You're not gonna believe it, folks - we actually got Mike D to watch the JOKER sequel. And guess what? He didn't like it. For that matter, Smith didn't like it either. Time to break it down.
[00:00:02] Let's get together, talk about the movies that we saw this week. We'll have discussions, talk film news, we'll laugh a lot and act like geeks. Sometimes we'll have a guest or two, sometimes it's just the two of us. Let's crack some jokes and tell some folks to come along and hang with us!
[00:00:13] Mike and...
[00:00:28] You know, we're living in a society...
[00:00:31] We're meant to act in a civilized way!
[00:00:34] It's Mike from the GoToTheMovies, I'm Mike Smith, and joining me as always is someone who has asked,
[00:00:40] When I bring him out...
[00:00:43] Can I introduce him as Joker?
[00:00:44] My God.
[00:00:47] Like an old glove, Victor Crecio, it's me. Hey, hello, sorry.
[00:00:50] I thought you were gonna say my name as if you've ever said my name when you introduced me before.
[00:00:54] It's only been eight years.
[00:00:56] Right.
[00:00:57] Longer, I think.
[00:00:58] Is it?
[00:00:58] Yeah.
[00:00:59] Remember the one year of the podcast where I did a variation of that intro for you every week?
[00:01:04] Every episode.
[00:01:05] When it was...
[00:01:05] Weekly, yeah, crazy.
[00:01:07] Yeah, that was the entire 2020 was just me doing different variations of that bit.
[00:01:13] And I think there's still a lot of room to mine.
[00:01:16] Yeah, I think you're right.
[00:01:17] A lot of juice left, for sure.
[00:01:19] I think there's a lot of juice on there.
[00:01:20] I think the audience is clamoring for more Joker content.
[00:01:22] Actually.
[00:01:24] Well, maybe judging by box office, maybe not.
[00:01:26] Right.
[00:01:26] Yeah, maybe that's the case.
[00:01:28] Yeah.
[00:01:28] So today, Mike, might go to the movies, Mike.
[00:01:31] Here's an episode that we've always threatened to do.
[00:01:34] Right?
[00:01:34] We've always...
[00:01:35] We should actually record this and then hold it hostage until somebody pays us.
[00:01:39] Because I think that was what we said we would do.
[00:01:41] We would only do this if somebody tips for it.
[00:01:44] This is true.
[00:01:45] That is very true.
[00:01:46] Yeah, no, we've always said we were going to do this episode, or at least I have always
[00:01:49] said.
[00:01:49] Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:01:50] We were going to do this episode basically ever since they announced Joker 2.
[00:01:54] And you have always been very resistant to the idea.
[00:01:56] Yeah.
[00:01:57] Partially because, you know, we talked about Joker when it came out, the original Joker from 2019.
[00:02:01] And I was like, oh yeah, I kind of liked it.
[00:02:03] It's, you know, it's got a lot of problems, but I overall had a decent enough time with it.
[00:02:07] And you were like adamant hate, hate this movie, everything it represents.
[00:02:11] Just harmful to my sensibilities.
[00:02:13] Yes.
[00:02:13] You were a huge non-fan of Joker.
[00:02:17] Yeah.
[00:02:17] Which is why it was so funny to always introduce you as Joker.
[00:02:21] But, you know, Joker was meant to be a one and done.
[00:02:24] Like they said over and over again in the press cycle and like in the awards campaigns,
[00:02:27] like, oh yeah, no, we're only doing this one movie.
[00:02:29] And then a couple of years later.
[00:02:31] It made a billion dollars and somebody was like, hey.
[00:02:34] Joker made a billion dollars.
[00:02:35] And so the studio essentially gave Todd Phillips and Walking Phoenix a full, like this is a
[00:02:39] true blank check movie.
[00:02:41] Like just a lot more money to do whatever they wanted.
[00:02:44] And every like new bits about Joker 2 just sounded insane.
[00:02:48] You know, like, oh, Lady Gaga's in it playing Harley Quinn.
[00:02:51] It's a musical.
[00:02:52] Yeah.
[00:02:53] It exists at all.
[00:02:54] Yes.
[00:02:55] Yes.
[00:02:55] That it exists at all.
[00:02:56] Sure.
[00:02:56] Yeah.
[00:02:57] I mean, just based on like, where could you possibly go after the first Joker?
[00:03:00] He's locked up.
[00:03:01] He's done.
[00:03:01] Yeah.
[00:03:02] You know?
[00:03:02] And so, you know, the more and more news came out about it, the more I was like, Mike,
[00:03:06] we got to do a Joker 2 episode.
[00:03:08] And you were like, no, absolutely not.
[00:03:10] I refuse.
[00:03:11] I don't want to do it.
[00:03:12] And honestly, when like Joker 2 came out, which at this point is like a week and a half
[00:03:17] ago or so.
[00:03:18] On my birthday.
[00:03:19] On your birthday.
[00:03:19] Yeah.
[00:03:19] It came out on October 4th.
[00:03:21] Yeah.
[00:03:21] It came out on your birthday.
[00:03:23] So when it came out, you were in Los Angeles.
[00:03:25] Yep.
[00:03:26] I was deep in Montana Film Festival land.
[00:03:28] Like that just happened to be the same weekend as MTFF.
[00:03:31] And we were actually planning to play it at the Roxy like the following week.
[00:03:34] It was going to be like, okay, we can't get it during the festival.
[00:03:36] The festival is too busy.
[00:03:37] But like, we'll start it up the following week.
[00:03:39] And then the reviews and box office came out and we're like, we're not playing it.
[00:03:44] We're not doing that.
[00:03:46] Yeah.
[00:03:47] Yeah.
[00:03:47] We ended up dropping it.
[00:03:48] And yeah, no, the reaction to Joker 2 was so viscerally different than what the first
[00:03:55] one was, you know, where everyone seemed to agree that they hated this movie and no one
[00:04:00] was really seeing it.
[00:04:01] And so I was, I was sort of resigned to being like, all right, you know what?
[00:04:04] We can skip a joke or two.
[00:04:07] We don't have to do this.
[00:04:08] You know, courtesy.
[00:04:09] Yeah.
[00:04:10] I like, I'm going to go see it regardless.
[00:04:11] But like, after like this whole reaction and everything about it, like there's no way
[00:04:16] I'm going to get Mike D to go see this movie that we can skip the Joker episode.
[00:04:20] And then lo and behold, I'm sitting in the theater waiting for Joker 2 to start.
[00:04:24] I open up Letterboxd and I see, I'm going to see like what other people have said about
[00:04:29] Joker 2 before I watch it.
[00:04:30] And I, and I noticed that Mike D has logged Joker 2.
[00:04:34] That you've logged it.
[00:04:36] You've rated it two stars.
[00:04:37] Yeah.
[00:04:37] And, and I was like, wait a minute, Mike D saw this before I did.
[00:04:43] Must have, it must have been like the day before, right?
[00:04:45] Or earlier that day.
[00:04:46] I don't remember.
[00:04:47] I, I saw it on Wednesday.
[00:04:49] Okay.
[00:04:50] It was a couple of days.
[00:04:51] Yeah.
[00:04:51] Yeah.
[00:04:51] So I think you saw it that Monday or something.
[00:04:53] You said it was like the day before you left for LA, right?
[00:04:56] Yeah.
[00:04:56] Before I came home.
[00:04:57] Correct.
[00:04:57] Yeah.
[00:04:57] Yeah.
[00:04:58] So you, you were in LA.
[00:04:59] What, what possessed you to go see Joker 2, Mike, knowing full well that you were going
[00:05:03] to hate it.
[00:05:03] I knew I was going to hate it.
[00:05:04] So yeah, I didn't really have plans Monday.
[00:05:07] It was my last full day.
[00:05:09] I was in Los Angeles.
[00:05:10] Um, the only thing I had was dinner plans with a friend.
[00:05:12] Um, so I was like, well, what am I going to do?
[00:05:14] I don't really want to like sit around the hotel for eight hours while I wait for my friend
[00:05:18] to get out of work.
[00:05:19] Like what am I going to do?
[00:05:20] I was going to go to the Getty center, which is like an art museum of course.
[00:05:24] And it turns out it's closed on Mondays.
[00:05:26] And I was like, oh, that sucks.
[00:05:27] There's a Getty villa.
[00:05:28] There's like a second museum they have, uh, that's set up as like a Roman villa.
[00:05:33] Um, it's like all Greek and Roman art and stuff.
[00:05:35] I was like, oh, that'd be really cool.
[00:05:37] Let me look at the Uber.
[00:05:38] Oh, there's an accident on one of the freeways or some shit.
[00:05:41] Like there always is.
[00:05:41] I guess it's two hours to get there.
[00:05:43] It's a $90 Uber.
[00:05:44] Maybe I won't do this.
[00:05:46] You know, maybe I won't go there.
[00:05:47] What am I going to do?
[00:05:48] So then I'm like, I guess I'll see a movie.
[00:05:50] I don't know.
[00:05:50] I'll scroll through the things.
[00:05:51] And then I remembered that a friend that I had hung out with earlier in the week had told
[00:05:55] me that she goes to the downtown LA Alma draft house all the time.
[00:05:58] And I was staying 15 minutes away from downtown.
[00:06:00] I was like, oh, perfect.
[00:06:01] Let me look at this draft house schedule.
[00:06:03] Timing worked out.
[00:06:04] Megalopolis doesn't start till like five for a screening.
[00:06:07] The substance was like four o'clock.
[00:06:08] I was like, oh my God, I don't want to sit around all day, wait to go to whatever.
[00:06:12] Oh, there's a screening of Paul Schrader's Hardcore.
[00:06:15] It was 1.30 in the afternoon on a Monday, which is fascinating.
[00:06:20] Um, and then at like 1.20, there's Joker Folly Adieu.
[00:06:24] Oh my God.
[00:06:25] It's like, I've seen Hardcore once.
[00:06:26] I actually own the Blu-ray from, uh, Indicator.
[00:06:29] I think it's, I think it's Kino Lorber who has the Hardcore Blu-ray.
[00:06:31] Yeah.
[00:06:32] And I know this because I actually have two copies of the Hardcore Blu-ray.
[00:06:34] You have two copies of that Blu-ray.
[00:06:36] Because I bought it and then forgot that I bought it.
[00:06:38] And then I bought it in the next class.
[00:06:40] The collector's dilemma.
[00:06:42] Yes.
[00:06:42] Uh, I, I, I foolishly did not update my Excel spreadsheet when I bought it the first time.
[00:06:47] Oh baby.
[00:06:48] The struggle.
[00:06:49] Um, and so anyway, I was like, that's a pretty intense movie to go see at 1.30 in the afternoon
[00:06:53] on a Monday.
[00:06:54] However, I am in LA.
[00:06:56] Just like where that movie is.
[00:06:57] Maybe, I don't know.
[00:06:59] Oh fuck it.
[00:06:59] I'll go see Joker.
[00:07:00] Whatever.
[00:07:01] Uh, so I go see Joker.
[00:07:03] And then the punchline to the story is I text my friend, I get out of the movie.
[00:07:06] I go to Starbucks.
[00:07:07] I'm hanging out around there.
[00:07:08] Text my friend and say like, oh, Hey, shout out.
[00:07:09] Thanks for telling me about this draft house.
[00:07:11] I was able to like kill my afternoon.
[00:07:13] Uh, and I see, so I Joker 10 minutes later, she texts me back.
[00:07:16] What the fuck?
[00:07:16] I just got out of hardcore, which is wild.
[00:07:19] So if I had gone to see hardcore, I would have me and my friend would have been the only
[00:07:23] perverts at one 30 on a Monday.
[00:07:25] And you would have been able to hang out with your friend.
[00:07:27] Yeah, exactly.
[00:07:28] Uh, but anyway, so I saw Joker, Folly Adieu, instead of having a fun by chance experience
[00:07:32] with my friend, I saw this stupid bullshit.
[00:07:35] Um, and you know, the good thing about going to the draft house, I got to also have lunch.
[00:07:40] So two birds with one stone.
[00:07:41] There you go.
[00:07:42] It all worked out.
[00:07:43] Sometimes, uh, the burger that you get is make, is making it worth it.
[00:07:46] Exactly.
[00:07:47] Yeah.
[00:07:48] Uh, all right.
[00:07:49] So yeah, so we both saw Joker, Folly Adieu.
[00:07:52] I didn't expect this.
[00:07:53] Uh, and so, well, as soon as I saw that Mike had seen it, I was like, well, we got to do
[00:07:57] the episode now.
[00:07:58] Like we've both seen Joker.
[00:07:59] We got to talk about it.
[00:08:00] And so, yeah, we're going to get into it right now.
[00:08:02] It's time to talk about Joker, Folly Adieu.
[00:08:08] Let's go boys.
[00:08:09] It's so hard.
[00:08:10] Thank you, thank you.
[00:08:13] Hey Fleck, you got a joke for us today?
[00:08:26] We use music.
[00:08:28] To make us whole.
[00:08:31] To balance the fractures within ourselves.
[00:08:39] I'm nobody.
[00:08:44] I haven't done anything with my life like you have.
[00:09:04] All right.
[00:09:04] That was in the trailer for Joker, Folly Adieu, directed by Todd Phillips.
[00:09:08] You got to sound more and more like Pepe Le Pew every time you say it.
[00:09:11] Folly Adieu.
[00:09:14] I do wonder how many, you know, it's such a, I mean, it's such a, you know, I don't like
[00:09:19] to use the word pretentious when talking about movies.
[00:09:21] However, I think calling the sequel to Joker, Folly Adieu does fall into the line of pretension
[00:09:27] a little bit.
[00:09:27] And I do wonder if there are like Americans who are like, yeah, can I get one ticket to Joker
[00:09:32] Folly Adieu, please?
[00:09:34] Adieu.
[00:09:35] I'm sure there are.
[00:09:36] Yeah.
[00:09:36] Yeah.
[00:09:38] But in any case, the new movie directed by Todd Phillips, it is a sequel to 2019's Joker.
[00:09:44] Joaquin Phoenix is back.
[00:09:45] Several cast members in the original are also back.
[00:09:47] Uh, and this one also features Lady Gaga playing, uh, I don't think they ever call her Harley
[00:09:52] Quinn, but it's like a version of Harley Quinn, right?
[00:09:54] Yeah.
[00:09:55] Well, I think they say Harlan Quinzel at one point.
[00:09:58] Maybe at one point.
[00:09:59] Yeah.
[00:10:00] They mostly call her Lee for most of the movie.
[00:10:02] Yeah.
[00:10:03] In another effort to make this, uh, unrelated to the Batman mythos in any way possible,
[00:10:07] I think is basically the thing.
[00:10:09] Uh, so yeah, so you were not a fan of the original Joker, Mike, and I know you had very
[00:10:13] low expectations for Joker Folly Adieu.
[00:10:15] Uh, yes, I did.
[00:10:18] But what did you think of this movie?
[00:10:20] I take, uh, a certain amount of vindication and happiness out of the reaction to this movie.
[00:10:26] I told you, you know, is all I gotta say.
[00:10:28] Um, I refuse, I refuse the, the kind of burgeoning narrative that this is like a deliberate middle
[00:10:34] finger, uh, Todd Phillips, right?
[00:10:36] Todd Phillips.
[00:10:37] Yeah.
[00:10:37] Todd Phillips, uh, like swindled $200 million out of the studio.
[00:10:41] No, I don't, I don't believe that for a second.
[00:10:44] Look at all the other movies he's made.
[00:10:47] Anyway, look at Joker.
[00:10:48] Um, so yeah, I mean, it's, it's stupid.
[00:10:51] It's dumb.
[00:10:51] It's the same thing as the first one.
[00:10:53] It's, it thinks it, I don't know.
[00:10:56] The first, my big deal with the first one was that it, to me, it felt like it thought
[00:10:59] it was so smart in that.
[00:11:01] And then it's just isn't, it's just, is the most obvious version of what if, what if
[00:11:07] taxi driver King of comedy?
[00:11:08] Oh, Joker.
[00:11:09] We got it.
[00:11:14] Pre-show thing.
[00:11:15] Right.
[00:11:15] So they had some like, I think maybe WB cartoon, other cartoons, you know, gloomy tune stuff
[00:11:19] or whatever.
[00:11:20] But the big thing right before the movie started, it's Vera drew from the people's Joker recapping
[00:11:26] the events of the first movie.
[00:11:27] Oh really?
[00:11:28] Um, and the shtick is she recaps the events of the people's Joker and then somebody cuts
[00:11:33] in is like, um, no Vera, it's the, the joke, the, the Warner brothers Joker, like from
[00:11:37] off screen.
[00:11:38] Uh, and she's like, Oh, I never saw that.
[00:11:40] And then it's always just the other, the offscreen voice doing the recap while just Vera drew
[00:11:44] sits there and like makes fun of the movie.
[00:11:48] Like, and I don't understand.
[00:11:50] Like, I was like, is the, we all, we're all in on that.
[00:11:52] This is bad thing.
[00:11:54] Like this is a official pre, I mean, obviously it's the draft house pre-show thing.
[00:11:58] Sure.
[00:11:58] Yeah.
[00:11:58] I will say the most positive reaction I have seen to Joker Folly.
[00:12:02] I do is from Vera drew really who gave it five stars and letterbox and has a very long
[00:12:07] review about it.
[00:12:09] Wild.
[00:12:09] And so, I mean, that's a joke that she hasn't seen the original Joker because yeah, she was
[00:12:13] like, I think she, there was another letterbox review that she had of Joker that was like,
[00:12:17] um, you know, of course I liked this movie.
[00:12:19] I spent four years making a parody of it.
[00:12:21] Like I have to like this.
[00:12:22] Of course.
[00:12:22] Yeah.
[00:12:23] Yeah.
[00:12:23] You know, but yeah, she gave like five stars to Joker Folly.
[00:12:26] I do.
[00:12:26] It has a very long letterbox review detailing why.
[00:12:29] Incredible.
[00:12:29] Yeah.
[00:12:29] And she's just like drinking a soda and like eating popcorn while this other, this offscreen
[00:12:34] voice does the recap.
[00:12:36] And, uh, and while showing like images for like, you know, she's like green screened into
[00:12:41] the movie, into the movie.
[00:12:42] So you see like what's the images from the first one.
[00:12:45] So like when, uh, he gets a gun in the first one, they're like, uh, you know, and Arthur
[00:12:49] is given a gun by a coworker to complete his transition into taxi driver.
[00:12:53] Uh, you know, and like they just are explicitly referencing this stuff.
[00:12:56] Um, anyway.
[00:12:56] Right.
[00:12:57] So all that to say Joker Folly ado is certainly a movie.
[00:13:00] It's a musical, I guess, in that it has musical, it has performances of songs.
[00:13:05] Yes.
[00:13:05] There, there are several of these moments.
[00:13:07] Like it happens a lot.
[00:13:09] Uh, they're bad.
[00:13:10] They're not good.
[00:13:11] I think, I think there, there's like a certain like meta thing going on where like, of course,
[00:13:16] Arthur cannot sing and dance.
[00:13:17] Like that's part of the thing, you know?
[00:13:19] So like he's, that's not the critique.
[00:13:21] I think the critique is that it just stops the movie, you know, it doesn't advance.
[00:13:25] And I don't need to have like the songs.
[00:13:27] Like I know it's a jukebox musical or whatever it's technically called or stuff, but I don't
[00:13:31] know.
[00:13:31] There's something so strange.
[00:13:32] They're all preexisting songs.
[00:13:33] There's no original songs in the movie.
[00:13:34] Right.
[00:13:34] Yeah.
[00:13:34] They're preexisting songs.
[00:13:35] I think the thing that feels weird is even if the songs don't necessarily advance the
[00:13:40] plot or whatever, um, they like textually do not happen in the movie.
[00:13:45] Like, right.
[00:13:45] They're flights of fantasy that Arthur is having.
[00:13:47] So it stops for him to sing whatever that song is.
[00:13:50] The first one, the finally have somebody that loves me or whatever.
[00:13:53] Right.
[00:13:53] The prison escape song.
[00:13:55] Is that the one?
[00:13:56] It's before that when he first sees Harley.
[00:13:58] Oh yeah.
[00:13:59] Yeah.
[00:13:59] And he comes back and he's up being talked about on the news.
[00:14:01] Right.
[00:14:01] And they're like, how does that make you feel Arthur?
[00:14:03] And it's him singing the song about like, finally somebody loves me or whatever.
[00:14:06] I forgot.
[00:14:06] I don't remember what song that is, but then the button on it is somebody who's like,
[00:14:09] Arthur, are you going to answer?
[00:14:10] And it cuts back to him having just been standing still the whole time.
[00:14:13] And like that never happened.
[00:14:15] It's like, okay, well I get it that it, that, that characterizes him that he's,
[00:14:18] you know, off on these flights of fantasy.
[00:14:20] Like he always is in the other movie too and stuff.
[00:14:22] He's got this larger sense of grandeur and stuff, but like you just wasted five minutes
[00:14:26] in this movie.
[00:14:27] I want to get out of here.
[00:14:29] You know, I don't know.
[00:14:30] Um, so I was not, you know, I, I also recognize I'm not in the bag for this movie anyway.
[00:14:34] I'm starting off from a point to fuck this movie.
[00:14:36] Uh, so I don't think there was ever a chance I was going to enjoy it necessarily,
[00:14:40] but it's not like terrible.
[00:14:41] I don't know.
[00:14:42] I don't really even know how I, you know,
[00:14:43] two stars, like whatever.
[00:14:44] It's like, it's like not, not so bad.
[00:14:46] It's interesting.
[00:14:47] It's more just like annoyingly boring, annoyingly fine.
[00:14:51] You know?
[00:14:51] So yeah.
[00:14:52] So here's what I'll say.
[00:14:53] Uh, the day before I saw Joker Foy, I do.
[00:14:55] I saw Francis Ford Coppola's Megalopolis.
[00:14:58] Okay.
[00:14:59] Yeah.
[00:14:59] Yeah.
[00:14:59] And that's a movie that I was very excited about.
[00:15:01] Uh, you know, just, uh, I wasn't even sure how I was going to like it, but I was just
[00:15:04] like, man, this is going to be an insane vision.
[00:15:07] And it is, uh, it's a huge, big swing.
[00:15:10] I think it's always compelling.
[00:15:11] I don't think all of it works, but I think it's really interesting.
[00:15:14] And that's sort of how I felt coming out of it.
[00:15:16] Like, and I, you know, it's like, oh yeah, three and a half stars, whatever.
[00:15:18] Like it's, it's not a great movie, but it's a really interesting experiment from one of
[00:15:23] our great filmmakers, all that stuff.
[00:15:24] And then the next day I went to go see Joker Foy, I do.
[00:15:27] And if anything, I was like, I think I like Megalopolis more now.
[00:15:32] Like I think like if anything, if, if nothing else, I feel like very comfortable in my like
[00:15:37] for Megalopolis, um, where, you know, both movies are ostensibly like very big swings,
[00:15:42] right?
[00:15:42] Like, you know, this is a, this is such a drastically different movie from the first
[00:15:46] Joker, which yes, the first Joker is just, you know, kind of a pastiche of Scorsese movies.
[00:15:50] This is kind of lifting from, I mean, if, if, if any Scorsese movie, it's New York, New
[00:15:55] York, but you know, it's, it's taking stuff from musicals.
[00:15:59] It's, it's sort of a hybrid musical slash courtroom drama.
[00:16:03] And yeah, it's not, it doesn't really have the backbone of something like King of comedy
[00:16:06] to lean back on anymore.
[00:16:08] Uh, so everything that I liked about Joker was like, yeah, I like King of comedy.
[00:16:12] What a good movie.
[00:16:13] What a good movie, you know?
[00:16:14] And so this movie doesn't have that like kind of structure to it.
[00:16:17] And Todd Phillips is just not as good of a filmmaker.
[00:16:20] It's Francis Ford Coppola is, you know, I think these Joker movies, like, do they look
[00:16:24] good?
[00:16:24] You know, they, they, the score is good.
[00:16:26] Like there's, they weirdly like have a good enough production to them where they, I feel
[00:16:30] like the first one, like trick people into thinking it was good.
[00:16:32] Yeah.
[00:16:33] A little bit.
[00:16:33] Right.
[00:16:34] We're in sort of like period dress or period set design.
[00:16:37] Sure.
[00:16:38] And the first one, you know, kind of came at a time when we were at this point in superhero
[00:16:44] movies and like movies based on Marvel and DC were like Avengers Endgame had just come
[00:16:48] out.
[00:16:49] Uh, and it was like, Oh, is this like the next step sort of thing?
[00:16:52] Or it's, it's so different from every other Marvel and DC movie out there.
[00:16:56] So it, it sort of felt like an interesting outlier to all of it.
[00:16:59] Uh, and it, it worked well enough to like get widespread critical acclaim.
[00:17:04] It won like the golden lion at Venice, 10 Oscar nominations, walking Phoenix, one best
[00:17:09] actor, you know, just Christ.
[00:17:12] And you look back on that and it's like, what the hell was happening in 2019 that Joker
[00:17:17] got, uh, this much love.
[00:17:18] And so now five years later, I think it's, it's interesting that like, you know, the, the
[00:17:23] conversation around superhero movies has definitely shifted in the last five years, uh, around
[00:17:28] Marvel and DC movies where, uh, you know, post end game Marvel's reputation is very much
[00:17:33] like, you know, hit or miss to say the least.
[00:17:35] Like a lot of people are like, well, these movies kind of suck now or whatever.
[00:17:37] And DC is like kind of restarting their entire universe from scratch.
[00:17:41] They like kind of like burnt out like four different movies last year, you know, all that
[00:17:45] stuff.
[00:17:45] And now Joker, if I do comes out a sequel to what was a huge success by all metrics, Joker
[00:17:51] one billion dollars.
[00:17:52] It was like the highest grossing R rated movie ever.
[00:17:54] It, you know, so many different, you know, critical and commercial, like huge success.
[00:17:58] And for Joker two to come out and be critically derided, like everyone hates this movie and
[00:18:05] also no one's seeing it is, uh, is such a huge, uh, you know, pendulum swing from, uh,
[00:18:11] five years ago.
[00:18:12] Uh, and this has kind of been happening with a few different superhero superhero sequels.
[00:18:16] Uh, Aquaman two was also one that like, Hey, Aquaman made a billion dollars and this
[00:18:20] one barely cracked 200 million.
[00:18:21] You know, uh, the Marvels was the same thing where, Hey, Captain Marvel made a billion
[00:18:25] dollars and this one barely cracked 200 million.
[00:18:27] And now Joker two is coming out and the first one made a billion dollars.
[00:18:30] And this one is barely going to crack 200 million.
[00:18:33] And it's like, man, they, uh, the audience interest in these things has shifted.
[00:18:37] It's gone.
[00:18:38] Don't care unless it's very good.
[00:18:40] Like if, if they hear good things about it, people will turn out.
[00:18:43] I think like guardians three was still big across the spider verse was still big, but
[00:18:47] like if, if the reviews out the gate for Joker two are terrible, people are going to
[00:18:51] skip it.
[00:18:52] And, uh, man, yeah, they skipped this one.
[00:18:54] Yeah.
[00:18:55] Yeah.
[00:18:55] I mean, it's, it's a result of also the training, the audiences to wait for streaming,
[00:18:59] right?
[00:18:59] It's like, well, fuck it up.
[00:19:00] This movie's bad.
[00:19:01] I'm not going to go.
[00:19:02] Like I'll just wait.
[00:19:03] They got to watch that home.
[00:19:04] Um, I mean, it's insane that in its second week, Joker is passed by terrifier three.
[00:19:10] Yeah.
[00:19:11] That's fucking insane.
[00:19:13] I texted, uh, Mike Evans programming director of the Roxy cause we were going to play Joker
[00:19:16] and I was like, man, we bet on the wrong clown.
[00:19:18] We should have played.
[00:19:19] Should have got terrifier three.
[00:19:21] Yeah.
[00:19:22] Yeah.
[00:19:22] Uh, which is a independent movie that the seat, the proceeding movie had to be crowdfunded.
[00:19:26] Right.
[00:19:27] Yes.
[00:19:28] Terrifier two was such a crazy word of mouth hit.
[00:19:30] Yeah.
[00:19:30] Uh, when that came out too, I still have not seen any of the terrifiers.
[00:19:33] Uh, have you, have you seen terrifier?
[00:19:34] I just rewatched or not rewatched.
[00:19:35] I just watched terrifier two for the first time.
[00:19:38] I skipped terrifier one cause I've heard that's skippable.
[00:19:41] Yeah.
[00:19:41] I've heard it's more of like a, you know, it's even lower budget than terrifier two,
[00:19:44] which had to be crowdfunded.
[00:19:45] Right.
[00:19:46] Um, and it's more like a proof of concept kind of thing.
[00:19:49] Although there's also a bunch of short films from what I understand too, of, of art,
[00:19:52] the clown, the killer.
[00:19:54] Did you enjoy terrifier two?
[00:19:55] I think it is fine.
[00:19:57] I think it's pretty cool.
[00:19:58] It's basically a series of vignettes to set up, uh, gore gags, uh, with like a loose story
[00:20:04] and characters.
[00:20:05] I mean, it's not like literally vignettes, but like it's, it's just setups to get art to
[00:20:10] kill people.
[00:20:10] Uh, which is fine.
[00:20:11] You know, that's what the point is.
[00:20:13] I guess that's fine.
[00:20:13] I think it's, it's the, the shtick is also that there were over two hours like this.
[00:20:16] I think terrifier two is two hours, 20 minutes, which for what it is is a little, it is too
[00:20:20] long.
[00:20:21] Like I get it.
[00:20:21] I get the shtick, but like chopping ball, give me the chopping ball cut.
[00:20:24] Yeah.
[00:20:25] These feel like they should be 85 minute movies.
[00:20:27] 75 minute ripper.
[00:20:29] I'm in, I'm all terrifiers by new personality, uh, two hour and 20 minute, you know, uh, meditation
[00:20:34] on violence and death and rebirth.
[00:20:36] I think I'm good.
[00:20:38] Um, you know, I mean, it's good.
[00:20:39] It's cool.
[00:20:39] It's cool.
[00:20:40] It's also part of the story.
[00:20:41] You know, like this independent underground, they had, you know, word of mouth, theatrical
[00:20:46] release thing, you know, all that.
[00:20:48] So it's cool to support it and stuff, but, uh, maybe not really for me necessarily.
[00:20:52] The Gore fags are really great though.
[00:20:54] The effects are nasty or gross.
[00:20:57] Okay.
[00:20:57] Fair enough.
[00:20:58] Better than Joker two.
[00:20:59] Better than better as time spans watching terrifier two than Joker two.
[00:21:02] And both about two hours and 20 minutes long.
[00:21:04] That's what I'm saying.
[00:21:06] Uh, yeah.
[00:21:07] And I think that's sort of, uh, the thing with Joker two is it just feels so, it's such a
[00:21:11] grim slog.
[00:21:12] There's not much going on here.
[00:21:14] You know, it is partially a musical.
[00:21:15] And I think, I mean, unlike you, Mike, I think the musical stuff is the stuff that worked for
[00:21:19] me the most.
[00:21:20] Even just like if, if it's only just a couple of the songs, like, and it's usually the
[00:21:24] stuff that leans more heavily on lady Gaga, who, you know, pretty good singer.
[00:21:27] Yeah.
[00:21:27] That's pretty good singer.
[00:21:28] Pretty good actress.
[00:21:29] I think like, I think she, when she's in, in the movie and on screen, I'm, I'm in, I'm
[00:21:33] there.
[00:21:33] Yeah.
[00:21:33] She's a compelling onscreen presence who, uh, is not in that many movies.
[00:21:37] Cause you kind of chooses her roles pretty carefully.
[00:21:38] Uh, cause I, I think it's really just, uh, a star is born obviously, uh, house of Gucci,
[00:21:43] which was last year or two years ago.
[00:21:45] Yeah.
[00:21:45] And now this one Joker, I mean, she's also in like machete kills, but that's kind of like
[00:21:49] from before I feel like a star is born is like kind of the delineating point.
[00:21:52] Oh, she can act.
[00:21:54] Yeah.
[00:21:54] Yes, exactly.
[00:21:55] Yeah.
[00:21:56] Yeah.
[00:21:56] So I think the stuff that leans more heavily on her as a performer, as a singer, uh, there's
[00:22:00] like the variety show, a special song that they do, uh, which is kind of fun.
[00:22:04] There's a, there's one, there's also one moment in the courtroom where like they break in a
[00:22:08] song and it's like just him killing everybody or like doing wacky things.
[00:22:11] And I was like, Oh yeah, this is the energy I want out of a Joker movie.
[00:22:14] This is pretty good.
[00:22:15] I like this.
[00:22:16] This is cool.
[00:22:17] Yeah.
[00:22:17] It's not happening.
[00:22:18] It's all a dream in his head.
[00:22:19] Right.
[00:22:19] And that's sort of the weird thing about it is it feels very like withholding to like, you know,
[00:22:23] what people would want out of a Joker movie.
[00:22:25] Um, you know, theoretically.
[00:22:27] Right.
[00:22:27] I mean, even, even a Joker movie that is a sequel to 2019 Joker, which was like a pretty big
[00:22:32] re-imagining of what the Joker is.
[00:22:34] Right.
[00:22:34] Um, but it's still like, I think if you watch that one by the end of it, it's like, it's
[00:22:38] still recognizably like you can see the bones of a Joker character in there.
[00:22:41] Right.
[00:22:41] That's the whole thing.
[00:22:43] Yeah.
[00:22:43] Yeah.
[00:22:44] It's, it's him becoming the Joker, uh, at the end, he's going to become the Joker.
[00:22:49] Uh, I'd like you to introduce me as the Joker.
[00:22:51] Yeah, exactly.
[00:22:52] Uh, and this movie spends a lot of time like litigating the first one, uh, in ways that
[00:22:56] are just not fun.
[00:22:57] Um, yeah.
[00:22:58] And in ways that are like, I don't know, it feels like it has a deliberate contempt for
[00:23:02] its audience.
[00:23:02] Like for everybody who liked Joker, this isn't for you sort of thing, which I've, that's
[00:23:08] the second time I felt that with a Todd Phillips movie.
[00:23:10] So Todd Phillips also director of the hangover trilogy.
[00:23:13] Right.
[00:23:14] And I have, I think I've said this on the podcast before the most mad I've ever been and coming
[00:23:18] out of a movie theater was when I saw the hangover part three, uh, which I only went
[00:23:23] to go see because fast and furious six was sold out.
[00:23:26] Uh, so I was already like, you know, bad mood.
[00:23:29] I can't go see the family.
[00:23:31] Did you see that?
[00:23:32] Um, can't go see the family.
[00:23:34] This is reminding me of, I think, uh, along with terrifier three being number one this
[00:23:39] weekend, I think it's the wild robot.
[00:23:41] Yeah.
[00:23:41] Wild robots, the new dream works animated movie.
[00:23:43] Yeah.
[00:23:43] Had like a crazy bump this weekend.
[00:23:45] And a lot of people believe it's the suspicion that if teenagers buying tickets to that and
[00:23:49] sneaking into terrifier three, that's how I used to do it.
[00:23:52] Rules.
[00:23:52] Yeah, that rules.
[00:23:53] That's great.
[00:23:54] Reason, uh, how to train dragon made so much money is because I was sneaking in a hot
[00:23:57] tub time machine, baby.
[00:23:58] Yeah, exactly.
[00:23:59] Anyway, so you go to see this hangover cause you can't go to fast periods.
[00:24:04] I went to hangover three, uh, and it was a packed crowd, you know, it was big.
[00:24:07] Um, and you know, I had seen the first two and I had seen the first one in theaters
[00:24:11] and you know, at the time I had 2009, I was 16 years old.
[00:24:13] I loved it.
[00:24:14] I was square in the audience.
[00:24:16] Yeah.
[00:24:16] Yes.
[00:24:16] Uh, I, I think that's a movie that has not aged particularly well.
[00:24:19] Um, but in the first five minutes or like, Oh, okay.
[00:24:22] Which doctor are we phaging?
[00:24:24] Yeah.
[00:24:24] Yeah.
[00:24:25] Which doctor?
[00:24:25] Wait a second.
[00:24:27] Uh, yeah.
[00:24:28] But I think there is still stuff in the first one that works, you know, there's still like,
[00:24:31] there is still funny stuff in there, you know, and stuff that I have fond memories
[00:24:34] of.
[00:24:35] Um, and then I saw hangover two on like DVD, like around the time, like when it hit DVD
[00:24:39] and was like, Oh, this is the same shit as the first one.
[00:24:41] All right.
[00:24:41] And then hangover three.
[00:24:43] I do.
[00:24:43] I did like respect a little bit cause it's not just the same shit as the first one.
[00:24:46] However, it's, it's so far removed from what people liked about the first one.
[00:24:51] It is.
[00:24:52] If you've never seen hangover three, have you seen hangover three?
[00:24:53] I have not.
[00:24:54] I checked out by the time the third one came out.
[00:24:56] Yeah.
[00:24:56] Hangover three is not a comedy.
[00:24:59] Oh my God.
[00:24:59] Yes.
[00:25:00] I've heard this before.
[00:25:00] Hangover three is a very dark crime drama.
[00:25:05] It has a few like jokey scenes in it.
[00:25:07] There's a couple of like outlandish situations, but it is a like dark crime drama that is like
[00:25:12] very much built around just these three characters in the hangover.
[00:25:16] And it's like, this isn't what I want out of a hangover movie.
[00:25:18] It's Greg Mason telegraphing his pivot to Chernobyl.
[00:25:22] Exactly.
[00:25:22] Right.
[00:25:24] Uh, and so I, I remember being so mad after hangover three cause a, I didn't think it was
[00:25:28] funny, but I was also like, I don't think it was trying to be funny.
[00:25:31] Like I was like, this isn't, this isn't an attempt at a comedy.
[00:25:33] This is like a really like cynical, like it really feels like Todd Phillips just wants
[00:25:37] to make a Scorsese movie.
[00:25:38] Right.
[00:25:39] You know?
[00:25:40] Uh, and then his next movie was war dogs, the Jonah Hill, Miles Teller movie, which I
[00:25:44] never saw, but that seemed like it was like more of the kind of crime comedy sort of thing.
[00:25:48] Right.
[00:25:48] Yeah.
[00:25:49] But then like when Joker came out, I was like, yeah, this is the movie I think he wanted
[00:25:52] to make when he was making hangover three.
[00:25:53] Like this makes sense.
[00:25:54] And so it's like, okay, well I'm sure Joker two will be similar.
[00:25:57] And I think Joker two, similar to hangover three just has such a contempt for all the
[00:26:02] people who liked the first one.
[00:26:03] Yeah.
[00:26:04] Who all the people who are like coming out here for the original, like to get more of
[00:26:07] the original.
[00:26:08] Uh, it just does not like you.
[00:26:10] And to that end, I'm like, you know, I sort of agree with the movie's thesis and that
[00:26:13] the first Joker wasn't that good of a movie.
[00:26:15] Right.
[00:26:16] But I also, you know, I, I, I really love musicals.
[00:26:20] I really love courtroom dramas.
[00:26:21] I really love Batman and this movie whiffs on all three counts.
[00:26:25] Like just, even the courtroom stuff isn't good.
[00:26:29] Yeah.
[00:26:29] You know, I think the problem with the courtroom stuff is, uh, you know, it's litigating all
[00:26:33] the stuff.
[00:26:33] It's just about the stuff from the first movie.
[00:26:35] So I know everything that happened already.
[00:26:37] I saw the, I saw the first movie.
[00:26:39] Uh, and so there's no chance for any kind of surprises to happen in the courtroom or any
[00:26:44] twist.
[00:26:44] Usually when you're watching a courtroom drama, you don't necessarily know if the guy is innocent
[00:26:49] or guilty or not.
[00:26:50] Right.
[00:26:50] Or if you know, or if you know, there's, there's innocence, you got to figure out like, Oh,
[00:26:54] how are we, how are we going to prove their innocence?
[00:26:55] Like whatever.
[00:26:56] There has to be like some kind of thing.
[00:26:57] You don't know what's going to happen.
[00:26:59] Right.
[00:26:59] And in this, they're just going over the events in the first movie.
[00:27:02] And it's like, yeah, I know.
[00:27:03] I saw it.
[00:27:04] I saw that movie.
[00:27:05] I was there.
[00:27:06] Yeah.
[00:27:06] Yeah.
[00:27:07] Okay.
[00:27:07] You're bringing back Zazie Beats.
[00:27:08] You're bringing back the other guy, the short guy, right?
[00:27:10] Like you're doing all that stuff.
[00:27:12] And it's just like, okay, fine.
[00:27:13] I guess.
[00:27:14] I don't know.
[00:27:14] Like it's there.
[00:27:15] I did kind of enjoy the moment when Joaquin Phoenix is doing a Southern chicken lawyer
[00:27:19] accent.
[00:27:20] And I think if, if there was more of that kind of energy in his character, uh, that
[00:27:24] could be fun, but there's not, like, it's just like that, that one thing.
[00:27:27] And then it's like, yeah, he's back to being the mopey Arthur Fleck character, uh, that,
[00:27:32] you know, is just some guy.
[00:27:33] Yeah.
[00:27:33] It's, I mean, really, I guess the idea of it is like, Oh, what's he, is he really the
[00:27:37] Joker?
[00:27:37] Is the Joker some kind of like, it does he have multiple personalities?
[00:27:40] That's what they're trying to get at by the end, like throughout the whole case.
[00:27:43] Right.
[00:27:43] Poor Catherine Keener, you know?
[00:27:44] Oh yeah.
[00:27:44] Poor Catherine Keener.
[00:27:45] But at the end of the first movie, he's like very definitively the Joker, right?
[00:27:48] Like that's what it like.
[00:27:50] He asks him to be introduced as the Joker.
[00:27:52] It's the whole thing.
[00:27:53] Yeah.
[00:27:53] And then, and then the movie starts to, he's given up, he's resigned, right?
[00:27:57] That he won't, he won't tell jokes anymore to the guards.
[00:27:59] He doesn't want to, he's, he's Arthur Fleck now.
[00:28:02] He's that was a period of my life where I made a mistake or whatever, you know, even though
[00:28:06] it doesn't seem that remorseful.
[00:28:08] Um, and then he sort of gets honey potted or whatever by Lee, uh, yeah.
[00:28:14] Lady Gaga who, uh, yeah, is like kind of posing as another like secure, like a prisoner
[00:28:19] in the Arkham, right?
[00:28:20] Right.
[00:28:21] Yeah.
[00:28:21] Yeah.
[00:28:21] She's in the, the low security, like mental hospital part instead of the prison part.
[00:28:25] It's like, what is going on here?
[00:28:27] Um, those Arkham guys got to figure out there.
[00:28:30] They're always making messes over there.
[00:28:32] Um, yeah.
[00:28:33] And then he, she lies to him potentially about why she's there and her family and, and sort
[00:28:39] of, uh, cons her way into his life and, and convinces him to become the Joker, show
[00:28:44] the real you, this whole Arthur Fleck guy, isn't the real you it's you're the Joker, like
[00:28:48] makes him put on Joker makeup before they'll have sex, all this weird shit.
[00:28:51] Right.
[00:28:51] And then, uh, as soon as he has that moment in the courtroom where he like breaks down
[00:28:56] and, and, and drops the facade and admits that like, no, I'm just Arthur Fleck.
[00:29:00] Uh, she, that's it.
[00:29:00] He's gone.
[00:29:01] He's out.
[00:29:01] She's out.
[00:29:02] No, I don't have no interest in you if you're not going to spark the revolution or like
[00:29:05] whatever the fuck they're trying to do.
[00:29:06] I don't even know.
[00:29:07] Right.
[00:29:08] And then children of men happens.
[00:29:09] Yeah.
[00:29:10] So there's this, there's this explosion that happens in the courtroom when they're about
[00:29:13] to read, uh, or when they're reading Arthur's sentence.
[00:29:15] Right.
[00:29:15] Yeah.
[00:29:16] Uh, and he's, and he's being found guilty on all counts.
[00:29:18] Like it's, that's what's being happening.
[00:29:20] And then there's this huge explosion that happens.
[00:29:21] The wall blows out and Harvey Dent has fire on half of his face.
[00:29:24] So, you know, he turns into two face, uh, just in case you didn't know what Harvey Dent
[00:29:28] was.
[00:29:29] Yeah.
[00:29:29] There he is in the background.
[00:29:31] But, uh, yeah, um, it says, and so Arthur kind of like, you know, stumbles out of there
[00:29:35] and he like gets into a car with like two guys who were like, you know, idolizing him and
[00:29:39] all that stuff.
[00:29:39] But like, there's a moment there where I was like, Oh man, Harley just broke him out of
[00:29:44] jail and they're going to go do Joker and Harley shit all across the city.
[00:29:47] Like, yeah, this is going to be fun.
[00:29:48] And that's not, I don't know.
[00:29:50] It's caught again.
[00:29:51] I don't know.
[00:29:51] It felt so weird.
[00:29:52] Cause he, he gets in the car, right.
[00:29:54] It's one guy dressed like him from the first movie.
[00:29:57] And then the second guy is wearing a mask like the bank robbers in the beginning of
[00:30:01] dark night.
[00:30:02] And I was like, is this a weird reference to that?
[00:30:04] Like, like the same kind of the very end of the movie sort of made it feel like, is
[00:30:08] it trying to connect to the dark night in some way?
[00:30:10] It's connecting to other stuff.
[00:30:11] Um, which is weird, but yeah, I definitely also noticed that for sure.
[00:30:15] I had the same thought.
[00:30:16] Um, yeah, but yeah, he gets in that taxi and it's all one take and it's, it's like
[00:30:20] children of men, like steadicam stuff, right?
[00:30:22] It's like, well, this is crazy.
[00:30:23] Uh, until they get into a, uh, traffic jam and he just gets out of the car and runs away
[00:30:28] from that plot.
[00:30:29] Yes.
[00:30:29] Like, wait a second, let's go out with these guys.
[00:30:31] I do like when the guys chase him down and one of the cars, like a car hits one of the
[00:30:34] guys and you see him go fly.
[00:30:36] It's awesome.
[00:30:36] Uh, that shot was in the trailer, which is funny because the other shot of them dancing
[00:30:40] down the courtroom steps is in the trailer, not in the movie.
[00:30:43] Yes.
[00:30:43] Like one of the most prominent scenes in the trailer.
[00:30:46] Uh, very strange, which happens a lot, but, um, yeah, sure.
[00:30:48] Uh, and then he like returns to the Joker steps in the first movie, right?
[00:30:51] That's why.
[00:30:52] Cause Harley moves into his old apartment building and he's like, I don't want to live there.
[00:30:56] Right.
[00:30:56] Right.
[00:30:57] She's moved back in to be part of the life or whatever.
[00:30:59] Uh, and so yeah, they meet on the steps and she tells him like, you're useless to me or
[00:31:03] whatever.
[00:31:03] I don't even know what she's telling him, but she's not interested if you're not the Joker
[00:31:06] basically.
[00:31:07] And then the cops show up and arrest him.
[00:31:09] Yeah.
[00:31:09] He gets, he gets arrested and yeah, he's just back in jail and it's raped by the prison guards.
[00:31:13] I don't know.
[00:31:13] It's just, that's the wildest shit ever.
[00:31:16] Yeah.
[00:31:16] Implied.
[00:31:17] I guess they don't show it happening, but like you, you see Brendan Gleeson and his guards
[00:31:22] like rip off his clothes.
[00:31:23] Uh, and then it cuts away and it's like, you see Arthur like visibly shaken.
[00:31:27] Um, yeah.
[00:31:28] In the showers, right?
[00:31:29] Yeah.
[00:31:30] At that point in the movie, you're just like, why the fuck am I watching this?
[00:31:33] I don't know.
[00:31:33] It's like, that's fine.
[00:31:34] It's like, whatever, what's going on?
[00:31:35] And then he gets, um, shanked by some guy that's been, they've been showing, looking
[00:31:40] at him the whole movie.
[00:31:41] Yeah.
[00:31:42] So I, I, when I was watching the movie, uh, I saw that guy and there's another prisoner
[00:31:47] in Arkham who like sort of idolizes, uh, Joker and like follows him around there.
[00:31:52] Yeah.
[00:31:52] Follows him around and he gets killed by the prison guards like halfway through the movie
[00:31:55] or something like that.
[00:31:55] Yeah.
[00:31:56] Um, and I, in my head for whatever reason, I thought he was that guy.
[00:32:00] Like I, I, I thought the entire movie was a dream sequence.
[00:32:03] Incredible.
[00:32:04] Uh, and I was so mad for a second.
[00:32:06] How cool would that have been?
[00:32:06] I was so mad for a second.
[00:32:08] And like, after all this shit you've put me through.
[00:32:10] Yeah.
[00:32:11] Uh, and it's not a dream sequence.
[00:32:13] I just, I have face blindness, I guess, for these two guys.
[00:32:16] Uh, but yeah, this one guy, uh, who you kind of see, like you've seen pop up in the prison
[00:32:20] here and there.
[00:32:20] Arthur's like walking down the hallway.
[00:32:22] I think he has been sentenced to death at this point.
[00:32:25] Right.
[00:32:25] Or, or has he not been?
[00:32:26] I don't really know.
[00:32:27] That's what they're going for in the trial.
[00:32:29] Whether while the, but when the bomb goes off.
[00:32:30] So I don't really know if they, if they actually follow through on that or not.
[00:32:33] Yeah.
[00:32:33] Yeah.
[00:32:34] But, uh, in any case, like this guy is following Arthur and, uh, yeah, shanks him.
[00:32:38] And, uh, yeah, just, you see Arthur lying dead, bleeding out.
[00:32:41] Uh, and then in the background of the guys like starts laughing hysterically, like the Joker
[00:32:45] and he takes the knife and he gives himself scars, uh, on the sides of his mouth.
[00:32:50] Uh, much like Heath Ledger's Joker in the dark night.
[00:32:54] Uh, and I don't know, it's, it, that feels like a very weird, I'm not sure if this is
[00:32:58] supposed to be like literally canon to the dark night or anything like that.
[00:33:01] Yeah.
[00:33:01] Um, but I think the idea is that like, Oh, Arthur was never the Joker, but like the person
[00:33:06] who kills him or like one of his acolytes, like really becomes the Joker that we know.
[00:33:11] Right.
[00:33:11] From like, like from pop culture and things like that.
[00:33:13] Right.
[00:33:14] Yeah.
[00:33:14] Yeah.
[00:33:14] And even the, cause you know, the whole thing with the, um, they gave Arthur, um, this was part
[00:33:19] of the, the pre-show thing too, with the Vera drew thing with, uh, you know, the Arthur's
[00:33:23] this like loner that's forgotten by society who has this neurological disorder that makes
[00:33:28] him laugh often at inappropriate times.
[00:33:30] Like that's the, that's how they delivered it in the voiceover, which is very funny.
[00:33:35] Someone who finds the idea of crime to be funny.
[00:33:37] Yeah.
[00:33:37] Which is crazy that, that even in this movie that happens where the people, he laughs at
[00:33:43] inappropriate times and they explode in a rage at his, at his inappropriate laughter.
[00:33:48] And it's like, yeah, there's one thing we know about this character and it's like, I
[00:33:52] don't know.
[00:33:52] It just feels annoying.
[00:33:53] Um, but anyway, so he's laughing while he's getting stabbed, right?
[00:33:57] It's a whole, cause he laughs at inappropriate times.
[00:34:00] Uh, and then the other guy starts laughing, but it is much closer to the Heath Ledger laugh
[00:34:04] than this laugh.
[00:34:05] Uh, so I definitely noticed that.
[00:34:07] And then out of focus in the background, you see him cutting his cheeks, uh, after he's
[00:34:11] killed Arthur and you're like, Whoa, okay.
[00:34:12] I guess they're doing some kind of like that or implying that this is the origin or whatever.
[00:34:17] Like you said, I think, I think that he, uh, Arthur inspires the person, the character that
[00:34:21] we know in the comics or whatever, in the other movies, I think.
[00:34:24] Yes.
[00:34:24] Um, but also if we're going to pretend Todd Phillips is smart, you can do some kind of
[00:34:29] thing about how the, the, the audiences that love the, the audience members that love the
[00:34:34] Joker and relate to him, kill him, kill him.
[00:34:36] Right.
[00:34:36] Like he's, this is clearly some guy that worships Joker, right?
[00:34:39] Like if you're going to take the big middle finger to fans of the Joker approach to this
[00:34:43] movie, it's like, this is you guys.
[00:34:45] Yeah.
[00:34:45] I felt the movie is saying, um, but I don't think, I don't think it gets there because
[00:34:49] this movie is dumb.
[00:34:50] Just like the first one.
[00:34:51] And I, and I, I have to reject the, uh, the connecting to the canon of the dark night.
[00:34:55] Like, I don't think literally visceral level.
[00:34:57] Yeah.
[00:34:57] I don't think it's supposed to be literally that, but it does like, it does feel like
[00:35:00] it's trying to connect to that in some way.
[00:35:02] Yeah.
[00:35:02] Or the larger Batman stuff.
[00:35:04] Yeah.
[00:35:04] Yeah, exactly.
[00:35:05] And the timeline would add up.
[00:35:07] Cause I remember in the first Joker, Bruce Wayne is like eight years old, right?
[00:35:09] Like it's, but he's like a kid.
[00:35:11] Um, yeah, he, like you, you do see him.
[00:35:13] He like, I remember in the first Joker, he like goes to Wayne Manor, I think to ask Thomas
[00:35:16] Wayne for a job or something.
[00:35:18] Yeah.
[00:35:18] He thinks he's his son, right?
[00:35:19] His mom lied to him about being his bastard son or something.
[00:35:23] Right.
[00:35:23] Exactly.
[00:35:24] Uh, and so that's another weird thing about this movie is it is, you know, I think, I
[00:35:27] think Thomas Wayne, like Wayne Enterprises is mentioned like once, um, or you see, or you
[00:35:31] see the building in the background, like there's no mention of Bruce Wayne or anything
[00:35:34] like that, uh, in this movie, which on the one hand is fine, you know, whatever, but it
[00:35:37] does make it feel like so disconnected from the stuff that people like about, you know,
[00:35:42] Batman and the Joker.
[00:35:43] I don't know.
[00:35:43] Yeah.
[00:35:44] Well, even they talked about, I remember seeing stuff about, uh, like the deliberate decision
[00:35:48] to move Harley, Harley, you know, Lee away from the accent, away from the, the baseball
[00:35:54] bat or the hammer, like away from the iconography surrounding her character.
[00:35:58] Right.
[00:35:58] Cause it's supposed to be a more realistic take on all these characters.
[00:36:01] Right.
[00:36:01] Which we did already with Christopher Nolan.
[00:36:04] What are we doing?
[00:36:04] And we, we've actually just continually been doing realistic takes on Batman, uh, since
[00:36:08] then too.
[00:36:09] Uh, just, I mean, you know, the Matt Reeves stuff is more like, I forgot about that movie.
[00:36:13] Yeah.
[00:36:13] Yeah.
[00:36:13] The Batman, which, which, but I mean, uh, the Batman pretty good.
[00:36:17] I liked that movie a lot, but also if you do want a pretty good, like grounded adaptation
[00:36:22] of a Batman villain, uh, the penguin is on HBO max right now.
[00:36:26] Fucking rules.
[00:36:27] It's very good.
[00:36:28] I've heard it rocks.
[00:36:29] Yeah.
[00:36:29] Yeah.
[00:36:29] I've, I've been like very pleasantly surprised by how good the penguin is.
[00:36:32] Uh, mostly because when I watched the first episode, I was like, yeah, this is the Sopranos,
[00:36:36] but with the penguin.
[00:36:37] Right.
[00:36:37] Right.
[00:36:37] Uh, and it turns out that's a winning formula.
[00:36:39] That's pretty good.
[00:36:40] That's solid stuff right there.
[00:36:41] I, yeah.
[00:36:42] Um, that's interesting.
[00:36:43] And I, and I think I, I thought when they have the scrawny kid that was like following
[00:36:47] around, um, Earth or Fleck in prison, the guy, the kid that gets killed.
[00:36:51] Yeah.
[00:36:51] I was like, is he going to be like the, the Riddler or something?
[00:36:53] Like I thought, I didn't know.
[00:36:54] Is he like going to be, he's starting to form a rogues gallery or whatever.
[00:36:57] Right.
[00:36:58] But no, it turns out they're all just like dweebs or whatever.
[00:37:00] I don't know.
[00:37:01] Right.
[00:37:01] Or victims rather, I guess.
[00:37:03] Yes.
[00:37:04] Uh, yeah, no, I mean, it, it does seem like this is the sort of definitive, like there's
[00:37:08] no coming back from this one.
[00:37:09] Like they're not going to make a Joker three.
[00:37:10] Yeah.
[00:37:11] Uh, I think even if the movie had done well and people liked it, like he's quite dead
[00:37:14] at the end of the movie for sure.
[00:37:16] Yeah.
[00:37:17] I don't know.
[00:37:18] So yeah, no, it's a, it's, it's a weird movie.
[00:37:20] It's again, it's, it's such a different movie than anything else out there right now.
[00:37:24] Uh, in terms of like a franchise entry that is like completely uninterested in being a
[00:37:29] franchise entry or like pleasing the fans in any way.
[00:37:32] And in that regard, like I, you know, I am generally speaking somebody who's like, don't
[00:37:36] care about the fans.
[00:37:37] Just like tell a story that like, like is good.
[00:37:39] Right.
[00:37:40] Right.
[00:37:40] And I think, and I think you, we've seen, you know, franchise entries in the past, like
[00:37:43] Star Wars, the last Jedi, for example, which is a movie that I think is great.
[00:37:47] I love, I love last Jedi.
[00:37:48] Uh, yeah, you're, you're a big fan of it.
[00:37:50] Uh, and you know, you, you've seen other ones where it's like, oh yeah, we're subverting
[00:37:53] expectations.
[00:37:53] We're doing different things with the series and we're trying to move it forward in new
[00:37:57] and interesting directions.
[00:37:58] And sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't.
[00:38:00] Um, but I think usually I'm, I'm glad that they do that.
[00:38:03] I'm usually glad that that exists.
[00:38:05] And this one is like, I, I can't understand the mentality behind Joker and Folea 2, I guess.
[00:38:11] I just don't get it.
[00:38:12] I don't get it.
[00:38:13] Yeah.
[00:38:14] Yeah.
[00:38:15] And then, then like also around the time this movie was coming out last week or whatever,
[00:38:19] there was like announcements about studios forming like super group, super fan test groups
[00:38:25] to like run movies by, to avoid online backlash.
[00:38:28] To make sure we don't have any more Joker Folea 2s.
[00:38:30] Yeah.
[00:38:31] Or, or, uh, last Jedi's, um, you know?
[00:38:34] Uh, so it's like, okay, let's explicitly cater to the misogynistic fascists in our fandoms
[00:38:40] or whatever.
[00:38:40] Uh, so I was just like, I don't know.
[00:38:42] I don't, it's just like, what are we, what are we doing?
[00:38:45] Forget it.
[00:38:45] I mean, it's a thousand megalopolis, megalopoli.
[00:38:48] Yes.
[00:38:48] I would gladly take much more megalopoli.
[00:38:51] Um, I would not take many more Joker Folea 2s.
[00:38:54] I think there has to be some kind of middle ground, right?
[00:38:56] Like there's, I guess so.
[00:38:58] You know, I mean, I think the weird thing is, you know, as, as weirdly derided as Star Wars
[00:39:02] The Last Jedi is, I think that is a very satisfying Star Wars movie in its own right.
[00:39:06] Like, I think it does a lot to like be Star Wars.
[00:39:08] I think any sane person has this opinion.
[00:39:12] I, I remember walking out of The Last Jedi in 2017 and being like, wow, they did it.
[00:39:17] Yeah.
[00:39:18] Finally, a great Star Wars movie.
[00:39:20] Force Awakens, pretty good.
[00:39:21] But this, man, this is like next level.
[00:39:23] Uh, I, I can't wait to see how people react to this.
[00:39:26] Can't wait to see who Broom Kid is in the next movie.
[00:39:29] Yeah.
[00:39:29] Well, I mean, I, I fully understood that Broom Kid was a metaphor.
[00:39:32] I know.
[00:39:32] A lot of people didn't.
[00:39:35] But then you get, you know, and obviously the, uh, the online reaction to The Last Jedi
[00:39:38] was pretty polarizing.
[00:39:39] Uh, a lot of people didn't like it.
[00:39:40] Uh, and then when you get to Rise of Skywalker, the ninth one, uh, it's, uh, it just completely
[00:39:45] went, did a 180, completely caters to all the, the basest fan instincts.
[00:39:50] Uh, and it's the worst Star Wars movie.
[00:39:52] It's terrible.
[00:39:52] Yeah.
[00:39:53] It's, it's really bad.
[00:39:54] We have Kerry Russell in a movie and it's awful.
[00:39:56] We wasted Kerry Russell.
[00:39:59] How could we do this?
[00:40:00] How could we do this personally to Kerry Russell?
[00:40:02] The only good thing that came out of it was we got music super producer Kyle's Twitter
[00:40:07] handle.
[00:40:07] Yes.
[00:40:08] At Babu Thicke.
[00:40:09] And also Babu Frick himself is pretty rad.
[00:40:11] I like Babu Frick.
[00:40:11] He's a good dude.
[00:40:12] He's a good guy.
[00:40:13] He's tried his best.
[00:40:15] But yeah, I mean, every, every time like a movie like Matrix Resurrections or something
[00:40:18] comes out, it's always like, you know, this, I mean, Matrix Resurrections, I think
[00:40:21] is a good example of one that is like actively antagonizing the fan base.
[00:40:24] Yeah.
[00:40:25] But it's still, I think a pretty satisfying Matrix movie on its own.
[00:40:28] You know?
[00:40:28] Sorry.
[00:40:29] I just remembered how excited I was when the Merv showed up.
[00:40:32] That's what I'm saying, man.
[00:40:34] We got the Merv back.
[00:40:37] Why wasn't the Merv in Joker Falei Adu?
[00:40:39] That's what I'm saying.
[00:40:40] A hundred percent.
[00:40:41] Um, yeah.
[00:40:42] And I just watched, rewatched, uh, Cuckoo, which has Jennifer Henwick?
[00:40:49] Jessica Henwick?
[00:40:49] Jessica Henwick.
[00:40:50] Yeah.
[00:40:50] Matrix Resurrections?
[00:40:51] Or Matrix Resurrections.
[00:40:52] Bugs?
[00:40:52] Yep.
[00:40:52] Yeah.
[00:40:53] And, uh, she's in Cuckoo and I was like, hell yeah.
[00:40:54] I forget her.
[00:40:55] She rules.
[00:40:55] Anyway, um, I don't know.
[00:40:57] Fuck Joker.
[00:40:58] Basically.
[00:40:58] Yeah.
[00:40:59] You know, it's not very good.
[00:41:00] Uh, I, I, like I liked the first one more than you did.
[00:41:03] Uh, and by the end of this movie, I was like, did I like the first one?
[00:41:07] I don't know.
[00:41:08] Do I like movies?
[00:41:09] Do I even like movies?
[00:41:11] How long have I been in this theater?
[00:41:12] Is it, have I been here forever?
[00:41:14] Um, it's just the Red Room from Twin Peaks.
[00:41:17] Yes, exactly.
[00:41:17] Uh, yeah, no, I, I was, I was gonna rewatch the first one before Joker 2 came out and then
[00:41:23] just didn't have the time.
[00:41:24] And now I don't want to, I just, I kind of want to preserve my memory of it being like,
[00:41:29] oh yeah, it's pretty good.
[00:41:30] Right.
[00:41:30] You know, maybe I'll rewatch King of Comedy instead.
[00:41:32] Like that, that might be my better.
[00:41:34] There you go.
[00:41:35] Yeah.
[00:41:36] I should have went to see Hardcore.
[00:41:37] That's what the moral of this story also.
[00:41:39] You probably should have gone to see Hardcore.
[00:41:40] I've, I still, despite having two Blu-ray copies of the movie, have not seen it.
[00:41:44] Uh, it's incredible.
[00:41:46] Also the collector's dilemma.
[00:41:50] One of these days I'm going to watch them both at the same time.
[00:41:52] Whoa.
[00:41:52] I'm on two TVs back to back.
[00:41:54] Yeah.
[00:41:54] Two eyes for a reason.
[00:41:55] Exactly.
[00:41:56] Um, anyway, uh, any other thoughts about Joker for all that I do, Mike, or any, anything
[00:42:01] else that you wanted to bring up?
[00:42:02] Any just random things?
[00:42:03] Yeah.
[00:42:04] So when I went to, when I was in LA for random things, uh, I also went to a screening of
[00:42:08] The Hidden.
[00:42:10] Um, it was B, I was there, happened to be there during Beyond Fest, which is a big major genre
[00:42:14] film festival, film festival.
[00:42:16] Right.
[00:42:16] I think it's the American Cinematheque is the like organization or whatever.
[00:42:19] So it's three, a couple of theaters they own or participate in or whatever.
[00:42:23] And they screenings all the time.
[00:42:25] Uh, so The Hidden with, uh, Kyle McLaughlin was there to introduce it, which is pretty
[00:42:29] great.
[00:42:29] And you and I had seen The Hidden.
[00:42:31] Yes.
[00:42:31] At one of the things.
[00:42:32] The Hudson Horror Show, I think.
[00:42:34] I think you're right.
[00:42:34] Many years ago.
[00:42:35] Yeah.
[00:42:35] Yeah.
[00:42:35] Way back when we used to go to the all day horror fest things and horror marathons.
[00:42:40] And I remember liking it, but like not really anything else about it.
[00:42:44] And I'm here to, to evangelize that The Hidden fucking rules.
[00:42:47] I need everybody to watch The Hidden.
[00:42:49] And, uh, it's, there's a Blu-ray from somebody.
[00:42:51] I forget who.
[00:42:52] Yeah.
[00:42:53] I have The Hidden on Blu-ray.
[00:42:54] That might be, that might also be a Kino one.
[00:42:55] Or Show Factory maybe or something.
[00:42:57] It's got one.
[00:42:58] I think it was Show.
[00:42:58] Yeah.
[00:42:58] I think it was Kino Lorber.
[00:42:59] Yeah.
[00:42:59] But yeah, I have The Hidden Blu-ray and, uh, or actually, you know what?
[00:43:02] I think it's Warner Archive.
[00:43:03] Ah, yes.
[00:43:04] I think you're right.
[00:43:04] Yes.
[00:43:05] It is Warner Archive.
[00:43:06] Um, so get that Blu-ray if it's still available.
[00:43:08] Cause I didn't, I think Warner went away.
[00:43:09] I don't know.
[00:43:09] Whatever.
[00:43:10] In rules.
[00:43:10] That's all I gotta say.
[00:43:11] I thought, I thought I remembered it being a little more horror-y.
[00:43:14] It's definitely got sci-fi stuff.
[00:43:15] It's gross, practical effects, sci-fi bug things.
[00:43:18] Yep.
[00:43:18] But also, mostly like an action buddy comedy, which I didn't really remember at all.
[00:43:23] Like gnarly, big squib, shoot-em-up stuff.
[00:43:27] Cause the whole thing with the, uh, bad guy, I'll say, is that he just like has no impulse
[00:43:32] control and if he just wants it, he's gonna steal it and kill anybody that gets in his
[00:43:35] way and whatever that thing might be.
[00:43:37] Uh, so it's just people shooting up record shops cause he wants to listen to heavy metal
[00:43:41] tapes and stealing Lamborghinis.
[00:43:43] Um, and it rules, it's a lot of fun and it was a blast.
[00:43:46] And Kyle McLaughlin is a beautiful human in person to confirm.
[00:43:50] Everybody should know that.
[00:43:51] Yes.
[00:43:51] Very cool.
[00:43:52] Loved it.
[00:43:52] Love to hear that.
[00:43:53] Uh, and yeah, the hidden rules.
[00:43:54] Uh, so yeah, people should check it out.
[00:43:55] You also went to see Event Horizon, which I think you mentioned earlier.
[00:43:58] Yes.
[00:43:58] Event Horizon movie.
[00:44:00] I've seen a bunch of times, uh, just like around.
[00:44:03] Um, but yeah, also on 35 millimeter with Paul W.S.
[00:44:05] Anderson there to introduce and a Q and A afterwards with also the screenwriter whose
[00:44:09] name I forget, but he was there and it's fucking cool.
[00:44:11] You know, I was just like there.
[00:44:13] It's like just doing LA shit.
[00:44:14] You know, it's like, it was a weird, weird experience for a person that doesn't get,
[00:44:19] go to a lot of those things.
[00:44:20] You know?
[00:44:20] Yes.
[00:44:20] You were sitting next to a dropout cast member, see an evil dead at the new Beverly.
[00:44:24] It's pretty cool.
[00:44:25] Doing.
[00:44:25] I was doing it.
[00:44:26] It was happening.
[00:44:26] It was all happening in LA specifically for the five days that I was there.
[00:44:30] Now it's all over.
[00:44:30] It's never going to happen.
[00:44:32] There's nothing going on now.
[00:44:34] Absolutely.
[00:44:35] Um, yeah.
[00:44:35] But beyond this is really cool.
[00:44:36] They, I don't know.
[00:44:37] It was, I think it's like notoriously hard to get tickets to a lot of stuff, but I had a really
[00:44:40] good experience.
[00:44:41] I don't know if that, I think I remember hearing they, they in the past don't have a
[00:44:45] queue on the website.
[00:44:46] So the website just crashes because thousands of people try to go on and they did it like
[00:44:49] a queue thing, um, this year.
[00:44:51] And so I was just like, ah, you get like 10 minutes on the website.
[00:44:54] And I'm just like, oh my God.
[00:44:55] I just like click on every screening.
[00:44:57] I'm like, I took it sold out.
[00:44:58] Oh no.
[00:44:58] I just go to the next day and ticket.
[00:44:59] Oh yeah, we got one.
[00:45:00] Um, so yeah, had a lot of fun.
[00:45:02] Check it out.
[00:45:02] Nice.
[00:45:02] Awesome.
[00:45:03] Uh, I'll throw out there too, that, uh, the reason I couldn't see Joker two until, uh,
[00:45:06] a week after was because the Montana film festival was happening and, uh, I'll, I'll shout
[00:45:10] out two movies that will be released in the relatively near future that people can go
[00:45:14] check out.
[00:45:15] These were highlights of the fest for me.
[00:45:16] I had already seen everything in the festival cause I was helping to program it, but I did
[00:45:20] get to go to a rap world, which, uh, I did a Q and a with a Harris Meyerson,
[00:45:24] the producer of the film.
[00:45:25] This is the new, uh, Connor O'Malley movie, uh, who stars and directs, uh, the movie as well.
[00:45:30] It's about three bumbling idiots, uh, who, uh, are over the course of one night are attempted
[00:45:35] to record a rap album, uh, in the year 2009 in Pennsylvania.
[00:45:39] And, uh, it's hilarious.
[00:45:40] It's so, so fun and, uh, so great to watch with the crowd.
[00:45:43] Uh, I think it is going to be released on YouTube, uh, towards the end of October.
[00:45:46] Uh, so you can watch it there, but I highly recommend getting some friends together to
[00:45:50] watch it.
[00:45:50] Uh, or if you have the chance to watch it in a theater, you should, uh, there's so many
[00:45:54] like huge laugh out loud moments.
[00:45:55] It's very, very funny.
[00:45:56] Uh, I also want to mention Ephus, which we were showing at the Montana film festival.
[00:46:00] It was only screening once our power went out and we couldn't show it.
[00:46:03] No, what?
[00:46:04] Uh, which was a real bummer.
[00:46:05] So we had to give everybody admit one passes and like apologize and all that kind of stuff.
[00:46:09] But our power eventually came back and we had just enough time as a staff to watch Ephus
[00:46:14] before the next Russian movies came in.
[00:46:16] Amazing.
[00:46:16] So a bunch of the Roxy staff got together and we watched Ephus during the festival, uh,
[00:46:20] which again, I had seen once before, but watching it again, I was like, man, the movies,
[00:46:24] baby.
[00:46:24] Uh, yeah.
[00:46:26] Ephus, uh, which is coming out in March.
[00:46:28] It's, it has like a March release date now is about a bunch of guys in New Hampshire,
[00:46:32] uh, in the nineties, uh, and they're playing a baseball game.
[00:46:35] Uh, and the entire movie is just their game and it's the last game they're ever going to
[00:46:39] play on this field before it gets torn down.
[00:46:41] Uh, and it's, uh, incredibly funny and incredibly sentimental and, uh, really, really fun.
[00:46:45] So yeah, Ephus, it's great.
[00:46:47] People should watch that too.
[00:46:48] Amazing.
[00:46:48] Um, yeah, I was going to say something about, Oh, Conor Romantley that, uh, I think he's,
[00:46:52] he's put, he put out another movie earlier this year on his YouTube channel.
[00:46:55] And then I think also a standup special earlier this year.
[00:46:58] He definitely has a new standup special.
[00:46:59] Yeah.
[00:46:59] Yeah.
[00:46:59] I think Conor's is the name of the movie.
[00:47:01] Uh, and I, I've heard it's like a body horror thing or something like it has elements of
[00:47:06] that.
[00:47:07] Um, but I didn't, I haven't checked it out, but I've heard he's, he's been putting out a
[00:47:10] lot, I guess is interesting, you know?
[00:47:12] Oh yeah.
[00:47:12] He's constantly working and he's been popping up in other movies too.
[00:47:14] I mean, he's, uh, has a role in bodies, bodies, bodies towards, he's like the one,
[00:47:18] I think he's the guy who left the end.
[00:47:20] Yeah.
[00:47:21] Like left the party the day before and then shows up at the very end.
[00:47:23] He's also in, I saw the TV glow.
[00:47:24] Yeah.
[00:47:25] Um, at the, at, at the end of that movie, he's like Owen's boss, uh, or whatever.
[00:47:28] Right.
[00:47:29] Yeah.
[00:47:29] Um, so yeah, he's in it.
[00:47:30] He's been popping up at a bunch of stuff and getting to talk to Harris, uh, was really
[00:47:33] cool.
[00:47:33] Cause he's been working with Conor, uh, for a long time.
[00:47:35] They went to college together in Chicago.
[00:47:36] Uh, and they were talking about like, Oh yeah, we're all pals, like all pals with like Sarah
[00:47:39] Sherman and like Jane Shumbrun and all those people.
[00:47:42] So, uh, it was kind of cool to hear some of those stories.
[00:47:44] That was pretty neat.
[00:47:45] Um, but, uh, in any case, yeah.
[00:47:46] I rap world and EVIS two highlights of MTFF for me.
[00:47:49] Uh, and they kept me from seeing Joker for an extra couple of days and I appreciate them
[00:47:53] for that.
[00:47:54] You could have lived in that bliss forever.
[00:47:55] We would have never done this.
[00:47:57] Yes.
[00:47:57] Uh, I mean, you know, it's a weird thing where I was gonna say, let's skip the Joker episode
[00:48:03] and then you saw it and I was like, well, we have to do the Joker.
[00:48:07] I know this is the one time I'll be able to get Mike D to talk about Joker too.
[00:48:11] Cause I assume after this episode, it's leaving your brain forever.
[00:48:14] Oh yeah.
[00:48:14] No, I'm going to give myself a lobotomy and forget.
[00:48:16] About the whole, the whole thing.
[00:48:19] This whole experience is behind me now.
[00:48:22] I'm a new man now.
[00:48:23] Exactly.
[00:48:24] All right.
[00:48:25] And then from there, superhero movies, big question mark.
[00:48:28] Dead forever?
[00:48:29] Dead forever.
[00:48:30] Well, you know, not dead forever, Mike, cause, uh, Venom, the last dance comes out in a
[00:48:33] couple of weeks.
[00:48:33] Oh, I did also just watch Venom, let there be carnage for the first time.
[00:48:37] Yes.
[00:48:38] Why?
[00:48:38] Um, my friends while I was in LA.
[00:48:40] Why would you do that?
[00:48:41] In the discord.
[00:48:42] Yeah.
[00:48:42] I double featured Joker falling into it and Venom, let there be carnage.
[00:48:46] No.
[00:48:46] Um, my friends while I was in LA in that discord that I'm always talking about had watched Venom
[00:48:51] one cause they're getting ready for Venom three, Venom horse or whatever.
[00:48:55] Yeah.
[00:48:55] Venom horse.
[00:48:55] Yeah.
[00:48:56] There's a frog too.
[00:48:57] I saw that actually.
[00:48:58] Yeah.
[00:48:59] Um, so they watched it.
[00:49:01] I think it's on max or HBO max or whatever.
[00:49:03] Um, and apparently Venom, let there be carnage, not available, not streaming, not available
[00:49:07] to rent doesn't exist.
[00:49:08] Really?
[00:49:09] That's wild.
[00:49:10] Or at least not available for free.
[00:49:11] I assume.
[00:49:11] So they reached out to me and we're like, Hey, when you come back, can we watch Venom too?
[00:49:16] Do you have means?
[00:49:17] And I was like, I guess I have means.
[00:49:18] I'll fine.
[00:49:19] I'll watch it with you guys.
[00:49:20] So that's why I watched the second one, which is like stupid.
[00:49:24] I don't know.
[00:49:25] Like it's fun.
[00:49:25] It's fun in the like, yes, queen coming out story allegory thing that's going on in those
[00:49:30] movies.
[00:49:31] I do like Venom hanging out at a rave for a while.
[00:49:34] Yeah.
[00:49:34] It's pretty fun.
[00:49:34] On the mic and is like, live your truest life.
[00:49:37] You know, nobody, we don't live forever or whatever the fuck he's saying.
[00:49:40] Uh, be yourself, love wins or whatever.
[00:49:43] Uh, which is very funny.
[00:49:44] And everyone thinking coming up to him and be like, Oh my God, I love your costume.
[00:49:48] And then it cut hard cuts to him and all the glow sticks.
[00:49:50] Very, very funny.
[00:49:52] Um, but that's like a good five minutes out of this hour and a half movie.
[00:49:55] Uh, and just like, what is, what is Naomi Harris doing?
[00:49:58] Normally I love Naomi Harris.
[00:50:00] Sure.
[00:50:00] What's Woody Harrelson doing?
[00:50:02] I love Woody Harrelson.
[00:50:03] Uh, who is the, uh, Michelle Williams?
[00:50:07] Yeah.
[00:50:07] What is she doing?
[00:50:07] What's that guy from Veep doing?
[00:50:09] Right.
[00:50:11] Um, I mean, I saw Venom 2 in theaters.
[00:50:13] I didn't hate it.
[00:50:14] Um, I didn't hate it either, but you know, it's okay.
[00:50:16] I think I liked it about as much as I liked the first one.
[00:50:19] Yeah.
[00:50:19] You know, they're, they're both okay.
[00:50:21] They're fine.
[00:50:21] They're both fine.
[00:50:22] I still, I still, they're vehicles to just watch Tom Hardy go nuts.
[00:50:25] And in that respect, they both succeed.
[00:50:28] That's pretty cool.
[00:50:28] I did.
[00:50:29] I did like that.
[00:50:30] A lot of the movie is, uh, I should know the actor's name, but I don't.
[00:50:33] It's Tom Hardy.
[00:50:34] The guy who plays the cop, who was Al Capone in Boardwalk Empire.
[00:50:37] Yeah.
[00:50:38] Stephen Graham.
[00:50:38] Stephen Graham.
[00:50:39] Who's back in Venom 3?
[00:50:40] Two people from England or the UK doing weird American voices.
[00:50:44] Yes.
[00:50:45] Sharing lots of scenes together, which is pretty fun.
[00:50:48] Um, yes.
[00:50:49] So there's that.
[00:50:49] And, and I think a lot of my reaction to, to Venom is like, we're all kind of joking,
[00:50:54] right?
[00:50:54] Like these movies aren't that good.
[00:50:56] Right.
[00:50:57] Yeah.
[00:50:57] We're, we're going just to like, it's, it's kind of a goof.
[00:50:59] Yeah.
[00:51:00] It's kind of a goof.
[00:51:01] Yeah.
[00:51:01] So yeah.
[00:51:02] What's interesting about Venom 3, uh, is that I was kind of looking at the cast list a little,
[00:51:06] a little bit ago.
[00:51:07] Uh, Mrs. Chen is back in the movie.
[00:51:09] She's great.
[00:51:10] Love her.
[00:51:10] Yeah.
[00:51:10] She's great.
[00:51:11] Michelle Williams is not.
[00:51:12] What?
[00:51:13] And you know, I think it's very funny that like, you know, it's more important to them that Mrs.
[00:51:17] Chen is in this movie.
[00:51:18] Yeah.
[00:51:19] Yeah.
[00:51:19] Then Tom Hardy's romantic love interest in the first two movies.
[00:51:21] She's definitely going to die off screen.
[00:51:23] A hundred percent.
[00:51:24] Oh yeah.
[00:51:24] I think, I think I, I think in this one, like Venom's on some kind of road trip or like
[00:51:28] he's not, he's not in his usual San Francisco spots.
[00:51:30] That's true.
[00:51:30] You're right.
[00:51:31] Spots.
[00:51:32] Right.
[00:51:32] Cause he just returned from the multiverse from no way home and did all that stuff.
[00:51:36] So yeah, that's going on.
[00:51:37] So it did explain, this movie did explain to me why.
[00:51:40] It was a post credit scene from no way home.
[00:51:41] In no way home, why he's on a beach with a tiki drink or whatever, or at the tiki bar or
[00:51:45] whatever.
[00:51:46] Yeah.
[00:51:46] Um, which is pretty funny.
[00:51:47] Yeah.
[00:51:48] That is, it is very funny to me that like they set it up, they have that post credit, that
[00:51:51] movie came out, let them in current like, like two months before no way home did.
[00:51:54] Yeah.
[00:51:55] Uh, and so I saw Venom two in theaters and I saw that post credit scene and I was like,
[00:51:58] Oh shit, they're bringing Venom into the, the Marvel universe.
[00:52:02] Surely he will play some kind of role in Spider-Man no way home.
[00:52:06] Yeah.
[00:52:06] He'll be one of the villains he encounters or something.
[00:52:16] Like I guess at least they follow it up on it.
[00:52:17] There are several other post credit scenes that have not been followed up on, but it
[00:52:20] is weird that it's like, Oh yeah.
[00:52:22] It just in the span of two seconds, it's, it's done.
[00:52:24] We finished that.
[00:52:25] Anyway, superhero movie is bad.
[00:52:28] We're done with them.
[00:52:29] We don't, yeah.
[00:52:29] I mean, I think, uh, this, this year we're going to have Venom three and then also Craven
[00:52:32] the Hunter in like December.
[00:52:34] That's, that's going to be, that's going to be the death knell.
[00:52:35] That's going to be.
[00:52:36] What if Craven rules?
[00:52:38] How wild would that be?
[00:52:40] I would love nothing more than for Craven the Hunter to rule.
[00:52:42] I just, I don't think it's going to happen.
[00:52:45] The like three times delayed Craven the Hunter movie.
[00:52:48] Yeah.
[00:52:48] I'm a big Craven guy.
[00:52:49] I love.
[00:52:50] You are a big Craven guy.
[00:52:51] I love Craven the Hunter.
[00:52:52] I, every time there's been a new Spider-Man movie, I was like, all right, this is the time.
[00:52:55] Craven the Hunter has got to be the villain and they never do it.
[00:52:58] I, if they had not gone the multiverse route with no way home, I think he would have been
[00:53:02] the next logical step to be a villain in Spider-Man three in the, in Tom Holland, Spider-Man three.
[00:53:07] Yeah.
[00:53:07] Because at that point, like the hook at the end of far from home is that his identity
[00:53:10] has been revealed to the world.
[00:53:12] So it's like, Oh, now Craven can hunt him down.
[00:53:14] And instead they did the other thing.
[00:53:17] And now Craven has his own movie with now Spider-Man.
[00:53:19] Wild.
[00:53:20] Just a, just a massive fumble in every respect.
[00:53:22] But in any case, Joker, fall out due.
[00:53:24] It's not that good.
[00:53:25] Not that good.
[00:53:25] Worth a skip.
[00:53:26] Go see hardcore instead.
[00:53:27] Go see hardcore at the Alamo draft house at one 30 instead.
[00:53:32] Uh, all right.
[00:53:33] Mike D I think that's going to wrap up our Joker fall out due episode.
[00:53:35] Where can we find you online this week?
[00:53:37] You can find me at MD film blog on Twitter and letterboxd and blue sky.
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[00:53:53] We don't care.
[00:53:54] Absolutely.
[00:53:54] Yeah.
[00:53:57] Within reason.
[00:53:58] Uh, and if you want merch, we have merch available on our red bubble, which is Mike and Mike
[00:54:02] pods dot red bubble.com.
[00:54:03] That's right.
[00:54:03] You can find me online at M Smith film log on Twitter, Mike Smith film on letterboxd and
[00:54:07] radio Mike sandwich and Instagram.
[00:54:08] Uh, thanks so much for listening to Mike.
[00:54:10] My go to the movies.
[00:54:10] I'm Mike Smith.
[00:54:11] It's my decree show.
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[00:54:24] Check out the main podcast, the complete works to keep up with all of our Roy Scheider movies.
[00:54:28] And that is the end of this week's episode of Mike and Mike go to the movies.
[00:54:30] We will see you on the other side.
[00:54:32] Bye.
[00:54:32] Bye.