It's time for another Mike Makes Mike Watch! This time around, Mike D is making Smith watch Takashi Miike's AUDITION, while Smith is making Mike D finally get around to Martin Scorsese's THE IRISHMAN!
[00:00:02] Let's get together, talk about the movies that we saw this week. We'll have discussions, talk film news, we'll laugh a lot and act like geeks. Sometimes we'll have a guest or two, sometimes it's just the two of us. Let's crack some jokes and tell some folks to come along and hang with us!
[00:00:12] Mike and
[00:00:26] Chosen wisely
[00:00:28] Hello and welcome to the podcast that does not really exist and is just a thin excuse to meet hundreds of girls. I'm sure they'll be here any minute now.
[00:00:38] It's Mike and Mike going to the movies. I'm Mike Smith and joining me as always is someone who showed up 15 minutes late for a meeting wearing fucking shorts.
[00:00:46] Mike Tuccio.
[00:00:47] How are you doing, Mike?
[00:00:48] I'm doing great. I was gonna make a joke about everyone knows you get into podcasting for the women where there's that whole Muppet history thing going on right now.
[00:00:57] That is the most absurd thing that's ever happened.
[00:01:01] In all my years of being on Twitter.
[00:01:04] And it's been many of absurd things in our years on Twitter.
[00:01:10] Yeah, for those who don't know what Mike D is talking about, there's an account on Twitter.
[00:01:13] I don't even know what I'm talking about.
[00:01:14] Yeah, I only have like a vague awareness of what it is, but from what I can piece together, because I did follow the Muppet history account.
[00:01:20] It's like, oh, they're tweeting pictures of Muppets. I like Muppets.
[00:01:22] Yeah, the Muppet history account and the guy who runs it, I guess has been like DMing like girls, like inappropriate, like sexual content or whatever.
[00:01:30] And I guess his wife was like overseeing him doing it. Like they were like, she was like approving all.
[00:01:34] I don't know. There's a lot of weird shit that was happening.
[00:01:37] Hell yeah.
[00:01:38] Yeah. All I know is Robert Evans, host of Behind the Bastards podcast, tweeted that we've officially calculated the smallest amount of power a person can go mad with.
[00:01:47] And it's running the Muppet history account on Twitter.
[00:01:50] And I think that really sums it all up.
[00:01:52] I think so. Yeah.
[00:01:53] The first thing I saw about it was their apology.
[00:01:56] Yeah.
[00:01:57] And the apology didn't mention what had happened.
[00:02:00] So I was like just a glancing through it.
[00:02:02] It was so long.
[00:02:03] I was like, what?
[00:02:03] What is this about?
[00:02:04] What is it?
[00:02:04] What's happening?
[00:02:05] Yeah.
[00:02:06] Am I crazy?
[00:02:09] Yeah, I saw something that was just like Muppet history allegation, whatever.
[00:02:13] It was like a like a two, like a one sentence summary.
[00:02:15] And it was just like, if you understood this, please log off.
[00:02:17] Yeah.
[00:02:18] It's like, yeah, it's fair.
[00:02:20] I think that's totally fair.
[00:02:22] Yeah.
[00:02:22] So what we're saying is one of the movies is pretty resonant, you know?
[00:02:25] Yes.
[00:02:25] I think that's fair enough.
[00:02:27] Yeah.
[00:02:27] What's been going on with you, Mike?
[00:02:29] What's going on?
[00:02:29] How was Thanksgiving?
[00:02:30] Thanksgiving was great.
[00:02:32] Pretty low key.
[00:02:32] We have some bi-coastal family going on.
[00:02:36] So some family went out to LA.
[00:02:38] Some families stayed here.
[00:02:39] So it was just a few of us, I think like 10 of us.
[00:02:42] I heard that were here in New York and we had a little low key, watched some football,
[00:02:46] ate some turkey, did the American thing on Thanksgiving.
[00:02:50] Yes.
[00:02:50] Yeah.
[00:02:50] Fair enough.
[00:02:50] What about you?
[00:02:51] It was good.
[00:02:52] Yeah.
[00:02:52] I actually went to a friend's house and hung out with their family all day and they had
[00:02:56] two turkeys.
[00:02:57] Hell yeah.
[00:02:57] They deep fried one of them, which was a man.
[00:03:00] You ever had deep fried turkey?
[00:03:02] It's pretty good.
[00:03:02] I've never had it.
[00:03:03] It's definitely been on the bucket list as far as Thanksgiving food goes, I guess.
[00:03:09] Sure.
[00:03:09] But real dangerous.
[00:03:11] So you know what?
[00:03:11] I'm good.
[00:03:12] Yeah.
[00:03:13] Or I will let somebody else do it.
[00:03:14] Yeah.
[00:03:15] Somebody who, yeah, has done it before at least.
[00:03:17] Yeah.
[00:03:18] No, that was good.
[00:03:19] Had a good Thanksgiving and then went to go watch The Last Waltz at the Roxy.
[00:03:23] And yeah, it was a good like, actually I ended up doing a Scorsese double.
[00:03:26] I watched The Last Waltz and then I came home and I watched The Irishman to prepare
[00:03:30] for this podcast.
[00:03:31] That's a lot of movie.
[00:03:32] Yes.
[00:03:33] Absolutely.
[00:03:33] That's a good five and a half hours of a Scorsese movie right there.
[00:03:37] And both kind of his Thanksgiving movies in a weird way.
[00:03:40] Right.
[00:03:41] Last Waltz, of course, takes place like on Thanksgiving or day after Thanksgiving, I think.
[00:03:44] I think Thanksgiving Day or something.
[00:03:46] I think it's Thanksgiving Day.
[00:03:47] Yeah.
[00:03:48] And then The Irishman, not necessarily a Thanksgiving movie, but it was released on Netflix like
[00:03:53] the day before Thanksgiving 2019.
[00:03:55] Okay.
[00:03:56] So I remember watching it.
[00:03:57] Well, I saw it in a theater a few weeks earlier, but I remember on Thanksgiving, I went
[00:04:02] to my family's house.
[00:04:02] I was hanging out with my uncles and they were like, hey, did you watch The Irishman yet?
[00:04:06] And like four of them had, and it had been out for like less than 24 hours.
[00:04:10] Hell yeah.
[00:04:12] Anyway, all that is to say, one of the movies we're talking about today is The Irishman,
[00:04:15] but it's a Mike makes Mike watch.
[00:04:17] So it's one of those situations where I'm making Mike D watch something and he is making
[00:04:21] me watch something.
[00:04:21] So I made Mike D watch The Irishman, which I feel like has sort of been a long time coming,
[00:04:26] but I was like, it was one of the things like I can't in good conscious make him make
[00:04:29] him watch a three and a half hour movie.
[00:04:31] He has to do that on his own.
[00:04:32] Yeah.
[00:04:32] And eventually I was like, fuck it.
[00:04:33] I got, I got to make him watch The Irishman.
[00:04:34] It's been five years.
[00:04:35] It wasn't going to happen.
[00:04:36] It's time.
[00:04:37] It's time.
[00:04:37] And then you made me watch Takashi Miike's audition.
[00:04:40] Yeah.
[00:04:41] I just figured, you know, for the holidays, some light family.
[00:04:46] Yeah.
[00:04:47] Just something chill and fun for the holidays.
[00:04:50] Yeah.
[00:04:50] So we're going to be talking about those two movies today.
[00:04:52] And then we're going to get it that we're going to get out.
[00:04:55] That's that's how the Mike makes Mike watch works.
[00:04:58] Yeah.
[00:04:58] We do this.
[00:04:59] We do that one thing and then we're done.
[00:05:01] Yes, absolutely.
[00:05:02] So which of these movies would you talk about first, Mike?
[00:05:04] I think let's do audition first.
[00:05:06] Okay.
[00:05:07] Yeah.
[00:05:08] You look like you're about to say something else.
[00:05:10] I was trying to think of a reason why, and I can't really think of one other than I
[00:05:17] feel like just maybe the breadth of Irishman.
[00:05:19] We're going to need more time.
[00:05:19] So let's start with the shorter one first.
[00:05:21] Sure.
[00:05:22] I think that's fair.
[00:05:22] I mean, yeah, there's not really like, there's not like a lighter one to start
[00:05:25] or to end with or whatever, right?
[00:05:27] They both end.
[00:05:28] You feel a sense of existential dread at the end of both of them.
[00:05:31] Yeah.
[00:05:32] Yeah.
[00:05:33] We try to do.
[00:05:33] I mean, we don't like we since we come up with these movies that we're going to make
[00:05:37] each other watch independent of each other.
[00:05:38] We can't be like, well, we planned a double feature or whatever.
[00:05:41] We often try to like jokingly come up with some stretch some thematic continuity between
[00:05:46] the two movies.
[00:05:47] If I was to do a double feature of these.
[00:05:49] Right.
[00:05:50] Um, but you know, these are both pretty downer movies, downer endings that you can't be
[00:05:54] like, well, we'll start at the dark one and then we'll watch the light one or whatever.
[00:05:57] Yep.
[00:05:57] And I can't particularly think of any thematic through lines that might run between the
[00:06:01] two films other than despair or whatever, I guess broadly.
[00:06:05] But yeah, I think just, just on length, let's do audition first.
[00:06:08] Yeah.
[00:06:08] All right, let's do it.
[00:06:09] It's time for a Mike makes Mike watch.
[00:06:12] I hope they choose right.
[00:06:14] Mike's watching Mike's movie.
[00:06:19] Whoa.
[00:06:40] I told you to my son.
[00:06:42] I've been here recently, so I've been here to the last one.
[00:07:53] I don't want to make it anymore, right?
[00:07:55] All right.
[00:08:01] That was in the trailer for Audition from 1999, directed by Takashi Miike.
[00:08:06] And Mike D, why did you want to make me watch Audition?
[00:08:09] What if I was just a little freak?
[00:08:11] What if that's, what if that's the answer?
[00:08:14] What if I'm just a little guy that wanted to torture you on Thanksgiving?
[00:08:18] Let me rephrase the question.
[00:08:19] How dare you make me watch Audition?
[00:08:23] Exactly.
[00:08:24] That's what I'm saying.
[00:08:25] No, I don't know.
[00:08:26] I think it's, it's one of those sort of modern tentpole horror films that is sort of talked
[00:08:33] about a lot.
[00:08:34] Well, you know, highly regarded.
[00:08:36] And I know you hadn't seen it yet.
[00:08:37] I also hadn't seen it, I think until this year or maybe last year.
[00:08:40] I think we both have the arrow Blu-ray, right?
[00:08:42] Yes.
[00:08:43] Yeah.
[00:08:43] That's how I watched it.
[00:08:43] Yeah.
[00:08:44] So I knew you had it.
[00:08:46] I had just watched it.
[00:08:46] It was like, it's one of those things where we've talked about a lot on Mike and Mike go
[00:08:50] to the movies broadly where you're like, yeah, I'll get to this eventually.
[00:08:53] And then you watch it and you're like, oh yeah, that is one of the best movies ever made.
[00:08:56] Like, yeah, confirmed.
[00:08:58] Yeah.
[00:08:59] So I had just watched it, like I said, either this year, I don't remember exactly when,
[00:09:02] earlier this year or sometime in 2023.
[00:09:04] And I was like, you know what?
[00:09:06] I'm just going to make Mike watch it.
[00:09:07] It's time.
[00:09:08] Yeah.
[00:09:08] Fair enough.
[00:09:09] It has been on my list for a long time.
[00:09:11] I've wanted to watch it for a while.
[00:09:12] I'd heard a lot about it.
[00:09:13] I liked Takashi Miike in general.
[00:09:15] There's no way I could be a completionist because he has made over 100 films as a director.
[00:09:19] Yeah.
[00:09:19] I did watch his 100th, which was Blade of the Immortal, which is okay.
[00:09:24] He's got, just because we were talking about Arrow Blu-rays for audition, they have a box
[00:09:31] set that I think it's the, oh, maybe, oh, I forget exactly.
[00:09:35] There's like a trilogy.
[00:09:36] There's like a name for it.
[00:09:37] I forget if it's like the Black Triad trilogy or Black Society trilogy or something like
[00:09:41] that.
[00:09:41] And it's his first three movies, theatrical films.
[00:09:44] Oh, really?
[00:09:44] Okay.
[00:09:45] And they're all sort of about like, you know, just Japanese underground criminal stories.
[00:09:50] They're not like sequels or directly connected just other that they all take place in this,
[00:09:54] you know, under criminal underworld kind of thing.
[00:09:57] And they've all fucking rule.
[00:09:58] They're really good.
[00:09:59] And so there's a box set of that at Arrow is all I wanted to point out.
[00:10:02] Very cool.
[00:10:02] Yeah.
[00:10:02] But no, my, my first Takashi Miike film was 13 assassins, which I saw when that came
[00:10:06] out and really, really dug that movie, had a lot of fun with that.
[00:10:09] And so, yeah, he's one of those directors who have kind of popped in on here and there.
[00:10:13] He has some bigger movies.
[00:10:14] I still haven't gotten the chance to see that I've never seen the each of the killer yet,
[00:10:16] which is, I think I have that Blu-ray actually also.
[00:10:19] So eventually I'm gonna get around to that.
[00:10:20] But yeah, audition had been on my list for a long time.
[00:10:22] I kind of built up reputation.
[00:10:24] I've seen people talk about it quite a bit.
[00:10:26] And I believe it showed up in the shutter like 100 scariest movie moments thing.
[00:10:31] Yes.
[00:10:32] And so I, a lot of the talk about audition is talking sort of about the twist in audition,
[00:10:38] which we are going to spoil in this episode, obviously.
[00:10:41] And we're going to do so basically right now.
[00:10:42] So just a heads up.
[00:10:43] If you've never seen audition, you want to go in completely blind,
[00:10:46] go watch it and then come back.
[00:10:47] But yeah, so I will say I was kind of aware that there was a twist and I kind of knew sort of what it was.
[00:10:55] But it had been a long time since I didn't have heard anybody like specifically say it.
[00:10:59] So I was like, I was kind of waiting for whatever was going to happen.
[00:11:02] But the twist is that she's a serial killer, essentially.
[00:11:04] Yeah.
[00:11:05] That the girl is, you know, that he is dating for the entire movie.
[00:11:10] Turns out to be a psychotic serial killer, you know, with a deeply traumatic past.
[00:11:16] Yeah.
[00:11:16] You kind of learn more about as the movie goes on to this movie, like sort of goes in the like good for her category.
[00:11:22] A little bit.
[00:11:23] Kind of.
[00:11:24] Which is wild.
[00:11:25] But yeah, also, I was not particularly, I mean, I knew that that happened also the first time I watched it.
[00:11:32] Like that there was this twist or this reveal, but I didn't realize like how or why or any, like completely devoid of context.
[00:11:38] When I started the movie, I had the feeling of like, well, I have this image in my head of what I know this movie builds to.
[00:11:44] But like, how the fuck are we going to get from this hospital scene?
[00:11:49] Right.
[00:11:49] The openings to this other thing.
[00:11:51] Yeah.
[00:11:51] So I think even if you do are aware of the twist, I think the movie does is still preserved.
[00:11:56] Yeah.
[00:11:56] One of those movies that once you know it, it's like over.
[00:11:58] No, I agree.
[00:11:59] And also one of the things that, you know, this movie is always categorized as a horror movie.
[00:12:03] Yes.
[00:12:03] Where, you know, it's if you look on Wikipedia, it says a Japanese horror film.
[00:12:06] If you go on shutter, it's there, you know, it's, it's, you know, it's considered a horror film.
[00:12:11] And like all any kind of writing about the film mentions it as a horror movie.
[00:12:15] But when you actually just start it and start watching it, it's not really a horror movie until like an hour in.
[00:12:20] Yeah.
[00:12:21] It's like almost a romantic comedy in a weird way.
[00:12:24] Or just a fucked up weird drama, you know?
[00:12:26] Yeah.
[00:12:27] It's, you know, it's, it's a weird drama, almost a rom-com.
[00:12:31] Yeah.
[00:12:31] But obviously it's, it's trying to do something very different and then it just turns into something else.
[00:12:35] Yeah.
[00:12:36] And to that end, I find it, I found it really fascinating too.
[00:12:38] All that is to say, had a blast with audition.
[00:12:41] Nice.
[00:12:41] This movie is terrific.
[00:12:42] It is harrowing.
[00:12:44] It is the, uh, so, so when the, uh, the other shoe drops and you realize, I mean, I think it's a weird thing where like they kind of start hinting very early on that something is off with this girl.
[00:12:55] Right?
[00:12:55] Yeah.
[00:12:56] Yeah.
[00:12:56] I mean the, the whole plot of the movie is just crazy, right?
[00:13:00] The guys.
[00:13:00] Oh, sure.
[00:13:01] The protagonist who I haven't seen in a while.
[00:13:03] So I don't really remember anybody's names.
[00:13:06] And then it's like 10 years later or something, right?
[00:13:09] I remember, or there is a significant time jump.
[00:13:11] And, uh, he's, he hasn't been, he hasn't reentered the dating pool or anything.
[00:13:14] He hasn't had a relationship since then.
[00:13:16] And he's a film producer.
[00:13:17] And one of his friends has the idea, Hey, what if we fake produce a movie and host auditions?
[00:13:22] And you could, uh, interview them like a job interview kind of for girlfriends.
[00:13:26] And this, you can meet women like that.
[00:13:28] And he meets this one woman that seems to meet his old, all of his, uh, check all his boxes, so to speak.
[00:13:34] Uh, and he begins a relationship with her under the pretense of being the producer for this movie.
[00:13:38] And then the twist happens.
[00:13:41] But I, yeah, absolutely.
[00:13:42] I do remember there being like time jumps and weird cuts and stuff like that, that just kind of let you out, like, uh, let you know that like something's not what it seems.
[00:13:52] And you're like, just like a, Whoa, I'm a little off kilter, you know?
[00:13:55] Yes.
[00:13:55] Kind of thing.
[00:13:56] Yeah.
[00:13:57] And so he starts dating this girl and you know, every once in a while it kind of cuts back just her in her apartment.
[00:14:02] Yeah.
[00:14:02] Uh, with this bag in the background.
[00:14:04] Yeah.
[00:14:04] There's this bag in the background.
[00:14:05] You're like, what the hell's in that bag?
[00:14:06] Uh, and then she, you just see her like staring at her phone, like for hours on end, just waiting for him to call.
[00:14:11] And, uh, so it's very clear, like something's not right here.
[00:14:14] Something's a little iffy.
[00:14:16] And then, yeah, no, you, you learn more about her past and how fucked up and weird it is.
[00:14:21] And she, uh, just to destroys this guy.
[00:14:24] The torture scenes at the end of the movie are some of the craziest shit I've ever seen.
[00:14:30] Yeah.
[00:14:30] I just remember there being a moment earlier in the film and I don't particularly, I may have invented it where like they, they reference like a paralytic plant.
[00:14:39] Right.
[00:14:40] Or something like that.
[00:14:41] Uh, so that an hour later when the torture stuff starts, you're like, Oh my God, the plant, like it all clicks.
[00:14:50] Uh, or the tea or whatever she serves it to him in.
[00:14:53] Uh, and it's just like, God damn.
[00:14:55] But yeah, I mean, I also, I think my first Takashi Miike film that I saw was also, uh, 13 assassins or at least the first one I saw that was like, this is a Takashi Miike film, you know?
[00:15:04] Yeah. Um, and, uh, I kind of thought they would all be like that. You know, you just sort of base your first opinion on that. Like, Oh yeah, this is sort of like a serious, straightforward historical drama that explodes into this kind of intense action samurai stuff. And then you watch a lot of his other things. It's like none, none of them are like that.
[00:15:22] Yeah. I mean, that's, what's interesting about Takashi Miike as a filmmaker is he does so many different things. He's always bouncing around. He's constantly working. I mean, that's why he has over 100 films to his name.
[00:15:33] Right.
[00:15:33] You know, it's, it's so nuts how quickly he's able to work, how he's able to put out several movies a year. He's got manga adaptations. He's got video game adaptations. He did the Ace Attorney movie.
[00:15:42] Yeah.
[00:15:43] Um, you know, all that kind of stuff. Uh, I don't think he's ever made an English language film, uh, but he's been just kind of constantly working, uh, in Japan and men, uh, you know, he has horror stuff.
[00:15:52] Like audition, like each of the killer, but he's also got light comedies and he's got, you know, just, he does, he's done like everything at this point.
[00:15:58] Yeah.
[00:15:59] Uh, which is, is really fascinating. You don't really get that with, uh, a lot of American filmmakers where, yeah, I mean, a lot of times what happens with a director is they sort of get kind of put into like one genre, especially horror directors.
[00:16:10] Right.
[00:16:10] Where it's like, Oh, Robert Eggers is making a movie. Well, it's a horror movie.
[00:16:14] Yeah. Yeah. It's a intense, his period, accurate horror drama.
[00:16:19] Right.
[00:16:19] Right. And so, and so like, even like when he branches out into something like the Northman, which is not really a horror movie, but has horror elements to it. You know, that movie was, uh, you know, not as well liked as, um, uh, his previous two movies, the witch in the lighthouse, even though the Northman fucking rips.
[00:16:34] Absolutely.
[00:16:35] A great movie. Uh, but now he's going back to, as soon as Northman bombs, he went back to horror. He's doing Nosferatu now.
[00:16:40] Yep. You know?
[00:16:42] Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's, uh, I guess it's just a different, uh, different world, different industry that, you know, not every movie has to be a billion dollar success. It can just be a whatever, you know, live its own life. And, um, that said audition, you know, kind of feels like the precursor foundational text for a lot of the torture porn stuff we get in the aughts. Right.
[00:17:02] This, I feel like that's fair predates that stuff, obviously. Uh, and, and sets up a lot of it, I think, or influences it rather. Yeah. But yeah, that I remember watching that, the film in it, and you just sort of slowly get sucked into this just like weird otherworldly, like, oh yeah, this is, this is like we were saying like this kind of weird relationship drama thing.
[00:17:23] And something just feels strange and weird. And then it just gets weirder and weirder and weirder and weirder until we're in the needles and piano wire and stuff. Uh, so yeah. But the movie is also kind of like playing with like your perception of what is real and what's not real. Yeah. Like during all this too. Did you rewatch it before you, uh, I did not have a chance to rewatch it, but there's a couple of scenes that do stand out to me, but, uh, yeah, but there's a lot of like kind of cutting back and forth and it's kind of flashing forward and flashing back, uh, to different things. Uh, and sometimes
[00:17:53] like, you know, you're watching like a torture scene and then suddenly like your main character wakes up and he's like in bed with, uh, Asami, the, the woman. Uh, and you know, it's, it's like, oh, was that actually happening? Was that a nightmare that he was having? Uh, you don't really know. Uh, and then it kind of cuts back to the torture and he's, and so it's clearly still happening. Uh, there's a lot of like, uh, your perception of what is and isn't happening is, is kind of played with a lot in this movie.
[00:18:23] And they're sitting there and it's like kind of this conversation. And Asami, I remember is like the, the very like ideal submissive, quiet Japanese wife kind of thing, right? That he's looking for. And she's playing that, right? Cause she's trapping him basically. Uh, and they're at this restaurant or whatever, coffee or whatever it is. Uh, and it like kind of cuts to this wide shot where you could see the restaurant is full. And then all of a sudden one cut, the re it's, it's nighttime. The restaurant's empty and they're the only two people there. Uh, and I was just like, Whoa, like a whole, like in the middle of a conversation, one sentence, like there's no, like,
[00:18:53] it's just a very odd, like one of those things that just puts you off, you know, off center, off kilter a little bit of like, what is happening? What's, what you're talking about? What's real? What's dreams? What's, what's going on? And that's just like movies, baby. You know, like as a director, you use in cinematic language to make you feel things. And I was like, Oh, I'll never forget what they took from us. You know? Yeah, absolutely. Uh, yeah. And throughout the movie, he is like meeting people from Asami's past. Uh, he's like meeting, uh, like her mentor, like her ballet teacher, I think. Uh, the piano guy or whoever the fuck that is. Yeah, exactly. But then you're like seeing later, like how, how, how, how,
[00:19:23] she fucked them all up, uh, why they're like that. Yeah. And how that all happened. And so one of the guys is in the bag, like the, the reveal of when you find out what's in the bag, like God, when the bag moves, yeah. When the bag moves by itself, oh shit. Like it's such a huge, like, like a scary moment. Uh, and then when finally she opens the bag and this like naked guy crawls out and he has no feet and he has like, he's missing three fingers and he's like missing an ear and his tongue's been cut out.
[00:19:50] And she gives him like a dog bowl full of like, uh, vomit, I think. Right. She throws up into the vomit and makes him eat that. And that's what he eats. Nasty man. It's, it's. Yeah. What kind of pervert would make somebody else watch this movie? Um, yeah. And I remember, is there, is there a scene like a crime scene or something where, uh, or maybe he walks past. I can't remember. I think maybe he's investigating Asami's past or something. And there's like a stairwell where he looks like at a door, uh, and he like sees a tongue and fingers and like all this. Oh yeah.
[00:20:20] Body parts on the, cause he's heard there's been a crime in that apartment or something like that. Yeah. Just like, what the fuck? Like, I don't know. Right. You crazy. And then when she starts doing it to him at the end of the movie, she's doing all the same stuff. She's cutting off his feet. Yeah. Like a fully cuts off one of them. And then like kind of half cuts off the other one before his son comes home. And then she starts attacking the son. Uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's nuts, man. It's, uh, it's really intense.
[00:20:44] I remember that like TTT, TTT sound that she, when she's like putting the needles in them or the acupuncture needles or whatever. And she's like, I don't know. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's that sound, which just becomes this like kind of recurring thing that you're hearing over and over again. Yeah. Uh, yeah, no, that's, that's intense. Yeah. No, I can't believe you would make me watch this. Uh, well, no, I, I wanted to watch it, but I can't believe like, you know, as, as you know, uh, I've recently re-entered the dating scene.
[00:21:10] Uh, I couldn't have predicted that a year ago. And I can't, I can't believe you would make me watch this during this time. Oh my God. So you had the, uh, a 4d experience while watching. Yeah. I was like, Oh, this, this is what could happen. Don't produce any films in the near future. Mike is all I'm saying. Or if, or if I do, there'll be real movies. Uh, I'm not going to fake a movie to just meet hundreds of women. So they can audition to be my girlfriend. Correct. Yeah. Which, and that, that whole scene too is fantastic. Like the, uh,
[00:21:39] the montage of them meeting women, uh, like while in the audition process is, uh, is so fun. It's so playful. It's, there's a lot of funny moments. There's a lot of wacky moments at there, but it's also just like, you know, it's very clear. Like the main character is like not really into this. Like he doesn't like this idea. He doesn't really. Yeah. He's not really enjoying this. It was, it was his friend's idea. Who was like, Oh yeah, we can do it. Cause we're big shot producers. Uh, right. Yeah. And he's like, I don't know about this band. It's like, no, no, it's cool. And it's a long scene where you're kind of like watching these, like, you know, women kind of back and forth and it's, you know,
[00:22:09] you're, they're going through like 30 to 50 women just like over and over again. And yeah, it's a, it's a really like fun edit. It's a really like funnily edited sequence. It's fun. Yeah. Yeah. And then I, yeah. And then the moment when Asami walks in and he's like, huh? Like, like, yeah. Finally, he's interested. Right. Um, it's good stuff. The movies, the movies, baby. Uh, any other random scenes and audition that you wanted to, uh, bring up Mike, anything that stands out to you?
[00:22:33] I think I remember, is there like a, um, a sequence where like they sort of go on vacation and they're finally going to like have sex. Right. And, and it's like, yeah, I think that's like sort of where the nightmare stuff starts to happen because that's like, finally he like transgress crosses the line. As far as Asami is concerned. I feel like before that she's still sort of trapping him, testing him and he like agrees to have sex with her. And I think she's like saying that she's a virgin or something like that. If I remember right. And once he's like, I'm in and like gets naked and she's like, well, okay, this is it. You've, you failed the test. Now you must die.
[00:23:04] Um, it's how I remember that. I don't know if that's actually how that goes, but yeah, it's, it's something along those lines. Yeah. Um, also wanted to mention that I do like his son a lot. Uh, I, I think the, uh, the relationship between the father and the son is really nice, uh, for a while. Uh, cause you're, you have, um, you know, this opening scene where his wife dies, like she has cancer and, uh, you know, you have the son kind of come in like as a young kid and he has like something that like, you know, he has like a thing he made for his mom that he brought to the hospital with him and all that kind of stuff. It's really sad. And then you cut to
[00:23:33] seven years later. And he, and the son is being like, man, you got to find a woman. Like you're so sad. You're so sad all the time. And like his son just got a girlfriend. Uh, and she's like coming over to the house every once in a while. And you know, they're, they're, you know, just kind of charming together. They're very fun. Uh, and then when he comes home at the end of the movie, uh, and finds his dad, like pinned down on the floor with all these acupuncture needles and missing his foot.
[00:23:57] Yeah. Uh, and, uh, Asami chases after him and he's the one who ultimately, he kicks Asami down the stairs and it like breaks her neck and kills her. Uh, you know, it's, uh, it's a really like, like man, the son didn't deserve any of this. He was just a good dude. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember like him and his girlfriend are just like a little nerds together or something. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I forget exactly what they were doing, but they were just like, Oh, we're going to like, you know, play magic or something like play magic to gathering or whatever. We bang it together or something. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well that's audition again. I, I really liked it.
[00:24:28] I'm sorry. Yeah. It's a weird movie to talk about. I think, uh, you know, certainly it was in a weird headspace watching it for sure. Um, but, uh, yeah, no audition is, is really terrific. I'm glad I finally crossed off the list and I do own the arrow Blu-ray. So at some point I am going to watch it again. I think I would like it more when I see it a second time. And like, now that I kind of know the beats of the movie, like how it kind of, which, which is how it sometimes often goes for me is when I'm watching something for the first time and I think I know what it's going to be, but I really don't.
[00:24:55] And so I'm sort of trying to figure out where the movie is going. When I watch it the second time, I can kind of just let it, you know, wash over me a little bit.
[00:25:02] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When you know there's like a twist and you're just constantly thinking like, well, what, how does the twist and when does that end?
[00:25:08] Who does what, you know, you can get like taken out of the like story of the movie. Cause you start trying to like, like you said, figure it out first kind of thing.
[00:25:16] Right. Absolutely. All right. Should we move on into our other film, Mike?
[00:25:18] Yes, we shall. All right, let's do it. It's time to talk about Martin Scorsese's The Irishman.
[00:25:30] Hello. Hi, my friend. I got that kid I was talking to you about here.
[00:25:38] I'm going to put him on the phone and let you talk to him, okay?
[00:25:42] Hello? Is that Frank? Yes.
[00:25:46] Hiya, Frank. This is Jimmy Hoffa.
[00:25:48] Glad to meet you. Glad to meet you too, even if it's over the phone.
[00:25:53] Our friend speaks very highly of you. Thank you.
[00:25:57] Only three people in the world have one of these.
[00:26:01] And only one of them is Irish.
[00:26:05] I heard you paint houses.
[00:26:09] No, no, please. No, no, Frank.
[00:26:14] Yes, I do, sir.
[00:26:17] Where are you going?
[00:26:18] I'm going to work.
[00:26:21] Well, you know, there's a situation going on now, Frank.
[00:26:25] Big business and the government, they're trying to pull us down.
[00:26:29] You might be demonstrating a failure to show appreciation.
[00:26:33] I know things they don't know I know.
[00:26:39] You can't miss the big picture.
[00:26:44] Sooner or later...
[00:26:45] Get the gun out of his hand!
[00:26:47] Everybody put here as a date when he's going to go.
[00:26:53] Do you want to be a part of this fight?
[00:26:56] Would you like to be a part of this history?
[00:27:02] Yes, I would.
[00:27:04] Whatever you need me to do, I'm available.
[00:27:11] He likes the thought, don't he?
[00:27:20] All right, that was from the trailer for The Irishman,
[00:27:22] a.k.a. I Heard You Paint Houses.
[00:27:24] When you watch the movie, The Irishman title, never there.
[00:27:27] But the I Heard You Paint Houses is what it's called
[00:27:29] when you're actually watching the film.
[00:27:30] Yeah, there is the final title card is The Irishman.
[00:27:33] Oh, yeah, I think you're right, actually, yes.
[00:27:35] But yeah, the opening title card is I Heard You Paint Houses.
[00:27:39] Yes.
[00:27:39] Yes.
[00:27:39] So, Mike D, I made you watch The Irishman.
[00:27:42] I finally did it.
[00:27:43] You did it.
[00:27:43] Congrats.
[00:27:45] Yeah, so I guess the reason I wanted to make you watch this movie,
[00:27:47] A, this was my number three movie of 2019 when it came out.
[00:27:52] I was a huge, huge fan of The Irishman, and I feel like its reception,
[00:27:56] like it was certainly like it was well-received.
[00:27:58] It got nominated for like 10 Academy Awards and all that kind of stuff.
[00:28:02] But I feel like in terms of like film and Twitter or popular culture or whatever,
[00:28:06] I feel like a lot of people were sort of muted on The Irishman maybe at the time.
[00:28:11] And, you know, there was a lot of talk about the digital effects
[00:28:13] and how they de-aged all the characters and stuff like that.
[00:28:15] And I feel, I always felt like that sort of overshadowed the larger points
[00:28:19] that The Irishman was making and sort of its larger kind of discussion
[00:28:23] on like Scorsese's entire filmography in a weird way.
[00:28:27] And so I wanted to make you watch this movie because you didn't watch it in 2019.
[00:28:29] And it was one of the things where you're like,
[00:28:31] oh, I'm going to get around to it.
[00:28:32] And you never did.
[00:28:33] Yeah.
[00:28:34] And, you know, since then, Scorsese has had another movie come out,
[00:28:38] Killers of the Flower Moon.
[00:28:39] You did watch that one.
[00:28:41] Right.
[00:28:41] And you liked it a lot from what I remember.
[00:28:43] I think it was in your like top 10 of the year, something like that.
[00:28:45] I think so.
[00:28:45] Yeah, that sounds right.
[00:28:46] But I did really like it, even if it wasn't in my top 10.
[00:28:49] I don't remember.
[00:28:50] I was just listening back to the episode and I think it was like your number five or four
[00:28:53] or something like that.
[00:28:54] It was in your 10 somewhere.
[00:28:56] Okay.
[00:28:56] But you still hadn't watched The Irishman.
[00:28:58] So I figured now's the time.
[00:29:00] And I figured if I was going to make you do it,
[00:29:01] it should be around Thanksgiving, which is when it came out five years ago.
[00:29:04] And also it's when you'll have a couple of days off because of Thanksgiving.
[00:29:08] So you would have more time to watch a three and a half hour movie.
[00:29:12] Yeah.
[00:29:12] Yeah.
[00:29:12] I appreciate that.
[00:29:13] Thank you.
[00:29:14] So what'd you think of The Irishman, Mike?
[00:29:16] Yeah.
[00:29:17] So like, you know, sometimes when you hear about a movie and you don't watch it and then you
[00:29:20] watch it and you're like, oh yeah, this is one of the greatest movies ever made.
[00:29:23] And then you're like, well, confirmed, you know?
[00:29:27] Yeah.
[00:29:28] I think we've talked about broadly or just culturally.
[00:29:31] We all are, I think, aware of the Netflix effect of just like, wow, it's there.
[00:29:35] Whatever.
[00:29:36] I'll see it eventually.
[00:29:36] Like whatever.
[00:29:37] Right.
[00:29:37] There's just zero like drive or urgency or like need to watch a thing that is just
[00:29:42] going to languish on Netflix forever.
[00:29:45] Yeah.
[00:29:45] So I just never got around to it basically, which is weird because like, I feel like Roma
[00:29:50] was also a Netflix original, the Alfonso Cuarón movie.
[00:29:52] And I watched that and I loved it.
[00:29:54] And I was like, oh my God, like, holy shit.
[00:29:55] Like, I think that made my top 10 that year too, I think.
[00:29:58] That was the year before, but yeah, it was probably in your top 10.
[00:30:01] Yeah.
[00:30:01] Cause I, yeah, I did really love that movie.
[00:30:03] So I know that for some of these, you know, I don't want to say real filmmakers, but,
[00:30:08] but also, you know, real filmmakers, real filmmakers, um, even when their movies end
[00:30:12] up as a streaming original or something extremely exclusive, they are, they are generally still
[00:30:16] very good.
[00:30:17] So yeah, I don't know what it was about Irishman.
[00:30:19] Probably the three and a half hours was kind of like, it's a daunting task.
[00:30:22] Yeah.
[00:30:22] I'll get to it eventually.
[00:30:24] And then I'm thinking, uh, you know, preemptively thinking like, well, maybe like how, like
[00:30:28] how, well, how many sittings will I watch it in?
[00:30:30] Like I'm already breaking it up in my mind and all that.
[00:30:33] And like, well, that doesn't sound appealing.
[00:30:34] Um, so I'm glad that you did just finally be like, you have to watch it by this day.
[00:30:38] Um, and then, uh, when I sat down to watch it, I just watched it all in one shot, you
[00:30:42] know, other, other than, you know, bathroom breaks and popcorn breaks, uh, which, uh, you
[00:30:46] know, would recreate the theater experience at home.
[00:30:50] But, um, yeah, just incredible.
[00:30:52] I think, um, yeah, I remember when my family or family members and stuff that I talked to at the
[00:30:56] time when they watched it, they had the similar complaints, the like, oh, the de-aging
[00:31:00] looks weird.
[00:31:01] And even though they look young, they move like old men because they are old men.
[00:31:06] And so there's like weird disconnects.
[00:31:07] They made Robert Tinelli's eyes blue and like just weird stuff.
[00:31:10] And it's so long, um, that I was just like, yeah, whatever.
[00:31:13] Like adding it into the, I'll put it off column.
[00:31:16] And I think those things like benefit from the movie being three and a half hours long because
[00:31:21] yeah, they seem maybe off putting at first, but by hour two, you're just like, this is
[00:31:27] what this movie looked like, you know, I didn't even, I stopped noticing it.
[00:31:30] Uh, basically is what I'm saying.
[00:31:32] So on top of that, so, so I got over that pretty quickly, uh, or maybe not quickly, I
[00:31:36] guess, but by the movie won me over right by that on that front.
[00:31:40] Um, I think it's got all the Scorsese juice, baby.
[00:31:44] We got one takes, we got everything, you know, we got, uh, tracking shots, we got everything.
[00:31:48] We got cool.
[00:31:48] We got voiceover just going into really specific details about things you may not need, but
[00:31:52] you're going to hear about.
[00:31:53] But you're going to find out.
[00:31:54] Yeah.
[00:31:54] We got freeze frames with title cards that tell us what happened to these characters.
[00:31:58] Uh, we, that is my, that is my favorite gag in the movie is every, every time you get
[00:32:04] interested in new character, uh, you see like the, how they died and it's always like some
[00:32:08] crazy violent thing.
[00:32:09] Yeah.
[00:32:09] Except for one guy like halfway through who is at where it says beloved by all died in
[00:32:13] 2001.
[00:32:14] So I'm a family in front of natural causes.
[00:32:16] Yeah.
[00:32:17] Which is incredible.
[00:32:19] So that's very fun.
[00:32:21] I, uh, and I do like that, that it's, that's only for all the mobster guys and it does happen
[00:32:25] for Joe Kennedy senior.
[00:32:27] Like nice.
[00:32:28] I got the interesting history lesson around Jimmy Hoffa.
[00:32:31] Cause I think the film even starts or, or sorry.
[00:32:34] States when he's introduced, when he enters the movie, like halfway through the voiceover
[00:32:38] saying like, no, I don't think many people know about Jimmy Hoffa other than that.
[00:32:42] He disappeared.
[00:32:42] Uh, and that's where my knowledge began and ended.
[00:32:45] Um, so it was interesting to learn about that.
[00:32:48] Yeah.
[00:32:48] Um, and the performances are great.
[00:32:50] Joe Pesci.
[00:32:51] Holy shit.
[00:32:52] Yeah.
[00:32:52] Um, man.
[00:32:53] I mean, I think everybody is doing really great, but Joe Pesci is just like so controlled,
[00:32:58] um, throughout the whole movie and just fucking, wow.
[00:33:02] He's so good.
[00:33:02] And that's such a different mode that you would normally associate with Joe Pesci.
[00:33:06] Yeah.
[00:33:06] He's normally, what is it?
[00:33:07] Lethal weapon four or whatever the fuck he's in.
[00:33:09] Um, he's in two, three and four.
[00:33:11] He's in two, three and four.
[00:33:12] All the sequels.
[00:33:12] Oh my God.
[00:33:13] But he's normally like the hothead, uh, who is.
[00:33:16] He's my cousin Vinny.
[00:33:16] Yeah, exactly.
[00:33:17] Good fellas.
[00:33:18] You're like, oh boy, you think I'm funny?
[00:33:19] You think I'm funny like a clown?
[00:33:20] Right.
[00:33:21] Uh, you know, all, all that.
[00:33:22] That's, that's what you associate Joe Pesci with.
[00:33:24] And, uh, he's so quiet and like controlled in this movie.
[00:33:27] Yeah.
[00:33:27] I think that's a great word for it.
[00:33:28] Yeah.
[00:33:28] Just like, holy shit.
[00:33:29] Um, so he's amazing.
[00:33:31] Al Pacino's amazing.
[00:33:32] Uh, Robert De Niro's great.
[00:33:33] Yeah.
[00:33:34] Everybody's really good.
[00:33:35] And yeah, I just, um, I don't know what it was.
[00:33:37] I just never got around to it.
[00:33:38] And I'm glad that I finally have because goddamn.
[00:33:40] And I, I think thematically between Irishman and killers of the flower moon, there's a
[00:33:44] real, like, I don't know how anybody could, you know, like think there's a lack of self
[00:33:48] awareness in his sort of American myth making, uh, his role in the making of like the American
[00:33:56] myth.
[00:33:56] Uh, right.
[00:33:57] I feel like these two movies really in the case of kills a flower moon, like direct
[00:34:01] to camera, address that almost.
[00:34:02] Yes.
[00:34:03] And this movie really reflects on it, on, on the type of guy his earlier movies might
[00:34:09] have glamorized or in part.
[00:34:11] Right.
[00:34:12] Um, sure.
[00:34:13] I mean, that, that's a, a criticism that has like hit him his entire career, right?
[00:34:16] Like kind of the idea that he's like glamorizing like criminal activities or whatever.
[00:34:19] And you get that with like Goodfellas and casino and Wolf of Wall Street and all that
[00:34:23] stuff.
[00:34:24] And I think part of it is because he tended to make the stuff look really fun.
[00:34:27] That's the thing.
[00:34:28] Uh, and those movies are really fun to watch.
[00:34:31] I, I think ultimately they come, they come down on like, yeah, you probably shouldn't
[00:34:35] be in a life prime, you know, like Henry Hill loses everything in Goodfellas and you
[00:34:39] know, uh, Jordan Belfort goes to jail, uh, or, you know, all, all that kind of stuff.
[00:34:43] But, or, uh, you know, I think Wolf of Wall Street, Jordan Belfort only goes to jail for
[00:34:46] like eight months and then cause back on the street or whatever.
[00:34:49] And then they make the movie like meta textually.
[00:34:52] Right.
[00:34:53] And it's, it's very much like, man, what a piece of shit this guy is.
[00:34:56] He's ruining America.
[00:34:57] Like, uh, like they're all very much about that.
[00:35:00] And I think the Irishman and killers, the flower moon are both movies where he's like,
[00:35:03] I'm going to make these as unglamorized as possible.
[00:35:06] Yes.
[00:35:06] Yeah.
[00:35:07] There's even, there's even a, um, like difference in the violence that's depicted.
[00:35:12] Like, like, yeah, everything's very, a lot of his movies are very violent in general.
[00:35:16] Um, but there is like a, like graphic stylization in his earlier movies that is not present in
[00:35:22] killers of the flower moon and the Irishman.
[00:35:24] They are just like realistic depictions of violence that are not glamorous.
[00:35:28] It's like matter of fact, like just people getting shot in the back of the head.
[00:35:31] Like, yeah.
[00:35:32] You know, from, from like a media, like a, like a long shot, just like kind of thing.
[00:35:35] Just like, boom, it's over.
[00:35:36] Uh, blood, like blood splatter is done.
[00:35:38] All right.
[00:35:38] And it's like gross and not fun.
[00:35:40] And I deliberately, so I assume.
[00:35:42] Right.
[00:35:42] Um, so yeah, I think, uh, I think, I think there's a lot of, uh, thematic territory to
[00:35:47] mine in the Irishman that I am not prepared for, but, um, deeper than this, but, uh, yeah,
[00:35:53] it's, it's really good.
[00:35:54] Yeah.
[00:35:54] I mean, it is, it doors, it does feel like Scorsese kind of reflecting on, you know, his
[00:35:59] entire career and, you know, where he is, you know, he's 80 something years old now at
[00:36:02] this point and, you know, kind of reflecting on life.
[00:36:05] And I think that his last couple of movies have been him kind of like reckoning with the
[00:36:09] fact that he is very old and, you know, at some point sooner than later, he is going
[00:36:13] to die and sort of the legacy he leaves behind and, uh, what that means.
[00:36:17] Uh, and I think this movie is ultimately incredibly sad, uh, where, you know, it's, it's sort of
[00:36:22] like you're seeing all this mob violence over the course of three and a half hours and you're
[00:36:26] seeing De Niro betray his like best friend, Jimmy Hoffa played by Pacino.
[00:36:30] Right.
[00:36:30] And, you know, do all these things that are horrendous and he loses his family and he loses
[00:36:34] his friends and everybody that he knew is dead and he's just alive in a nursing home by
[00:36:40] himself.
[00:36:41] Uh, and it's so depressing.
[00:36:43] It's so sad.
[00:36:44] I remember, I, so I saw this movie in a theater when it first came out, started the Roxy.
[00:36:48] It played for like three weeks before it hit Netflix.
[00:36:50] And I remember seeing it and, uh, you know, I was so excited about it.
[00:36:53] I was very grateful to get the chance to see it in the theater and I was expecting something
[00:36:56] like Goodfellas, like Wolf of Wall Street.
[00:36:58] Right.
[00:36:58] And it's really not like that, you know?
[00:37:01] And I remember just walking home, like, like those final moments, like really hit me hard.
[00:37:05] Uh, and just like kind of being like, man, life though.
[00:37:08] Right.
[00:37:08] Like, yeah, it's just crazy.
[00:37:11] What's the song that's playing?
[00:37:13] Is it still in the night or something?
[00:37:14] I forget.
[00:37:15] Uh, I think it plays a few times.
[00:37:16] It's like over the opening and end credits, I think.
[00:37:18] Yeah.
[00:37:18] Yeah.
[00:37:19] Just damn son.
[00:37:20] But yeah, that moment at the end when he asked the priest to like, Oh, can you leave
[00:37:23] the door open a little bit?
[00:37:24] I don't like when it's closed.
[00:37:25] And it's just like, fuck.
[00:37:27] Um, I can't even really express why that's so devastating.
[00:37:30] It's so sad.
[00:37:31] Well, that's the thing that, uh, Jimmy Hoffa used to do when, uh, he was younger.
[00:37:34] And so he kind of took that on as, has his own thing.
[00:37:36] Yeah.
[00:37:37] It's just, uh, just sad, just powerful and sad.
[00:37:40] And yeah, the, the sort of, um, the way Sheeran, I forget his first name, but Robert
[00:37:46] De Niro's character, um, Frank gets like, uh, like slow walks into this life, right?
[00:37:53] He's just a, a meat truck delivery guy.
[00:37:56] Yeah.
[00:37:56] And, uh, he meets Joe Pesci by accident.
[00:38:01] Yeah.
[00:38:01] Yeah.
[00:38:01] Joe Pesci helps him fix his car, fix his broke down truck.
[00:38:04] Yeah.
[00:38:04] Um, but he's, and then like, Oh, whatever.
[00:38:06] He gets introduced to Bobby Cardiola.
[00:38:08] He's great.
[00:38:08] Uh, and, um, what if you, uh, you know, set aside some beef for us kind of thing.
[00:38:13] It's like how it starts.
[00:38:13] And then by the end, he's a hit man and you're like, what the fuck?
[00:38:17] Uh, and, um, yeah, just that, that slow roll roll into that life of crime and just
[00:38:22] becoming a, uh, mafia hit man.
[00:38:25] Right.
[00:38:25] Um, and devastating the way that affects his, what his family and everything.
[00:38:30] Peggy, the daughter, like just always knowing is like one of the most like brutal, devastating
[00:38:35] things.
[00:38:36] Like anytime he goes and commits a crime and he's looking at the newspaper the next day
[00:38:40] and he sees it written up, uh, and he like looks down at the table and his daughter's
[00:38:43] just staring at him.
[00:38:44] Uh, and then surprise Anna Paquin.
[00:38:47] Incredible.
[00:38:47] Incredible.
[00:38:47] Yes.
[00:38:48] She's, uh, she's yeah.
[00:38:49] As an adult, she's Anna Paquin.
[00:38:51] And I remember when this movie came out, there was a lot of discourse, uh, around it on Twitter.
[00:38:55] I thought I remembered that, but I couldn't remember why.
[00:38:57] It was the dumbest discourse of all time.
[00:38:59] Um, I mean, there's been a lot of dumb discourses over, over the years, but this was an especially
[00:39:03] dumb one where it was somebody who was, uh, complaining about the Irishman because
[00:39:06] Anna Paquin only has like a couple of like one line of dialogue in the film.
[00:39:10] Yes.
[00:39:10] Uh, and I think if you watch the Irishman, that's very deliberate.
[00:39:15] That's a, that's a, right.
[00:39:16] That's a, that's very much like, oh yeah, no, she's incredibly quiet and reserved and
[00:39:20] like does not talk to her father at all.
[00:39:22] Right.
[00:39:22] Yes.
[00:39:23] Because like she hates him and hates the things that he does.
[00:39:26] And knows what he does.
[00:39:27] Yeah.
[00:39:27] And so the one time Anna Paquin speaks in the movie, it's after he's killed Jimmy Hoffa
[00:39:32] and he mentions like, oh, I should call his wife.
[00:39:34] And she's like, why haven't you called him yet?
[00:39:36] Right.
[00:39:36] Like why?
[00:39:37] And that's her only line of dialogue.
[00:39:39] Uh, and, but, but she expresses so much just like in these like kind of quiet glances,
[00:39:43] both her and the child actress too.
[00:39:45] Yeah.
[00:39:45] Yeah.
[00:39:45] The, the child version of Peggy is amazing too.
[00:39:48] Um, because yeah, it's all, it's all just expressions and looks and glances, uh, between
[00:39:53] them and just the like only sense of morality in the film with people around him and around
[00:39:59] these guys.
[00:40:00] Everyone is a, is a wise guy is a gangster.
[00:40:02] Yeah.
[00:40:03] And Jimmy Hoffa was the one guy she liked.
[00:40:04] Exactly.
[00:40:05] That's also the thing.
[00:40:06] Yeah.
[00:40:06] Yeah.
[00:40:07] And he even says that, right.
[00:40:08] That she, uh, he was, he wasn't stomping on people's hands.
[00:40:11] He wasn't, uh, doing all the gangster stuff.
[00:40:13] Right.
[00:40:14] He felt, he felt like a legitimate person, like a real, or, you know, somebody she could
[00:40:17] look up to in her life.
[00:40:19] And her dad killed him.
[00:40:20] Um, yeah.
[00:40:22] Dark, dark movie.
[00:40:24] Yes, absolutely.
[00:40:25] But you know, we're talking a lot about how dark it is.
[00:40:27] It's also, I think a very funny movie.
[00:40:29] Oh yeah, absolutely.
[00:40:30] You know, I mean, it's, uh, I think Scorsese does a good job in general with that kind of mixing
[00:40:34] dark subjects with humor and all that stuff.
[00:40:36] But, uh, you know, there's just bits like, uh, I quoted at the beginning of the episode,
[00:40:39] but the bit where Steven Graham shows up for that meeting in Miami and Al Pacino is just
[00:40:42] so pissed off, uh, cause he shows up 15 minutes late and he's wearing shorts.
[00:40:45] Right.
[00:40:46] Uh, is, is so great.
[00:40:47] It's so funny.
[00:40:48] And then that's the Miami incident for the rest of the movie, as if it's like this world
[00:40:51] shattering thing that happened that he was late the one time.
[00:40:55] Yes.
[00:40:55] Um, but I did, yeah, I mean, it, I did like that, that, uh, they tell Frank before he goes
[00:41:00] to meet, uh, Hoffa for the first time, like, do not ever be late.
[00:41:03] That is his one thing.
[00:41:05] He's like, in fact, be early every time.
[00:41:06] Right.
[00:41:06] Uh, and then, yeah, when he, uh, Steven Graham shows up late with the, and they're all,
[00:41:11] and then I love, it's all the like, whoa, hey, bro.
[00:41:13] Like they're all doing the thing.
[00:41:15] It's like, Hey, you got a 15 minutes.
[00:41:17] You got to come for traffic.
[00:41:18] And it's like, no, 10 minutes.
[00:41:19] That is accounting for traffic.
[00:41:20] Yeah.
[00:41:22] And then when, um, when Jimmy violates his rule at the end, uh, you know, he waits longer
[00:41:27] than 15 minutes, but he's never done for anybody before in his life.
[00:41:30] And he waits longer than 15 minutes, um, to his demise, you know?
[00:41:33] Yes.
[00:41:34] Uh, it's good.
[00:41:35] And I love the, towards the end there too, with the one guy who I recognize the actor,
[00:41:39] but I don't really remember what from, but he's the guy that, uh, chokes out the dude
[00:41:43] with the like rope earlier in the movie.
[00:41:45] Uh, and he's like, Frank, you sit in the front and Frank's like, absolutely not.
[00:41:49] You sit in the front.
[00:41:50] Yes.
[00:41:51] Uh, that's Louis cancel me who was actually also in killers.
[00:41:53] The flower moon.
[00:41:54] He's the, okay.
[00:41:55] That yes.
[00:41:55] Yeah.
[00:41:55] Yeah.
[00:41:55] He's the guy in killers who, uh, I think is going to kill his kids, but the lawyer is
[00:41:59] like, well, you just told me you're going to come up and kill your kids.
[00:42:01] Right.
[00:42:02] Trying to get out of our contract by killing his own kids or something.
[00:42:05] Yeah.
[00:42:05] Yes.
[00:42:05] Yeah.
[00:42:05] He plays Sally bugs in this movie.
[00:42:07] And yeah, he also has a great bit, uh, with Jesse Plemons was like, well, you know,
[00:42:10] so you went to the fish, you got a fit, you got a fish from the fish
[00:42:11] market.
[00:42:12] Where'd you get, what kind of fish did you get?
[00:42:13] Like, I don't know what kind of fish I got.
[00:42:16] Jesse Plemons is great in this movie.
[00:42:18] Yeah.
[00:42:18] He's Jimmy Hoffa's kid.
[00:42:19] Uh, yeah.
[00:42:20] And he's, he's terrific.
[00:42:21] I totally forgot he was in this.
[00:42:22] Uh, I totally forgot Ray Romano was in this.
[00:42:25] Oh, he's great.
[00:42:26] He's really good.
[00:42:26] Uh, there's, there's a lot of actors who pop up in this movie who are like, I'm
[00:42:29] glad that Scorsese made like one more Italian American mob movie just to get all these
[00:42:33] guys in one of these movies.
[00:42:35] Like, you know, you got Harvey Keitel, Bobby Cannavale, Stephen Graham, like people who
[00:42:39] were like born to be in a Scorsese mob movie, but were like born too late.
[00:42:44] They got their chance in the Irishman, which is nice.
[00:42:46] Yeah.
[00:42:46] And they're all really good.
[00:42:47] And, uh, yeah, I don't know.
[00:42:49] I just, I loved the, these, like the slow escalation, um, just in terms of the story,
[00:42:54] which I mean, I guess it's based on a real story, right?
[00:42:56] It's a book, uh, like I kind of tell all book or whatever.
[00:42:59] Um, right.
[00:43:00] Which, uh, which I think has been like, you know, it's not, it's, it's sort of disputed.
[00:43:04] It's not, yeah.
[00:43:04] Yeah.
[00:43:05] No, nobody actually knows if he, if Frank Sheeran did kill Jimmy Hoffa or not, or that
[00:43:09] kind of thing.
[00:43:09] Right.
[00:43:10] Right.
[00:43:10] But the escalation from, like we said, it's the stealing beef, it's the laundry stuff
[00:43:15] in Atlantic city, uh, and all that.
[00:43:18] And just like this escalation to like affecting global, uh, you know, national politics.
[00:43:22] Yeah.
[00:43:22] Those shots in Jimmy Hoffa's office when he's telling the hilarious, I finally understand
[00:43:27] the screenshot of the, you dumb motherfuckers thing.
[00:43:30] Uh, where you see him chewing out all of his union bosses for the, for allowing somebody's
[00:43:36] son to sell insurance to their father's union.
[00:43:39] I forget exactly some stupid double dipping criminal thing that they should have known not
[00:43:42] to do.
[00:43:43] And now he's going to jail like as a result, right?
[00:43:45] Because of that.
[00:43:45] Yeah.
[00:43:45] Because Bobby Kennedy's the DA and they've got a bone to pick with Hoffa and all this stuff.
[00:43:49] And then just that cut to the reverse side where you can just see Capitol Hill out the
[00:43:54] window of his, like, he's like across the street from the Capitol.
[00:43:56] And there's like, you're, he's got, uh, like just the, the importance of those buildings
[00:44:02] and how close he is to the literal room where they make laws.
[00:44:07] Um, when, when Frank started with the beef truck, you know?
[00:44:10] Yeah.
[00:44:11] The, the bit where they're talking about, um, how they got JFK elected, uh, and they're,
[00:44:15] they're like talking about like how the, how the mob was involved and they did all these
[00:44:18] things and help JFK get elected.
[00:44:20] And then as soon as he did, uh, Robert Kennedy started, um, you know, kind of cracking down
[00:44:24] on mobsters, all that stuff.
[00:44:25] And it's like, Hey, what the hell, man?
[00:44:26] We just, we just got your brother elected.
[00:44:28] And then when JFK gets shot and somebody like, like the reporters are asking Jimmy Hoffa,
[00:44:33] like, Oh, what, what do you think?
[00:44:34] Like, what do you think of the Kennedy tragedy?
[00:44:37] Uh, and his response is, I guess Bobby Kennedy is just another lawyer now.
[00:44:40] Right.
[00:44:40] And he goes back inside and makes them put the flag at full height.
[00:44:45] Oh yeah.
[00:44:45] Yes.
[00:44:46] Uh, cause everybody else is flying the flag at half mass and he makes them put it full.
[00:44:50] Full.
[00:44:50] Yeah.
[00:44:51] And then they cut to the, the DC skyline and it's just every other building obviously is
[00:44:54] at half mass except for his, uh, except for the teamster building.
[00:44:59] Um, and, uh, yeah, they ask like, are you going to attend the funeral?
[00:45:02] And he's like, well, I wasn't invited.
[00:45:03] And they're like, sir, it's a public.
[00:45:07] Very good.
[00:45:08] Yeah.
[00:45:09] Oh man.
[00:45:09] Yeah.
[00:45:09] I mean, there's, and there's so many bits in the movie.
[00:45:11] I mean, obviously it's three and a half hours long.
[00:45:13] So there's a lot of bits, but like, you know, just small.
[00:45:15] Small things like that.
[00:45:15] I really love.
[00:45:16] Like I, I really love, I mean, I'm just a big fan of when somebody in a Scorsese movie
[00:45:19] talks to the camera and tells you about what's going on.
[00:45:22] Yeah.
[00:45:22] Yeah.
[00:45:22] Yeah.
[00:45:22] You know, that's great.
[00:45:23] And so, and so much of the movie is like just De Niro in the nursing home kind of talent,
[00:45:27] like narrating what was happening.
[00:45:28] Yeah.
[00:45:29] Um, but you know, he would just go into detail about like, ah, there's this place who sells
[00:45:32] hot dogs down by the pier and they're the best hot dogs in town because they,
[00:45:35] they douse them in beer before they do the thing.
[00:45:37] And there's just so many like small details like that.
[00:45:40] The movie kind of goes into that just makes it feel like, oh, he's like recounting literally
[00:45:43] his whole life.
[00:45:44] Right.
[00:45:44] Uh, you know, and I think the length like, you know, plays into that a little bit because
[00:45:47] it's three and a half hours.
[00:45:48] You really feel like you've watched the entirety of Frank Sheeran's life in the, in this movie.
[00:45:53] Yes.
[00:45:53] Yeah.
[00:45:54] Him.
[00:45:54] Um, I think like the de-aging stuff doesn't, doesn't feel like egregious.
[00:45:59] I don't know what the difference is.
[00:46:00] Like, you know, when you look at Indiana Jones and the dial of destiny, when it's like,
[00:46:04] oh, this is 30 year old Harrison for whatever, like in the beginning of that.
[00:46:08] And then however old he is 80, whatever it is, uh, in the present day part of that
[00:46:13] movie.
[00:46:13] This, I feel like Frank Sheeran, when we first see him is not supposed to be a young
[00:46:18] kid on his first thing.
[00:46:20] Like he kind of looks like, I don't know, he's 45, like, or whatever.
[00:46:22] Like, yeah.
[00:46:22] I mean, that's, I think the smart thing.
[00:46:24] It's not trying to do like baby face taxi driver to Nero.
[00:46:27] Yes.
[00:46:27] Exactly.
[00:46:28] Yeah.
[00:46:28] Like it's kind of de-aging him back to like a good fellas era, maybe, maybe even like
[00:46:32] a little after good fellas.
[00:46:34] And so when, when they're de-aging all these guys, like they're de-aging them.
[00:46:37] So when they're like in their forties or fifties, right?
[00:46:39] Exactly.
[00:46:39] I think the characters that they're playing are technically supposed to be younger or
[00:46:43] whatever, but I think it works.
[00:46:45] I think this is good.
[00:46:46] Like this, that works for me.
[00:46:47] Yeah.
[00:46:47] Um, you know, and I think there was like a lot of talk about the de-aging when it came
[00:46:50] out because it was like, oh, well, you know, obviously it was fake, but like, yeah, obviously
[00:46:54] it's fake because it's digital de-aging, but I think it does look good and looks better than
[00:46:57] a lot of other movies.
[00:46:58] Yeah.
[00:46:59] I do think that one scene when he beats up the supermarket or the market guy does look
[00:47:06] bad.
[00:47:06] Sure.
[00:47:06] I mean, you could see, you could tell like, yeah, it's De Niro kicking a guy and it's,
[00:47:09] you know, it's, he's, De Niro's 80 years old.
[00:47:11] So exactly.
[00:47:12] Right.
[00:47:12] But I, that does start with him throwing, throwing him through the glass door and right.
[00:47:17] That does rock.
[00:47:19] And it is also 30 seconds out of three and a half hours.
[00:47:23] So like, yeah, get over it.
[00:47:25] But I did notice that it was like, okay, this is, this one's pretty rough, but otherwise
[00:47:28] I think the movie does pull it off pretty well.
[00:47:31] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:47:32] Any other random things you wanted to bring up in the Irish from Mike, any random bits that
[00:47:35] you want to talk about?
[00:47:36] I do think that there's one, there's one montage sequence that is like goes to how funny
[00:47:42] this movie is, I think, which is when it's like in the back half, back last quarter or
[00:47:49] whatever, leading up to the awards ceremony that Hoffa's at.
[00:47:52] And he sort of gets his final warning from Russ and is like, it is what it is or whatever
[00:47:55] the whole code word thing they use is.
[00:47:57] It's what it is.
[00:47:58] Yeah.
[00:47:58] It's what it is.
[00:47:58] Before that, when it's the kind of rising tension of that moment where it's Frank going
[00:48:04] to Russ and, and the other mob guys.
[00:48:07] And then we're like, somebody should tell half that Hoffa guy that we think this.
[00:48:12] And then it's Frank telling Jimmy Hoffa and Hoffa be like, well, somebody should tell
[00:48:15] those guys.
[00:48:16] And then it's Frank telling the mobster guy.
[00:48:17] And it's just this long, like extended montage of like, what just high school petty bullshit
[00:48:23] this, like it is just, it is just squabbling and, uh, you know, just inconsequential slights
[00:48:30] that they're taking at each other that eventually lead to them killing him because nobody would
[00:48:34] just back down or meet in person and have a discussion.
[00:48:37] It's always through Frank who the movie does go through great lengths to show you is like
[00:48:41] not a good communicator.
[00:48:42] He stutters a lot.
[00:48:43] He does well, you know, I need like double talks and all this stuff and repeats himself.
[00:48:47] And, and, uh, yeah, there's just the, the game of telephone that, that ends up in
[00:48:51] Jimmy Hoffa's death.
[00:48:53] It's like, Jesus fucking Christ.
[00:48:54] Um, but it's very funny cause they're all like, you know, it's, it's the, the Scorsese
[00:48:59] juice of the editing and all that stuff.
[00:49:00] And, uh, yeah.
[00:49:02] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:49:02] And Steven, Steven Graham, I think also specifically is like just really funny in the movie.
[00:49:06] I love that guy.
[00:49:07] Yeah.
[00:49:07] Yeah.
[00:49:07] Where he just like, he's constantly at odds with Jimmy Hoffa and, uh, the bit where
[00:49:10] they're both in prison, uh, and Jimmy Hoffa has like eaten his ice cream and he's
[00:49:14] like, Hey, so, uh, you know, what's going on with my pension?
[00:49:17] And it's like, well, you lost it.
[00:49:18] Like, what do you, what do you want me to do?
[00:49:19] Yeah.
[00:49:20] You're in here for exertion.
[00:49:21] I'm in here for fraud.
[00:49:22] Those are different things.
[00:49:24] So I get to keep my money.
[00:49:25] You don't get to keep you.
[00:49:26] Yeah.
[00:49:28] And it just ends in the fight, which also, that is very funny.
[00:49:31] Anytime there's a fight, it's like, Oh yeah, that's definitely Al Pacino.
[00:49:36] This guy, uh, just cut to this person whose face we definitely can't show.
[00:49:40] Um, yes.
[00:49:41] But, uh, yeah, no, I thought, I thought that was all very funny.
[00:49:43] Yeah.
[00:49:44] Also crazy.
[00:49:44] I mean, this is the first time Scorsese and Pacino ever worked together, which
[00:49:47] that feels crazy.
[00:49:48] Cosmically that's wrong.
[00:49:50] Right.
[00:49:50] That feels insane.
[00:49:51] Like they were obviously circling the same, like they, they were in the same circles for
[00:49:54] many, many years.
[00:49:56] Like Pacino, of course, in the Godfather, one of the most famous mob movies.
[00:49:59] Yeah.
[00:49:59] And yeah, you know, this is like his eighth movie with De Niro or something like that.
[00:50:03] It's like his fourth movie with Joe Pesci.
[00:50:05] He brings back Harvey Keitel, uh, all that stuff.
[00:50:07] But, uh, yeah, when you hear like, Oh, Al Pacino and Martin Scorsese, they must've made
[00:50:11] something together at some point.
[00:50:12] They did not.
[00:50:13] It was the Irishman.
[00:50:14] That's their movie together.
[00:50:15] Which is nuts.
[00:50:16] Yeah.
[00:50:17] And he's, he's so good too.
[00:50:18] Yeah.
[00:50:18] He's, he's fantastic at this movie.
[00:50:20] Uh, he's, he's really terrific.
[00:50:21] All right.
[00:50:22] Anything else about the Irishman, Mike, before we wrap this up?
[00:50:24] No, I think that's, uh, that's really it.
[00:50:25] Uh, before we're just listing all three and a half hours of the scenes.
[00:50:28] Yeah.
[00:50:30] Chapter one.
[00:50:31] Uh, I heard you paint houses.
[00:50:33] Uh, I mean, the title card goes so fucking hard.
[00:50:36] Oh yeah, it does.
[00:50:37] The, I heard you paint houses, which I love that, that, um, before I guess last thing we're
[00:50:41] talking about when it's the, the, the kind of all knowing, you know, I always wanted to
[00:50:45] be a wise guy.
[00:50:46] I'm kind of a voiceover from, uh, Robert De Niro saying that, you know, there was a time
[00:50:51] when I thought that house painters, uh, actually painted houses and then it's just the cut to
[00:50:56] somebody getting shot in the head and their blood splattering all over the wall.
[00:50:59] Like it's been painted in blood.
[00:51:01] Um, and then the title card of like, I heard you paint.
[00:51:04] I like the, this, this film is, should be played loud.
[00:51:07] Uh, yes.
[00:51:08] Like in, uh, the last waltz.
[00:51:10] Um, you know, I, I, one word at a time, I heard you paint houses.
[00:51:13] And then an hour and a half later when he talks to Jimmy Hoffa on the phone for the first
[00:51:17] time, the first thing he says is I've heard, I heard you paint houses.
[00:51:20] I'm like, Oh, Hoffa knows, you know, he knows what's going on.
[00:51:22] He needs the Bob bustle.
[00:51:23] Yeah.
[00:51:24] Themes.
[00:51:25] Yes, absolutely.
[00:51:25] Love those themes.
[00:51:26] Gotta have themes in a movie.
[00:51:28] Love a theme.
[00:51:29] Uh, all right.
[00:51:30] Well, I think that's going to wrap things up for this week, Mike.
[00:51:32] Yes.
[00:51:33] I think, what, what do you think the, uh, the, the, if you had to make a connective tissue
[00:51:38] claim between audition and Irishman other than, I think bleakness.
[00:51:42] Sure.
[00:51:43] Bleakness.
[00:51:44] I think, um, men who are in over their heads, let's say.
[00:51:47] Yeah.
[00:51:48] Yeah.
[00:51:48] Get into something for the wrong reasons.
[00:51:50] Yes.
[00:51:50] And, and, and meet a violent end.
[00:51:52] Yeah.
[00:51:53] Yeah.
[00:51:53] There we go.
[00:51:54] Nice.
[00:51:54] Good job.
[00:51:55] Um, hashtag analysis.
[00:51:56] Yeah.
[00:51:57] Actually, Anna Paquin grows up to be a, uh, a Sami from audition.
[00:52:02] I think she would have grounds too.
[00:52:03] I think so too.
[00:52:04] I think you're right.
[00:52:06] Uh, all right.
[00:52:07] Mike D, where can we find you online this week?
[00:52:09] You can find me at MD film blog on Twitter and letterboxd and blue sky.
[00:52:13] Um, and if you want to find the show on blue sky, we're, uh, at Mike and Mike pods.
[00:52:17] Yeah.
[00:52:18] We got it.
[00:52:18] We got an account on there now.
[00:52:19] And if you would like to donate, you can do that on our coffee page, which is coffee.com
[00:52:24] slash Mike and Mike pods, where you can donate $50 and pick a topic of an episode.
[00:52:28] We'll talk about whatever you want, 50 bucks on our coffee page.
[00:52:31] And if you want merch, we have merch available on our red bubble, which is Mike and Mike pods
[00:52:34] dot red bubble.com.
[00:52:35] That's right.
[00:52:36] You can find me online at Emma Smith film blog on Twitter, Mike Smith film on letterboxd
[00:52:39] and radio Mike sandwich and Instagram.
[00:52:41] Thank you so much for listening to Mike.
[00:52:42] My go to the movies.
[00:52:43] I'm Mike Smith.
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[00:53:00] movies.
[00:53:01] And that's going to be the end of this week's episode of Mike.
[00:53:03] My go to the movies.
[00:53:03] We will see you on the other side.
[00:53:05] We will see you on the other side.