This week, it's time to talk about one of the most notorious films of the '90s, a movie that is arguably more remembered for Roger Ebert's scathing review of it than for the movie itself. So we have to ask: is NORTH as bad as its reputation? Could Rob Reiner - who had directed so many classic films - stumble this much in his generational run? Couldn't the insane cast this movie assembles save it somehow?
Well, it's time to find out - since Elijah Wood is in it, we've got to talk about NORTH!
[00:00:00] All right, then keep your secrets. Get that frog out of your pants. I'm the guy. The real guy. Where do all these movies come from anyway? Just fucking ding-a-ling. I will take the ring to Moldo. Though, I do not know the way.
[00:00:24] Hello and welcome to episode 11 of The Complete Works season five. A deep dive into the career and films of actor Elijah Wood. My name is Mike Smith and joining me on this journey there and back again is my friend, co-host, and fellow good son, Mike Decricio. How's your name, Mike? I'm doing great. I'm excited for today's episode. And I think it'll be interesting now that the episodes are out into the world.
[00:00:49] And we already got one good son replacement suggestion. So we'll see if we get any more. Yes. Yeah, I guess maybe I should save that for next week then. I was just pulling it up because I realized as I was saying good son that I should throw that in there. But yeah, let's save it for next week from producer Colin. We had a replacement for good son that he came up with. So we'll see if it sticks. We'll see what happens. I feel like good son might be the default. And if we have any alternatives that pop up throughout the season, we'll use them. Maybe we'll see what happens. Mix them in. Yeah, why not?
[00:01:19] Yeah, exactly. So Mike, today we're talking about a pretty infamous movie, I think is fair to say. Yeah. Legendary. Infamous. Good word, I think. Yeah. Yes. But before we really get into what today's movie is, we should acknowledge, you know, a few months back, the news broke that beloved actor director Rob Reiner,
[00:01:39] along with his wife, Michelle Singer, died in a particularly tragic way. So that news left a lot of people in shock and seemed like a very like horrifically violent end for someone who was often considered like one of the nicest guys in Hollywood. Yeah. Like Rob Reiner, just one of those guys that was super genial, super exciting, very friendly guy, super progressive in his politics, all of that stuff. But like also somebody who's just kind of like exuded a warmth, both in his movies, I think a lot of the time, you know, you look at like when Harry met Sally or the Princess Bride.
[00:02:07] But then also whenever he appeared on screen, obviously he was an all in the family. But as he got older, he was often like a very like fun father figure in movies or TV shows. He was just his father on New Girl. And he was also very memorably a great supporting role in The Wolf of Wall Street, which he was great in as well. Yeah. And I just happened to watch that that Judd Apatow documentary on Mel Brooks, the Mel Brooks, the 99 year old man, which obviously Carl Reiner features very heavily in, you know, in archival interviews and stuff.
[00:02:34] And then also Rob Reiner is in it a lot. So it was like and I watched that, you know, early this year. So it's like right after all that happened and it was like, damn, that's like it hit it hit a lot harder than I think maybe it would have otherwise. But yeah, you can really feel like what just like, especially with between Mel Brooks and the Reiners and everything, just like the love and how deep all that was with them. Yeah, absolutely. So in in the wake of Rob Reiner's death, there was a lot of talk about the incredible run of movies that he made throughout the 80s and early 90s,
[00:03:03] where he seemed unstoppable and like continually made movies that still reverberate today, like are still like constantly referenced, constantly quoted, like some of the most famous lines and scenes of the 80s and 90s. This is Spinal Tap, Stand By Me, Princess Bride, When Harry Met Sally, Misery, A Few Good Men. Some also include the movies like The Sure Thing, which I've never seen, but that's like between Spinal Tap and Stand By Me.
[00:03:29] And it's supposedly pretty good. And The American President is sometimes included as part of that run as well, which is the movie he made after today's movie. The American President I've also never seen, actually, but also an Aaron Sorgan script. And I would love the chance to talk about any of these movies on the podcast someday. That'd be nice. It's kind of wild that we haven't actually on any of the Complete Work seasons. Like none of our actors have made it into any of these movies, but many of them are, you know, generation defining films, like great movies.
[00:03:58] So it would be great to, you know, actually spend some time talking about one of them one of these days. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it is interesting that even, I mean, I guess it's that weird, that kind of weird, other than Elijah Wood, like in between period for us, for the people, the subjects of our seasons, where it's like they kind of start before the Rob Reiner stuff. So by the time these movies come, they're not going to be in the like, oh, so two scenes supporting guy that shows up for a minute type of roles.
[00:04:25] Other than Elijah Wood, who missed it by that much, basically, with the one that he's in. Yeah, absolutely. But these are movies that, you know, we quote all the time. You know, I think we've definitely said, you know, this goes up to 11 from Spinal Tap many times over the course of the podcast. How many times have we said inconceivable when talking about the Nicolas Cage movie inconceivable? Inconceivable! Right. How many times have we said, he didn't get out of the cock-a-doodie car in reference to something over the years on this podcast, right?
[00:04:54] Yeah, yeah. I mean, but also, yeah, I mean, absolutely. And then just in general, our, like my day-to-day life, you know, you can't handle the truth. Like how many, you know, that's in all this stuff, all the time. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And then we were sort of tangential to one of them in subject matter. I feel like guarding Tess and the American president are kind of clear, you know, got a similar vibe. Absolutely. Guarding Tess 94, American president 95. So like, you know, right around the same time too, yeah.
[00:05:20] Yeah, and I've seen the American president, but I haven't seen it in a really long time. So that one in particular, I mean, I know that's sort of like after, quote unquote, the run, but it's not the one that I'm super familiar with. It's definitely Princess Bride for me, I think. Yeah, I think Princess Bride for me as well is definitely the one I've seen the most. When Rob Reiner died, I did go back and rewatch This Is Spinal Tap.
[00:05:42] Because I hadn't seen that since maybe I was in high school and, you know, had a great time rewatching that and also watched Spinal Tap 2, which was just released in 2025, like a few months before Rob Reiner died. And that is now his final film. And the Spinal Tap 2, I don't think is all that good, but I think it plays a lot more like bittersweet and sentimental in the wake of Rob Reiner's death.
[00:06:04] Like it feels like something that like, oh, I'm glad these guys got the chance to make this movie and reunite and do their thing and jam out with Paul McCarty and Elton John for, you know, all that stuff. You know, it definitely hit me more emotionally than it probably would have otherwise. Unfortunately, we're not talking about any of those movies. Oh, well.
[00:06:27] Instead, we are talking about the movie that pretty much brought that run to an end, a movie that was declared by Roger Ebert very famously as one of the worst movies ever made upon its release. And since Elijah Wood is in it, we've got to talk about North. The one thing that we cannot control in this life is who our parents are. You dealt the hand, you're stuck with it. Pants! That's what I know. I know pants. All kinds of pants. Please, I don't know. Oh, my God. Let me tell you something. Mom!
[00:06:56] It's not like baseball, where if you don't like the deal you have with one team, you can become a free agent and try to get a better deal with another team. Free agent, Shane. If you want my advice, go home, make up, and goodbye. I keep becoming a free agent than going around offering his services as a devoted son to the highest-fitting set of parents. I'm proud of you, kid. You got a lawyer? Let's get cracking.
[00:07:21] If he is not physically in the arms of either his new parents or his original parents by noon on Labor Day, he will be remanded to an orphanage. And if any of you has ever seen The Little Rascals, you know that's no day at the beach. So North was on his way to find the perfect parents. Well, hey! Howdy, North! I know what you're thinking. Big car, right? Everything I own is the biggest and the best. That's why we'd like you to become our son.
[00:07:50] Here you go, North. Nice cup of hot cocoa. And to go with that, our state dish, Eskimo pie. Hey, what do you know? The salmon are running. Sure, living in Paris would be great. But there's always a hitch. What, what, what do, what, what do? Meanwhile, things were heating up at home. Just because you were born 25 years before me doesn't make you smart. It doesn't make you right.
[00:08:20] It just makes you old. Aren't I naughty? It just makes you smell worse in the morning. You realize North will never pull this off. He's not. He can do anything. His folks are gonna fight it. Of course they are. They're not gonna take this line down. Find what you're looking for. Hey, it's you. Trust me. I'm not me.
[00:08:51] What are you? Some kind of guardian angel? Meister point. All right. So North began life as a 1984 novel called North, the tale of a nine-year-old boy who becomes a free agent and travels the world in search of the perfect parents, which smartly condensed the title for film. But that title does tell you everything you need to know about the,
[00:09:20] about the story, actually. Yeah, it's not an Italian jailer, so the title can't be a full sentence. Exactly, yes. The book was written by Alan Zweibel, who was one of the original writers on Saturday Night Live in the 70s, and also the co-creator of It's Gary Shandling Show. And he also co-wrote this movie's screenplay. The movie stars Elijah Wood in the title role as North, a kid who feels he's being neglected by his parents. So he decides to go to court and become a free agent searching for new parents.
[00:09:46] And now we've got to take a deep breath here because the rest of the cast is nuts. Stacked, yeah. A lot of people in this movie. Every favor from Rob Reiner's career got called in for North. So the major adults in this movie are John Lovitz as Arthur Belt, the lawyer who helps North and then becomes a pawn in the scheme of Winchell, who is the evil kid looking to take over the world. I will say, Winchell, I found pretty grating after a while, but I did like his first scene.
[00:10:13] Oh, yeah, when he's doing a His Girl Friday fast-talking newspaper man thing. Absolutely, yeah. And yeah, North says something like, he says something to the effect of like, it's like, oh, this will be my Pulitzer or whatever. And North is like, this is a two-page paper for 30 people. What are you talking about? All that stuff, which is great. And Bruce Willis is also in this movie. He is the narrator and appears as different characters throughout North's journey,
[00:10:39] including the Easter Bunny, Gabby, a tourist, a sleigh driver, and Joey Fingers, plus a FedEx driver, which interesting. I think this movie could have been like a career killer for Bruce Willis, like genuinely. I think it could have been, but Pulp Fiction was the same year, which is wild. Crazy. I mean, I can't believe anybody's career survived this movie. That is a good point. I think it could have been a career killer for Elijah Woods.
[00:11:06] I think he definitely smartly took some time off after this to, you know, recalibrate a little bit, become a little bit older and get back into movies. But we'll talk about that in a bit. North's parents are played by Jason Alexander and Julia Louis-Dreyfus in a Seinfeld reunion. This movie had the same production company. I think Rob Reiner was the producer of Castle Rock Entertainment. And so they produced Seinfeld. And I know that because I have the Seinfeld DVDs and would see the logo every time that the credits ended. From there, most people pop up in quick supporting roles throughout the movie.
[00:11:35] Like when people show up, it's usually for like five minutes and then they move on to the next thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very vignette-y movie. Yes. So Alan Arkin plays Judge Buckle. Dan Aykroyd and Reba McIntyre play Ma and Pa Tex. Kathy Bates and Graham Green play the Alaskan mother and father with Abe Vigoda as the grandfather. Keone Young from Deadwood and Lauren Tom from the Joy Luck Club. She's also the voice of Amy on Futurama. They play Mr. and Mrs. Ho out in Hawaii.
[00:12:04] Alexander Gordanoff and Kelly McGillis, who both starred in Witness, play the Amish father and mother, which I think is actually a pretty good in-joke. That's pretty funny. That's very funny. Yeah. I was like, aren't they the people from Witness? Like, wait a second. Yeah. What's funny is Kelly McGillis, like she's a relatively well-known person. She was in Top Gun. You know, she's in a lot of movies and she has no lines. She's just standing there. It's bizarre. The entire time. But I do think the Amish joke is maybe the funniest joke in the movie, actually. And that's a low bar to clear, but we'll talk about it. Yeah.
[00:12:33] John Ritter and Faith Ford from Murphy Brown. They play Ward and Donna Nelson, who are the nice parents in New York that North goes to towards the end of the movie. And their daughter, Lauren. I don't know if you saw this, Mike. Did you did you realize who their daughter, Lauren is? How could you miss Scar Jo in her first screen appearance? The film debut of eight year old Scarlett Johansson is right here in the film North, playing the daughter of these two of these two characters in New York. Insane. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:13:02] So from there, Ben Stein from Ferris Bueller. He pops up as the museum curator. Taylor Fry, who played John McClane's daughter in Die Hard, plays Zoe. Alana Austin from the Disney Channel movie Motocross, plays Sarah. Jussie Smollett from The Mighty Ducks and more recent controversies is, I guess, the way to say that. He plays Adam, who's the kid who, like, does, like, the Watergate thing with North, where. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which is that.
[00:13:29] Karmite Bashar, who would later be a member of the Pussycat Dolls, plays a cowgirl. Rosalind Chow from the Joy Luck Club in Freaky Friday. She plays a Chinese mother. Alan Rashins from L.A. Law plays a defense attorney. Richard Belzer from Law & Order is in this, playing the Barker in Alaska. Mark Shaman, who did the score for many of Rob Reiner's films, including this one, plays the piano player. And Alan Zweibel makes a cameo as North's baseball coach as well. So a deep roster of people popping up in this movie.
[00:13:56] Yeah, I think that's the one of the very few joys of this movie. Well, you know, it's like, oh, shit, it's that person? Yeah. It's the joy followed by the disappointment of being like, oh, shit, it's that person? Oh, no, they're in brownface? Like, that's the. Yeah. Yep. Yikes. That's the roller coaster ride that you go on with North. So this movie was written by Alan Zweibel and Andrew Scheinman, who produced many of Rob Reiner's films over the years.
[00:14:23] And it was directed by Rob Reiner two years after his previous film, A Few Good Men, and one year before his next movie, The American President. So sandwiched between Aaron Sorkin scripts, interestingly. Reiner continued directing, of course, throughout his career, though kind of rarely hit the highs of that legendary run. I will say the bucket list was a big hit and, you know, didn't get great reviews at the time. I saw it and remember liking it. I was 13 or 14, whatever it was. Yeah. But it was a big hit. And I think put that phrase on the map.
[00:14:50] Like the phrase, the bucket list didn't exist until that movie came out. I'm pretty sure I was just going to say, I think one of my favorite, like weird, fun facts, if I can remember it correctly, is that that movie originated the term bucket list, which is fucking insane. Yeah. Which is, you know, now a commonplace term, I think. But a movie that I think has largely been forgotten a little bit, but still culturally relevant as a result. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, of course, Rob Reiner's most recent and now final film was 2025's Spinal Tap 2, The End Continues.
[00:15:20] Which I saw and it's all right. There's a couple of decent jokes in there. I think I might have talked about this in like a discussions last year when I watched it. But there is one great joke that I think about all the time in Spinal Tap 2, which is when they're talking about like learning about something from Bruce Springsteen's memoir. And the title of the book is I am Springsteen going on Spreventeen. That's pretty good. I liked that a lot. That was pretty good.
[00:15:45] I remember there was talk about them doing some kind of extra like a Spinal Tap concert film that they also shot around the same time. Yeah. That I think was supposed to get some kind of release by now, and I don't think it has yet. So if that gets released, and I'm sure at some point it will, like I guess that would technically be Rob Reiner's final film. But Spinal Tap 2, for all intents and purposes, is pretty much the final film from Rob Reiner. So North was released on July 22nd, 1994, where it opened to eighth place at the box office.
[00:16:14] Did not do particularly well. Opening to number three. Do you have to guess, Mike? It's a film based on a John Grisham novel. There's so many. The Firm? I don't know. It's not The Firm. The Pelican Brief? It's not The Pelican Brief. Jesus Christ. I don't know the order that those movies. Christmas with the Cranks. No, I know that's one of the later ones. I forgot that was a John Grisham. A different vibe than his usual stuff. Yes, yes. No, I don't remember the other John Grishams.
[00:16:44] It was The Client, directed by Joel Schumacher from 1994. Okay. It was opening to number three. Opening to number seven was a family film, Mike. Do you want to take a guess at what this was? I'm going to need more than family film. A family film centered on a dog? All dogs go to heaven? I don't know. Nope. Not all dogs go to heaven. Not Beethoven. But you're in the ballpark. A famous dog. It's a very well-known dog. There's so many well-known dog movies. I guess.
[00:17:13] Based on a TV show as well, I think, if that helps. Oh. Was there a Lassie remake or whatever? Yeah. There was a movie version of Lassie that came out in 1994. Okay. And that beat out north of the box office and opened to number seven. Meanwhile, this was a packed movie summer, Mike. Okay. This is July 1994. Forrest Gump, number one in its third week at the box office. The rest of the top ten. True Lies. The Lion King. Angels in the Outfield. Speed. I Love Trouble and The Shadow.
[00:17:43] Imagine going to the theater and paying money to go see North when Speed and True Lies are in the theaters next to you. Even the Lion King. Like, you know, all those movies. That's crazy. Yeah, absolutely. The IMDb plot synopsis for North reads, sick of being neglected by his parents, a young boy leaves home and travels the world in search of new parents. So, Mike D, going into North, you, I feel like you didn't have as much context for what this movie was.
[00:18:12] I mean, I had, like, seen, like, you know, the Roger Ebert clips. I remember there was, like, a Nostalgia Critic review years ago. I think I watched North when I was in high school. Wow. I'm pretty sure I logged it as a rewatch on Letterboxd when I watched it again because I do think I have seen it before, but I can't remember if I actually watched the whole thing or if I just watched, like, a lot of clips of it or whatever it was. But I'm pretty sure I've seen the whole thing. I did forget a lot of it over the years.
[00:18:41] But I was familiar with North as a concept and it kind of killing the Rob Reiner run and all that kind of stuff. What was your context for North and what are your overall thoughts on this film? So, yeah, going into North, I don't think I had ever actually even heard of this movie until Rob Reiner's death and people started talking about that run. Yeah. You know, or that, like, kind of reentering the conversation and stuff and people talking about, like, yeah, and then, like, and then North. And I was like, oh, okay, I guess that's, like, a bad, you know, the bad one or whatever. Yeah.
[00:19:09] So, I never really heard of this movie. I don't think. I mean, probably somewhere in the past. But, yeah, no, it didn't stick at all. So, I wasn't really familiar. Before I started watching it, I was like, well, okay, it can't really, like, be that bad. You know, like, whatever. It's probably, compared to the other movie, like, yeah, compared to Princess Bride, like, well, it could stand up, right? Sure, yeah. You know, how could it be? And then I went on Letterboxd and I was just looking at some of the, like, reviews before I started watching it.
[00:19:37] And I think it was Matt Ryan or somebody. I think Matt Singer is the one you're talking about. Matt Singer, yeah. Yeah. Had, um, he's logged it twice and his second review is, I consider it a personal failing that I've seen this movie multiple times. And I was like, oh, boy. Yeah. Maybe it is that bad. Um, yep. So, then I just buckled up and was like, okay, I guess I'm gonna hit play now. I gotta watch it for the podcast. And, um, yeah, it is really that bad. It's terrible. It's crazy.
[00:20:07] See, it's crazy. I think, I think what makes it so much worse than other, like, bad movies is that it's a, it's still a Rob Reiner movie. Like, it still looks great. Like, you can tell there's so much, like, skill and craft and talent, um. Yeah. In this movie. And it just fails at every other level. And that just makes it so much, like, I'm not mad, I'm disappointed, you know? Sure. It's not like The Room or something like that, where it's like somebody who just clearly can't get a handle on this is just trying their hardest.
[00:20:35] It's like, no, all of the most professional, incredible people, look at that cast. Like, look at that. Oh, my God. Um, yeah. And it's just all so misguided and wrong and racist. And it's just nothing but stereotypes for two hours, basically. And, like, weirdly bleak and messed up and not that funny. There's a couple of funny segments or bits or whatever, but just, like, overall, none of the stuff really lands. It's just a rough sit, you know? Yeah.
[00:21:02] No, this movie obviously has a reputation that precedes it. And you mentioned Matt Singer's review, and I believe the reason Matt Singer watched it at least twice is because he was writing a book about Roger Ebert. He was doing, like, a big, like, Siskel and Ebert book and probably watched a lot of those films, like, you know, in context or whatever it was. But, yeah, honestly, like, the legacy of this movie is almost defined by the Roger Ebert review of this movie.
[00:21:27] Which I think speaks to the level of cultural impact that Siskel and Ebert had, that two film critics on TV had back in the 90s, which is crazy to think about. You know, like, as much as I love somebody like, you know, David Ehrlich or whatever, I think it would be very weird if, like, 20 years from now we're all referring back to his, like, Dune Part 2 review as, like, the definitive text on the film. You know? Right, right. But, yeah, no, Roger Ebert's review of North is incredibly famous.
[00:21:57] And I think it's famous because it is so different than a normal Roger Ebert review, which is normally, like, pretty composed. Like, even when he hates something, he's, you know, easy to get into the reasons why he hates it and all that stuff. And then his review, which he talks about on the show, but he was writing his review and just found himself writing the word hate over and over again. And the famous quote from Roger Ebert's review of North is, I hated this movie. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated this movie. Hated it.
[00:22:26] Hated every simpering, stupid, vacant, audience-insulting moment of it. Hated the sensibility that thought anyone would like it. Hated the implied insult to the audience by its belief that anyone would be entertained by it. Damn. And that's just, like, one segment of Roger Ebert's review, but that's been, like, widely circulated.
[00:22:45] And it, like, kind of defined Ebert in some ways, too, where, like, in, like, future publishings of his, like, he released a book that had a lot of, like, that was a compilation of all, like, his worst reviews. Like, all the reviews of movies that he hated. And the book was called I Hated, Hated, Hated This Movie. You know? Like, this is, like, it was an ongoing thing. And it became a famous thing where, like, a couple years after this movie came out, Rob Reiner was at a roast or something like that. And he, like, read aloud from Roger Ebert's review of North, like, at the roast.
[00:23:15] Like, that kind of thing. Richard Belzer, who's in the movie. Yeah, that's what it was. Richard Belzer, like, kind of goaded Reiner into reading the review. And Reiner had a good line where he was like, you know, if you read between the lines, it's not that bad. He seemed like a good sport about it, you know? Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, you know, I was kind of trying to look into, like, what led to the making of North. Like, why was North Rob Reiner's next film?
[00:23:42] And there really isn't that much about, like, the actual making of this movie from what I could find, which is weird. You would think there would be some kind of, like, oral history that I could kind of glean from. Like, somebody would have written something. And I haven't really found much. But Rob Reiner, like, has kind of defended the film over the years, you know, and was kind of saying, like, well, you know, I think some of the best jokes I ever had were in this movie. And, you know, I loved doing it, all that stuff. But he kind of looks at it as, like, he had just done a couple of, like, more serious movies.
[00:24:11] He had just done Misery. And he had just done A Few Good Men. And he was like, oh, I kind of want to do, like, a little fable, like The Princess Bride next, to kind of go back to my roots a little bit. And, yeah, I think he feels like there was a mix of audience expectations because he just made a few darker movies, like, that he should have done something like that or should be more important or something like that. And, you know, it never came together. The movie was nominated for several Razzies, if you can believe it.
[00:24:40] The upstanding people at the Razzies. Yes. But it was nominated for, I believe, six Razzie Awards, including Worst Picture. It did not win the Razzies, though. Actually, it lost Worst Picture to a movie called Color of Night, which I have not seen. An erotic thriller from 1994. Sure. Stars Bruce Willis. Worst Actor. Bruce Willis was nominated for both Color of Night and North. Wow. Rough year other than Pulp Fiction, like you said. Yeah, absolutely. No, it could have been rough.
[00:25:09] And then, yeah, Dan Aykroyd also nominated for Worst Supporting Actor for North. Kathy Bates nominated for Worst Supporting Actress in North. But again, none of them won, which is kind of surprising. Rob Reiner nominated for Worst Director, lost to Steven Seagal for On Deadly Ground, who I guess directed his own movie, and also nominated for Worst Screenplay. So it was nominated for six Razzies. It didn't win any of them. So even though it was clearly labeled, this is a bad movie, but it wasn't like, this is the worst of all time quite yet.
[00:25:38] It took a while for that to cement itself, you know? Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like I said, it's just misguided. And then the more you sit with it, you just get mad and more mad. Yeah. Like, how dare they have done this? Yes. And you know, when I went back to rewatch it this time around, I was kind of curious about it because it had been so long since I'd seen it. And obviously it has such a huge reputation and all of that stuff.
[00:26:04] And honestly, it's weirdly like a major pillar of the Elijah Wood career in some ways, right? So it's kind of, this is a major one that we got to talk about. And I went back and watched it and I was like, okay, I had just talked to you. You had rated it one star on Letterboxd. You're like, yeah, it is that bad. And I was like, I'm going to push play on this thing. And for the first like half hour, I was kind of like, this isn't that bad. I think for the first like half hour, like it's not great by any means, but like it skates by, it's okay.
[00:26:30] And then with every like successive new place that North goes to, you're just like, oh no, this is worse than it was five minutes ago. Oh no, it's worse now than it was five minutes ago. It just kind of keeps cratering as the movie goes on. And so you sort of have two movies playing out. One is North going to different like vignette stuff and like going to a new land, meeting the local stereotypes there and, and doing this thing.
[00:26:58] Meanwhile, the other side of the movie is Winchell and John Lovitz plotting to take over the world. Uh, like he's running John Lovitz for president and he's like the Machiavellian mastermind behind him. Yeah. Uh, and that is in theory, very funny. Like it's in theory, pretty good. I do think, uh, Winchell is not as strong of a child actor as Elijah Wood is perhaps, uh, is maybe the issue behind it or, you know, just, there's a lot of issues, a lot of things in this movie. And then I think, you know, this all kind of builds to a head.
[00:27:25] It turns into a weirdly dark, like film noir kind of thing in the last 20 minutes. Uh, and then it turns out it was all a dream and, and that was a real like, God damn it. Son of a bitch. Yeah. Like I'm already mad at this movie and now it's all a dream. And none of it happened. Oh my God. Yeah. So, uh, overall thoughts on North. Uh, it's not very good. It is, it is in fact a bad movie. Uh, it's, it's interesting that, uh, Ebert's review has like become the definitive text on it, but I think deservedly so.
[00:27:55] So, you know, it is a low down, dirty, rotten, bad movie, you know, and it's just, that's the reality of it. Yeah. But like you said, kind of like the kind of bad movie that only a great director could make. Yes, exactly. Uh, which I, which I think are always pretty interesting. Uh, cause every once in a while, like one of my favorite filmmakers will just make a movie that is so terrible that like, I can't get behind it. Uh, and it'll be like one of my least favorite movies that year or whatever. Uh, Steven Soderbergh, who I love, uh, made the laundromat a few years back.
[00:28:25] And that was like my least favorite movie of 2019 or whatever, whatever was came out. Yeah. Uh, you know, that was a movie I hated or, uh, Alexander Payne made downsizing, uh, which is such a terrible movie. It's, it's really, really bad. And even Steven Spielberg, you know, made like the BFG and ready player one and stuff like that. Right. Like, you know, great filmmakers can make bad movies. Uh, and sometimes they make like colossally bad movies, but in a way where it's like, you can still tell this is a Rob Reiner joint.
[00:28:52] You know, you could still tell like there's a great mind behind this. It's just, uh, it's in service of something that is not up to par with what he's done in the past. Yeah. I don't know if it's the script or what. I mean, I guess part of it is the script for sure, but yeah, just the whole, the whole thing just feels bad when they start, when they start getting like, yeah, like I think what you were saying, like in theory, that whole subplot with, with, uh, Winsoul and John Lovitz's character where it's like, you know, they're, they're using the legal precedent that
[00:29:22] North has set by being like declared a free agent from his parents as like the potential for a children's revolution and to, and to like sever the ties of power and like all this, like, you know, they turned it into this really crazy political, like thriller thing. And it just like goes nowhere. I don't know. Like, this is dumb. Yeah. Well, what's also really weird towards the end, there's like a bit where, you know, North has to be in his parents' arms by a certain time or else like the legal precedent,
[00:29:49] you know, or else, you know, he's declared a, he sent to an orphanage or something. Yes, exactly. And so he's racing against the clock to make it back to his parents and he makes it back to his house where Winsoul is waiting for him. And it turns out the parents are actually waiting by North's secret spot. Uh, but Winsoul tells him that. And it's like, why'd you tell him that? Yeah. Yeah. If you didn't tell him where the parents were, then, uh, your plot would go off successfully. You know, it's, it's very weird. And it's almost cause it's a dream anyway. So what's the, yeah, exactly.
[00:30:17] But Elijah Wood plays North. Yes. He is the main character. He is pretty much in every scene. Uh, that's not the stuff with Winsoul and John Lovitz, which is kind of happening off the side, but the main action of the movie driven by North, who is this like wonderkind kid. He's like, you know, the kid that every parent in the town like loves and wants their kid to be more like, uh, and you know, he's excelling in every aspect of his life. He's a star baseball player.
[00:30:43] He is like the lead of the, of his theater of like his theater troop in the school. Uh, there's a great cutaway bit where he's doing Fiddler on the roof, which is pretty funny. Yeah. Um, uh, you know, all the, all of that stuff. Uh, but his parents are workaholics and they don't have enough time to like pay attention to him. And, uh, he finally gets fed up with it and decides to sue them and basically go for emancipation. Like that's all he's asking for. The movie never says the word emancipation weirdly. Weirdly. Yeah, no, I agree with that.
[00:31:11] But it's like, it's, it's, that's the fun, like weird, like cartoon world where like, it's all from North's point of view. And like, he doesn't know that word, but he's a big baseball kid. So he knows free, what free agency is. Right. And this like weird, you know, Looney Tunes world that this exists, this, this like all takes place in, you know? Yes. So what did you think of Elijah Wood in North, Mike? I think he's pretty good. I think mostly Elijah Wood innocent because, you know, he's like what, uh, 13 or something or 12.
[00:31:40] Something like that. Yeah. When they're making this movie and there's so many other adults around him that should have been like, Hey. We should have known better. Yeah. To be part of this. Yeah. They should have guided him better. Um, yeah. But, uh, yeah, I think he's like convincing. I think that, that beginning part of it is pretty fun where he is the, the wunderkind, you know, and he's doing all this stuff. And then when he like loses his mojo and, and there's the other cutaway bit to him trying to do the shit, the Hamlet to be or not to be speech.
[00:32:07] And he's like to be or not line. And he like, he just, he doesn't, and, and, and all that stuff. And he's striking out and all those things is fun. Um, and yeah, I think, I think he's, you know, doing the best he can being put up against, you know, we, we talked about this a little bit in some of the other movies where it's, you know, uh, Elijah Wood and it's Mel Gibson or whoever, uh, what's the guy's name from Miami vice? Why can't I remember? Don Johnson. Don Johnson, right. And Melanie Griffin.
[00:32:37] And in this, it's, we look at that cast. Uh, it's, you know, it's Dan Hackeroy and Reba and Kathy Bates and all these people and, and 13 year old Elijah Wood like, Whoa, that's pretty cool. So yeah, I think, I think he's doing his best. It's just that the movie around him is just, you know, what, what can he, what can he do? You know? I think he's doing what he's required to do based on what the movie is. I think, and unfortunately the movie sets it up where because it's all North's dream, it now makes it feel like, Oh, so North is the most racist kid alive.
[00:33:07] Yeah. Right. Oh man. I never even thought of that. Yeah. Uh, which is, uh, unfortunate, but yeah, no. So I think, I think Elijah Wood is solid in this, you know, it just kind of given the material that he has to work with. I think he is kind of keyed into the movie's like fairly manic tone. Yeah. Uh, pretty well. Uh, you know, and that's the weird thing. I think the movie is going for a pretty manic tone that it doesn't quite hit all the time. And so sometimes it feels very sluggish. Sometimes it feels very fast paced. Yeah.
[00:33:36] Uh, and you're kind of just bouncing between a lot of different tones and ideas. Uh, like there's the, uh, the Amish joke in the movie, which again is, I think the funniest thing just because of how quickly Elijah Wood delivers this line and then the plane like flies away. Yeah. Uh, but you know, he doesn't even step down off the plane. He's just like, Oh, let me get my bag. I've always dreamed of world electricity. Goodbye. Uh, like that kind of thing. Uh, so when it's like kind of working in that register, there's, there's something here and it's just doesn't usually work in that register. I guess. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:34:05] I mean, like there's the sort of stuff with, I mean, you know, just the heightened reality of it all. It's like almost like a Bo's afraid or set first or something like that. Like when, uh, literally John Lovitz is in as the lawyer is introduced, literally chasing an ambulance in his car and he sees North on the side of the road and slams on his brakes and stops chasing the ambulance. Like, yeah. Hilarious. Uh, his name is something belt, right? I think is his name. Arthur belt. Yes. Arthur belt. And Alan Arkin is, is judge buckle. Like that's hilarious.
[00:34:35] Like stuff like that's going on. Um, Dan Aykroyd and Rebo, when they pick them up from the airport, their, their limo is like a mile long and they have like a fireplace and big armchairs, like inside the limo and stuff. Like when it's doing that kind of thing, I'm like, Oh, this is pretty fun. But then we pivot into a musical number and I was like, okay. All right. I mean, a musical number about how their son died. Yeah. Like it was killed in stampede. Insane. We can, we can, we can chill on that. And then all the other, you know, uh, stereotype stuff.
[00:35:02] So there's moments of like, like I said, like glimpses of like, Oh, this is a kind of fun, like heightened cartoon, which makes sense with the dream stuff by the end where you're like, Oh, that's why everything is so outlandish. When it's operating in that, that kind of mode. Sometimes it's fun, but I don't know what the, what the, it's not an, it's not, the hit rate is too low for it to be like worth it to be like, Oh, I can suffer through this 30 minutes of just like cringing, um, for a one or two good jokes every now and then. Yeah. For every joke that hits, there's probably like 50 that don't.
[00:35:31] And it's just like, yeah, no, this is kind of rough, but yeah, you do spend. So North spends a lot of time, like going to different families throughout the movie. And so it's like you said, it's like a five, 10 minute vignette for each one. Uh, and so for the first few you get, you get pod, my text with Dan, I cordon, Reba, uh, where he's in Texas and they're going through like, everything's bigger in Texas. You know, the big limo, big mansion, all that stuff. Next place you go, I think is Alaska. And so that is where, uh, it's Kathy Bates and Graham green and it's Kathy Bates and Brown
[00:36:01] face. Uh, and they do this thing with, uh, Abe Fagoda being the grandfather who is, uh, you know, too old and weak to contribute to society anymore. So they cast him off on an ice flow and send him off, send him off to die with dignity. Yeah. Uh, all that stuff. So it's kind of playing into those stereotypes too. Also, again, it's Kathy Bates and Brown face. She apparently did not want to do the movie. Oh no. Uh, according to her and she felt that she owed it to Rob Reiner because she won an Oscar for misery. Uh, it was kind of a thing.
[00:36:30] She, she was in misery. She was obviously huge in that movie, won an Oscar for it and felt like she owed him a favor. At least that's what she says now, like in the post North world. Uh, that's what she says about it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. I'm sure, you know, but yeah. And as soon as that sequence starts, I was watching this with some friends, which is pretty funny because, um, I was like, you know, this is notoriously one of the worst movies ever. And I just like, don't want to watch this. And my friends were like, we'll do it with you. Like, we'll, we'll, we'll do it together. And I was like, okay, great.
[00:36:59] So instead of just wasting like 90 minutes of my time, I like collectively wasted like eight hours of, you know, 90 minutes times, however many people were watching the movie. Um, but, uh, as soon as that sequence starts and it gets to like, he like, right. I forget. He lands, they'd land the plane or whatever. And he rides the like dog sled to the like neighborhood. And it's all, it's like suburban white picket fence, but with igloos, you know? And it's like, that's like kind of a funny visual gag. And the guy's like mowing the lawn, but it's a snowblower and like all this kind of stuff.
[00:37:29] And it's like, uh, boy, we are all just sort of like, oh no, it's going to be, how many times are they going to say not Inuit? To have now learned is a slur and all this stuff. Uh, and then Kathy Bates shows up in brown face and we're like, nah, yes, it was a rough one. That is unfortunate. Uh, you know, and, and this was one of the only bits in the movie I did remember, which is when they're ice fishing, like in the house, like there's, you know, and they're fishing
[00:37:57] and they sit, they start like whistling the Andy Griffith theme song. Right. Uh, and that just kind of happens and it's like, okay, sure. Why? Yeah. Why not? Um, but it's like this like bonding moment between North and the two parents and stuff like that. And he's getting along with them well until he realizes that, uh, they cast their old out to die. Yeah. In eight Vigoda clearly doesn't want to go, you know, it's played for laughs. Uh, and it's kind of like the concept is kind of funny, but it's just, it's one of those things that like, yeah, it doesn't work.
[00:38:24] And Richard Bells are being the guy who is like, all right, come on, moving, moving. Is it like that kind of thing is again, kind of funny, but doesn't quite get there. And there's a lot of things in this movie where like, I could see why this could be funny in theory. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the execution just isn't there and it's veering too close to racist to get, to get in there. And so you have this Alaska segment. And then I think right after that's the Hawaii segment, uh, where you meet Mr. and Mrs. Ho. This I think has some of the, the jokes that fall the deadest for me is the, uh, it's
[00:38:52] this one bit where they're like, uh, parasailing or something. And he's like, Oh, and if you go to college in Hawaii, you'll do very well here. And it's like, Oh, why do you say that? It's like, well, uh, you, we only have 12 letters in our alphabet, so we don't have B, C, D or F. So you're pretty much guaranteed to get straight A's. And it's just like that for like five minutes. And it's just like, God damn it. Yeah. This sucks. The only thing that's not fertile in this Island is my wife. Like, holy shit. Like, God damn. Yes.
[00:39:21] Uh, and he's like the governor of the Island or something. He's the governor. They try to make North like a mascot, uh, to make people travel. And it's like this weird, like billboard thing. That's like playing off of the suntan lotion. The copper tone baby. Yeah. Yeah. The copper tone baby. And so it's a billboard that has like North ass crack, uh, like viewable, uh, which Elijah would saying my crack over and over again is kind of funny again, but it's just one of those things. It's like, this is baffling. Why is this? That's what I was talking. Like that was when I had the realization of like, Oh, I think I'm mostly Elijah would
[00:39:50] innocent because there's too many adults around to not have been like, do we really need to put his crack? Like, do we need to have that be the whole thing? You know? Uh, and, and they let it happen. Yeah. Uh, and so they go through like those three families and then it's mostly like quicker vignettes. I feel like it's like more montage stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And so you do the quick Amish joke. You have like a montage where like North goes to Africa and they do like, uh, uh, which is just like, could have been honestly could have been a lot worse. Yeah. That's true.
[00:40:17] When they got to Africa, I was, I was pulse pounding. Like what's going to happen here? Uh, and it said it's, it's a, it's a topless national geographic joke basically. Right. Yeah. Uh, where they get to the tribe and he sees it, sees a woman's breasts and he's like looking at him like, Oh, you guys seem like very nice people, but I don't think I get a lot of homework done around here. Yep. Like, okay, sure. I guess. Fine. Whatever. And they do a couple more like that until he finally ends up in New York with like the normal family, quote unquote. Right.
[00:40:47] Yeah. Yeah. And it's John Ritter is the dad. So it's, you know, he's a good guy. America's dad. Yes. And Scarlett Johansson's the daughter and he gets along with them and all that stuff. But yeah, no, it's a, it's an escalating series of events that just really goes nowhere. And every single one just like gets worse. It's a weird thing where like, like you thought it was bad in the Texas segment. Wait until the Alaska segment. Yeah. You thought it was bad there. Wait till you get to the Hawaii segment. You know? Yeah.
[00:41:13] And then, and then that, then this part of the movie after the New York thing or during that segment is when the, like the, uh, world domination stuff starts to rear its head. And, and, you know, you find out that Winsel has, uh, they've put North's parents in a museum because they've been in like a joint coma, coma together. Yeah. Um, the second that the news broke, uh, through Winchell's story, uh, for like his newspaper story that like, ah, North, cause that's how they find out the news, right?
[00:41:41] They see it in like the, the local paper that Winchell publishes, uh, that North is like excommunicating from his parents. They see that and immediately fall backwards and like both go into a catatonic state. And they are like that for months afterward. Yeah. It's almost the whole movie. Um, including during the trial where they do get to do a, your honor, the defense rests. Yeah. Pretty funny. Then they wake up and they're like, are we going to record a message to their son and, and Winsel edits it.
[00:42:11] So it looks like they're saying, ask them a bunch of questions that are not what you hear in the tape so that they, uh, are like, no, that's not our son. No, we don't want him back. You know, all this kind of stuff. Uh, and so they trick North into thinking they don't want to come back and blah, blah, blah. Uh, and then, and then this is where it just kind of like completely leaves us there. There's none of it. It's just like hit men being hired to kill North. Yeah. People are firing on Elijah Wood in the middle of the street. Yeah. It's crazy. Uh, yeah, it's nuts. But yeah, so they have this New York segment where he's getting along with the family,
[00:42:40] but he ultimately realizes he wants to go back to his real family. And so he goes and does that. Uh, and you know, that, that's when he's like racing against time, trying to make it back there while hit men are trying to take North out. Uh, there's a scene where one like Al, I think the hit man, um, thinks he shot Elijah Wood in the truck. Uh, and it turns out if it's borscht, it's not blood that's on his hat. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, all that stuff. He FedExes himself home. Yes, exactly. Uh, and throughout all this, by the way, Bruce Willis is like popping up and every, every
[00:43:08] different segment playing a different character every time. Uh, or is he, or is he this like metaphysical creature? You know, that's the weird thing is that despite the fact that it is all a dream in the end, uh, North does have the coin that, uh, cowboy Bruce Willis gave to him, uh, in the dream. So it's like, was it all a dream? I don't know. Yeah. I think there is one funny bit. They kind of like, uh, the, the secret spot, right. That whole thing, uh, where he's going to go there and it turns out to be like a, a, like,
[00:43:35] uh, showroom floor, lazy boy at like a department store, uh, kind of thing. But there's this long segment of him, like running away from the baseball field off into the woods and he's going to go, I've gone into my secret spot. And it's like all these other places that would be secret spots in other movies. Like he goes past a tree house and he goes like under a bridge and he goes, and I was like, I, when that was happening, I was like, Oh my God, is this going to be the fourth tree house movie in a row? Like that we're watching for these between the paradise. Uh, okay. Yep.
[00:44:03] Radio flyer, radio flyer of a tree, radio flyer. Um, the one with Mel Gibson. Oh, forever young. Forever young. And then this one, when he's walking past there, Oh, and the good son, I think has a tree house thing. The good son. Yeah. Elijah would likes to dangle from large places. And I was like, what the hell? And then it's like, Oh, they actually, that's actually a pretty good fake out that he's going past all these other places and then just into the mall to go to the lazy boy. Um, yeah, that's the thing.
[00:44:29] And it, it, it's such a weird thing where Rob Reiner, of course, you know, son of Carl Reiner close with Mel Brooks, I think is very much in that like Borscht belt style of, uh, like extremely Jewish, like seventies, eighties humor, all that stuff should work. Like that stuff usually works for me, you know, I'm usually in on that. And I feel like that's why I'm like, I don't think I'm being that generous to this movie. I think it's a bad movie, but I feel like I'm being as generous as I am because I can
[00:44:56] see the intent behind some of these jokes where I'm like, okay, yeah, no, I could see why this would be funny. Unfortunately, it's not in the context of this movie. Yeah. Missed it by that much. Yeah. Uh, how do you think this fits into the Elijah Woodrow scene so far, Mike? I mean, you just mentioned some press, some past treehouse movies. Yeah. I mean, it's, and I think those movies are probably all the, the other besides just the treehouse of it all, but the kind of coming of age journey stuff, you know, like we talked about
[00:45:22] paradise and, and the good son, I guess that's a little less of a coming of age story, but radio flyer and, uh, you just said it, the Mel Gibson one. Why can't I remember? Forever Young. Forever Young. Yeah. All those kinds of movies, you know, kind of a parental turmoil coming of age kind of stuff. And it's, that's been a pretty recurring theme through almost all of these movies that we've done the first, you know, 10, 11 movies, almost, uh, even, even the child of the night
[00:45:46] and internal affairs, um, his segments, at least internal affairs, uh, has that, uh, going on. So yeah, I think that's like the common theme, which makes sense. You know, what else are you going to have a dramatic kid actor be in a movie about? Right. Yeah. I think of all the movies we've talked about so far, the one that reminds me the most of is Huck Finn. Oh yeah. I mean, of course Huck Finn. Yeah. You know, which is also an extremely like vignette-y movie, right? As you know, it's a movie about, you know, kind of him getting into a series of misadventures
[00:46:13] also dealing with racism, but at least that's like, you know, the folk, that's, that's what Huck Finn's about. It's not like, it's not like the jokes that the movie is making necessarily. That's just casually racist. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Uh, and it, that is kind of the first movie that like really put Elijah Wood like totally front and center on his own. Um, you know, as like, as like the lead build star, uh, whereas a lot of those other movies like forever young, it's like, Oh, this is a Mel Gibson movie and Elijah Woods, the kid in it. Right. Yes. Yes. Or paradise is like, it's a Don Johnson, Melanie Griffith movie and Elijah Woods, the kid in it.
[00:46:42] He's, he's like co-lead of those movies, but you know, there is like a larger name, adult name attached to it. Yeah. Uh, whereas Huck Finn, uh, Tim and Courtney B Vance playing Jim, right. Who, uh, you know, but who was also not really like a name at the time or anything like that. And so, you know, he's, he is Huck Finn. He's the star of that movie. Similarly, he's the star of North and this one's going for a much like wackier tone than Huck Finn is, but I think is, is also trying to be like a fun kid's adventure. Like Huck Finn is trying to do. Yeah. And, uh, yeah.
[00:47:11] So I think in a, in terms of like the Elijah Wood roles, it sort of feels like, okay, you did Huck Finn. You can do North. You got this kid. Like that kind of thing. Yeah. I mean, I can definitely imagine like on paper too, you know, it's like, it's Rob Reiner. He's making a kid adventure movie. Like, of course you're in getting like, yes, do anything to get that role. And then it ends up being North and that's rough. You know, it is, uh, rough, which is unfortunate. What are the other scenes or moments to stand out to you? Like anything else in North that we feel that we haven't mentioned yet? Let me see.
[00:47:38] I'm trying to think if I can remember any, cause it's been so long since I watched the movie. I know that's my fault. Uh, we, uh, we are recording a little bit, uh, like a week later than we meant to. Uh, and Mike had already watched it when I pushed the podcast recording, which normally wouldn't be a problem except this movie is so bad that I've just like, get it out of here. Delete, delete, delete. Trying to purge it from your memory. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think we've had all the really big, uh, moments that stand out to me. I mean, like we said that, that first, uh, Winsel scene when he's, when North
[00:48:08] is going to like his friends and telling them his plan and stuff. Uh, and Winsel is running this newspaper office and he's got the green translucent hat and the bands on his sleeves and he's running around like, you know, like it's his girl Friday or whatever. Um, that's, that's fun. That's a fun bit. I liked that bit. Uh, if that was the only Winsel scene, it'd be great. Yeah. That was, I thought that was going to be it. I didn't realize Winsel was going to be like the secondary kid lead, uh, who, who is the evil mastermind behind all of this. So that's fun. Um, what else is there?
[00:48:36] I think that's really it for me that stands out that I can think of. Yeah. I mean, I, I want to give a shout out to Jason Alexander and Julia Dreyfuss. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As a big Seinfeld guy, it's very fun to see them pop up, uh, together in this movie. Uh, and I do think they are fun. Like they, in their, they're not in that much of it. You know, they're in like the opening scene and you see them at work where like George is, uh, I say George chase, Jason Alexander is like the pants salesman and he's like worried about his, worried about his boss. Who's like a pants tester.
[00:49:06] Like, I think that's really funny. Like that whole guy concept is really funny. Yeah. So you get that and you have like Jason Alexander, like, you know, he's just doing George. He's like doing the blow up. Like, Oh, I'm getting upset. Like they'll see what they'll see. Uh, like that kind of thing. Uh, which is very, very fun. And so it's seeing like the two of them in this movie together. Uh, and then they are knocked out for most of it. Like they're just like not in for a lot of it. But I also do like when, uh, they are recording a video to get North home and Winchell is like
[00:49:34] tricking them into being like, uh, it's like, Oh, do you want, you know, candy or whatever? And he's like, no, I don't want that. Uh, or whatever. And that was the clips he's using. So when he's like dubbing in his voice, it's like, don't you want to see North again? And Julia Dreyfuss is like, eh, whatever. Yeah. No, I'm good. Yeah. That's a fun bit. Yeah. So all that's fun. Um, you know, and then they're in the climax of the movie as well when they're waiting for North at the furniture store and all that. And North is being chased down by a gunman.
[00:50:01] And I think gets shot right before the dream, right before he wakes up. Right. Or he's like, I think that's why he wakes up. Yeah. He gets shot. Yes. He, he gets shot. Strict as a judge. And he's there like at a judge's desk at the, at the store looking, waiting for them so he could confirm it's real. Like that whole thing. Yes. All of that. Yeah.
[00:50:27] Otherwise, uh, the stuff in New York, uh, you know, it's fun to see North with, uh, the normal family with John Ritter and, uh, all that stuff and him kind of connecting and all that. I think Elijah would plays that stuff pretty well. It's so funny. John Lovitz and Winchell are getting massages. Yeah. I was so, I was so scared that they were going to make a certain kind of massage joke. Sure. Yeah. With him, but they don't, uh, thank God. But, um, I think it's very funny too, to see Scarlett Johansson in this with Elijah Wood.
[00:50:56] Um, because I think they're great together, you know, the couple of scenes they have, but it's like, they're, they don't do not occupy the same space in my mind as movie stars. Like that are contemporaries to each other at all, you know, where it's like, you know, the good son, it's like Macaulay Culkin and Elijah Wood. Yeah. Makes sense. Totally. But like Scarlett Johansson and Elijah Wood, like what? Yeah. I mean, it's weird that, uh, yeah, Elijah Wood is, I guess, four years older than Scarlett Johansson.
[00:51:24] So theoretically they are, they are of the same generation kind of, but, but this feels like night and day and, you know, and Scarlett Johansson is a great way to do it. Scarlett Johansson like doesn't become famous until like the early two thousands, I feel like, right? Like I feel like, yeah, I know she's in the man who wasn't there, which is 2001. And that is the same year as Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring. Um, but that's like a very early Scarlett Johansson role. I feel like. Yeah. What's that movie? Um, undecided.
[00:51:50] Is that, is she in that movie where they like steal the, they make, Oh, is it that movie where they steal the SATs? What's that movie? Oh, you're thinking of, uh, I know what movie you're talking about and I'm also blanking on it. I think I'm mixing two movies up. Undecided is where they make the fake college. I think, right? Oh, you're thinking of accepted. That's the one where they make the fake college, which accepted great film. Uh, big, big fan. Yeah. Yeah. Of accepted. Uh, the one where they make up the SATs. Oh, the perfect score. That's what you're thinking of. Yes. Which has her and Chris Evans. And Chris Evans.
[00:52:20] Right. That's what I was trying to remember. Yeah. You know, a pre-Marvel joint, but that's 04. Uh, so yeah, Scarlett Johansson, her early career. She's in North, which is her film debut. She's in a movie called Just Cause in 1995 with Sean Connery and Lawrence Fishburne. There's If Lucy Fell, Manny and Lowe. In 1997, Scarlett Johansson is in Home Alone 3. Wow. Yeah. Playing, I guess, the younger sister or something of, uh, of the main kid who is not Macaulay Culkin. It's a different kid in Home Alone 3.
[00:52:48] Uh, the older sister of the main kid, uh, who is played by Alex D. Lins, who is later Max Keeble in Max Keeble's Big Move. What? It's the best movie. Why does that come up more than one time in this podcast? Yeah. I was just re-listening to our, uh, Back to the Future Part 2 episode because we just released that one. Uh, and like, I think one of the characters, I think the guy who replaced Crispin Glover is the guy who played McGooble's Max Keeble's Big Move. Yeah, that was it. That's why that came up. Yes, yes. Um, but yeah, Scarlett Johansson's in Home Alone 3. And then, yeah, it's the Horse Whisperer is also 98.
[00:53:16] And I feel like that's also- I think that's her big one, yeah. That's kind of the bigger, or the breakout thing. But then, you know, she transitions to adult stuff pretty quickly. And then it's like Man Who Wasn't There and Ghost World, uh, Lost in Translation in 2003. Uh, and then it's, yeah, the perfect score. Uh, she's in the SpongeBob SquarePants movie in 04. I feel like that's probably the first Scarlett Johansson movie I ever saw. I think Perfect Score was the first one I saw, but I didn't realize Lost in Translation was so early in her career because that's obviously a major-
[00:53:45] Yeah, and that's kind of like the big one that kind of announces like, oh yeah, she's like a real actress kind of thing, I feel like at that point. Uh, and then, yeah, she's in like, I think Matchpoint was kind of a bigger, that was a Woody Allen joint in 05. She was in a couple of those. She has The Prestige. Uh, she's in Vicky Cristina Barcelona. That's a big one. And yeah, and then, you know, she joins the MCU in 2010 and kind of goes off from there. She is, I do think, like one of the only like major MCU stars that has proven like
[00:54:12] actual like box office pull beyond the MCU, it feels like, right? Yeah, well, I guess, I guess I think, I mean, I guess it's just the weird, uh, peaks of their careers is, you know, obviously the Lord of the Rings for Elijah Wood, but then he goes off and does his weird Elijah Wood genre with shit, uh, which is great. Yeah. And Scarlett Johansson's been in the MCU for 10 years. She's just in more stuff. She's pretty much out of it now. At this point. Yeah, I know. Yeah, she, she kind of, there was a pretty highly publicized, like her suing Disney. Remember when Back to Black Widow came out?
[00:54:41] Oh my God, I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, uh, and I think that's done now and I'm sure if they drove enough money to her house, she'll pop up in Avengers Doomsday or something. But like, uh, you know, she is doing blockbuster stuff still. Obviously she was just in the new Jurassic world last year. Right. Uh, but she is also popping up in like Wes Anderson movies, right? She was in asteroid city and Isle of dogs. And, uh, of course she was, uh, in marriage story and Jojo rabbit. Uh, she was in hail Caesar. Remember hail Caesar? Uh, I've actually never seen hail Caesar. What? Oh man. I'm gonna put that on the list.
[00:55:11] If I haven't already, uh, I like hail Caesar a lot. I'm actually listening to the, uh, blank check episode on hail Caesar. Like as we speak, that's my, that's my current thing. Um, but yeah, obviously she's in a lot of great movies and I think is one of our bigger movie stars. Uh, and, uh, this year she's got two movies coming out. She's in James Gray's new movie. Oh, that's exciting. Uh, she's in a paper tiger from James Gray with Adam driver. It's a marriage story reunion, I guess. Um, but yeah, she also directed her first movie last year too.
[00:55:38] Eleanor the Great, which I have not seen, but that was with a June squib. Uh, which I remember seeing stuff about. Um, but yeah, but she popped up in asteroid city and Phoenician scheme and all that stuff. So I think she's done a pretty good job of like doing the blockbuster stuff, doing the MCU stuff. She's still doing it with Jurassic world. She's going to be in a Mike Flanagan's exorcist movie. Uh, which interesting, but has still been doing kind of, you know, the indie stuff where she can popping up in Wes Anderson movies and all that.
[00:56:03] So, uh, yeah, I think of the, the MCU actors, I think she has had like one of the healthier outside of the MCU careers, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. No, I agree with that. I'm trying to even think of who else would come close. Uh, yeah. I mean, since MCU, you know, since MCU, I, you know, a part of me wants to say Downey just because of Oppenheimer. Yeah. However, he's going back to the MCU for, uh, you know, there's that, uh, and you look
[00:56:30] at like the Chris Evans career post MCU and, uh, you know, Chris Evans, an actor who I think both of us like a lot when he's great. Uh, you know, obviously you got sunshine. He's amazing in knives out. He's great in, uh, and knives out was like the same year as end game. And it really felt like, all right, this is it. Chris Evans, he's back in a big way. Uh, and it's been like awful streaming shit for the last like five years, you know? And then last year he kind of had a more interesting stuff, I guess he had materialists and a honey
[00:56:56] don't, uh, which I kind of like both of those movies, but neither one was as successful as I would like them to be. Uh, you know, and now of course he's coming back for doomsday as well. Hemsworth, uh, Hey, he just had crime one-on-one. He's doing it right. Yeah, he did. What a picture. Yeah. Crime one-on-one rocks. Uh, and then Ruffalo is always kind of just popping up, uh, in other stuff here and there too. Uh, also, also in crime one-on-one. Actually. Uh, if you're in crime one-on-one, your career is doing just fine.
[00:57:25] Uh, that's my, you are doing well. That's a good, a good barometer. You're right. Nick Nolte doing great right now. Yeah, exactly. Uh, otherwise any, what else about North Mike? Any last things about this movie that you feel like we need to talk about? No, it really is that bad. It's, it's crazy. It's crazy. Like I said, like, you know, you're watching something, I don't know. The room, I guess is like the kind of prototypical, like quintessential version of like a bad movie, but that, uh, you know, that's like there's, there's, I don't know.
[00:57:55] I think there's not enough competent people in the room, like involved. I mean, obviously they're fine. They're whatever. It's fine. Sure. Yeah. But you know, everyone that's on the, like a list top of their game that everyone involved in North is should have realized what was happening. Like somebody else should have been able to save this movie, uh, basically. And it just, it's, I'm not mad. I'm disappointed. Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, I'm going to go down. So obviously we mentioned this was nominated for six Razzies did not win any of them.
[00:58:21] Uh, it was also nominated for two awards, uh, for the, at the stinkers, bad movie awards. Okay. Uh, and it won worst picture and worst actor for Bruce Willis, but it did, it was nominated for a couple of other awards. Uh, it was nominated in the young artist awards where Elijah Wood was nominated for best performance by a youth actor starring in a motion picture. Okay. Uh, and he did not win that, but in another category, uh, best performance by a young actor
[00:58:47] co-starring in a motion picture, uh, Matthew McCurley, who plays Winchell won the award for North. Interesting. Good for him. You know? Yes. Good for him. I'm glad he won the young artist award. Uh, and then finally, uh, Elijah Wood also nominated for Saturn award, uh, for this movie as well for best performance by a younger actor, uh, which I think we talked about with the good son, I think was the one where he was also nominated for that too. Right. I think so. I think you're right. Yeah. Yes. And actually he won for the good son. Uh, he won for the good son. Here is who was nominated.
[00:59:17] Oh, that's interesting. Maybe Wikipedia is lying to me. Uh, okay. Uh, because when I go to the, uh, Wikipedia entry for the Saturn award for best performance by younger actor, I don't see Elijah Wood in the 1994. Oh wait, no, here it is. Okay. It is there. Uh, so 94, Elijah Wood nominated for North. He did not win. Okay. Do you want to guess who won or who the other nominees were? 94. 94. For the Saturn best kid award or whatever you said? For the Saturn best performance by a younger actor award in 1994, the award which Elijah
[00:59:47] Wood had won the previous year for the good son. I have no idea. I haven't thought about the Saturn awards in any serious way at all. Um, other than I just happened to watch Mortal Kombat 2 today starring Carl Urban as Johnny Cage, which name checks the Saturn awards. Oh really? Yeah. He squares up in one of his fights. He's like, be careful. I'm a Saturn award best action film star award winning guy. Nice. Like that's a really funny poll in a movie.
[01:00:13] Um, yes, but, uh, I have no idea who, who won in 94. Uh, the winner of the 94 Saturn award for best performance by younger actor was, uh, someone who we have considered for the complete works in the past, uh, Kirsten Dunst, uh, for her role in interview with the vampire. Yeah. Uh, in 94. The other nominees were Luke Edwards for little big league, uh, Joseph Gordon-Levitt for angels in the outfield, Miko Hughes for Wes Craven's new nightmare and, uh, Jonathan Taylor
[01:00:41] Thomas as the voice of young Simba in the lion King. Whoa. Yeah. So, uh, stiff competition there. I feel like Kirsten Dunst probably deserved it. Yeah. So there it is. But, uh, all right. Should we move on to letterbox reviews, Mike? Should we see what the people have to say for North? Yes. I'm, I wonder if any of them come close to Roger Ebert's. Uh, I'm going to say no, they don't. They don't. A couple, a couple of them do reference, uh, Roger Ebert's review though. Uh, and the first one is actually Matt Singer with a one star review.
[01:01:08] So I knew, I figured you would might reference his second one, but this is the first review that Matt Singer logged, uh, for North. This one started and for a while I didn't think it really lived up or down to its reputation as one of the most putrid works in film history. Certainly it wasn't good for sure. It was not funny, but come on. The cast was impressive. The images were in focus. Uh, it, it wasn't that bad. And then Dan Aykward and Bupa McIntyre showed up as two cartoonish Texas stereotypes in glitter and sequins.
[01:01:37] And then they sang him a song about their dead son who died in a stampede. Then there was a whole scene built around jokes involving North's crack. Then, then Kathy Bates shows up playing an Inuit woman who sends her father, Abe Vigoda, off on an ice floe to die with honor. Things continued south from there. Ebert wasn't kidding. Yeah. Yeah. That sums it up. Yeah, pretty much. Uh, here is another review without a rating from Ren, which reads, it's not that bad. It has its charms.
[01:02:06] So it's a bit racist here and there. And the twist at the end deserves a prison sentence and I hate it and it sucks, but it's fine. Damn. Yeah. Here is a two and a half star review from Penny, uh, which reads the purest evidence that Rob Reiner was beloved by all. He clearly called up a bunch of friends to show up for two or three days of work apiece. And everyone said, sure. Jason Alexander and Julie Louis-Dreyfus, both at the peak of their Seinfeld cred, agreed to do this on their summer hiatus.
[01:02:36] Richard Belzer was the guy who pushed Abe Vigoda and his ice encrusted eyebrows out to see Graham Greene, Kathy Bates, Dan Aykroyd, John Ritter, and on and on and on. But it's not good. It's not god awful, but it is a misfire. Reiner clearly wanted to capture that princess bride magic again by doing something whimsical and over the top, but it ends up feeling by turns both wooden and weirdly smarmy. I could talk about the hats though. When you're doing a bunch of broad cultural characterization for fun, there's a lot of room to move, hats-wise.
[01:03:03] Elijah Wood wears no less than three different cowboy hats in the Texas sequence. And thank Christ that when Ackroyd and Reuben McIntyre burst into song, that was the only time. I'm not sure this quite hits great hats and cinema levels, but the wide variety kept me interested. You're not me though, so unless you have childhood nostalgia around this, you'll probably just be like, Jesus, is it over yet? Wait, is that a nine-year-old Scarlett Johansson? What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's interesting the details you'll latch onto in a movie just to
[01:03:33] like get you through, you know? Yes. And you're like tracking the hats. That sounds fun. Absolutely. I have one last review here, Mike, and this is a fairly positive one. Okay. It's a three and a half star review from Pube, which reads, Roger Eber also hated Hellraiser 2, so who gives a fuck what he thinks? Damn. Harsh words. I haven't seen Hellraiser 2, so I can't speak to it. That's going on the list. Oh, is it? Are you a Hellraiser 2 guy, Mike? I mean, yeah.
[01:04:02] It's just because I need to fill out the list. Yeah. Fair enough. I have seen the first Hellraiser and lights it a lot. Okay. I've heard Hellraiser 2 is good. So yeah, we'll get around to that when we get to it. But all right. That is our review of North. We did it, Mike. We did it. We survived North. Shout out to my friends that I made, well, offer to watch this with me. Yes, absolutely. That definitely probably helps a little bit. It is very funny that you got like six or seven people to watch North all at the same time. Yeah.
[01:04:31] Probably the most people that have watched it at the same time since it was in theaters. Yeah. I think you're assuming that there are six or seven people in that theater, which seems crazy. Good point. Yeah. All right. Mike, where can we find you online this week? You can find me at MD Film Blog on Letterboxd and Blue Sky. You can donate to support the show on our Ko-fi page, ko-fi.com slash Mike and Mike Pods, where you can donate $50 and pick a topic on the bonus episodes of Mike and Mike Go to the movies. You got a movie you want us to talk about. We'll do it.
[01:05:00] $50 and we'll watch Hellraiser 2, I guess, or the Adam Scott one, whichever one that is. The Adam Scott one. Oh, yeah. He's in Hellraiser 4, I think. Yeah. Yes. That'll be fun. And if you want merch, we have merch available on our Redbubble, mikeandmikepods.redbubble.com. Yeah, absolutely. Go to our Ko-fi page and make us talk about a different Rob Reiner movie because there's a lot of great ones. We talked about some really good movies that would have been fun to do. Yes, absolutely.
[01:05:29] We'd love to do a Princess Bride episode. That'd be amazing. I love the Princess Bride. Yeah. You know, that's great. When Harry Met Sally, what a picture. You know, all that stuff. But you can find me online at msmithfilmblog on Twitter and Blue Sky, Mike Smith Film on Letterboxd, Radio Mike Sandwich on Instagram. You can also find this podcast now on Instagram at Complete Works Pod. It is there. Thank you so much for listening to Complete Works. I'm Mike Smith. This is my Decretio. Don't forget to rate and view the show on Apple Podcasts or any other podcast app. And if you want to contact us, you can skeet at us at Complete Works Pod.
[01:05:56] You can find the rest of our podcasts and Raptor Press alongside many other podcasts, but all kinds of comic books, movie news, and all that good stuff. Our theme song was created by Kyle Cullen, who you can reach for your own podcast themes at kylespodcastthemes at gmail.com. And our logo was designed by Mac V or at Fearless Guard on Blue Sky. Next week, we've got Elijah Wood and Kevin Costner in the 1994 drama The War. What war? We'll find out. I can't wait. Yeah, exactly.
[01:06:24] Remember to check out our other podcasts, Mike and Mike Go to the Movies, for all kinds of other movie-related stuff, including recent releases, ranked lists, general discussions, and a lot more. Thanks so much for listening, guys. Join us next time. Would you? Would you?