Ep. 14 - The Ice Storm (1997)

[00:00:00] All right, then keep your secrets. Get that frog out of your pants. I'm the guy, the real guy. Where do all these movies come from anyway? Just fucking ding-a-ling. I will take the ring to Moldor, though I do not know the way.

[00:00:24] Hello and welcome to episode 14 of The Complete Works season 5, a deep dive into the career and films of actor Elijah Wood. My name is Mike Smith and joining me on this journey there and back again is my friend, co-host and fellow good son. Mike DiCruccio. How'd you do today, Mike? I'm doing great. I'm excited for today's episode, like always. I'm happy to talk about Elijah Wood all the time. What a guy.

[00:00:49] What a guy. Yes, definitely. And I feel like this movie in particular feels like a real like transitional point in the career of Elijah Wood. Do you think that's fair to say, Mike? Sure. Yeah, I think this is certainly the turning point, you know, it's after that. I mean, I guess I don't know exactly the timeline, how many more movies there are between this and Lord of the Rings, but it's like not many.

[00:01:10] Sure. Yeah. I mean, this is 97 and Lord of the Rings 2001. So I like he's about to go off to shoot Lord of the Rings because that starts happening in the late 90s. Right. Like that takes a couple of years to write happen. Right.

[00:01:22] Yeah. No, but this feels I think what I'm more saying is that in terms of like Elijah Wood being a child actor now taking on like more adult films, like adult films in film, you know, and I feel like that is a rite of passage that every child actor who wants to have a longer career ultimately ends up going through where, you know, you kind of want to be taken more seriously.

[00:01:40] Like as an adult, you want to do something with a little more adult situations in it, all that kind of stuff. And I think some actors are drawn to like the raunchiest material they can find to like prove that they are, you know, they're adults now or whatever. And others, you know, are drawn to more stuff like this, which is a little bit more subtle than that kind of stuff. But yeah, we'll kind of get into all that. But first, we got to go back and talk about somebody we've talked about before, Mike, and that is Ang Lee. Returning friend of the show, Ang Lee.

[00:02:09] Yes, Ang Lee, who's joining us on the podcast, right? Imagine. That would be pretty wild if a two-time Academy Award winner Ang Lee was joining us on the podcast. He is not. But we have talked about him once before. And that is, of course, from the Michelle Yeoh season when we talked about Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, a movie that we both really like. Right, Mike? Yeah. Foundational text in the Michelle Yeoh in America, international films in America really broke out with that movie recently, at least.

[00:02:39] Ten pole film. Yeah, absolutely. Crouching Tiger rocks. And of course, Ang Lee is a filmmaker who began his career in Taiwan in the mid-90s and then made the transition to mostly American films, gaining a ton of acclaim for films like Crouching Tiger and for Brokeback Mountain and for Life of Pi, while also working to push the medium of film forward by experimenting with different visual storytelling or new technology, like in 2003's Hulk, which was not really well acclaimed at the time.

[00:03:07] And I think a lot of people would still say that movie is bad. However, is one of the more like visually interesting comic book movies ever made, which is, I think, a fair thing to say about it. Right? Yeah. I mean, I definitely saw it at the time, but I don't know. I saw it for my 10th birthday in 2003. Hell yeah. Isn't it like very like comic book panel-y and stuff? There's lots of like transitions and stuff that are the panels and things. Yes. Yeah. It's like a literal comic adaptation, like, you know, to screen, which was sort of mocked at the time.

[00:03:35] And I think in the time since, after like 20 years of, you know, Marvel movies and DC movies and movies of varying degrees of quality and a much more like generic house style for a lot of these films, having something that's as idiosyncratic as Hulk is kind of look back on now is like we used to make movies. We used to let Ang Lee make a $200 million Hulk movie, you know? Yeah. Like that's something we used to do. Uh, and I saw it for my 10th birthday.

[00:03:58] And at one point somebody threw a green Jolly Rancher on the screen. Uh, and for a lot of the movie, it looked like the Hulk had a booger hanging out at his house. That's awesome. That's my main memory of 2003 is Hulk. It's one I really should go back and rewatch. I do want to give that movie another shot at some point. I did like it when I was 10. Yeah. Release the booger cut. If I ever watch Hulk again, and I'm sure I will at some point, I'm going to throw a green Jolly Rancher at my TV so that there's a, for consistency sake, you know? Uh, so Hulk is one of those movies that, uh, kind of really experimented with different visual storytelling.

[00:04:28] Uh, also Gemini Man, another movie that, uh, he made that, uh, employed the, uh, 60 frames per second, a high frame rate technology. Uh, Gemini Man I saw in theaters and that movie is not very good, unfortunately. Uh, but it's, that is not to say Ang Lee has made a lot of great movies. Uh, and today we are talking about his second English language film, one he made a couple of years before Crouching Tiger came out and one which similarly garnered a lot of acclaim upon release. Uh, it premiered at the Cannes Film Festival where it won Best Screenplay.

[00:04:57] Uh, it got nominations and a couple of wins across several awards bodies, although not the Oscars. Uh, and it was well-received by critics when it was released. It was Gene Siskel's favorite film of the year in 1997. Wow. Yeah. Impressive. Absolutely. So, uh, James Seamus, uh, who had collaborated with Ang Lee many times already. He is a credited writer or producer on basically every single one of his previous films.

[00:05:20] Uh, he, uh, has a wife named Nancy Krikorian, uh, who is an author, uh, who at the time was working as a literary scout. And she knew a fellow author named Rick Moody, who had written a book that was released in 1994 called The Ice Storm. So she brought that book to her film producer husband Seamus, and he saw the cinematic potential behind it. So he brought it to his partner, Ang Lee. Uh, Lee was particularly affected by the climax of the book and, uh, agreed that he could see a film version of this.

[00:05:48] And, uh, things started to come together for today's film, including casting a large ensemble that brought a few actors previously best known for kids films into a more adult work. And since Elijah Wood is in it, we've got to talk about The Ice Storm. Next stop will be New Canaan, Connecticut. New Canaan, Connecticut. Next stop. Once there was a time when families were strangers. Paul? Hey, Dad. Guy? I'm just confirming, uh, you'll be on the 440 on Wednesday, right?

[00:06:18] So you and your sister can mope around the house, and your mother and I can wait on you hand and foot, while the two of you occasionally grunt for more food. Neighbors were lovers. You know, I think Elena might suspect something. Is that a new aftershave? Uh, yeah. Uh, musk or something. Why are you on the practice? And America was learning the truth. Are you watching this? Watching what? Nixon doofus. He's a liar. Calm down. I wasn't in on it.

[00:06:45] It was 1973, and the climate was changing. You can't apply? It's strictly volunteer, of course. A key party? The men put their car keys in a bowl, and at the end of the evening, the women line up and fish them out. How are the parental units functioning these days? Dad's doing his up-with-people routine. Is that good or bad? It's just you develop a sense if things are gonna work out or if they won't. I have a husband. I don't particularly feel the need for another.

[00:07:14] Sometimes it's not worth the mess. From acclaimed director Ang Lee comes a portrait of an American family. Dear Lord, thank you for this Thanksgiving holiday. And for letting us stuff ourselves like pigs, even though children age at RV napalm. Okay, it's enough. All right. Paul, roll. They were growing up. Wendy. A person's body is his temple. And they were falling apart.

[00:07:44] I don't ever want to see you. Then why'd you come after me? It's not what you think. It's not some big plot. Stop the car. Stop it. And during one winter weekend, they would discover something that would change their lives forever.

[00:08:11] Kevin Kline, Joan Allen, Tobey Maguire, Christina Ricci, Elijah Wood, and Sigourney Neer. The Ice Storm. All right. So the Ice Storm features Elijah Wood as Mikey Carver, a teenage boy and the older brother of Sandy Carver, played by Adam Hahn Bird, who played young Robin Williams in Jumanji. Who could forget? Yeah, absolutely. The entire time I was like, I know this kid from somewhere. I've seen this kid a million times and I couldn't place it.

[00:08:41] And it's because he's in the opening like 10 minutes of Jumanji as young Robin Williams. Their father, Jim Carver, is played by Jamie Sheridan from Law and Order Criminal Intent. He was also Oliver Queen's dad on Arrow. And their mother, Janie Carver, is played by Sigourney Weaver. Now, the Carver family is intertwined in various ways with the Hood family in this film. They are neighbors and also there are extramarital affairs happening. And the kids are all sort of, you know, crushing on each other or having weird sexual encounters with each other.

[00:09:11] All that stuff. There's a lot going on. It's a lot happening. In the ice storm. But the father of the Hood family, Ben Hood, is played by Kevin Kline. The mother, Elena Hood, is played by Joan Allen, who is also John Travolta's wife in Face Off this same year. Whoa. Big year for Joan Allen. That's 97. The son, Paul Hood, is played by Tobey Maguire, who also narrates the film and spends most of the narration talking about the Fantastic Four, which feels odd. This is a couple of years before Spider-Man comes out, which also opens with Tobey Maguire narration.

[00:09:42] And so it's, you know, just a weird connective dots of like Marvel stuff and Tobey Maguire stuff. And also Ang Lee made Hulk a couple of years later. So yeah, there's connections happening there. Ang Lee, Marvel stan. Yeah, absolutely. And then there's the daughter, Wendy Hood, who is played by Christina Ricci. From there, Henry Cerny, Kittredge from Mission Impossible. When I saw his name, I was like, Kittredge. Yeah. He plays George Clare, who's a rival to Kevin Kline at work.

[00:10:07] David Krumholtz, who is best known at this point as Bernard in The Santa Claus. He plays Francis Davenport, Tobey Maguire's roommate. Kate Burton, Grey's Anatomy and Scandal, plays Dorothy Franklin. Allison Janney, I think a few years before she was well-known. This is a couple years before The West Wing. She plays Dot Halford, the woman hosting The Key Party. Larry Pine from a lot of Wes Anderson movies, as well as House of Cards and Succession. He plays Dave Gorman.

[00:10:32] And finally, in her film debut, the very first film role, Katie Holmes plays Libbets Casey, the girl Tobey Maguire is a crush on. Wow. I didn't realize it was her debut. Yeah. Not even just film debut. Her like full-on debut. Dawson's Creek is still like two years away, I think. Damn. So yeah, no. The very first role for Katie Holmes is in The Ice Storm. And it's a pretty substantial one. She's in a lot of the movie. Yeah. Uh, the movie was written by James Seamus and directed by Ang Lee two years after his

[00:11:01] English language debut, which was Sense and Sensibility in 1995. Uh, and two years before his next film, 1999's Ride with the Devil, a revisionist Western, uh, also featuring Tobey Maguire as well as Skeet Ulrich, Jeffrey Wright, and Jewel. I have not seen Ride with the Devil. Seems pretty good. Seems cool. Sounds cool. Uh, Ang Lee's most recent film was Gemini Man in 2019. Uh, but he actually just went into production on a new film in May. Uh, so just a few weeks ago, uh, production started on this new movie, a Western, which

[00:11:30] is titled Gold Mountain, about two Chinese-American immigrants towards the end of the California gold rush. Uh, so yeah, looking forward to seeing what that's like. Sure, I won't cry during that. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so The Ice Storm opened in limited release on September 27th, 1997, where it opened to 17th place at the box office. If you were seeing something else that weekend, you could have been seeing the movie that opened to number one. Do you want to take a guess at what it is, Mike? I mean, I'll give you a hint. I need, I need minimal information.

[00:12:01] Uh, it's got two major movie stars. Uh, and I think it's title, it's, it's a movie whose title we have brought up before in our last season of the podcast, the Roy Scheider season, because it's sort of a combination of two Roy Scheider movie titles. Oh God. And it was very much like not to be confused with this movie. Oh man. Um, what am I going to run through my mind palace?

[00:12:26] Um, Cohen and pickup, pick, pick up and tape, uh, curse of the living. Uh, no, I got that. What is it? Uh, the peacemaker Mimi leaders, the peacemaker, uh, starring George Clooney and Nicole Kidman. Uh, not to be confused with the peacekeeper or the rainmaker. Right. Both Roy Scheider movies that are also both from 1997. Uh, big year.

[00:12:52] And I mean, two Joan Allens, two, uh, two. Yeah. Peacemaker, peacekeeper and rainmaker all coming out at the same time. My God. Yes. Uh, opening to number three was a movie called soul food with Vanessa Williams and Vivica A. Fox and opening to number four was the edge with Anthony Hopkins and Alec Baldwin. Do you? I do not know that movie. I've never seen the edge. No. What is that? Is that going on the mic? Makes my watch list right now. You're going to watch Anthony Hopkins and Alec Baldwin fight a grizzly bear. Okay, cool. That sounds great.

[00:13:22] Uh, I, I have no familiarity with the edge, uh, other than his presence in the band. You too. Uh, it's the titular edge, actually. The titular edge. He's in the grizzly bear seat. Does he compose the score? Cause that'd be kind of sick, actually. That would rule. Uh, yeah, no. All right. We'll, we'll, we'll be talking about the edge, uh, sometime in 2027 on the podcast. Uh, but the rest of the top 10, uh, consisted of in and out David Fincher's, the game LA

[00:13:48] confidential wish master, the full Monty, a thousand acres and GI Jane. Uh, the IMD plot synopsis for the ice storm reads in 1973 suburbia, several middle-class families experimenting with substance abuse and the swinging lifestyle find their lives spinning beyond their control. Incredible. That sounds so dramatic. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, the ice storm, Mike, uh, a movie that I think signifies, uh, a step in a new direction for Elijah Wood's career, perhaps.

[00:14:17] What, what did you expect going into it? What'd you get coming out of it? Sure. Well, first I want to confirm the edge, uh, with, uh, uh, music composed by Jerry Goldsmith. So, you know, you know, it's a bad, I mean, yeah, he's very good. He's, I mean, he's no, the edge, but he's pretty good. Um, but, um, the ice storm. Yeah. I had actually seen this before, but way back when probably around ish, not necessarily very close to when it came out, but around ish when it came out on HBO or something.

[00:14:47] And I remember being like, so scandalized, not, not like offended or scandalized, but like, you know, if I saw it when it came out, I was eight. Like, you know, obviously. That's a good point. Yeah. You would be like watching it from the perspective of like the younger brother character. Probably even younger than him. Yeah. Younger than him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think I saw it then. I think I probably saw it in the two thousands, you know, the early aughts. Um, right.

[00:15:13] So, but still, uh, like thinking it was this kind of like sorted, like, I can't believe they make movies like this. I shouldn't be allowed to see this kind of thing. Cause it's all about swinging and sex and all this stuff. So that, but I hadn't seen it since then. So that was sort of the like only kind of like memory I had of it was like, you know, it's a real steamy movie. Um, and when you watch it, it's really not that at all. I'm like, all of the sex stuff is really sad. Which is hilarious.

[00:15:42] Um, but yeah, I don't know. I kind of, it felt weird. Like, you know, I sort of felt like I had seen this before. I mean, obviously literally I had, but I did, but I mean, um, like how did the, why, why did this take the world on fire? Set the world on fire like that? I don't know. I've seen the swimmer. Like that's a better different, more like Connecticut suburban malaise destroying families. Well, I feel familiar territory. Well, Trotten, I feel, I feel, um, now that's it. All the performance is really great. I think the ensemble is really fun.

[00:16:12] Uh, I think this with Kevin Kline paired with the big chill is like an interesting, like two ends of this, uh, spectrum. Right. Similar. I mean, that's, you know, this was set in the seventies. So like, obviously it's set before the events, like, you know, uh, before the big chill actually takes place. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So it's different, but I feel like same, same. Um, but it is interesting to set that sort of like thematic stuff going on between like

[00:16:38] the kind of the Watergate hearings, the sort of like disillusion with the, with the government and the country. And then they, they, the Christina Ricci is like very politically active character and is talking about, you know, like the children being napalmed in Vietnam, like always bringing up the war crimes and all this stuff contrasted against the sort of like destruction or whatever of the, uh, kind of stereotypical American nuclear family as all these parents are swinging together, are all swinging together in the neighborhood at the key party.

[00:17:06] So there's a lot going on, hashtag layers, you know, um, all that happening, but I was kind of like, yeah, okay. Yeah. All right. Come on. You know, it's fine. It's fine. Whatever. So yeah, the ice storm, I had an okay time more than that. Like it wasn't boring or anything, but, um, I feel like it didn't like light me up the way I was kind of hoping it would. So yeah, that's, that's my initial takes on the ice storm. Okay. Uh, yeah. It sounds like I liked this a lot more than you did, Mike. I mean, I thought this was great. I really liked this. I wish I did.

[00:17:35] Yeah, no, I, but I, I could see why I think if you start something up like the ice storm, I think it's very easy to dismiss it as like white people problems. Am I right? You know, just like, uh, you know, I, I think, uh, there is, I think, uh, for some, sort of an aversion to like stories about like upper class malaise, uh, which was a thing that was happening a lot in the nineties and on film, you know, that, that was a thing that was like, you know, you talk about it. Well, yeah.

[00:18:02] And actually, uh, if you look through the letterbox reviews, this movie, American beauty gets brought up a lot. Uh, it's like, it's like compared to American beauty frequently. Uh, most of you saying that this is better than American beauty, uh, which I agree with. Uh, you know, I, I haven't seen American beauty in a long time. Uh, and I remember kind of liking it. Like I thought it was pretty good. Um, but I also thought it was like a lot of bullshit. I don't know. Like American beauty is one of those that I kind of bounced off of. Right. And, uh, you know, I remember like I watched American beauty in a class once in like a college class.

[00:18:32] And there were so many, you know, there was discussion after the movie and people were talking about it and there were several kids who were just like, oh man, I found this scene so profound with the plastic bag and all this stuff. And I was just like, fuck this. This guy sucks. It sucks. Tell me what you think that plastic bag means. Cause I don't think it means anything. You're crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, all that stuff. But, uh, so I think it was compared to American beauty very frequently. And that, that's sort of like upper class malaise.

[00:18:59] You see that in like office space or the matrix or like that kind of thing. Right. It's, it's very present in the late nineties, you know, because it was a, it was a weird decade where it's like not much is happening, sort of like we kind of have like time to just kind of be bored. Uh, yeah. Uh, and which was a weird thing. And I think it's something that, you know, for some of these movies, future generations have a harder time relating to these films now as a result. But I think this movie has a lot more going for it than that.

[00:19:26] Uh, other than just being like, you know, upper class people, uh, you know, you know, you know, it's more about like kind of the exploring the sexual mores of that era, uh, in a similar way to like Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice and like those kinds of films, uh, and all of that. Uh, it's exploring that, but it's also exploring like adolescents kind of figuring out how sex works or what it is like sort of for the first time or like dealing with like their feelings and like a very repressed era, you know, dealing with their feelings and not necessarily a

[00:19:54] repressed era cause it's post sixties, it's post free love, all that stuff. But you're living in like suburban Connecticut, uh, you know, with your, you know, with like repressed families, I guess, who are then like kind of their own repression is coming out in different ways, uh, in the various like affairs they're having and the key party and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, so I feel like there's a lot more going on under the surface of this movie than there is similar movies of its kind around the same time, I guess is what I'm saying.

[00:20:19] For sure. For sure. Yeah. I mean, even down to the, um, you know, the way that the parents like try so hard to like repress the children, like, you know, when they walk, when Kevin Klein walks in on Elijah Wood and Christina Ricci and all this stuff and he's like, it's like a, how, how dare you anyway off to my, my marital affair, like, you know, my extra marital affair I'm having. Like, yeah. Well he, he walks in on them in, in her house, right? Like he's there, he's there to have sex with her mom. Yeah. Cause she left him.

[00:20:49] Yeah. Yeah. I mean like, yeah. And that's when he catches them and he takes, uh, her home and all of that stuff or sorry, in Elijah Wood's house. Right. Because, uh, yeah, it's like his, his daughters. Yeah. It's his daughter with Elijah Wood. And so he brings her home and he like tells his wife like, Oh, I was over at the neighbors and I caught them and I, you know, I, I stopped it. And she's like, what were you doing at the neighbors? It's like, Oh, I'm, I had to return a coffee mug girl. Right. Uh, you know, just like barely hiding it. Uh, and all of that, which is, uh, is very funny. I mean, Kevin Klein, one of

[00:21:18] the greatest comedic actors of all time. Oh my God. What a guy. Uh, obviously like a fish called Wanda is one of those things that like, you know, that movie is amazing. And so much of what makes the movie amazing is his performance in that movie. Uh, and it's very rare when like a comedic performance gets an Oscar, uh, you know, one of those things and he got one for a fish called Wanda and it's like well-deserved. Like that's one of the greatest performances ever. He's so good in that movie. He's incredible. Yeah. Uh, and so I think he brings a lot of that energy to it in the, in this movie too. Like it's,

[00:21:46] he's less, um, I think he has the same amount of like fluster in this movie that he does in like a fish called Wanda. Um, but a lot less confidence in his character, I guess in this one, um, you know, it's, it's, this character is much more like, you know, trying to keep his affairs a secret while trying to discipline his children while also trying to keep his marriage together, uh, and doing a bad job at all of it. Uh, he thinks he's like a suave cool guy, but he's just a fucking dork Connecticut suburban dad. Like there's a scene when, when

[00:22:16] he's in bed with Sigourney Weaver after one of their trysts and he starts talking about his golf game and like how he thinks, you know, I used to be good at golf in college. And like, so people think golf is a thing that I enjoy and like, whatever, he's just going off and she just cuts him, cuts him off. And it's like, look, I already have a husband. I don't want a second one. He's like, Oh, Oh yeah. Oh, of course. Sure. Yeah. And even in that, he's talking about, uh, Henry Cerny's character, right. And so much like that, that, like, because that guy is so good

[00:22:42] at golf, it's like making him look bad at golf. And it's like, he's talking about his own inadequacies. He's at work as a result of all that stuff and you know, all of that. Uh, so yeah, no, I think he's amazing in this movie. I think everyone's actually like pretty dialed into what this movie is. Uh, so we were great. Uh, and I think all the kids are really terrific actually. Um, Christina Ricci, I think in particular gets a lot of really great stuff to do. Tobey Maguire is weirdly the narrator of the movie. And I don't think of him as the point of view

[00:23:08] character when you like look at all the characters in the movie. Um, but it is like a large ensemble. So you have a lot of different characters going on. Um, but yeah, Tobey Maguire like opens the movie. Uh, he's narrating and all, almost all of his narration is him talking about fantastic four comics. Uh, so like, and it's a comic that like, it's like issue number like one 71 from the early seventies and I've read it. Uh, so I was like, I'm locked in. This is great. That's so funny. I too relate all of my major life events to the events of fantastic four. Uh, yeah, no, I think,

[00:23:38] uh, his narration is actually really fun. And I, I liked that fantastic four kind of framing device. Uh, and I like his sort of subplot going on with, uh, him and David Krumholtz who Krumholtz is his roommate. Uh, and he's like talking about how he likes this girl played by Katie Holmes. And somebody is like, what did you tell your roommate that? Uh, cause like, you know, you have a habit of like telling him that. And then he goes and sleeps with the girl that you like. Right. And he's like, well, yeah, I did tell him that shit. Okay. Now he has to like deal with that.

[00:24:05] And then when he goes to what he thinks is to hang out with her alone over Thanksgiving break in her apartment, he gets there. He's already there. Yeah. What a guy, right. But we, you know, little did we know 30, 20 years, he'd be lighting up the screen and up in high. That's true. Absolutely. Um, yeah. So I think Toby's great in this movie. I think Christina Ricci is great. I think Elijah Wood, uh, is very, very good in the movie too. Um, but let's transition into, uh, Elijah Wood. What did you think of his, uh, of his performance in this movie, Mike?

[00:24:33] Yeah. I think he's really good. Like I said, I think all the performances are great in this movie. I was just like a little like, Oh, okay. You know, it's sort of that belay is like, whatever. I don't know. I feel like the swimmer was a much, for some reason, much more impactful type of this story. Um, but, but, uh, that said, I think, I think, uh, Elijah Wood's great and it's for sure the like, oh yeah, he's, you know, he's not an adult yet necessarily. I think he's what 17 or something

[00:24:57] in this movie, like in real life. Uh, this is nine, this is 90, 97. This comes out and he was born in 81. So yeah, he'd be like 16, probably 15 when he was filming. Yeah. Um, but there is like a, you know, so we are recording this technically a little bit out of order. We still haven't, we, we still haven't watched flipper yet, which will be the previous episode of this podcast due to, you know, scheduling and podcast time travel and all that kind of stuff. So from our perspective, the last movie we talked about was the war, which was three years before this.

[00:25:25] Right. Uh, and there's a, like a significant difference in like Elijah Wood over the course of three years, I feel like, you know, because he's, he was 12 and now he's 15. He's, he's a whole different person, you know? Yeah, exactly. His voice is different. He looks different. So, uh, yeah, that's very noticeable. And I think that's part of the whole plot or whatever with the kids is like, they're all on this cusp, you know, Toby McGuire's in college already. Um, I think, right? Yeah. I think he's 16, but he's going to boarding school.

[00:25:55] Or something like that. Yeah. Or is it boarding school? I think. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, that's the whole thing. They're all on this, the cusp of, you know, burgeoning adulthood, sexuality, all these things. Um, and they, that's a huge jump from the war. That's a huge jump from anything else we've talked about with the Elijah Wood performance. And I, and I think it's, uh, he handles it really well. It's always, he's always one of the, in every other, uh, movie we've talked about where he's one

[00:26:21] of the ensemble children. Uh, he's always really stood out. Um, and, and that here too. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think what makes this ensemble so interesting is that most of the kids are pretty recognizable faces, right? So you have Elijah Wood, but you also have Christina Ricci, uh, who of course was, uh, in the Adam Stanley movies and Casper and stuff like that before this movie came out. Uh, I think she had actually said like of all the movies that she had made, this was the first one that she wanted to see. Uh, which is interesting. Uh, also one interesting,

[00:26:49] uh, something that, uh, I was kind of going through the IMDB trivia on this stuff, but in this movie, Christina Ricci has like a whole speech about, uh, you know, how Thanksgiving is, you know, stolen land from the, uh, from all that kind of stuff. And, uh, she has the exact same speech and Adam's family values. I think it's Wednesday does that same thing. That's so funny. Uh, which is kind of funny, but yeah, you have Christina Ricci. And at this point, I don't think Tobey Maguire had been in like too much, uh, like Pleasantville hadn't come out yet. Uh, obviously we're still a couple of years away from Spiderman, but he

[00:27:17] had been in a couple of movies. Uh, I feel like this is sort of the breakout Tobey Maguire film, but you have those guys. And then also obviously the debut of Katie Holmes. And so you have like a lot of like really young actors kind of in Elijah Wood and Christina Ricci's case, like sort of making their transition into adulthood roles. Uh, and Tobey Maguire and Katie Holmes' case, you know, being like, you know, a sort of a breakout film for them. Uh, and, uh, all of that I think is, is pretty interesting because we kind of talked about, you know, uh, most child actors do have to go through that like phase where it's

[00:27:45] like, okay, if you're going to make it as an adult, you gotta be in a movie with a bunch of sex in it or something. You gotta do your raunchy comedy or whatever. And so, or do you like a hard boiled action movie or something to show that you're like, you need to be taken seriously as an adult. Right. Uh, and so you have like Kurt Russell who was in like 50 Disney movies, uh, from the age of five through 17. And then in like 1980, he has like used cars, which is like the raunchiest comedy that he could possibly find. And then right after that, to escape from New York, which is like the hard, hardest of hardcore action

[00:28:15] movies. Right. Or you think about like a spring breakers as like, Oh, Selena Gomez and Vanessa Hudgens. They're not kids anymore. They're making spring breakers, you know? Uh, and I think the ice storm is like an interesting choice of like Elijah Wood. He's not Huck Finn anymore. He's not hanging out. He's not hanging out with Flipper anymore. You know, he's, uh, he's in the ice storm now. Uh, and I think that's like an interesting kind of place for this movie to be in his filmography. Yeah. Yeah. He's in a, they're, they're in a, uh, sort

[00:28:42] of like sad adult drama, you know? And I think that's, you know, kind of does track, uh, his other movies where it's like weirdly dark familial stuff happening in most of them. Yes. But, uh, yeah, there is a, there is, I think a, a, uh, a pretty big difference here. Yeah. I think, I think that's what makes it maybe a smoother transition film for him than other child actors maybe. Um, because a lot of his movies were already dealing with,

[00:29:09] you know, not necessarily like the sex stuff like this movie does. Uh, but you know, like Radio Flyer was dealing with domestic violence and, uh, you know, uh, Paradise was dealing with like a dead child and several parents have been attacked or killed over the course of Elijah Wood's movies. And obviously forever young has time travel, Mel Gibson decaying over the course of the movie, uh, all of that stuff. Um, and you know, North just has all

[00:29:37] the racism going on and you know, all that. Uh, so yeah, no, I think there is a, and of course the war has, you know, the PTSD, Vietnam war flashbacks and everything. Uh, so he's dealt with heavy subject matter before, uh, or, you know, more mature themes than I think a lot of other, uh, child actors had. And I think is able to acclimate into something like this a little bit easier than somebody like, I don't know. I'm trying to think of like, wasn't, wasn't like Miley Cyrus in like, uh, something like as she was like trying to get out of like

[00:30:03] Hannah Montana, I feel like she did something crazy or like Lindsay Lohan after like mean girls and like Herbie fully loaded. Right. She had, you know, like, I know who killed me. It was like, okay, I'm in a serious horror movie. The canyons. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Uh, you know, like there, there are so many movies like that, uh, where it's like, okay, you had a child star who really wants to establish that they are not for kids anymore. Uh, and I guess, I guess Miley Cyrus's thing was, was just her music turned much more adult after Hannah Montana. Right. You had like the wrecking ball video and all that kind of stuff.

[00:30:31] The history of child actors is a fascinating one. And like their transition from child to adulthood and like how they manage that. Um, but I think this movie is like a key text as a result of like Elijah Woods career going forward. For sure. Yeah. And I think it's interesting that he never became, like he certainly has Huck Finn, which is a Disney movie, but he's never a like Disney kid the way other people that you're sort of referencing are. And I feel like that transition, that breakout is usually much more extreme when you go like

[00:31:00] Hannah Montana or something like you said, my serious or Lindsay Lohan or whatever, or spring breakers, all the things you referenced is like they go from one end to the other hard. Um, and I feel like, uh, this sort of feels like a natural transition between the sort of kind of subject matter, if not the type of movie, but the subject matter between the other phases, the earlier phase of his career and at least in the ice storm are like kind of similar, similar territory at least. Yeah, absolutely. So how do you think this fits into the Elijah

[00:31:28] Wood role you've seen so far, Mike? I mean, obviously we've talked about some of the subject matter, but anything else that, uh, jumps out at you? Well, North has the screen debut of Scarlett Johansson. So that's interesting that this has the screen debut of, of Katie Holmes. Yeah, that's true. That's, that's fun. Um, and of course the war had the screen debut of Lucas Black from Fast and Furious Tokyo Drift. So just superstars down the line. Yeah, exactly. Um, I mean, I'm a little surprised, uh, thinking about his other childhood actor co-stars that we've kind

[00:31:55] of tracked and there's not more, there's no reunions here, uh, in that cast. I don't think, right? Uh, correct. Yeah. I think the only reunions we've had so far, uh, we had Eve Hewson, right? Or not Eve Hewson. Eve Hewson's in disclosure day. I'm thinking of, uh, uh, no, uh, Eve Gordon, I think maybe her name is, I have to double check. Uh, and I don't have the list pulled up in front of me, but you don't have the spreadsheet. I don't, I haven't been keeping good track of it because I, I'm still like several episodes behind on editing

[00:32:22] the podcast. I usually update it when I edit. Uh, but Eve, uh, something from it. She was in Avalon and also in paradise. Yeah. Uh, and then there was one of the kids from the mighty ducks who was in radio flyer and Huck Finn. I think I want to say, right. That sounds right. Something was like, I think those are only two as Eve Gordon is the actress's name. Uh, yeah, I think there's the only two Elijah reunions we've had so far. And I'm, uh, I'm surprised as well. I thought for sure at some point, especially with like a big ensemble like this, that's

[00:32:50] what I mean. Yeah. Something would happen soon. I'm surprised there's no Thor Birch or Joe Mazzello or somebody like that in this movie also. Uh, yeah. You know, it was funny. I was, so I was going through the IMD trivia, like I mentioned before of this movie, just to see if there's anything interesting that popped up. And one of them was like, this is the first collaboration between Elijah Wood and Christina Ricci. And I was like, Oh, are they in a lot of movies together? Like, why would you note that unless they're like, Oh, it's interesting. And I look, look through Christina Ricci's filmography. I could not find one other

[00:33:18] the only collaboration between them. Interesting. Yeah. And I granted it was like a, you know, a quick scan. Maybe there is something I missed, but it's just like, why did you note that? It doesn't seem like they're known for working together. Why is that a big deal? They're both in yellow jackets. Oh, okay. That makes sense. Uh, yeah, that's true. I have not watched yellow jackets, uh, which, and Elijah Wood's not main cast yellow jackets, right? He's like a recurring, uh, character. He is, but I haven't watched season three and I wouldn't be surprised if

[00:33:46] he becomes or more recurring or something like that. But yeah, they're, they're in yellow jackets together, but that's still a long time between to even notice. Yeah. Fair enough. I also forgot Christina Ricci was on yellow jackets. Actually, I think of it as the Melanie Linsky show. Uh, and kind of is, uh, but I also haven't watched it. So it's, it's like Melanie Linsky, Christina Ricci, like one other big nineties actress, right? Is it Julia Lewis? Julia Lewis is in it. Yeah.

[00:34:13] Yeah. Okay. I've heard the first season's good. Uh, season's great. Yeah. Second season's okay. And I heard third season's not that good. Okay. Oh, well the fourth season, I believe is the last one. I think they said, Oh really? Yeah, I think so. So at least they like know it's the end and they can like fingers crossed to wrap up. That's good. That's usually the, that usually showtime shows go the opposite where if something is like a hit for even like a season, it'll run for like eight years. Uh, and maybe that's not the case anymore, but like back in the day it was like, okay, Dexter eight years and now we're doing Dexter three or whatever. Now we

[00:34:43] did, we did a Dexter sequel and now we're doing young Dexter or whatever. Uh, and then I think like Homeland also like eight years, like you want an Emmy once you're, you're running forever. You're in, that's it. Uh, so yeah, it's good that yellow jackets is getting a proper ending. That's good. At least there's that. I do think of, uh, the previous Elijah Wood movies, I did want to mention actually Avalon, uh, which, uh, you know, a similar like, you know, family ensemble movie, uh, not nearly as a tumultuous and messed up as, uh, as the family in the ice storm. Uh, but one

[00:35:13] recurring thing between these two movies that I thought was interesting was that Avalon, uh, features several scenes that take place on Thanksgiving. Uh, and this movie also features, it like takes place around Thanksgiving. It has them at the Thanksgiving table and all that kind of stuff. Uh, and I think it's interesting that they both use that, uh, you know, that holiday, uh, sort of around the same Avalon takes place in like the forties or fifties, I guess. So it's a few decades earlier. Um, but, uh, you know, it, it kind of takes that like, you know, idea of that very American holiday of the

[00:35:40] family, like your, your family is gathering around together for this thing, uh, and kind of seeing how the family dynamics play out as a result of that, uh, and kind of using that in both movies. So want to give a shout out to that. That's, I thought that was kind of interesting. Yeah, that is a good connection. Yeah. And that's being a rich thematic territory, I think to explore the sort of, uh, American milieu, if you will, uh, there in the way that these corrupt Connecticut or these Connecticut people corrupt the American holidays. Interesting.

[00:36:09] Yes, absolutely. Uh, so what are the scenes or moments in the ice storm that stand out to you, Mike? What do you want to talk about? Well, I think the big one is this the first onscreen death that we've had for Elijah Wood? I don't remember. Uh, yes, I believe it is. And I, I made a note of that as well. So, uh, of course, if you are just joining us for the Elijah Wood season of the podcast and you hadn't listened to our previous four seasons, uh, that is something we like to keep track of is, uh, how many times has our actor died on screen? I don't know why we started doing that,

[00:36:37] but we did. I think I forget it was, uh, um, I can't remember. Nicholas Cage must've died like a lot towards, or maybe it was, might've even been the Goldblum season. It might have died a few times in his early movies and we were like, we should, we should start keeping track of this. Yeah. I don't know. It just seems interesting. I think, I don't think Cage, I can't remember. Did he, there was a long time where he didn't die. Like his, his characters didn't die in movies and we're like, oh, that's weird. And then of course, Goldblum is like, you know, punk number one

[00:37:04] that gets theoretically one punch killed by Charles Bronson in a couple of movies. So, yeah. Well, he escapes in Death Wish. He gets away with his crime in Death Wish, but I think in St. Ives, he gets his revenge. I think so. We have to assume it's the same guy and Charles Bronson's playing the same guy. I know Bo Svensson throws him into a wall or something and kills him. You know, one of those things. Um, so yeah, I don't know. It's just like an interesting, like, Hmm, do you, do you, does that affect our actors role choices? I wonder, you know, so we started keeping track of it. Absolutely. So yeah, this is the first time we've

[00:37:34] ever seen Elijah Wood die on film. Uh, and he is the major death in the end of this movie. He is like the, his death is the center of the entire climax of the film. Um, but, uh, yeah, no, I, yeah, I was going to say, yeah, I don't think we've seen him die before because again, before he was 12 years old, they weren't going to kill a kid. Uh, yeah, except for maybe in the good son, but he's the one that doesn't die. Macaulay Culkin dies in that movie. Yeah. So Elijah Wood of course dies at the end of this movie. Uh, it's sort of a sequence

[00:38:00] where, uh, he has gone out in the middle of the ice storm. He's on his bike, uh, and his death is just very sudden, very quick. He is, uh, like he's on the highway, I think, or like right off the side of the road. Uh, and he's sitting on, you know, the metal bar and the end of the road, the guardrail. Yes. Thank you. He's sitting on the metal guardrail and, uh, suddenly there's lightning and he like sees the lightning and looks and goes, Oh, and then the lightning strikes, uh, like strikes the guardrail and, uh, he fries. He like just falls and gets killed.

[00:38:29] He gets killed in slow motion. He slips off the thing and just dies. Um, just abandoned by his parents, uh, and his family and nobody, he just kind of went out there on his own in the ice storm. Yeah. Um, there's a sort of weird, um, you know, thing between him and his brother and Christina Ricci's character, uh, the neighbor daughter, he and Christina Ricci sort of have a thing going on together. Like they make out in the pool sometimes and all that stuff. And there's a moment, uh, like we mentioned before where Kevin Klein like catches

[00:38:59] them in the act of like, you know, they're not going to have sex, but she's like, but I'll touch it. And you, I keep my pants on or whatever. Like, you know, they're 14 or like, you know, they're, they're kids. Uh, and so they're having like this, you know, encounter and all that stuff. But at the same time, while she has a Nixon mask on, yeah, we got to talk about that. We got to talk about that. Put a pin in that for now. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, they have that encounter. And so obviously there's, you know, some charge stuff between them, but at the same time, she's also, uh, actively hitting on his younger

[00:39:28] brother who's probably like 10 or 11, uh, right in the movie. Uh, and at this time, like he, like she leads him to the bedroom, uh, like back at her house, I think she leads him back to her bedroom. Uh, and they both like get their clothes off and just like stay in the bed together, uh, and all that stuff. And while that's going on, that's when Elijah Wood leaves the house. Right. Right. He just goes out to like, look at the ice storm and he's kind of just like

[00:39:52] walking around town and sliding around in the frozen grass and, and bouncing on a frozen, uh, diving board in an empty pool for the summer or for the winter. I mean, giant boots that are really slippery. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just doing like walking around when you're not really supposed to be out stuff. Um, yeah. And yeah. And then while this is happening, his parents who in theory should be watching them, uh, or having a swinging key party, uh, where they're all getting drunk and feeling sad

[00:40:19] about it. Yeah. They're attending a swinging key party. It's right. Allison Janney is the one hosting it, I think. Right. Yes. Yes. And so, uh, that, you know, whose fault is it really that no, none of the parents are around and he just kind of goes out and yeah, it gets, gets electrocuted and dies. Um, yeah. Bucked up. Yeah. It's intense. And then the next day, Kevin Kline, uh, the neighbor father who has been sleeping with Elijah Wood's mother, uh, for their affair, Sigourney Weaver, uh, he's the one who finds, uh, his body on the, on the streets, uh, and like carries him and brings him back. And, uh, you know,

[00:40:49] obviously the family is devastated and everything. And, uh, and then it kind of ends with this moment where, uh, finally Toby McGuire comes back in because he's been out with, uh, his roommate and Katie Holmes and the train that he was supposed to get in. Like he, he makes the train. Uh, it's the, uh, MTA, uh, train from Metro North. Yeah. Yeah. The Metro North baby. I recognize those red and blue seats anywhere. Uh, you know, he's on the train and, uh, which is very like that, that train,

[00:41:14] this movie takes place in 1973 and it's like that train has stayed the exact same. Yes. They have not updated that car at all. There's still, or were still some of them in circulation on the Long Island Railroad, which is very funny. Uh, but they're finally mostly all gone. Oh really? Nice. But, uh, yeah. So like the end of the movie is like the next morning, Toby McGuire's train has finally come in because the storm like knocked off the power. And so he's been stuck in the train all night. Right. Uh, and the next morning, like the family's in the car and they pick up Toby McGuire

[00:41:43] and they just had this like moment of like, like letting, letting it out in the car. Like Kevin Clyde starts crying and the daughter starts crying and all that. Yeah. No, it's a, it's an emotional release at the end. For sure. Yeah. And you know what this, the, the, the key party part of the movie reminded me of loving. Remember that movie? Okay. Yes. Isn't that the plot of loving like that they go to us at a house party at the end, but it's not, it's not a key party in loving. Um, it's, it's, it's just a seventies party. So you could be forgiven to thinking like all

[00:42:09] seventies parties are key parties, obviously. Uh, but similarly that was, you know, um, uh, about a, a marriage kind of falling apart, uh, about, uh, you know, a character it was George Siegel and who was the, uh, the wife in loving blank. I don't remember. It's a Kathleen Turner. It's not Kathleen Turner. That would have been before Kathleen Turner. It's already like that though. Um, but it's George Siegel and man, I feel like it's like about to come to me, but it's not coming to me. I know you're looking it up. I'm looking it up. I'm getting there. Uh,

[00:42:39] but they have their own, uh, you know, marriage that's sort of falling apart and they go to this party. And I think at the party, George Siegel cheats on his wife and there's like a spy cam in like the room that he is cheating on his wife with and everybody in the party ends up seeing it. He's watching them. Yeah. Yeah. And that's how his wife finds out and all that stuff. Did you, did you figure out who it was? Eva Marie Saint. There it is. Yes. From North by Northwest. Of course. Yes. Of course. Um, but, uh, yeah, no, similar vibe. Absolutely. A similar, like, you know,

[00:43:08] upper class seventies, you know, upscale party in the suburbs kind of deal. Right. But now let's go back to the Richard Nixon mask. Oh yeah. Yeah. So yeah, we, we, uh, kind of referenced this, uh, sexual encounter that Christina Ricci and Elijah would have, uh, where again, they have this sort of like, you know, weird relationship throughout the movie. They're neighbors. They, they know each other or they've been growing up and she's chasing after his younger brother who's like 10 years old, but he's obviously like madly in love with her or has a crush on her or whatever. He's also like a

[00:43:35] socially awkward kid. Uh, and like the parents like reference that a lot. Like, uh, you know, I think Kevin Klein's like, you know, Mike, you seemed like kind of out of it today when I talked to him and he was like, he's always out of it. Like, what are you talking about? Um, you know, all, all that stuff. But, uh, yeah, they have a moment where she puts on a Richard Nixon mask, uh, and he starts taking his pants off and they start like making out. Uh, and yeah, weird, crazy. Uh, yeah. Yeah. What to make of that? Cause I mean, throughout the whole background of the movie

[00:44:03] is they're watching the Watergate hearings or talking about Nixon and they're talking about all this stuff. Yeah. They go down into the basement and they're like, well, what do we do? Like, you know, whatever. And they're like, Elijah was like, well, we could like fool around if you want. And she's like, uh, I don't know, whatever. And she like, kind of like goes over to the other side of the room. She's like, Whoa, check this out and put the mask on. Yeah. It's like, yeah. Okay. Like I'm going to keep my clothes on, but I'll touch it. I guess like, and that's what the whole like thing is, but like, it's just so weird. And you can tell that he's like,

[00:44:29] not sure that he's like, I don't, he like really hesitates before he undoes his pants, like looking at her with an Richard Nixon mask on. I think internally he's like, is this going to warp my sexual preferences for the rest of my life? Am I only going to be attracted to Richard Nixon from this point forward? Exactly. Um, but yeah, there's also something very sad or going on with Christina Ricci's character who seems to be using her sort of like new sexuality stuff, um, like for attention or something, right? Cause she goes between the

[00:44:58] both of the brothers. Yeah. Like sort of just cause she can like, not even that, like she necessarily like wants either of them or whatever, but like, and, and then like the, the brother freaks out in the bathroom when she's like, I'll show you mine if you show me yours or whatever. And he's like, well, why, what do you want this for? Or whatever. I forget exactly. Yeah. It's just, it's just like, what's weird sexual politics with the seventies and stuff coming yet another coming of age movie here. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. She does seem like weirdly disaffected throughout

[00:45:24] the whole thing. Um, and I think part of it is, uh, you know, she's jaded by, uh, her parents who she thinks are like kind of hypocrites and who don't really understand her. Uh, I think there's a really good scene where, uh, you know, her dad, like, you know, she's like her parents come home from something or whatever early in the movie and she's on the phone, like talking to her friend. Uh, and the dad just like, you know, freaks out. Like I told you to go to bed, like all that stuff. And like, he rips the phone off the cord. Uh, and then like seconds later,

[00:45:50] he like goes back and he's like, okay, I love you. Like all that stuff. Um, which is a very, like, I think an accurate depiction of like parenting and kids sometimes and all that stuff. Right. Um, yeah, you have like scenes like that and you have a, this sort of generational divide between them where, uh, you know, she's saying things like the president should be like, you know, Nixon should be shot. Like, you know, all that stuff. Right. Like she's like as far deep as it goes because of Watergate is happening and the,

[00:46:14] and the parents were like, okay, calm down. Like, you know, uh, cause I'm sure they voted for Nixon. Right. Like that's, it's definitely like, uh, you know, Republican versus liberal old versus youth, uh, kind of, uh, generational divide between the two happening there. Uh, and so I think she views her parents as hypocrites. Uh, I think the only real person in her life who she seems to get along with is Tobey Maguire, uh, who is away at boarding school, right? It's her brother, but he's never around. But when he, like, they have like inside jokes that they like trade back and forth. I like the recurring bit where they both call each

[00:46:43] other Charles. Uh, which I don't get a lot. I don't get the reference, but I'm guessing it's a reference to something in the seventies. It's fun, whatever it is. Yeah. It's, and it's a good, like, you know, brother sister bit that they have between the two of them. Uh, and you know, he's telling her about Katie Holmes and all that stuff. Right. And I think she, I think she's the one he's talking to on the phone when, uh, he's telling her about, um, yeah. Right. Like when he's like, when she's the one who's like, isn't your roommate always sleeping with your crushes on? I love the running bit. Her Katie Holmes,

[00:47:11] this character's name is like limits Casey. Yeah. And everybody's like, what kind of name is limits? Like everybody keeps saying that. That's so funny. Yes. All that stuff's great. Um, so yeah, I think with Christina Ricci's character, there is like this, uh, this sort of feeling of isolation, this feeling that she is completely alone removed from her family. And the only people that she really connects with are Tobey Maguire, who's never around or these two neighbor boys, uh, who she's kind of enjoying having like power over, uh, you know,

[00:47:39] and, uh, then, you know, things obviously take a turn towards the movie with Elijah Wood's character. Right. Yeah. And she's like, right on, she's just too young. Like, like Tobey Maguire's character gets to take the train into the city by himself for the day, you know, like, uh, but nope, she's got to stay home and, and will not be allowed to do anything yet. Yes. And there's absolutely a gender thing there too, where, uh, you know, like, uh, even like, you know, when she's talking about maybe going out, the dad's like, no, you got to stay home or whatever. And with Tobey Maguire, again, he's a couple of years older, but still like,

[00:48:08] uh, he's like, uh, the mom initially is like, okay, 10 30 train home. And he's like, mom. And the dad's like 11 30 train kid. We'll let the kid live a little, let him live a little. Yeah, exactly. For sure. You know? So there's, there's that aspect of it too. Um, yeah. And we should speak about, uh, the Tobey Maguire stuff too. Cause that's a whole subplot that's sort of happening separate from the rest of the movie, like kind of the main action between the two families. Um, but, uh, yeah, obviously. So you have Tobey Maguire and you have David Krumholz and Katie Holmes. Katie Holmes is the girl that Tobey Maguire has a crush on. David

[00:48:37] Krumholz is his roommate who has every intention of sleeping with this girl, uh, instead of Tobey Maguire and seems like he's going to succeed. As soon as he gets to that, uh, he gets to her place and he sees David Krumholz there. It's like, okay, the vibe is clearly like, that's going to happen. Yeah. Oh, it's so funny when she opens the door and she, she's like, oh, cause I think he's late or something. And she's like, oh, we were starting to get worried. And he's

[00:49:01] like, we, and he turns the corner and it's David Krumholz is there. You're like, nah, this poor guy. Yes. Uh, and of course like Tobey's like perfect for that kind of role. He just perfect for like that kind of dweeby, like, you know, uh, guy who's always, yeah, he's Peter Parker, right? It's, it's why he's the best Peter, uh, in my opinion, you know, he's just feels like somebody who's always getting overlooked for like the next guy over, uh, that kind of thing. And weirdly, you know, I was kind of looking through the Tobey Maguire filmography. Cause I was like,

[00:49:29] you know, I love those Spider-Man movies so much. I've seen the same Ramey trilogy of Spider-Man movies so many times that I feel like Tobey Maguire was like a huge part of like, you know, my childhood growing up. And I looked through his movies and he has like 10, he's not in that many movies. He's in Seabiscuit. I remember that. He is in Seabiscuit. Of course, he's in Pleasantville, uh, you know, and, uh, who could forget that that cider house, it rules, you know, it's, uh, but, uh, I think that's what that movie is about. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:55] It's the cider house rules, um, with an exclamation point and a Z at the end. Uh, you know, uh, so yeah, he had a few big movies in that like kind of mid, like late nineties to early two thousands period, but post Spider-Man, he really like stopped making a ton of stuff. Um, you know, and he, I think he was in the first boss baby, right? We talked about that, uh, years ago, but then it was recast for boss baby too. I don't think he was in the second one. Right. I don't remember it. I, cause I think he was the kid in boss baby. I want to say right with, uh, the titular boss baby.

[00:50:24] Wasn't he? Or maybe it was just Alec Baldwin. No, no, no. Alec Baldwin was the boss baby, of course. Uh, but I think, I think he was the boss baby's older brother in, uh, in the first one. Oh, or is he the father of the babies? I can't, something like that. He's one of the, he's somebody in the family. And then I think he gets recast. I want to say James Marsden takes over the role in the second one or something like that. But yeah, recently, I think the only thing that I've seen Tobey Maguire in, uh, he was of course in Spider-Man No Way Home where he reprised the role of Peter Parker, but then he was also, he popped up in the third act of Babylon. Uh,

[00:50:52] and when he showed up in Babylon, a lot of people don't like that section of the movie. And a lot of people don't like Babylon. Yeah. To be fair. I think the movie is pretty good. Not great, but pretty good. Okay. Uh, and the Tobey Maguire section was the part that I have kind of liked the most because it was just like this descent into madness. Uh, and it was just a really weird use of Tobey Maguire that I really liked. I, I think, uh, this movie like really taps into like, yeah, you get why he got cast to play Peter Parker like two years later. Like this makes sense, right? For sure. For sure. He goes through the medicine cabinet and finds like Vicodin or

[00:51:22] something. What does he find in there? I forget. It's some kind of sleeping pill or something. They don't say, I don't think. Yeah. Yeah. But he, he's trying to drug David Krumholtz, uh, so that he will pass out and then he can be alone with Katie Holmes. Uh, and he does successfully pass the drug on to David Krumholtz. He's like, Hey, I found these in the bathroom, man. You want to try something? Uh, and David Krumholtz takes it and Tobey like pretends to take it. Uh, but like he's doing this while Katie Holmes is like out doing something or whatever.

[00:51:48] I think in the other room or something in the other room, but she comes back and sees them taking it. And so she's like, Hey, I want in on this. And he's trying to be like, Oh no, you shouldn't, you know, whatever. It's like, okay, thanks dad. And she takes it. Uh, and, and so David Krumholtz passes out, but then she also passes out. Uh, and it's a, it's a very funny, like her, she passes out and her just, her head just like slams right into his lap. And it's very like 15 year old boy thing of like, well, what do I do? Uh, now what, now, uh, and you know, it doesn't

[00:52:18] do anything. You just kind of eventually remove it takes a while, but eventually removes her off. Uh, and then, uh, just kind of takes the train and get, gets on home. Um, but yeah, I think that whole sequence is, uh, is a very fun depiction of just like teenagers experimenting with drugs. They don't understand in the seventies, like unsupervised from their parents for the first time kind of thing. Uh, and you kind of take those scenes and you juxtapose it with the parents at the key party and then basically doing the same thing. Right. Just like at

[00:52:45] a much older and sadder age, uh, of a, in a, in a weird, it's weird to watch. Like, obviously the stuff there is also sad. There should be a tinge with sadness, but it also is like, I think a very good dark comedy too. It's a very funny movie, uh, at times. Yeah. Um, you know, there's one look where, uh, there's one moment at the key party where this woman walks in with her son. Right. And, and, and one of the dads or one of the other men is like,

[00:53:10] it points out to Kevin Klein and, uh, he's like, too bad nobody brought their daughters. Hey, and he like nudges them and walks away. And Kevin Klein gives him the greatest side eye. Like who the fuck is this person? Like, it's so funny. Um, and yeah, and I think it is interesting the way that the movie, they're all doing the same thing. The teenagers and the adults are all getting fucked up, trying to have sex with each other. And it's just like, what, what is trying to reclaim their teenage years and the other ones are trying

[00:53:38] to be adults while they're teenagers or whatever. And it's like, damn. Yeah. Like, absolutely. And there is like sort of a societal thing where it's like, oh, well this is what you're kind of supposed to do as a teenager. Right? Like this is like, this is, this is how your life is supposed to be. But if you're doing it at the age that these adults are like society is kind of like, this is a little sad. This is like, yeah, I think even down to Christina Ricci, I think shoplifts like a, uh, Twinkies or devil dogs or something. I think it's, I think it's the mom. It's Joan Allen's character. And then the mom and then Joan Allen does it

[00:54:06] also. Yeah. So it's like, it's that, that thing where it's like, oh, it's whatever a teen is stupid teenagers doing. And then the mom is doing it and you're like, tis, tis, like how dare, like, yeah. The way that we, and she gets caught right away too. Like she does not get out of the store. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I think that's, that's a, you know, uh, thematic linchpin of the moment where it's like, oh, we're doing the teenagers and parents are the exact same. Yeah, absolutely. And so the, I mean, the first half of this movie is largely kind of setting all this up. It's like, you know, it's kind of leading

[00:54:36] you to ultimately the night of the ice storm, the night where, uh, Toby's at his room, at Katie Holmes's place, the night where, uh, she's watching the two, she's hanging out with the two boys, Christina Ricci and Elijah Wood and, uh, the younger brother, but then also the night this key party is happening. Uh, and right before the key parties happened, uh, Joan Allen has basically like discovered the affair between Kevin Klein and Sigourney Weaver. Right. Uh, and she's like, I do not want to go to this. And they don't know that it's a key party before they get there. Right. Or at least she doesn't. I don't know. I feel

[00:55:05] like somebody talks about a key part. Like, I think early in the movie, they do talk about a key party. Like while they're at, like, I think the, the, the hoods and the, uh, the other family, the carvers are all hanging out together and like the adults are talking about like, Whoa, wouldn't that be crazy or whatever, you know? And they, and they talk about like how fun that might be and all that kind of stuff. Uh, and I think all of them, when they get to the key party are like, this is actually a lot less fun than I thought it

[00:55:30] was going to be. This sucks. This, uh, is making me feel awful. And especially for Kevin Klein and Joan Allen, who, uh, Joan Allen, like minutes before they leave this party, uh, has basically like put it together that, uh, you know, or had it basically confirmed for her that Kevin Klein has been sleeping with Sigourney Weaver. Her husband's been sleeping with, uh, you know, the neighbor and they're going to this party where Sigourney Weaver is going to be. Uh, and also all of like Kevin Klein's like, you know, associates, like

[00:55:57] people he works with and all that stuff. Uh, and they get there and he's just like, okay, listen, we'll just put it in an appearance and then we can go. And they, they walk in and the second they walk in, Allison Janney has the bowl of keys and it's like, all right, everybody get in. And they're like, uh, we left our keys in the car. We'll be right back. Uh, yep. Well, they have an out later in the, later in the scene, in the party where they're like, okay, anyone who's staying over, like it's time. Um, and he goes to Joan Allen is like, okay, you're ready to leave. And she's like, no, we're

[00:56:24] staying. Yeah. She's staying as a, as like a punishment to Kevin Klein's character. Right. Like she's like trying to make him jealous, trying to make him upset, uh, and succeeds, you know, it's yeah. But then also regrets it. Yeah, absolutely. And so you have this whole key party scene. Uh, and I think throughout the, like, it's basically, you know, the women all take turns picking keys out of the bowl and, uh, you know, just going off one by one with the men. Uh, and you know, some of them have different reactions to it.

[00:56:50] And one guy is like one guy's wife, like accidentally picks their own keys. Yeah. And he's like, okay, yeah, that, that, that sounds good. Let's get out of here. That's great. Yeah. Uh, all that stuff, which is funny. Um, and you can tell Kevin Klein is like hoping that at least maybe Sigourney Weaver will pick his keys. Um, but she doesn't, uh, she ends up with somebody else and, uh, he's the son that young guy. Yes. Yeah. I guess the son and he like gets up and like drunkenly stumbles over the coffee table to try to stop it. And, uh, yeah, that doesn't

[00:57:18] work. Um, and, uh, then eventually it turned, it's, um, it's just, uh, like the last couple of wives are left. And I think it's just, uh, Joan Allen who picks the keys and it's like the one husband left and he's kind of like, yeah, it's Sigourney Weaver's husband. Like they're the last two left. So they're like, well, I guess. Yeah. And so they, uh, you know, they're kind of awkward about it and they, you know, they're like, listen, we don't have to do anything. And she's like,

[00:57:43] listen, my husband's drunk in the bathroom, passed out right now. And if he's not passed out, I'm betting he wished he was, you know, like, uh, it's more about getting revenge on him. Uh, and I think the husband is aware, aware of this affair that's been going on between and we were two. Right. Um, and so the two of them like leave and they go in a car and they're about to you, but it lasts for like five seconds. Uh, and it ends in tears on from the husband. He's like,

[00:58:10] I'm sorry, I can't do this. And you know, all that stuff. And so, yeah, no, it's, it's a really awkward, really sad moment. It's, it's a difficult scene to watch. And then she finally goes back inside and like gets Kevin Kline, like off of the bathroom floor, like clean yourself up. Let's get out of here. Like that kind of thing. And they end up sleeping at the other family's house. Uh, I wanted to mention to talk about the funny parts of this movie earlier in the, there's a dinner scene, I think where they talk about the key party where they're like, Oh, I heard the other family who,

[00:58:37] you know, whatever. Um, where Elijah Wood spills wine into Kevin Kline's lap and Sigourney Weaver is like, Oh, it's here, here. And she's like patting his lap and crotch with a towel. Um, and just like being very nonchalant about touching his dick and balls. Uh, and, and it just cuts over to Joan Allen, like staring daggers at them. It's like the beginnings of the, the beginnings of the ideas are there that

[00:59:03] like, she's way too comfortable touching my husband that way. Like, and it's just so funny that they're just carry on their conversation as she's just like patting him in the lap with the, with the, the towel, uh, cleaning the wine up darkly funny. Yes, absolutely. There's another great scene where I think it's, um, it's the younger brother, Elijah Wood's brother, that's Sigourney Weaver, her son. Um, she, he's like playing with something outside. He's like playing with like fireworks. Yeah. Yeah. And she's like coming out like what, like you, that's so dangerous. You're gonna making so much noise. You got to stop. Uh, and I think he

[00:59:30] starts playing with like a bow and arrow instead or something like that. And she's like, yeah, that's fine. Whatever. Just, yeah. I forget what it is. Yeah. But something along those lines, some seventies death trap toy. Yeah. It's like, as long as it's not making noise, that's okay. Go do it. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, yeah. All that stuff is great. Um, yeah, I, I like, uh, when at the beginning of the movie, the beginning of the movie is Tobey Maguire, like at his boarding school and like he's in a literature class with Katie Holmes. Uh, and he like catches up with her afterwards and

[00:59:58] he's like, Oh, have you, have you read the idiot? Uh, it's, uh, you know, all that stuff. And that very like awkward, uh, trying to court Katie Holmes stuff is very funny too. Very good. Yeah. That poor, poor boy, his roommate's just too hot. It's too cool. He's, he's, he's Krumholz and man, that's, uh, that's yeah. I mean, obviously I had seen the Santa Claus, uh, you know, when I was a kid, but I feel like for a long time, uh, my reference for David Krumholz was the movie Serenity, the Firefly movie, uh, which he is a Mr. Universe in Serenity and pops up a few times in that movie.

[01:00:27] Since, since then he's become a character after I'm like, Hey, Krumholz is here. Great. Uh, you know, obviously he's in like 10 things I hate about you and a bunch of other stuff like from the era. And of course, recently Oppenheimer, which is cool. Not to be confused with Serenity, that one Matthew McConaughey movie, right? Different Serenity. Yes. Equally good, but different. Uh, and yeah, one last thing I wanted to mention, uh, kind of come back to that Richard Nixon mask. Uh, it's always funny to include Richard Nixon in your movie. It's, it's, uh, I saw somebody recently

[01:00:54] like on Twitter or something like that. Nice guys clip was shared, uh, where it's like Richard Nixon. Yeah. Where like Ryan Gosling is like drowning and he sees Richard Nixon, uh, there's a whole story, like, you know, backstory to that in the nice guys of like why that's happening and all that stuff. Uh, but it's such a funny moment where like he thinks he's dying and he has this hallucination of Richard Nixon. Uh, and somebody was like, yeah, no, it's, it's always funny to include Richard Nixon in your movie. Uh, and that's true. Uh, you know, nice guys does it. This movie of course has the Nixon mask. Uh, and actually recently in disclosure day, uh, there's a very good bit

[01:01:24] involving Richard Nixon. Uh, uh, very funny where they're, uh, showing like, you know, you haven't seen disclosure day yet, right? Correct. I did not say it. Yeah. Okay. Mild spoilers for disclosure day, but it involves like disclosing the information about aliens and, uh, you know, all that stuff. And one of the first videos you see is Richard Nixon showing Jackie Gleason around area 51. That's amazing. It's a good bit. It's really funny.

[01:01:50] Holy shit. Uh, so yeah, all that stuff's great. Really enjoyed it. Uh, and I honestly, when this movie started, uh, like I, I didn't know too much about it other than like, you know, the general I knew had involved a key party and all that stuff. Uh, I had forgotten that it takes place in the seventies. Uh, and when the movie started, I was like, Oh, boarding school type thing. Like, I wonder if this does this take place in the seventies. And then the next thing you see is Watergate happening. I was like, okay, yep. Got it. Perfect period marker. You got that. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:02:20] Cause like you said, we couldn't tell from the train cars that's cause those are still in use. Yes, exactly. This could be, this could be 2022 for all I know, you know, it's yeah. Uh, but in any case, any, uh, last things about the ice storm that you wanted to mention, Mike, any other random bits or moments that stand out to you? Um, no, I think we've been going for an hour. I think that's, that's enough ice storm talk for now. Okay. Fair enough. But, uh, yeah, I thought this was great. I had a really good time with it. Uh, you know, Ang Lee is somebody who I feel like I am sometimes

[01:02:47] hit or miss on. Um, but when he hits, I think he hits great. And obviously crashing tigers. Great. Uh, I really love eat, drink man, woman. Uh, one of his earlier films. Uh, and, uh, I've not seen, uh, the wedding banquet, but I recently saw the remake of the wedding banquet when it came out last year. And, uh, that was very charming. Uh, so I'm sure the original is also very good. Uh, but, uh, yeah, obviously I crashed and tiger. I actually, I still haven't seen broke back mountain. That's one of I haven't seen that either. Actually, I was just going to say, I feel like I haven't really seen

[01:03:15] much Ang Lee other than the Hulk, this and scratching tiger. Um, so maybe we got to do a deep dive on Ang Lee. Maybe I saw taking Woodstock in theaters back in the day. Uh, that's an Ang Lee movie. That is an Ang Lee movie. Yeah. I saw that. I have seen that also. Yeah. The Ang Lee movie starring Demetri Martin in the lead role, uh, which the, that brief period of time where Demetri Martin was like the big star in the world. Um, but, uh, yeah, I saw taking Woodstock, saw life of pie in theaters, uh, which, uh, I remember liking, uh, and the 3d effects in that movie were pretty wild. Uh, so yeah, all that stuff,

[01:03:44] but, uh, yeah, I'm very much looking forward to, uh, what he does next, this new Western, uh, thing that he's making. Um, but the ice storm high praise. I liked it a lot. All right. I, yeah, it's fine. Like whatever. No, I liked it more than that, but not as much as you, it seems. Yeah. Fair enough. But all right. Letterboxd review is time. Let's see what the people have to say about the ice storm. Here's a four and a half star review from evasive, which reads, would you believe me if I told you this heartbreaking, Ang Lee film has a scene where Frodo dry humps Wednesday Adams while she's wearing a Richard

[01:04:14] Nixon mask. Damn. And it sure does. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, here's a four and a half star review from Ben Hibbard, which reads the ice storm is Ang Lee's odyssey into sexual frustration and emotional stagnation centered around a well-off suburban family. This is basically American beauty before American beauty. The ice storm has a wonderfully constructed cast. Kevin Klein, Joan Allen, Sigourney Weaver, Toby McGuire, and Christina Ricci all give sincere poignant performances and the writing that underpins their characters is nothing short of wonderful. Every character in

[01:04:43] this film is fully fleshed out and given real characterization. Ang Lee does an excellent job of allowing the emotional pressure cooker to keep building upon itself. And you know, there will be a moment when it boils over and when it does, the film delivers on its themes. I don't want to say too much about this film. I know it's been out for a long time, but I went into this completely blind. I didn't even read the synopsis. I feel as though that's the best way to approach this film. So all I'll say is check this film out. If you haven't already, it's worthy of your time. And on a final slightly off topic notes, after watching this film,

[01:05:09] I think Ang Lee would be the perfect filmmaker to adapt to catcher in the rye. That's all I could think about. Whoa. Interesting thought. Uh, of course, catcher in the rye, uh, never adapted into film. I don't believe, right? I don't think JD Salinger allowed it, uh, or anything like that. Uh, I'm pretty sure there's never been a catcher in the rye adaptation. I mean, Salinger also never wrote another book, right? After catcher in the rye. It's, uh, or nothing that was published, correct? You're an English master, Mike. I feel like you should know this more than me.

[01:05:37] Yeah, no, for sure. Salinger is also, it was a pretty big blind spot for me. I never read catcher in the rye. Uh, okay. I mean, that would be the blind spot because I'm pretty sure it's his only book. Well, I know he's got short stories. This is where I was going to go with that. Cause I've read, I've read some of those, but I don't know if there was ever another novel. Um, and I somehow never got that assigned to me. Interesting. So that's why I missed it. Basically, you know, fair enough. I, I don't believe there's ever been a film

[01:06:02] adaptation of catcher in the rye. Uh, and I'm sure I, I, again, I, I don't necessarily know that that's true, but I'm pretty sure there's never been a catcher in the rye adaptation. Uh, certainly not, certainly not one that's like well-known at this point. I feel like we would know if there was like a well-known catcher in the rye adaptation. Uh, but, uh, yeah, no, I think, uh, I could, I could see watching the ice storm and feeling like this is sort of the tone you would want for catcher in the rye movie if you were going to make one. Yeah. No, it makes sense

[01:06:28] from what I've gathered. Yeah. I mean, I read catcher in the rye when, uh, I was in 10th grade maybe and, uh, it was good. Yeah. Okay. Uh, all right. I got one last review here. This is a four-star review. This is from somebody that I know actually a friend of mine who works at the box of theater. Uh, Josh Moyer gave it a four-star review and he said, there's a lot to be said about the somber tiptoeing Lee is doing around the destabilization of family values, but I can't stop thinking about the way Elijah Wood is drifting through this movie,

[01:06:55] like the ghost of a Victorian child. Whoa. Which is kind of true. Like the way Elijah Wood kind of carries himself in this movie, he sort of feels like, uh, like I feel like when you rewatch the ice storm, if you get, if I got the chance to rewatch it down the line, I feel like the movie's going to be heavily foreshadowing his death in just the way his performance is kind of capturing, like he's already like half out anyway, you know? Right. Yeah. There's, I mean, there's that moment when they're playing football as a schoolyard flag football or something. And he's like

[01:07:22] wide open for a pass and he just like stops running. He just gives up and he just stops running and doesn't catch it. And everyone's like, you're used to high or something, man. And you're just like, well, what is, what is this about? Like, yep. He's already over it with life. Exactly. And, uh, then of course he dies at the end of the movie, the first Elijah Wood death. And we'll see if there are any more, maybe there will be, uh, who knows? He does not die in Lord of the Rings as far as I remember. Sin City, he might die. Yeah, actually I think he might die in Sin City.

[01:07:50] I was just thinking about Toxic Avenger. I don't think he dies in that movie. He does not die in Ready or Not 2, uh, which, oh man, you haven't seen that spoilers. Sorry. I almost watched it the other weekend and I was like, I'm gonna have to watch this again in 10 months or whatever. Right. Yeah. I'll just wait. Fair enough. Uh, yeah. So, but, uh, I'm sure there are possible deaths along the way and we will chronicle them as they come through. Uh, but Mike D, where can we find you online this week? You can find me at MD film blog on letterboxd and blue sky. You

[01:08:20] can also donate to support the show on our Kofi page, Kofi.com slash Mike and Mike pods, where you can also donate $50 and pick a topic for us to watch or pick a movie for us to watch on the bonus episodes. Mike might go to the movies. You want us to watch a phantom JD Salinger adaptation? We'll find one and do it, I guess. We'll do something. Maybe a movie with JD Salinger as a character. Is he, he's gotta be in some, in something. Um, anyway, $50 on the Kofi page, Kofi.com slash Mike and Mike pods. And if you want merch, we have merch available

[01:08:48] on our red bubble, Mike and Mike pods.redbubble.com. That's right. I'm currently looking up the catcher in the rye on Wikipedia, uh, just to, just to make sure there's never been an adaptation. I feel like they're like, there couldn't be right. You know, like somebody's had to have tried, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did block it, if it's a state or something. Yeah. Here's a, the Wikipedia, uh, our article of catcher in the rye has a subsection called attempted adaptations.

[01:09:13] Ah, okay. Uh, so many have tried, it looks like in film. Uh, and apparently in the forties, he was actually pretty willing to have his, uh, work adapted to the screen, uh, and then stopped. Uh, he denied Ilya Kazan permission to stage an adaptation for Broadway in 1961. Uh, Harvey Weinstein tried to make it. Steven Spielberg tried to make it at some point. Uh, neither, neither of those, uh, bids were even passed on to Salinger for consideration. They stopped at his

[01:09:39] agent. Uh, yeah, no, there has never been an adaptation. Apparently, uh, in, in 2020, the Walt Disney company almost made an animated film titled doofus, which would have been an adaptation of the catcher in the rye with German shepherds in a similar, in a similar vein to, uh, Oliver and company being Oliver twist, uh, or like the lion King being Hamlet or something like that. Yeah. Catcher in the rye, but with, uh, German shepherds. And it, this was revealed in 2020.

[01:10:07] I don't think this was happening in 2020. This would have been probably in like the eighties or something. That makes way more sense. I was like, that doesn't sound like a 2020 Disney project. Now Disney's being like, I think the kids are ready for catcher in the rye with dogs. I think it's happening. I think we need to return to tradition and have overly dramatic animated animal adaptations of classic literature done by Disney better than the live action adaptations that we're getting now.

[01:10:32] That is very true. I mean, we did just have, uh, Andy circuses, uh, CGI animal version of a animal farm that just came out, uh, which I've heard is horrendous. I've heard it's really bad. That's what I've heard. Yeah. Uh, you can find me online at, uh, M Smith film blog and Twitter and blue sky, Mike Smith film on letterbox radio, Mike sandwich, Instagram. You can also find this podcast on Instagram at complete works pod. Thanks so much for listening to the complete works. I'm Mike Spence, Mike Decrecio. Don't forget to read and view the show on Apple podcasts or any other

[01:10:58] podcast app. And if you want to contact us, you can ski at us at complete works pod or go to Instagram as well. You can find the rest of our podcasts and route your press alongside many other podcasts, what kinds of comic books, movie news and all that good stuff. Our theme song was created by Kyle Cullen. Who can reach for your own podcast themes at Kyle's podcast themes at gmail.com. And our logo was designed by Mac V or at fearless guard on Twitter next week. Speaking of Oliver twist, actually Elijah Wood plays the artful Dodger in the 1997 TV movie version of Oliver twist.

[01:11:27] No way. Yes, no, that is a, that's what's coming up next. Mike, a weird coincidence. This one, I wish we were talking about Oliver and company. I think that would be a fun movie to talk about. Actually, uh, a childhood favorite of mine, Billy Joel's in Oliver and company. What? Have you not seen Oliver and company? I have, but I don't remember anything about it. Oh, Billy Joel plays the artful Dodger in, uh, I mean, well, his character is just named Dodger. He's a dog in, uh, in Oliver and company, but, uh, he's cool. He has sunglasses and he sings, why should I worry? Uh, the, uh, you know, which is a Billy Joel song that, uh,

[01:11:56] he wrote for the movie. Uh, Oliver and company was pretty fun. I remember liking that movie. Um, and I, and I have also seen Oliver, the 1968, uh, you know, musical adaptation. I've never seen the 97 TV movie, Oliver twist with Elijah Wood. So, uh, we'll see how it goes. You're about to Richard Dreyfuss is in it. So we got that going for us too. Uh, so we'll talk about that next week. Remember to check out our other podcasts, Mike and Mike go to the movies for all kinds of other movie related stuff, including recent releases, ranked lists, general discussions, and a lot more. Thanks so much for listening guys.

[01:12:25] Join us next time. Would you?