:56] and being like there's really like not a blueprint
[00:16:57] for what a sequel to a blockbuster is supposed to be.
[00:17:01] I think Jaws 2, I enjoyed it a lot more
[00:17:04] than I expected to.
[00:17:05] I think it's pretty solid fun.
[00:17:08] I had a good time with it as well as I'll say
[00:17:10] and it was also, yeah, I think just interesting to be like,
[00:17:12] oh yeah, I've seen Reuscheiter play Brody a million times.
[00:17:15] I forgot he's also in Jaws 2.
[00:17:17] He's the star of it.
[00:17:19] Here he is again.
[00:17:19] And it's a new stuff kind of that
[00:17:21] because I haven't watched this in like 20 years.
[00:17:24] Yeah, Mike D, what were your overall thoughts on Jaws 2?
[00:17:27] What did you expect going into it having seen it the one time?
[00:17:29] And do you feel like it did anything for you?
[00:17:32] So yeah, I didn't really remember anything about Jaws 2
[00:17:37] when, so like since the last time I watched it
[00:17:39] like I couldn't tell you a scene
[00:17:40] or a line or anything like that.
[00:17:42] It is interesting though.
[00:17:43] I think I forget and maybe just broadly pop culture we forget
[00:17:46] that like the tagline or like just when you thought it was safe
[00:17:49] to go back in the water is from Jaws 2.
[00:17:51] Right, yeah.
[00:17:52] Make sense?
[00:17:52] When you think about it like, yeah, of course.
[00:17:54] Why would this be the tagline to Jaws 1?
[00:17:56] That doesn't make sense.
[00:17:58] But that tagline is definitely very iconic or whatever.
[00:18:02] So I remembered that.
[00:18:04] And yeah, I think Jaws 2 is fine.
[00:18:07] It's okay.
[00:18:08] I don't think it's, I don't know if it really has
[00:18:10] the reputation necessarily of three and four
[00:18:13] of just being like awful,
[00:18:15] but definitely a lesser reputation.
[00:18:17] And I guess I sort of just agree with that.
[00:18:19] I don't know.
[00:18:20] It's it was fine.
[00:18:21] I sort of felt a little bored a little bit every now and then
[00:18:23] like we get to shark attack stuff,
[00:18:24] but it takes a long time to get to those teens
[00:18:26] being picked off by the shark,
[00:18:28] like the slashery kind of thing.
[00:18:30] And it definitely feels like we've already done this.
[00:18:34] We've already done this where nobody believes Brody,
[00:18:36] there's a shark.
[00:18:37] Why do we have to spend 45 minutes doing that again?
[00:18:40] You know, and I was surprised.
[00:18:43] And I guess it makes sense when you hear the original director
[00:18:46] was fired because he was making too dark of a movie.
[00:18:49] But like I was shocked at like Brody's just like an alcoholic
[00:18:52] burnout PTSD guy now pretty much.
[00:18:56] And he's traumatized by the events of the first film.
[00:18:58] Who wouldn't be?
[00:18:59] And I guess there's other people,
[00:19:01] the city council guys weren't,
[00:19:02] even though the mayor seems pretty traumatized
[00:19:04] at the end of the first one after the boat,
[00:19:06] after the beach attack scene.
[00:19:08] So for him to go from that to just being like,
[00:19:11] no, there's no sharks here again.
[00:19:13] I was like, wait a second, come on.
[00:19:15] It didn't hurt his voting base.
[00:19:17] So why did it matter?
[00:19:18] I guess not.
[00:19:18] He's still mayor.
[00:19:19] Everyone else is still the same town council is still there.
[00:19:23] So yeah, I don't know.
[00:19:25] I think it's fine.
[00:19:26] I don't think it deserves to be like as maligned maybe
[00:19:30] as it is, but I don't know if it necessarily has
[00:19:32] that kind of reputation.
[00:19:33] Like I said, of the way three and four are usually talked about,
[00:19:35] just being like kind of worthless, which is crazy.
[00:19:38] I don't think it's that bad, but I do feel sort of bored
[00:19:40] for most of it until we get to the shark action stuff
[00:19:43] in the third act.
[00:19:43] That's interesting.
[00:19:44] I almost feel the opposite where I was much more into
[00:19:47] the first like hour and a half.
[00:19:48] And by the time you get to the shark action
[00:19:49] in the back in the last half hour,
[00:19:51] I was like, yeah, I mean, it's fun.
[00:19:53] I like seeing sharks attack people,
[00:19:54] but I think at a certain point,
[00:19:55] it's just like it's doing that over and over again.
[00:19:58] There's not like a lot of variety in the kills.
[00:20:00] Although there is some very creative and fun kills
[00:20:03] in this movie very early on.
[00:20:04] And this clip was shared on Twitter a few weeks ago
[00:20:06] and I was like, man, I'm excited to rewatch Jaws too
[00:20:09] is when the girl accidentally explodes her own boat
[00:20:11] while the shark is attacking.
[00:20:13] That girl who essentially is pouring gas
[00:20:15] just directly on her face for no reason.
[00:20:20] It's pretty great.
[00:20:21] Like I just say, it's a really fun, goofy moment.
[00:20:23] I really enjoyed the fact that the shark has super speed now.
[00:20:27] You just just and there's like a scar on the shark now
[00:20:30] to kind of differentiate it from the first one
[00:20:31] and kind of make it a little creepier.
[00:20:32] Well, it's so weird.
[00:20:34] I mean, I guess movie I didn't necessarily notice.
[00:20:36] Does it get burned when the ship explodes?
[00:20:37] The boat explodes?
[00:20:38] I think so.
[00:20:38] I think it's probably.
[00:20:39] So yeah, so the gasoline gets on him.
[00:20:41] Got it.
[00:20:43] But one interesting thing to your point, Mike,
[00:20:44] is that when John Hancock was fired,
[00:20:47] he was getting fired for making a much darker movie.
[00:20:49] In his version of the movie,
[00:20:51] Amity was like on the brink of collapse.
[00:20:53] Like because of the events of the first film,
[00:20:55] like it was sort of like, you know,
[00:20:56] like yes, we lost the summer dollars
[00:20:58] and now the entire town is like, is going down the,
[00:21:01] like, you know, people are fleeing.
[00:21:02] Like it's going to be like abandoned town soon.
[00:21:04] Wow.
[00:21:05] Because of all this.
[00:21:06] And that was like an elements that was drastically changed
[00:21:10] once Hancock was fired and they brought on Gino's Fark
[00:21:13] to make it like a more lighthearted adventure kind of film.
[00:21:17] Instead, they make Ellen Brody part of like
[00:21:19] the gentrification brigade of Amity
[00:21:20] where she's like trying to build luxury condos.
[00:21:23] Yes.
[00:21:24] And it's what it's all about, baby.
[00:21:25] We need those condo dollars now.
[00:21:26] You're like, okay, sure.
[00:21:29] Yeah. But speaking of, so I read the book
[00:21:32] in between these reviews, Jaws one and two.
[00:21:35] And so yeah, I had never read the book before
[00:21:37] despite Jaws being my favorite movie like you, Nick.
[00:21:39] But Nick, have you read the book Jaws?
[00:21:41] Yes.
[00:21:42] And I'm sure a lot of what I'm thinking you're about to say.
[00:21:45] Yeah.
[00:21:46] So the book is pretty similar to the movie,
[00:21:49] I think with a few like pretty major differences.
[00:21:52] Like it all like structurally kind of all happens the same way.
[00:21:54] But very famously, and we've talked about this in the Jaws episode,
[00:21:58] you know, a part of the, like the backstory for the mayor in the book
[00:22:02] is that, you know, he is so intent on the town
[00:22:05] and the beach is staying open because he's heavily in debt to the mob
[00:22:08] and needs that money to pay off the mob
[00:22:10] so that he can continue running his like as mayor
[00:22:12] and all that kind of stuff.
[00:22:14] And he's like run out of town by the end of the movie.
[00:22:16] He's like, he's disappeared or end of the book, I mean.
[00:22:19] And none of that is in these movies at all.
[00:22:21] And so the mayor is just sort of this capitalist figurehead
[00:22:24] in the movies where he's like, well, no, the beach is having to stay open
[00:22:26] because we need more money.
[00:22:28] And that's basically it.
[00:22:30] But yeah, there is like an extra layer of backstories
[00:22:32] to the mayor in the book.
[00:22:34] And also, I mean, Mike D mentioned this in our Jaws episode
[00:22:37] and I didn't know about this in the book.
[00:22:39] Hooper and Ellen have like a torrid love affair,
[00:22:42] which lasts for a good chunk of it.
[00:22:45] I mean, like half the book is basically just that.
[00:22:47] Yeah.
[00:22:48] And it's pretty wild to like read the book
[00:22:50] and that was sort of the most thrilling part of the book to me
[00:22:53] because I didn't know what was going to happen next.
[00:22:55] I was like, I have no idea where this is going.
[00:22:57] So there was a few key differences in the book.
[00:22:59] But also, yeah, if you have, if you've never read the book Jaws
[00:23:02] but you've seen the movies, recommend the book.
[00:23:04] It's actually pretty good.
[00:23:05] I feel like I had always been told it wasn't that good of a book
[00:23:07] and like the movie was a huge improvement.
[00:23:08] And it kind of, I mean, the movie is a huge improvement
[00:23:10] on the book in every way, I think.
[00:23:11] But like it's still a good book.
[00:23:12] I think if you're looking for like the squash buckling adventure
[00:23:15] of the movie and like the thrills,
[00:23:17] you're probably not going to want five chapters
[00:23:19] of Ellen Brody getting ready to have an affair.
[00:23:23] So I can understand it.
[00:23:25] I read the book when I was like 11
[00:23:26] because I was like, I love this movie.
[00:23:28] I should read this book.
[00:23:29] And then like again, the points you're talking about
[00:23:31] and I'm like, isn't there a shark at some point?
[00:23:35] But I do like this book mentions rape a lot more than I expected.
[00:23:39] Yeah.
[00:23:40] But I will say one of the things that I like about Jaws too
[00:23:42] is I think it does a good job of implementing
[00:23:45] some of those ideas from the novel into it now
[00:23:48] where like you said, Ellen's part of that gentrification committee.
[00:23:52] There's that realtor who's coming in to try to sell
[00:23:54] like luxury condos like underneath it
[00:23:57] and is trying to like bleed them dry.
[00:24:00] Obviously the town's on on like the brink of collapse
[00:24:03] like the book.
[00:24:04] I think there's a lot of interesting aspects
[00:24:06] that they were able to carry over that don't feel rehashy.
[00:24:10] Again, try to defend the movie as much as I possibly can.
[00:24:13] One of the things that I think is so interesting
[00:24:15] is I feel like the first movie is a lot of
[00:24:17] Brody knows what's happened and local government is preventing him
[00:24:20] from protecting the people.
[00:24:22] And then this is almost kind of like
[00:24:24] what does a town hero do after he's already
[00:24:27] like done the amazing thing?
[00:24:30] Where he's like the beginning of the movie
[00:24:32] he's late to Ellen's big thing.
[00:24:35] He's not really doing anything important.
[00:24:37] He's still getting the same random complaints
[00:24:39] from townspeople that are just like they're karateing the fences again.
[00:24:42] And like he kind of needs another big break
[00:24:45] to prove himself as like, well, I did this once.
[00:24:49] So honestly for the first 45% of the movie
[00:24:52] you can almost be like, is there a shark?
[00:24:54] Or is this guy just kind of he's screaming.
[00:24:57] He's looking at blurry photographs and going,
[00:24:59] see that's an eye.
[00:25:00] He's shooting into the middle of the lake
[00:25:02] and like the lake, the ocean.
[00:25:05] But like I feel like that is a lot
[00:25:09] of the most interesting parts of the movie
[00:25:10] and they could have easily just rehashed it.
[00:25:13] And another interesting thing that I think
[00:25:15] should be in the movie and is a deleted scene
[00:25:18] is again, not to jump too far ahead in the plot
[00:25:21] but when they are trying to get rid of Martin
[00:25:23] as the sheriff, the one vote that tries to keep him on
[00:25:28] is the mayor because he's like
[00:25:30] he defended the town in the past.
[00:25:32] I doubted him in the past.
[00:25:34] So every single other person votes him out as sheriff
[00:25:37] except for the mayor.
[00:25:38] That seems important.
[00:25:39] Why'd I got that?
[00:25:40] No fucking idea.
[00:25:41] Because yeah, like you said, if you just watch the movie again now
[00:25:43] you're like this guy is the biggest villain in the world.
[00:25:46] He has crocodile tears while they were in the hospital
[00:25:48] in the first one and now he's like,
[00:25:50] fuck you get out of here.
[00:25:51] So I think the shark stuff is the stuff
[00:25:53] that feels like a rehash to me
[00:25:54] where it's like kind of just doing the shark again.
[00:25:56] It's like yep, it's another shark.
[00:25:57] But I think the rest of it does feel
[00:25:59] like a true continuation of Jaws.
[00:26:02] And I think in the blockbuster landscape
[00:26:04] that was to come, I think in the past
[00:26:07] sequels tended to be more of just
[00:26:08] let's do the same thing again.
[00:26:11] And we certainly still get those every once in a while.
[00:26:12] But I think for the most part, like once you get to the 80s
[00:26:15] and once Star Wars starts making sequels
[00:26:17] it really becomes like we have to continue
[00:26:19] and further the story in some way, right?
[00:26:21] This needs to be a complete saga that we're telling.
[00:26:24] And I think Jaws 2 sort of feels like a weird mishmash
[00:26:27] of those two kind of sequelizing ideas.
[00:26:29] One of the good things that this movie does is
[00:26:32] a lot of the first movie is how is Brody dealing with this
[00:26:35] and as much as the kids are pretty irritating
[00:26:37] and the latter half of it is a lot of repetitive
[00:26:39] like they're on the boats, the shark jumps on the boat
[00:26:42] someone falls in the water, someone's dead.
[00:26:44] We need to introduce a bunch of generic teens
[00:26:47] so that they can get eaten by the shark.
[00:26:49] But at least you get victim perspective
[00:26:51] where in the first movie again,
[00:26:54] in no way am I trying to dismiss any part of Jaws.
[00:26:58] You know what sucks? Jaws. You know what rules?
[00:27:00] Jaws too.
[00:27:02] But in the first one you're getting a lot of
[00:27:04] oh how is this guy going to deal with it?
[00:27:07] And in this movie you get a lot more of
[00:27:08] well these are the victims, this is how they have to handle it.
[00:27:12] There's another scene where like two remote teens
[00:27:15] are on a boat and it's one of my favorite scenes
[00:27:17] in the whole movie where like it's just two teenagers
[00:27:19] getting attacked in the middle of the ocean
[00:27:21] not knowing what's going on.
[00:27:23] And as much as like the Alex Kittner stuff
[00:27:25] in the first movie is harrowing,
[00:27:27] they cut immediately from a little boy getting eaten
[00:27:30] to not his mom, not anyone else on the beach
[00:27:33] but Martin sitting on his chair going
[00:27:35] oh shit that's a lot of paperwork.
[00:27:37] Like they could be focusing a bit more
[00:27:40] on the people getting attacked by sharks.
[00:27:42] I think there's so many,
[00:27:44] I mean there's so many more people that get attacked by sharks
[00:27:46] in this movie too.
[00:27:47] I mean they really up the body count of the shark in this one.
[00:27:50] And so I think that's an element of it too
[00:27:52] is you get to see much more from their perspective
[00:27:54] and you also get Brody's kids into the mix also.
[00:27:57] So it like makes them as part of the teen group
[00:27:59] so that you do have some kind of personal connection
[00:28:02] to that group.
[00:28:04] I do think that stuff is pretty interesting
[00:28:06] and actually funny to think about it in the
[00:28:08] sort of proto slasher,
[00:28:10] it's the same year as Halloween right?
[00:28:13] Or year after or whatever.
[00:28:14] Same year.
[00:28:15] Those two teens are about to have sex on the boat
[00:28:18] when they get attacked.
[00:28:19] It's following all this,
[00:28:21] they're all going out drinking at the lighthouse
[00:28:23] or whatever is what's gonna happen.
[00:28:24] They wanna go party so they all die.
[00:28:26] So it's like already those rules,
[00:28:29] which I mean is what Halloween is also about too.
[00:28:32] But yeah it's pretty funny,
[00:28:33] I never really considered that
[00:28:35] and that's always sort of the thing with Jaws 1
[00:28:37] also is everyone's like well you know
[00:28:38] it's a monster movie basically.
[00:28:40] So it's like the franchise has always been
[00:28:43] sort of playing in those horror tropes a little bit.
[00:28:46] Yeah absolutely.
[00:28:47] I mean it is a horror franchise really,
[00:28:49] it's about sharks attacking people you know.
[00:28:51] But I do like that teen group
[00:28:54] and I was like kind of shocked how much
[00:28:55] of the original supporting cast came back
[00:28:57] like we talked about.
[00:28:59] And then how many like Keith Gordon
[00:29:00] and Angel and a couple other people
[00:29:02] that I recognized from other 80s
[00:29:05] kind of exploitation horror movies.
[00:29:06] So it's like oh shit,
[00:29:07] that's kind of a recognizable young actors
[00:29:10] that are about to be in a lot of these movies
[00:29:12] that I like.
[00:29:13] So that was a fun aspect of this for me.
[00:29:15] Yeah definitely.
[00:29:16] Really the only major cast member
[00:29:17] that didn't come back,
[00:29:18] obviously Robert Shaw couldn't
[00:29:20] because his character died.
[00:29:21] But Richard Dreyfus did not come back
[00:29:23] for this movie and there is like
[00:29:24] a quick line of dialogue that kind of
[00:29:26] tells you like oh this is why
[00:29:28] Hooper is not in this movie basically.
[00:29:30] There's somebody from Antarctica called
[00:29:31] said Hooper is out on this expedition
[00:29:32] and Shidr is like yeah I called him
[00:29:34] and it's kind of Ellen's clue
[00:29:35] like there might be a shark.
[00:29:37] That's happening.
[00:29:38] But yeah it kind of gives the excuse
[00:29:39] like yeah Hooper is out on an expedition
[00:29:40] he's not around this time around.
[00:29:43] The real reason is that Richard Dreyfus
[00:29:45] was A making close encounters
[00:29:47] at the same time
[00:29:48] and B didn't want to do it
[00:29:50] without Steven Spielberg is basically the thing.
[00:29:52] And I think the studio kind of saw it
[00:29:53] as well as long as we got Shidr
[00:29:54] we got something to sell this movie.
[00:29:56] Got somebody.
[00:29:57] It was so noticeable in the opening credits though
[00:29:59] and that first credit in Jaws is
[00:30:01] you know Robert Shaw, Richard Dreyfus
[00:30:04] and Roy Shidr.
[00:30:05] And Roy Shidr and then in this one
[00:30:07] it's like just Roy Shidr's name alone.
[00:30:09] Like one good for him.
[00:30:11] He's the top billing guy but like two
[00:30:15] the power of the three of those actors
[00:30:16] together on that one title card
[00:30:18] and the credit is so good.
[00:30:20] I mean that is part of the alchemy
[00:30:21] of what makes Jaws great is those three guys
[00:30:23] working together right.
[00:30:24] The way they play off each other.
[00:30:26] And in this one you're kind of just following
[00:30:28] Chief Brody as he sort of slowly goes insane.
[00:30:32] Yeah, it's descent into madness.
[00:30:34] Exactly and that is pretty entertaining
[00:30:36] to watch I think for a while.
[00:30:37] So Roy Shidr is in this movie
[00:30:39] what do you think of his performance?
[00:30:41] Mike D since we, I'll start with you
[00:30:42] since we have 14 other movies to draw from.
[00:30:45] I think it is pretty in line
[00:30:48] with some of the stuff we've been talking about
[00:30:50] with Shidr in general.
[00:30:51] One of the things we talked about in the Jaws episode
[00:30:54] is how it that sort of feels like a
[00:30:55] bit of a departure sort of like an almost
[00:30:57] meta commentary on
[00:31:00] Shidr's persona up to that point
[00:31:02] he's always playing like the tough city
[00:31:03] New York cop who's trying to root out
[00:31:06] evil who has given that up to
[00:31:08] move to an island and be the
[00:31:10] chief of police in Jaws right.
[00:31:11] So it almost feels like all the other roles that he's been
[00:31:13] playing up to Jaws directly
[00:31:15] lead into Chief Brody.
[00:31:17] In Jaws 2 it feels like
[00:31:19] he talks about, he's like alcohol,
[00:31:20] I mean he drinks a lot in the first one too
[00:31:22] but it feels like he's doing it to
[00:31:24] in Jaws 2 as like a trauma response.
[00:31:26] Yeah like drawing out his sorrows or whatever.
[00:31:28] It leads, like circles back around
[00:31:31] to all those other dark gritty cop movies
[00:31:32] that he was in so much.
[00:31:35] So yeah, but I think he's great.
[00:31:37] I think he's given a really great performance.
[00:31:38] I think there is a couple times
[00:31:40] I can't think of any like specific scenes
[00:31:42] other than actually the last scene
[00:31:44] when he's like trying to hold the cable
[00:31:47] and doing that.
[00:31:48] That just feels like he doesn't want to be doing this.
[00:31:52] It feels like where it's the same
[00:31:55] moment from the end of Jaws and
[00:31:56] it feels like he knows that and
[00:31:58] you can kind of tell a little bit.
[00:32:00] But every now and then it slips out
[00:32:01] other places in the movie where you're like
[00:32:03] wow okay, dump truck full of money kind of situation.
[00:32:07] But he does, we
[00:32:08] haven't seen him phoned and didn't get this all the way
[00:32:10] if he does ever get there.
[00:32:12] So I don't know.
[00:32:13] But overall he's really good.
[00:32:15] Yeah, no, I really liked his performance in this movie
[00:32:18] despite knowing that like yeah,
[00:32:19] he really didn't want to do this movie.
[00:32:20] He was very reluctant to take on the part of Jaws 2.
[00:32:23] And I know that he and
[00:32:25] the director really were at odds
[00:32:27] with their vision of what Jaws 2 should be.
[00:32:30] I'm not sure what his relationship was
[00:32:31] with the first director, John Hancock,
[00:32:33] but Gino Schwarz was that they
[00:32:35] actually like constantly were fighting
[00:32:37] and they constantly didn't really have a consistent idea
[00:32:39] like what the vision of the movie should be.
[00:32:41] But Roy Scheider had said that like he pledged
[00:32:42] even though he didn't want to do the movie
[00:32:44] he was pledged to do the best he could
[00:32:46] with what he was given. Like he was trying to do a good performance.
[00:32:49] And there was a moment where he
[00:32:51] and Gino Schwarz went into a meeting together
[00:32:53] because of how many differences they had
[00:32:55] on set, they like went into a meeting together
[00:32:57] to talk it out and they ended up in a fist fight.
[00:33:01] Just like came to blows because they could not see
[00:33:03] eye to eye on how Jaws 2 was supposed to go.
[00:33:07] If there's any actor I would
[00:33:08] 100% believe
[00:33:09] fist fights every director.
[00:33:12] Roy Scheider.
[00:33:13] He was an amateur boxer back in the day.
[00:33:15] I tried to forget it.
[00:33:16] Yeah, but I do think he's very good in this movie
[00:33:20] and I think does a really good job of showing
[00:33:21] like the continuation of like what happens
[00:33:24] to Chief Brody after Jaws.
[00:33:25] I think that's pretty cool to kind of see him
[00:33:28] unravel that.
[00:33:29] Nick, what are your thoughts on Roy Scheider
[00:33:31] in Jaws 2? Well first off I'd like to
[00:33:33] just say I cannot possibly imagine
[00:33:35] what he would have done in him in The Deer Hunter.
[00:33:38] He looks about 15 years
[00:33:39] older than Robert De Niro or Christopher Walken
[00:33:42] or anyone else so like
[00:33:43] At that time, yeah, definitely.
[00:33:45] Just having that leathery man wander in
[00:33:47] and be like, yes I am your contemporary
[00:33:49] would be a little bit odd. Speaking of leathery man
[00:33:51] I think this is second shorts movie, right?
[00:33:54] Yeah, the second movie where he wears shorts
[00:33:56] is what you're talking about.
[00:33:57] I mean the first one will be Jaws, right?
[00:33:58] Yeah, that's what I mean, yeah.
[00:34:00] Is that a running counter you have?
[00:34:02] It is, yeah.
[00:34:05] Yeah, there's a shorts watch.
[00:34:06] He might have worn shorts in Sorcerer.
[00:34:08] Now that I'm thinking about it. That's a sweaty movie.
[00:34:10] It is a sweaty movie, you're right.
[00:34:11] But I don't remember, I don't know.
[00:34:13] Yeah, I feel like we didn't pay close enough attention
[00:34:15] but it came to our attention that Roy Scheider
[00:34:18] is an actor who wears shorts a lot
[00:34:19] in movies and we are trying
[00:34:22] to keep track of that. But he definitely wore shorts
[00:34:24] in Jaws 2. Oh, 100%.
[00:34:25] He's got a killer, we'll get back to his acting
[00:34:27] he's got a killer fit at the end of the
[00:34:30] movie where he's got the little short shorts
[00:34:31] like the slide on shoes and then
[00:34:33] like an armor jacket. Yeah, he looks
[00:34:35] fucking great. If I lived in a small
[00:34:38] beach town that's exactly what I would wear too.
[00:34:41] But I think
[00:34:42] it's similar to what you were saying
[00:34:45] I think it's
[00:34:46] miraculous that this was a contractual
[00:34:48] obligation and yet he did not
[00:34:50] attempt to phone it in at all.
[00:34:52] I think a lot of
[00:34:54] like the deterioration of his own
[00:34:56] sanity throughout it is
[00:34:57] really, really well acted.
[00:35:00] There's one specific scene where
[00:35:01] he's on the beach with Sean after
[00:35:03] he's like fired into the
[00:35:05] school of bluefish or whatever
[00:35:07] where it's almost like a mirror
[00:35:09] image of the scene from Jaws
[00:35:11] where like Sean is copying him
[00:35:13] like drink water and make faces at the table
[00:35:15] except this time he has to watch
[00:35:17] his dad realize his mistakes
[00:35:19] and he's helping him like pick up shells
[00:35:21] on the beach and stuff like that. And it goes from
[00:35:23] like a moment of admiration to a moment
[00:35:25] of like I pity this man that
[00:35:27] no one can trust anymore
[00:35:29] and I think Shiter just does an incredible
[00:35:31] job in scenes like that
[00:35:33] just looking completely
[00:35:35] distraught and destroyed. He's very
[00:35:37] good at drunk acting also after he gets
[00:35:39] fired. I don't know if that's acting or if he's just drunk
[00:35:42] but
[00:35:43] I think he does an incredible job here
[00:35:45] and the fact that he'd be willing
[00:35:47] to fight the director of a movie
[00:35:49] he didn't want to be in because it wasn't following
[00:35:51] what he thought it should be is insane
[00:35:55] he was passionate. He was passionate about
[00:35:57] his work and he had already been
[00:35:59] at part of like several really tough
[00:36:01] shoots. You know obviously Jaws
[00:36:03] 1 was very difficult
[00:36:05] but he is coming right off a sorcerer with this
[00:36:07] movie. Did he not fight Freedkin
[00:36:09] at any point? Like it's insane
[00:36:11] that like Freedkin reveres him
[00:36:13] and is like oh yeah you know that was a good guy
[00:36:15] and he's like I'll kill this Frenchman with my bare hands.
[00:36:18] I mean he and Freedkin were not on the best of terms
[00:36:21] they did make sorcerers together and it was sort of like
[00:36:23] they fought a lot but it wasn't
[00:36:25] like it didn't come to a fistfight
[00:36:28] from what I understand.
[00:36:29] But also Freedkin is just a he's a wild
[00:36:31] card too. He was insane in the 70s
[00:36:33] we've talked about that with French connection and sorcerer
[00:36:35] how in French connection they filmed that car
[00:36:37] chase without permits and were just like actually hitting
[00:36:39] cars in the streets and sorcerer
[00:36:41] he like hired an arsonist to come down
[00:36:43] and like make the explosions bigger and all that stuff
[00:36:45] there's crazy shit that William Freedkin was up to.
[00:36:49] I didn't know this
[00:36:49] till we did the episode for sorcerer that
[00:36:51] Reischider wanted to be Father Charis
[00:36:53] in the Exorcist and like
[00:36:55] resented Freedkin for that.
[00:36:56] And thinking about him and Dear Hunter
[00:36:58] and then thinking about him in the Exorcist it's like
[00:37:00] holy shit that like an exorcist is amazing
[00:37:03] but holy shit that could have been Reischider
[00:37:04] you know? Yeah, that's two
[00:37:06] huge movies right there that Reischider
[00:37:08] could have been in and added
[00:37:11] to this insane 70s run
[00:37:12] that he already like there's already
[00:37:15] a lot of insane big movies
[00:37:16] it's Clute, it's French connection, it's the 7 Ups
[00:37:19] it's Jaws, I mean 7 Ups isn't as big
[00:37:21] as those ones but Jaws, Marathon Man
[00:37:23] Sorcerer and all that jazz coming up
[00:37:25] but if he had made the Exorcist
[00:37:27] or Dear Hunter we probably wouldn't have gotten
[00:37:29] maybe one or two of those other movies
[00:37:31] I mean certainly Jaws 2 would have existed
[00:37:33] but he wouldn't have been in it probably
[00:37:35] I was gonna say notice you didn't include Jaws 2
[00:37:37] in that list. Well you know
[00:37:40] As much as I did enjoy Jaws 2
[00:37:42] I'm not sure it reaches the caliber of something
[00:37:43] like Marathon Man or something you know
[00:37:45] it's fair but I think it's a
[00:37:47] pretty good horror sequel. Are there any sharks
[00:37:49] in Marathon Man? I can't say there are
[00:37:51] there's not philosophically
[00:37:53] he's sort of like a shark
[00:37:54] I yield my time
[00:37:59] I'm gonna let my opponent run in circles
[00:38:01] but yeah I think Reischider
[00:38:03] is really great in this movie despite
[00:38:04] not wanting to be in it
[00:38:07] and sort of being forced into that
[00:38:09] position, forced into accepting
[00:38:11] a large pile of money he does a really good
[00:38:13] job with what he's given here
[00:38:14] and I think watching the deterioration
[00:38:16] of Brody is like the movie's
[00:38:18] strongest feature and I think
[00:38:20] when you lose Brody, again I haven't seen
[00:38:22] Jaws 3 and 4 since I was 11
[00:38:23] I feel like losing Brody is a key part of
[00:38:26] why those movies don't work which
[00:38:28] Jaws 3 is about his kids again
[00:38:30] they're recast again it's like they go
[00:38:32] to SeaWorld or whatever and the shark
[00:38:34] breaks free in SeaWorld and it's like alright
[00:38:35] whatever. Dennis Quaid is
[00:38:38] Michael and he is a
[00:38:40] for some reason he goes from being
[00:38:42] like child who is scared
[00:38:44] of the water to
[00:38:46] I'm going to be a architect
[00:38:48] at SeaWorld like he's
[00:38:50] an engineer there and then
[00:38:52] by the fourth one he's a marine
[00:38:54] biologist so just depending on the movie
[00:38:56] they just switch his job title
[00:38:58] it's also insane that
[00:39:00] SeaWorld was like we'll sign off on this movie
[00:39:02] that shows that all of our management is corrupt
[00:39:04] idiots that will allow this massive
[00:39:06] shark to come in and bust through
[00:39:08] and try to kill hundreds of people but
[00:39:10] it's in 3D and the 3D looks like dog shit
[00:39:12] and I have the mood right here
[00:39:14] Do you really? Oh hey
[00:39:15] there it is. It's the Jaws collection which has
[00:39:18] 2, 3 and 4
[00:39:19] not the first one. Not the first one?
[00:39:21] Yeah that'd be too expensive. But the Jaws sequence
[00:39:23] collection that's like 8 bucks
[00:39:25] It's like 8 bucks. Yeah nice.
[00:39:28] Yeah so yeah Jaws 3 I know
[00:39:29] is the one in SeaWorld and then Jaws the Revenge
[00:39:32] I know Michael Cain's in it. Yes
[00:39:34] and Ellen Brody
[00:39:35] is the star of it now and at that
[00:39:38] point I think Ray Shider has
[00:39:39] his character dies off screen or something
[00:39:41] right? They do like
[00:39:43] they refer to his heart attack or something
[00:39:46] and I believe this
[00:39:48] might have come up either on the Furiosa
[00:39:50] episode or we were talking about it right afterwards
[00:39:52] but there's a scene in
[00:39:54] Jaws 4 where it starts
[00:39:55] where Sean is a cop now
[00:39:57] and he goes out to move a log
[00:39:59] off a buoy and the shark kills
[00:40:02] him and it is so apparent
[00:40:04] that that was supposed to be
[00:40:06] how Brody died which is why Ellen
[00:40:08] is like going to the Bahamas
[00:40:09] and gets chased by a shark
[00:40:11] which we can go into more Jaws 4 if you want
[00:40:14] the novelization states explicitly
[00:40:16] that it's voodoo and it is
[00:40:18] a family curse that is
[00:40:20] causing the shark to chase them from
[00:40:21] essentially
[00:40:23] Montauk down to the Bahamas
[00:40:24] Right. It's literally
[00:40:26] like Curse of the Thorn
[00:40:28] Halloween sequel. Yeah
[00:40:31] or like Scream Black-Ellis Scream
[00:40:33] like it is the most like
[00:40:34] exploitation movie
[00:40:35] like plot which is
[00:40:37] three movies after a best picture nominee
[00:40:39] and this is insane.
[00:40:43] Amazing.
[00:40:44] Yeah that is nuts and this movie does
[00:40:46] there is a moment in
[00:40:48] Jaws 2 where they kind of float the possibility
[00:40:50] that this shark is related to
[00:40:52] the first shark where they do say something
[00:40:54] like I think Brody kind of mentions like some kind of like
[00:40:56] personal grudge or like they like oh sharks
[00:40:58] don't hold grudges Mr. Brody
[00:40:59] he's talking about the possibility that it could be related to
[00:41:02] the original one and that's kind
[00:41:04] of the last you hear of it but like there's it's floating
[00:41:06] out there like this the shark might be related to the first
[00:41:08] one. Well I feel like there's a he makes
[00:41:10] an indication about like dolphins
[00:41:11] respond to like sonar
[00:41:14] and sharks have a nerve
[00:41:16] center called the Ampulai
[00:41:18] of Lorenzini which allows
[00:41:20] them like that's how they feel
[00:41:22] this is where all my
[00:41:23] shark book I read as a child. I saw Shark Link
[00:41:25] Yeah. Where it like
[00:41:27] once you see people splashing and like
[00:41:30] all these different types of movement that's how sharks
[00:41:32] know to go there so I think what they're
[00:41:34] trying to infer
[00:41:36] very haphazardly is
[00:41:38] that maybe the explosion of this big shark
[00:41:41] attracted this other
[00:41:42] very big shark or it's Jaws wife
[00:41:44] your choice.
[00:41:46] Yeah well to me that's because I remember
[00:41:48] that like as it was coming up right or
[00:41:50] like I sort of like isn't the shark like related
[00:41:52] or something like they try and do something like that
[00:41:54] to me that scene actually comes off as
[00:41:55] his descent into madness like he's so
[00:41:58] paranoid he's so scared
[00:41:59] he thinks that could this shark have sent
[00:42:01] a signal out and as it died right like
[00:42:04] because that's when they're
[00:42:06] investigating the dead orca
[00:42:08] on the beach. Yeah.
[00:42:09] I really love. He's like get the bite radius
[00:42:11] like suddenly he knows. I love that about it
[00:42:13] like where they look at the bite radius and he immediately
[00:42:15] is like you gotta like see the bite radius
[00:42:17] and this thing you gotta like it's like seven feet tall like
[00:42:19] seven feet wide that's exactly what the old one was like
[00:42:21] but he knows immediately this is a shark
[00:42:23] and I like that he like learned from the first
[00:42:25] movie he like has that knowledge
[00:42:27] you know. But is it knowledge or is it a
[00:42:29] hyper fixation and I think that's
[00:42:31] that's what a lot of the movies playing
[00:42:33] with which is why I find that those parts
[00:42:36] so interesting is because he sounds
[00:42:37] like a crazy person like to everyone else
[00:42:40] they're like just
[00:42:41] rest on your laurels you came here you
[00:42:44] did a good thing we all just kind of let
[00:42:46] you coast being the small town sheriff
[00:42:48] because it's not yeah seemingly their
[00:42:50] biggest crime is there's one guy who goes
[00:42:52] to the police station to be like my neighbors
[00:42:53] dancing around in a towel and it's making
[00:42:55] my child corrupt like that's
[00:42:57] the extent of their crime
[00:42:59] so yeah the guy just wants
[00:43:01] another big break essentially
[00:43:03] so he's like well I gotta make it sound
[00:43:05] like it's a shark and then finds every
[00:43:07] bit of evidence like leading up
[00:43:09] to the actual shark attacks at the end
[00:43:11] nothing ever happens that anyone can
[00:43:13] see and I'm not saying that it's like
[00:43:15] oh it's all in Brody's head or something but
[00:43:17] it almost seems like at a certain point
[00:43:19] they could just not have the shark show up
[00:43:21] and just Brody just loses his mind
[00:43:23] trying to justify like
[00:43:25] well it has to be a shark if this problem
[00:43:27] is going on it has to be a shark but it's time
[00:43:29] you get to him sealing cyanide
[00:43:31] onto the tips of his bullets with wax
[00:43:34] he's pretty far
[00:43:35] out deep and you can
[00:43:36] you can see a version of this movie
[00:43:39] that ends with him having gone insane
[00:43:41] and like throwing himself off of a jetty or something
[00:43:43] off the lighthouse you know like
[00:43:45] which is funny because we talked about that
[00:43:47] in Jaws the first episode
[00:43:49] the first Jaws review and just in general
[00:43:51] in these 70's movies that phenomenon
[00:43:53] of 70's movies ending so
[00:43:55] bleak every time it's
[00:43:57] the bleakest possible ending
[00:43:58] which is why movies like Jaws and Rocky
[00:44:01] and all these other examples
[00:44:02] that end triumphantly Star Wars right
[00:44:05] are gigantic breakout hits
[00:44:07] because everything else is so depressing
[00:44:08] and this feels like you can see that
[00:44:11] like the wavering between those two
[00:44:13] modes in Jaws 2
[00:44:14] yeah no I think that's absolutely right
[00:44:16] yeah we were talking about that last week with Sorcerer
[00:44:17] which Sorcerer has like the bleakest ending
[00:44:19] possible and that movie
[00:44:22] famously bombed to the box office
[00:44:23] and partially bombed to the box office because it was released
[00:44:26] like a couple weeks after Star Wars
[00:44:27] and Star Wars just dominated that entire
[00:44:30] summer and it's just so funny to picture
[00:44:32] like one guy in the theater
[00:44:34] for Sorcerer just having his like heart
[00:44:35] ripped out while next
[00:44:37] like in the theater next door
[00:44:39] there's like you know a huge crowd
[00:44:41] like a cheering audience where like you know
[00:44:43] they're doing the metal ceremony and all that
[00:44:45] like it's just
[00:44:46] and so yeah Jaws 2 feels
[00:44:48] it sort of feels like a mixture
[00:44:50] like it's a weird mishmash of a lot of different things
[00:44:52] Jaws 2 and it is a more interesting movie
[00:44:55] than I had given it credit for in the past
[00:44:57] and definitely I you know even though I haven't
[00:44:58] rewatched them I think still more interesting than
[00:45:00] the other sequels 3 and 4
[00:45:03] how do you think this fits into the Shider roles
[00:45:05] that we've seen so far Mike?
[00:45:06] Rolling straight out of Sorcerer into this
[00:45:08] you feel that darkness
[00:45:10] I think weirdly Sorcerer
[00:45:12] is the biggest comparison point
[00:45:14] for like that performance right?
[00:45:15] 100% yeah he comes out
[00:45:17] he survives the jungle and comes back to Amity
[00:45:19] and is just as traumatized
[00:45:22] you know as he would have been
[00:45:24] if he hadn't been in Jaws 1
[00:45:26] right like you can kind of feel that through line
[00:45:28] I think to point out Nick's
[00:45:30] observation of the drunk acting
[00:45:32] will go all the way back to Curse of the Living Corpse
[00:45:34] where he turns out to be drunk acting
[00:45:36] drunk acting
[00:45:38] like his character is faking being drunk
[00:45:40] also
[00:45:41] so that's a whole fun thing
[00:45:43] and yeah I mean I sort of like the same thing with Jaws
[00:45:45] where all those dark
[00:45:47] maybe not corrupt but
[00:45:49] gritty city cop roles feeding into
[00:45:52] this guy just trying to get away from that life
[00:45:54] and live his life on the island
[00:45:55] you know like we said with the first one
[00:45:58] so yeah those are my
[00:46:00] touchstones. No that's great
[00:46:01] Nick I mean you haven't been
[00:46:03] with us for this entire Bray Shider journey
[00:46:06] but do you have any Bray Shider roles that you feel
[00:46:08] like fit into the Jaws 2 mold
[00:46:09] do you have any like comparison points to make
[00:46:11] I think the Sorcerer 1 is very
[00:46:14] apt
[00:46:14] cause he's clearly a tortured person
[00:46:18] I'd like to imagine
[00:46:19] he started off as the druggy in
[00:46:21] Clute and then became a cop
[00:46:23] in French connection then got hit
[00:46:25] and then was like I'm moving to the island
[00:46:27] then like you said he goes away
[00:46:29] and then once he almost dies in Sorcerer
[00:46:31] he's like I'm gonna write musical theater
[00:46:32] and then he you know all that jazz
[00:46:36] Yeah there's a through line here is what you're saying
[00:46:38] these all take place in the same universe he's the same character
[00:46:41] If I say it
[00:46:42] maybe someone will believe it
[00:46:43] I think it's right I think it's good
[00:46:47] Any other scenes
[00:46:48] or moments in Jaws 2 that stand out to you guys
[00:46:50] anything that you guys want to give a shout out to
[00:46:52] any random scenes I will say the
[00:46:54] scene I mean I think the stand out scene
[00:46:56] of the movie to me is Bray Shider
[00:46:58] overlooking the beach you know with the binoculars
[00:47:01] the mayor is like trying to show the real
[00:47:02] like the realtor like the whole condo people
[00:47:04] are looking around and they're like oh where's
[00:47:07] Chief Brody he was supposed to meet us and they like
[00:47:08] points up there and is like Jesus Christ
[00:47:12] he's up there like
[00:47:13] surveying the water and then he like
[00:47:14] sees a shadow in the water
[00:47:16] yells you know shark everybody come in
[00:47:18] come into the beach everybody runs in
[00:47:20] and he's shooting his gun into the water and it's just
[00:47:22] like a school of bluefish and it's just
[00:47:24] like this really like heart wrenching like
[00:47:26] tough scene to watch for Sheriff Brody
[00:47:29] to see him in that position
[00:47:30] but yeah I think it's I really love
[00:47:33] that scene but yeah any other scenes
[00:47:34] of this movie that you guys want to give a shout out to
[00:47:36] any attention to I meant to go back and look
[00:47:39] in the first movie because I feel like
[00:47:41] the guy that yells its bluefish
[00:47:43] that is either the same life
[00:47:45] guard or the guy with the dog
[00:47:47] pip it or whatever I feel like it's
[00:47:49] the same it's that actor and I was like
[00:47:50] what a weird because I'm already now
[00:47:52] like I think this is where you find out
[00:47:55] lady on the city council who I forget
[00:47:57] shows up
[00:47:58] Mrs. Taft the woman with the
[00:48:00] big hair and glasses
[00:48:03] so then I was immediately
[00:48:04] keyed into like well well she's back who else
[00:48:06] is back and that guy is like it's just
[00:48:08] a school of bluefish and I was like I think that's
[00:48:10] that same dude where's the guy who says tiger
[00:48:12] shark what
[00:48:14] stuff you had in there tell me about the bite radius
[00:48:16] that scene is great I think that's like
[00:48:18] and it's really the key
[00:48:20] linchpin I think emotionally and where
[00:48:22] Brody realizes how off the off his
[00:48:24] rocker he's become and yeah that's
[00:48:27] that scene with Sean picking up the
[00:48:28] shells is just like devastating
[00:48:30] like yeah that's great one Nick you
[00:48:33] have any other scenes that you want to give a shout out to
[00:48:34] just his like right after he's been fired
[00:48:36] like his drunk speech to the deputy
[00:48:38] where he's just like well good luck
[00:48:40] yeah making a difference in any of this
[00:48:42] I think again that's great
[00:48:44] whether it's real drunk acting or just
[00:48:46] you know him being drunk he does
[00:48:48] a fantastic job with it
[00:48:50] and then there's a scene
[00:48:52] with the kids later on
[00:48:54] where there's
[00:48:56] one of Michael's friends is like protecting
[00:48:58] Sean and then gets knocked out of
[00:49:00] the boat and then it's a scene
[00:49:02] that kind of mirrors when
[00:49:04] that guy in the rowboat goes over to
[00:49:06] like Michael's boat in the pond in the
[00:49:08] first jaws every time they show the
[00:49:10] shark move slowly it is
[00:49:12] a million times scarier because
[00:49:14] you're just like it's impending like you can't
[00:49:17] do anything about it the teenager
[00:49:18] who's trying to protect Sean just
[00:49:20] gets slowly pulled away from him
[00:49:23] and as much as some
[00:49:24] of the teenage actors are not really great
[00:49:26] the kid playing Sean does a great job
[00:49:28] selling how horrifying
[00:49:30] that is and then when they're trying
[00:49:32] to bring him like closer
[00:49:34] to all their other boats and they're trying to throw him the
[00:49:36] rope and he's like I'm not moving my hands
[00:49:38] within five feet of any of the
[00:49:40] water because I'm going to die there's
[00:49:42] a lot of bad child acting there's
[00:49:44] some pretty bad teenage acting in this movie
[00:49:46] so the fact that the kid is able to
[00:49:48] sell this very like harrowing scene
[00:49:50] is I find
[00:49:52] it very effective and
[00:49:54] having seen it as a child that scared the shit out of me
[00:49:56] so. Fair enough yeah I think
[00:49:58] going back to the drunk acting
[00:50:00] scene I liked that you know Lieutenant
[00:50:02] Kramer is like one of the only like
[00:50:04] really big people from the first movie that returns
[00:50:06] right and he's not even like a major character in
[00:50:08] the first one but he's just like somebody you recognize
[00:50:10] and he really doesn't want
[00:50:12] Brody's job like he's really upset
[00:50:14] about Brody being fired like he's
[00:50:16] he's the one who got promoted to the new job
[00:50:18] he's the new chief but he doesn't want
[00:50:20] the job he wants like he
[00:50:22] almost like quits in solidarity with Brody
[00:50:23] and Brody's the one who kind of like talks him down
[00:50:26] like no no you gotta take it all that kind of stuff
[00:50:28] I you also don't find out if Brody gets
[00:50:30] his job back at the end of the movie the movie ends
[00:50:32] right it's got like a
[00:50:33] throwback to the Michelle Yoh season it's sort of got
[00:50:36] like a Hong Kong action movie ending where it's like bad
[00:50:38] guys dead roll credits like there's no
[00:50:40] like there's no epilogue
[00:50:41] no Danny Maw and anything which also how Jaws ends
[00:50:44] right yeah sure yeah but he
[00:50:46] stole a police boat
[00:50:48] drove it to a lighthouse
[00:50:49] destroyed the one power line
[00:50:52] that brings everything over to Amity
[00:50:54] so
[00:50:55] after two days earlier shooting into a beach
[00:50:58] I'm surprised he's not in prison
[00:50:59] but he saved the kids some of them
[00:51:02] saved some of the kids
[00:51:04] lost the helicopter in the process which is
[00:51:05] actually I think a great scene when the helicopter gets
[00:51:07] attacked by the shark I hate that guy's
[00:51:09] Amish beard though what does he go
[00:51:11] yeah he's got some ear going on 70s wild
[00:51:13] yeah and you do see the shark a lot
[00:51:15] more in this movie than you do in the first one
[00:51:17] and that I think when they were making it
[00:51:19] they were like yeah we're like part of the
[00:51:21] reason the first one worked I mean you know
[00:51:23] this was sort of unintentional because they the
[00:51:25] shark didn't work and then they had to
[00:51:26] kind of work around that like part of the
[00:51:29] reason the first one works is that you didn't
[00:51:30] see the shark that often it was that element
[00:51:31] of surprise that mystery thing and they knew
[00:51:34] going into this one we've lost that like
[00:51:36] we're not gonna have that again so
[00:51:38] we might as well have the shark appear
[00:51:40] a lot and add
[00:51:42] super speed I guess and super strength
[00:51:44] and this is one moment where the shark
[00:51:46] like slams into the boat really hard that I
[00:51:48] was like oh shit it's cool
[00:51:50] I don't know I'm into this it's a super shark
[00:51:52] it is it is sort of a super shark yeah
[00:51:54] and then yeah the movie ends with like
[00:51:56] like Roy Shider with the power line like
[00:51:57] electrocuting the shark and that's how they defeat it
[00:52:00] that's a fun enough like again a
[00:52:02] lot of the shark stuff feels like a retry to the first movie
[00:52:04] but that's a fun enough difference from how they beat
[00:52:06] the shark in the first one where I was like
[00:52:08] alright I'm down for that I can get behind that
[00:52:10] that was the scene where where I was like
[00:52:12] man this feels the most
[00:52:14] like he doesn't want to be here
[00:52:16] or whatever because it is just the same thing
[00:52:18] and there's no line
[00:52:20] that'll be as cool as in the first
[00:52:22] one where he says smile he's out of a bitch right
[00:52:24] and she's right tank and in this one
[00:52:26] he's like open wide come on
[00:52:28] oh open wide you're like this is
[00:52:30] just falling so flat as he's just standing
[00:52:32] there holding the power line
[00:52:33] wait like
[00:52:34] I should have said like get ready for a shock or something
[00:52:37] so yeah I needed a James Bond level
[00:52:39] one liner
[00:52:41] something like that I thought Christmas came
[00:52:43] once a year or whatever and then
[00:52:45] he just gets it when the shark does bite
[00:52:47] the line and explodes it's like a pretty cool effect
[00:52:49] like it looks pretty rad
[00:52:51] the one downside of that is that the first
[00:52:53] draw is they do a very good job if you never see
[00:52:55] like land once they get on the water
[00:52:57] and I think the clear
[00:53:00] fact that
[00:53:01] like number one it's like shot in Florida
[00:53:03] so you kind of lose that like
[00:53:04] New England charm a little bit
[00:53:06] but like when they're near
[00:53:09] that cable junction it nothing has ever
[00:53:11] looked more like foam rocks
[00:53:13] floating in like the universal
[00:53:15] soundstage so like yeah
[00:53:17] when like 90 pound soaking
[00:53:19] wet Roy Scheider is
[00:53:21] shaking this line you're just like this
[00:53:23] looks a little bit janky for like
[00:53:25] the sequel to the biggest movie of all time
[00:53:27] but again it's hard to top
[00:53:28] the greatest movie ever made
[00:53:30] yeah and in fact it did not
[00:53:34] you know I think when they were making it
[00:53:36] it really felt like okay Jaws 2 this is going to be huge
[00:53:38] just be as big as the first one and yeah
[00:53:40] it was still a huge financial success
[00:53:42] it grossed a lot of money
[00:53:44] it was the seventh highest gross movie of the year
[00:53:46] but it did not have the same cultural impact
[00:53:48] that Jaws had and I think
[00:53:50] it's so wild that it opened the same day as Grease
[00:53:53] which is a movie that I don't think
[00:53:54] people are expecting to be as big as Jaws
[00:53:57] yeah Grease ended up being the number one movie of the year
[00:53:58] and it like overtook Jaws 2 as the number one
[00:54:01] movie in America after a week
[00:54:02] it's kind of wild I don't know
[00:54:04] it's very funny to me to see it was
[00:54:06] Grease summer in 1978 it was just
[00:54:08] it was a bigger movie than I thought it was I guess is what I'm saying
[00:54:10] well I think that's where we see the switch from
[00:54:13] like 70s you
[00:54:15] want monster movies you want gritty
[00:54:16] like whatever and then
[00:54:18] the 80s is more like we want 50s
[00:54:20] nostalgia so like you have Grease
[00:54:22] and that kind of ushers in that
[00:54:24] and also the second half of Jaws 2
[00:54:26] turns into a slasher
[00:54:28] so like it's kind of like both of those movies
[00:54:30] are giving you an indication of like well
[00:54:32] here's the next 10 years good luck
[00:54:34] speaking of movies that we sort of
[00:54:36] didn't know about that dethroned
[00:54:38] the movie we were talking about
[00:54:39] even though that's not exactly what we talked about with Sorcerer
[00:54:42] but that movie The Deep that overtook
[00:54:44] Star Wars for three weeks
[00:54:45] I watched the first half of it
[00:54:48] and then I was like midnight and I was sort of
[00:54:50] falling asleep and it's kind of a talky 70s movie
[00:54:52] and I was like I'm gonna come back to this and I haven't come back to it yet
[00:54:55] it's wild
[00:54:56] it is the weirdest movie of all time so this is the plot
[00:54:59] Is that the other Robert Shaw
[00:55:00] but that's Ealds or something
[00:55:02] yeah yeah
[00:55:04] it's Nick Nolte and I forget the actress
[00:55:07] who's in it
[00:55:08] they are it is
[00:55:10] Jacqueline Bissette
[00:55:12] are on vacation and they're like
[00:55:13] amateur treasure hunter scooby diver people
[00:55:16] and they come across this wreck so they go check it out
[00:55:18] and they come back they find like an ampule
[00:55:20] with this like brown liquid in it
[00:55:22] and they're like asking the guy
[00:55:24] when they get to the beach and they're like oh here's
[00:55:26] the cool stuff we found
[00:55:27] and he's like don't let anybody see this
[00:55:30] and it turns into a whole thing and Robert Shaw is like
[00:55:32] the professional
[00:55:33] he's got a wing at the museum I think they're in the Bahamas
[00:55:36] or Bramuda at the
[00:55:37] library is named after him because of all the
[00:55:39] wrecks he's found and he's the treasure hunting expert guy
[00:55:42] and he tells them
[00:55:43] he hooks them up with Eli Wallach who's an old man
[00:55:46] who was shipwrecked
[00:55:48] in World War II on the island
[00:55:51] and just has stayed there ever since
[00:55:54] that's crazy
[00:55:55] he was on this boat that was carrying
[00:55:57] medical supplies
[00:55:58] across the Atlantic got sunk
[00:56:00] or crashed in a storm I think
[00:56:02] that was full of medical supplies and those ampules
[00:56:05] are morphine
[00:56:06] that never made it obviously they're all
[00:56:09] on the ship and there's like a hundred thousand
[00:56:10] of them that went down on the ship
[00:56:12] and there's been drug runners have been looking
[00:56:14] for this wreck this whole time and they get wrapped
[00:56:16] up in this big drug kingpin conspiracy
[00:56:19] thing because they found ampules
[00:56:21] of morphine and that's as far
[00:56:23] as I made it and I was like I gotta go
[00:56:24] sleep it's midnight
[00:56:26] that didn't wake you up immediately
[00:56:27] it's the while it makes no sense
[00:56:30] that somehow it's not as exciting an action
[00:56:32] filled as it sounds because it's about
[00:56:34] ampules of morphine
[00:56:36] you know it's about
[00:56:38] I've never seen is it Moonraker
[00:56:40] is that the one that has the big underwater fight
[00:56:42] that we talked about it?
[00:56:43] Thunderball it's got a lot of that it's just
[00:56:45] a lot of like long slow scuba diving
[00:56:47] scenes because like isn't it exciting
[00:56:49] that we're scuba diving but nobody
[00:56:51] can talk in a scuba so it's just
[00:56:53] really
[00:56:55] long sequences of them diving and stuff
[00:56:57] I've seen the Navi I don't need to see this
[00:57:00] exactly give me
[00:57:01] a sign language version or something
[00:57:03] you know so that's the that's an hour
[00:57:05] of the two hours of the deep is what I'm saying
[00:57:07] okay I hope you go back and watch the back half
[00:57:09] and let me know if it gets better I don't know
[00:57:11] I kind of forgot about it but now I might watch it tonight
[00:57:13] depending on time we're talking
[00:57:14] alright any other thoughts about Jaws 2 guys
[00:57:16] before we start wrapping this up before we move on to letterbox reviews
[00:57:18] I should say Mike D, Nick any other scenes
[00:57:20] or anything that you want to mention in this movie?
[00:57:22] Not that I could think of it's fine it's okay
[00:57:25] I wish I liked it more but I don't
[00:57:26] hate it it wasn't like totally worthless you know
[00:57:28] it's interesting and I think it is
[00:57:31] fascinating and sort of a actual
[00:57:32] real continuation of the story of Jaws
[00:57:35] rather than just like
[00:57:37] New Shark and not really anything else
[00:57:39] I think there is more stuff going on you know
[00:57:40] Yeah absolutely definitely much more so than
[00:57:42] 3 and 4 for sure
[00:57:44] Nick any last thoughts about Jaws 2
[00:57:47] again I mean you are an ardent defender
[00:57:48] of this movie or a huge fan
[00:57:50] anything else you want to say?
[00:57:52] Just if people haven't seen it in 20 years
[00:57:55] give it a chance if you're looking
[00:57:56] for something to scratch that Jaws itch
[00:57:58] that's not Jaws because
[00:58:00] you've already seen it too many times
[00:58:02] like at this there was one time at work
[00:58:04] like by the internet went down
[00:58:06] and I just started writing the Jaws script
[00:58:08] from memory at a certain point so I was like
[00:58:10] I just need to do something to kill time
[00:58:12] so like if you want something
[00:58:14] that is in a similar vein obviously
[00:58:16] it's still got the shark it's got most of the same
[00:58:18] people it scratches that itch
[00:58:20] is it as good as Jaws? Absolutely
[00:58:22] not is it better than
[00:58:24] most cash grab sequels?
[00:58:26] Yeah it's a
[00:58:28] Shark Slasher movie Jaws is the greatest
[00:58:30] Shark movie then there's like the
[00:58:32] Shallows and then there's like
[00:58:34] a long gap
[00:58:36] and then maybe Jaws too?
[00:58:38] I don't know what else goes in the
[00:58:40] shark ranking not to completely go
[00:58:42] into something different but the other Jaws
[00:58:44] sequels are nowhere near it. Not fan of
[00:58:46] Meg 2 the trench?
[00:58:47] No.
[00:58:50] Watch there's a really interesting
[00:58:52] documentary on Shutter called just
[00:58:54] Shark Sploitation
[00:58:55] and it's just about that whole sub-genre
[00:58:58] and how that Jaws
[00:59:00] spawned all of those and it's pretty fascinating.
[00:59:02] Alright so let's get into some letterbox reviews
[00:59:04] see what the people have to say about Jaws 2
[00:59:06] I got one here which is a 4.5 star
[00:59:08] review from Tony the Terror
[00:59:10] really one of the best horror sequels out there
[00:59:12] nothing could ever top the first movie
[00:59:14] and a good sequel knows its place
[00:59:16] this one does just about everything right
[00:59:18] it brings about the characters we love from the first movie
[00:59:20] and cranks up the kill count and shark action
[00:59:22] and this shark is a total bitch
[00:59:23] just popping out of nowhere
[00:59:26] ramming boats together just pulling every
[00:59:28] asshole shark movie it can think of and I love it
[00:59:30] I remember loving this as a kid and it still holds up now
[00:59:32] the Jaws series was one that I was able to
[00:59:34] watch openly at a young age because it wasn't rated R
[00:59:37] so it may be one of my most watched series
[00:59:39] and I love this one about as much
[00:59:41] as the first one if I'm honest
[00:59:42] although of course I'd recognize the first say
[00:59:44] technically superior film
[00:59:45] I had forgotten just how much the actor who plays
[00:59:48] Mike Brody resembles a young Dennis
[00:59:50] Quaid who plays the same character
[00:59:52] in part 3 almost like they already
[00:59:54] knew that was going to happen
[00:59:56] Hollywood black magic
[00:59:58] yeah sure I guess
[00:59:59] good for that guy
[01:00:01] yeah he really loves Jaws 2
[01:00:03] I got another review here with no rating from Branson Rees
[01:00:06] I'd always heard that this sucks
[01:00:07] I wouldn't say it
[01:00:09] I wouldn't say it blows chunks
[01:00:11] so much as I'd say that for it to totally work
[01:00:13] you ideally need to have already seen Jaws
[01:00:16] while simultaneously
[01:00:17] not remembering anything about it
[01:00:20] a tall order
[01:00:22] still huge laugh
[01:00:23] when the woman's boat blew up
[01:00:25] insane first act escalation
[01:00:27] more movies should misstep like that
[01:00:29] he's not wrong
[01:00:30] yeah no definitely
[01:00:32] here's a 3 star review from Richard
[01:00:34] Jaws 2 was always going to struggle to lay up to the suspense
[01:00:37] and terror of Jaws
[01:00:38] or the brilliance of its own tagline
[01:00:40] just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water
[01:00:42] but all that baggage aside
[01:00:44] it is a reasonably effective if unnecessary
[01:00:47] Shark B movie
[01:00:48] much of the film's success such as it is
[01:00:50] is down to Roy Scheider
[01:00:52] who provides much needed continuity with the original
[01:00:54] his performance as the traumatized
[01:00:56] paranoid chief Brodie is the heart of the film
[01:00:58] the main problem
[01:00:59] is that Jean-Aus Schwarz is no Steven Spielberg
[01:01:02] in fact it almost feels like
[01:01:04] Jaws 2 exists to demonstrate Spielberg's brilliance
[01:01:06] there is none of the visual
[01:01:08] flair, careful pacing or character
[01:01:10] chief Brodie aside that made Jaws
[01:01:12] such a classic
[01:01:12] the final act with a bunch of kids adrift at sea
[01:01:15] is easily the highlight and Jean-Aus Schwarz
[01:01:17] is a pretty good job with the jump scares
[01:01:19] and sudden sharkings the finish is great too
[01:01:21] Jaws 2 does little to convince
[01:01:23] that a true follow up to Jaws is either possible
[01:01:25] or necessary but it sort of works as a
[01:01:27] sea based slasher movie
[01:01:28] it's just a shame that it has more of a playful nibble
[01:01:31] than a crushing bite
[01:01:33] wow, very good line
[01:01:35] it's pretty good here's another review
[01:01:37] from Mark Connliffe that's a two star review
[01:01:40] Chekhov's power cable
[01:01:42] a strange movie
[01:01:43] it's basically 90 minutes of watching Roy
[01:01:45] Scheider having a breakdown because the whole town
[01:01:47] has somehow forgotten the first film
[01:01:49] followed by a half hour of horny
[01:01:51] loud and annoying kids in peril
[01:01:52] and I know the shark is supposed to be scary
[01:01:55] but I lived in more fear at the prospect
[01:01:57] of a Scheider Bollack popping out of those cutoff shorts
[01:01:59] if only we would be so lucky
[01:02:02] exactly
[01:02:03] I got one last review here guys
[01:02:05] it's a three star review from Paul Thomas
[01:02:07] maybe Paul Thomas Anderson, we don't know
[01:02:09] could just be a guy named Paul Thomas
[01:02:11] Jaws 2 probably does the best
[01:02:13] it can do for being a sequel that shouldn't have been made
[01:02:15] which isn't really the same as saying it's particularly good
[01:02:18] it seems to be in this middle ground
[01:02:19] of not being sure which direction to go
[01:02:21] it's not as good as the first
[01:02:22] but it isn't disrespectful to the first either
[01:02:25] it's almost too respectful
[01:02:26] trying to pay service to a plot that benefits from it
[01:02:28] really only happening once
[01:02:30] trying to seriously and respectfully say that it's all happening again
[01:02:33] just seems strange and it makes the movie
[01:02:35] just a carbon copy
[01:02:36] I would have said that it should have embraced the insanity
[01:02:38] and gone with it, but that's what 3 and 4 do
[01:02:41] when we saw how they turned out
[01:02:43] the last 30 minutes of this is pretty good
[01:02:45] and some of the kills are well done
[01:02:46] including one where the shark slams a guy
[01:02:48] straight into a boat
[01:02:49] unfortunately or ultimately not terrible for a sequel
[01:02:52] that should have been terrible
[01:02:53] I do like the disparity between people who are like
[01:02:56] well obviously the Brody parts are the best
[01:02:58] and the other people who are like well the kids
[01:03:00] that's the best part of the movie
[01:03:02] where do you fall listener?
[01:03:03] vote on Mike and Mike Pods at
[01:03:07] what's your handle
[01:03:09] now you got it
[01:03:10] at mikeandmikepod.tware
[01:03:12] at Complete Works Pod
[01:03:13] WRKS, no I don't know how the word works
[01:03:15] are you team Mike D who prefers the shark stuff
[01:03:17] or are you team Mike Smith who prefers the Brody stuff
[01:03:20] or are you team Nick who just thinks Jaws 2 is a good time
[01:03:25] who thinks it's a raffin' adventure
[01:03:26] who thinks it's a raffin' adventure
[01:03:26] who thinks it's a raffin' adventure
[01:03:29] that's going to bring us to the end of our Jaws 2 episode
[01:03:31] Nick Wormith, thank you so much for joining us
[01:03:33] on the podcast this week
[01:03:34] happy to be here, happy to support Jaws 2
[01:03:39] if we ever do a Dennis Quaid season
[01:03:41] we'll have you back on for Jaws 3
[01:03:42] I don't think that one's in the near future
[01:03:45] yeah Nick where are we going to find you online this week
[01:03:47] people want to follow you
[01:03:47] you can find me at Wormith
[01:03:49] at Letterbox
[01:03:51] I'm still at Downey Plus Ultra
[01:03:52] on Twitter, I will not call it X
[01:03:55] I do not have the app installed
[01:03:58] but I still go on it
[01:03:59] on the browser
[01:04:00] for 4-5 hours a day
[01:04:02] so I simply cannot curve that out of it
[01:04:06] and that is fair
[01:04:07] yeah Mike D where can we find you online this week
[01:04:09] you can find me at
[01:04:10] mdfilmblog on Twitter
[01:04:12] and Letterbox at Blue Sky
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[01:04:37] thank you so much for listening to Complete Works
[01:04:38] I'm Mike Smith, it's my decrease show and that is Nick Wormith
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[01:04:48] no O in the word works
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[01:05:04] next week Roy Schatter stars in the movie
[01:05:07] I've never seen and I'm pretty excited to check out
[01:05:09] Jonathan Demmey's Last Embrace
[01:05:12] from 1979
[01:05:14] which I know just got a
[01:05:15] like a new restoration it's coming
[01:05:17] a blue ray again soon
[01:05:18] yeah hot off the presses, a lot of buzz on Last Embrace
[01:05:21] lately yes yes I'm excited
[01:05:23] to finally watch that one of the Schatter
[01:05:25] like 70s run I had seen
[01:05:27] most of them but I've not seen this I'm excited to do that
[01:05:29] Nick have you ever seen Last Embrace?
[01:05:30] It was the first time hearing of it
[01:05:33] okay it's Jonathan Demmey joint I'm excited to check it out
[01:05:35] Nick do you have other favorite Roy Schatter movies
[01:05:38] that you want to give a shout out to
[01:05:39] stuff that we've covered or stuff that's coming up
[01:05:40] definitely Sorcerer I am
[01:05:43] a 2010
[01:05:45] the year we made contact is that the subtitle
[01:05:47] yeah I
[01:05:49] there are dozens of us dozens
[01:05:51] I think it's interesting that one suffers
[01:05:53] the same thing as Charles too where you're like
[01:05:54] oh there's interesting things happening
[01:05:56] but it's a sequel to 2001
[01:05:58] a space Odyssey like it's not going to work
[01:06:02] and all that jazz just because he's
[01:06:05] no one smokes a cigarette better than
[01:06:07] Roy Schatter
[01:06:08] that's true yeah we'll be getting to that one
[01:06:10] I think in the next two weeks after Last Embrace
[01:06:12] I think it's all that jazz so I'm excited to
[01:06:14] revisit that one and Mike he's never seen it so looking
[01:06:16] forward to that too yeah and I've never seen
[01:06:18] 2010 either so I'm excited to get to that
[01:06:20] eventually nice yeah I have seen
[01:06:22] 2010 it's been a while but I
[01:06:24] just rewatched 2001 so I'm ready
[01:06:26] I'm ready to go for 2010
[01:06:28] alright yeah Last Embrace next week and
[01:06:30] remember to check out our other podcast Mike might go to the movies
[01:06:32] for all kinds of other movie related stuff including
[01:06:34] recent releases, ranks lists, general
[01:06:36] discussions and a lot more thanks so much
[01:06:38] listening guys and why don't you come down here
[01:06:40] and chump some of this shit
[01:06:44] you brought it back I gotta have to bring it back
[01:06:46] it's just two it is just two